Why are conservatives clueless about our Constitution?

Our founders created a form of governent that was built on the assumption that there would be compromise. Congressmen and Senators must compromise with each other to craft a bill and get it passed....
I will give you this if you will give me that
This is a fundamentally false assumption.

The truth is, the founders designed the Constitution so that no laws would be passed unless three different groups, with three different sets of interests and loyalties, all agreed that it was needed. If even one group didn't want it, it was discarded.

The three groups were:

1.) Citizen-legislators who were loyal to their communities, and who would serve only briefly before going back to their real lives (House);
2.) Professional politicians appointed by their states whose loyalties were to see that states maintained power and the Federal government remained limited (Senate);
3.) A citizen of high character and integrity who had no legislative power but could stop laws he thought were wrong or unnecessary (President).

The reason the founders designed it that way, was because they assumed that free men pretty much didn't need laws to live and prosper. Only laws that were obvious (laws forbidding murder, assault, fraud, theft etc.; laws mandating standards for measurement, money etc.) would be passed. In all other matters, men were free to do what they wanted, and it was up to them to figure out how best to prosper and provide for themselves, their families, and their communities, as long as they didn't venture into the realm of those obvious laws.

The basic assumption the Founders made, was that laws were necessary evils that took away freedom and inhibited people from using their better judgment; and that only laws that EVERYONE thought were necessary, should be passed. Which were relatively few.
The idea of compromise, goes directly AGAINST that basic assumption, and in fact is destructive. It causes people to make laws that some of them disagree with: Laws the founders knew should NOT be imposed upon a free people.

The founders deliberately set up a government that had great difficulty in passing laws. If one group didn't like the law, it was toast.

And that's a good thing.

Only people who are willing to ignore the bad effects of laws (they override the better judgment of the people who are there on the spot and working for their families' and communities' own good), could possibly think that the kind of compromise the OP mentions is desirable. They are our chronic big-government addicts, who believe that a remote, detached, bureaucratic government can somehow make better decisions that the people directly involved who must live with the consequences of those decisions.

The obvious laws I described, produce far more benefit than harm. No compromise is needed to see that they should be passed.

Laws that require compromise, usually do more harm than good, and should NOT be passed. That's why the Founders designed such a cranky, cantankerous government,that has three ways to stop a law but only one way to pass it.

If a law is proposed that most of an entire group of legislators think are bad, we are probably better off without it.

This, of course, flies in the face of the big-govt addicts who think government is wiser than free citizens and more and more restrictions are good. They are wrong on both counts.

The "you vote for my law even if you don't like it, and I will vote for yours later even if I don't like that" attitude, is exactly what the founders wanted to avoid. And for good reason.
 
So explain why Obama said he did not need Republicans in 2009 and 2010? Explain why Reid has refused to even send to committee How many bills from the House? Who isn't compromising again? Explain why Obama sabotaged the talks between the House and senate over the budget a couple years ago?

I'll pose the same question to you

Republican bills do not have 60 votes to end cloture. If Reid sends Republican bills to a vote, do you support the COMPROMISE of sending Democratic bills for a vote?
Reid did NOT EVEN send the bills to committee, he shit canned there was no vote possible. What part of that do you not grasp? There was no chance for a vote as Reid refused to even send them to committee.

Swing and a miss

Why can't you answer a simple question?

Republican bills do not have 60 votes to end cloture. If Reid sends Republican bills to a vote, do you support the COMPROMISE of sending Democratic bills for a vote
Look you RETARD THE REPUBLICAN BILLS NEVER LEFT REIDS IN BASKET EXCEPT TO GO TO THE TRASH, THEY WERE NOT EVEN SENT TO COMMITTEE SO THERE NEVER COULD BE A VOTE. What part of that escapes your pea brain? Reid sent the bills to the trash can he never SUBMITTED them to the Senate at all.

The one that swung and missed is you you fucking idiot.

Swing and a Miss...STRIKE TWO!

Committee? I have already offered bring them to the floor for debate and bring up for a vote

If Reid does that.....Do you support allowing the same for Democratic supported bills in the Senate?

Why is it like pulling teeth to get you guys to COMPROMISE?

First- Reid has to send them to certain committees.
Bills passed by the House and the Senate must be sent to their respective committee's, then passed by the certain committee's before they can be brought up on the Senate or House Floor to be debated and then voted on.
Senator Reid has not allowed the house bills to even go to any of the committee's so they can't be voted on period.
 
I'll pose the same question to you

Republican bills do not have 60 votes to end cloture. If Reid sends Republican bills to a vote, do you support the COMPROMISE of sending Democratic bills for a vote?
Reid did NOT EVEN send the bills to committee, he shit canned there was no vote possible. What part of that do you not grasp? There was no chance for a vote as Reid refused to even send them to committee.

Swing and a miss

Why can't you answer a simple question?

Republican bills do not have 60 votes to end cloture. If Reid sends Republican bills to a vote, do you support the COMPROMISE of sending Democratic bills for a vote
Look you RETARD THE REPUBLICAN BILLS NEVER LEFT REIDS IN BASKET EXCEPT TO GO TO THE TRASH, THEY WERE NOT EVEN SENT TO COMMITTEE SO THERE NEVER COULD BE A VOTE. What part of that escapes your pea brain? Reid sent the bills to the trash can he never SUBMITTED them to the Senate at all.

The one that swung and missed is you you fucking idiot.

Swing and a Miss...STRIKE TWO!

Committee? I have already offered bring them to the floor for debate and bring up for a vote

If Reid does that.....Do you support allowing the same for Democratic supported bills in the Senate?

Why is it like pulling teeth to get you guys to COMPROMISE?

First- Reid has to send them to certain committees.
Bills passed by the House and the Senate must be sent to their respective committee's, then passed by the certain committee's before they can be brought up on the Senate or House Floor to be debated and then voted on.
Senator Reid has not allowed the house bills to even go to any of the committee's so they can't be voted on period.
RW is ignoring that little fact.
 
Reid did NOT EVEN send the bills to committee, he shit canned there was no vote possible. What part of that do you not grasp? There was no chance for a vote as Reid refused to even send them to committee.

Swing and a miss

Why can't you answer a simple question?

Republican bills do not have 60 votes to end cloture. If Reid sends Republican bills to a vote, do you support the COMPROMISE of sending Democratic bills for a vote
Look you RETARD THE REPUBLICAN BILLS NEVER LEFT REIDS IN BASKET EXCEPT TO GO TO THE TRASH, THEY WERE NOT EVEN SENT TO COMMITTEE SO THERE NEVER COULD BE A VOTE. What part of that escapes your pea brain? Reid sent the bills to the trash can he never SUBMITTED them to the Senate at all.

The one that swung and missed is you you fucking idiot.

Swing and a Miss...STRIKE TWO!

Committee? I have already offered bring them to the floor for debate and bring up for a vote

If Reid does that.....Do you support allowing the same for Democratic supported bills in the Senate?

Why is it like pulling teeth to get you guys to COMPROMISE?

First- Reid has to send them to certain committees.
Bills passed by the House and the Senate must be sent to their respective committee's, then passed by the certain committee's before they can be brought up on the Senate or House Floor to be debated and then voted on.
Senator Reid has not allowed the house bills to even go to any of the committee's so they can't be voted on period.
RW is ignoring that little fact.

I don't think RW is ignoring it. I don't think RW knows about how bills are passed just like many Americans don't. That's why they did that little thing on how bills are passed on school house rock in order to teach the kids. Notice how that didn't last very long either.
 
Conservatives wrap themselves in the Constitution and act like they are the only ones concerned with the founders principles in crafting this great document

The key component of our Constitution that Conservatives have declared war on is the idea of compromise. Our founders created a form of governent that was built on the assumption that there would be compromise. Congressmen and Senators must compromise with each other to craft a bill and get it passed....

I will give you this if you will give me that

That is how our government has functioned for hundreds of years. Instead, Conservatives have instituted a policy of....If I don't get my way, nothing will get done

That attitude is an insult to our founders who formed our very government out of compromise
You mean like Harry Reid refusing to bring up bills passed by a Republican led House

Where's your condemnation of his refusal to compromise?

And compromise is not necessary or even hinted at in the Constitution.

There are specific requirements for bills to pass and or be repealed. In come cases it's a simple majority in others it's a 2\3 majority.

No way our form of Government functions without compromise

Have you missed the last five years?
Seems to me grid lock is good when it comes to government. the less they do the less they can fuck things up.

And here's a little info on your filibusters

Four Pinocchios for Obama 8217 s claim that Republicans have 8216 filibustered about 500 pieces of legislation 8217 - The Washington Post

Yea...right

Obama is assuming every cloture motion can be counted as a filibuster. Political scientist Sarah Binder of the Brookings Institution, in 2002 co-wrote a paper that concluded there was 94 percent correlation between cloture motions and documented filibusters between 1917 and 1996
What about the last 6 years?

Seems to me 1996 is a little too far in the past to support your assertions.
 
Conservatives wrap themselves in the Constitution and act like they are the only ones concerned with the founders principles in crafting this great document

The key component of our Constitution that Conservatives have declared war on is the idea of compromise. Our founders created a form of governent that was built on the assumption that there would be compromise. Congressmen and Senators must compromise with each other to craft a bill and get it passed....

I will give you this if you will give me that

That is how our government has functioned for hundreds of years. Instead, Conservatives have instituted a policy of....If I don't get my way, nothing will get done

That attitude is an insult to our founders who formed our very government out of compromise
You mean like Harry Reid refusing to bring up bills passed by a Republican led House

Where's your condemnation of his refusal to compromise?

Lets see if I can strike out the side

Will Republicans support ending their filibuster of Democratic bills if Reid allows their bills to come to a vote?
Simple compromise...Yes or No?
WHen was the last republican filibuster?

Still waiting.....simple question

Will Republicans support ending their filibuster of Democratic bills if Reid allows their bills to come to a vote?

Don't hide behind filibuster/cloture games
You willing to compromise or not?
Simple compromise...Yes or No?
How the fuck would I know what the republicans would do?

Do you know?

And as I said before I am more than happy with government gridlock.

It seems to me that's how the system was designed so as to at least attempt to keep the corrupt politicians and parties in check
 
Conservatives wrap themselves in the Constitution and act like they are the only ones concerned with the founders principles in crafting this great document

The key component of our Constitution that Conservatives have declared war on is the idea of compromise. Our founders created a form of governent that was built on the assumption that there would be compromise. Congressmen and Senators must compromise with each other to craft a bill and get it passed....

I will give you this if you will give me that

That is how our government has functioned for hundreds of years. Instead, Conservatives have instituted a policy of....If I don't get my way, nothing will get done

That attitude is an insult to our founders who formed our very government out of compromise

Conservatives go straight to the Bill of Rights and stop reading once they've read the 2nd Amendment.
 
RW is ignoring that little fact.
But he's inventing lots of new "facts" to make up for it.

The idea that legislators are supposed to "compromise" by voting for bills they think shouldn't pass, is the purest horsepuckey.

Sure, the govt has been doing that for years.

And that's one of the major reasons things have been going downhill, with regulations exploding for decades and govt gaining (and abusing) so much power that it can cause major recessions like the one that started in 2008.

Our govt wasn't designed to "compromise" like that.

It was designed to NOT PASS LAWS except for the ones that lots of different people agreed on.

See post #161.
 
I'll pose the same question to you

Republican bills do not have 60 votes to end cloture. If Reid sends Republican bills to a vote, do you support the COMPROMISE of sending Democratic bills for a vote?
Reid did NOT EVEN send the bills to committee, he shit canned there was no vote possible. What part of that do you not grasp? There was no chance for a vote as Reid refused to even send them to committee.

Swing and a miss

Why can't you answer a simple question?

Republican bills do not have 60 votes to end cloture. If Reid sends Republican bills to a vote, do you support the COMPROMISE of sending Democratic bills for a vote
Look you RETARD THE REPUBLICAN BILLS NEVER LEFT REIDS IN BASKET EXCEPT TO GO TO THE TRASH, THEY WERE NOT EVEN SENT TO COMMITTEE SO THERE NEVER COULD BE A VOTE. What part of that escapes your pea brain? Reid sent the bills to the trash can he never SUBMITTED them to the Senate at all.

The one that swung and missed is you you fucking idiot.

Swing and a Miss...STRIKE TWO!

Committee? I have already offered bring them to the floor for debate and bring up for a vote

If Reid does that.....Do you support allowing the same for Democratic supported bills in the Senate?

Why is it like pulling teeth to get you guys to COMPROMISE?

First- Reid has to send them to certain committees.
Bills passed by the House and the Senate must be sent to their respective committee's, then passed by the certain committee's before they can be brought up on the Senate or House Floor to be debated and then voted on.
Senator Reid has not allowed the house bills to even go to any of the committee's so they can't be voted on period.

Why is it difficult for you to answer a simple question?

Hell with committees, Hell with debate

If Reid allowed those bills to go for a VOTE.....would Republicans agree to allow Democrat bills to go for a vote without 60 vote cloture?

Yes or No?
 
Reid did NOT EVEN send the bills to committee, he shit canned there was no vote possible. What part of that do you not grasp? There was no chance for a vote as Reid refused to even send them to committee.

Swing and a miss

Why can't you answer a simple question?

Republican bills do not have 60 votes to end cloture. If Reid sends Republican bills to a vote, do you support the COMPROMISE of sending Democratic bills for a vote
Look you RETARD THE REPUBLICAN BILLS NEVER LEFT REIDS IN BASKET EXCEPT TO GO TO THE TRASH, THEY WERE NOT EVEN SENT TO COMMITTEE SO THERE NEVER COULD BE A VOTE. What part of that escapes your pea brain? Reid sent the bills to the trash can he never SUBMITTED them to the Senate at all.

The one that swung and missed is you you fucking idiot.

Swing and a Miss...STRIKE TWO!

Committee? I have already offered bring them to the floor for debate and bring up for a vote

If Reid does that.....Do you support allowing the same for Democratic supported bills in the Senate?

Why is it like pulling teeth to get you guys to COMPROMISE?

First- Reid has to send them to certain committees.
Bills passed by the House and the Senate must be sent to their respective committee's, then passed by the certain committee's before they can be brought up on the Senate or House Floor to be debated and then voted on.
Senator Reid has not allowed the house bills to even go to any of the committee's so they can't be voted on period.

Why is it difficult for you to answer a simple question?

Hell with committees, Hell with debate

If Reid allowed those bills to go for a VOTE.....would Republicans agree to allow Democrat bills to go for a vote without 60 vote cloture?

Yes or No?
I'll ask again.

Now it's a simple question

How the fuck can any of us know what the republicans will do?
 
Conservatives wrap themselves in the Constitution and act like they are the only ones concerned with the founders principles in crafting this great document

The key component of our Constitution that Conservatives have declared war on is the idea of compromise. Our founders created a form of governent that was built on the assumption that there would be compromise. Congressmen and Senators must compromise with each other to craft a bill and get it passed....

I will give you this if you will give me that

That is how our government has functioned for hundreds of years. Instead, Conservatives have instituted a policy of....If I don't get my way, nothing will get done

That attitude is an insult to our founders who formed our very government out of compromise
You mean like Harry Reid refusing to bring up bills passed by a Republican led House

Where's your condemnation of his refusal to compromise?

Lets see if I can strike out the side

Will Republicans support ending their filibuster of Democratic bills if Reid allows their bills to come to a vote?
Simple compromise...Yes or No?
WHen was the last republican filibuster?

Still waiting.....simple question

Will Republicans support ending their filibuster of Democratic bills if Reid allows their bills to come to a vote?

Don't hide behind filibuster/cloture games
You willing to compromise or not?
Simple compromise...Yes or No?
How the fuck would I know what the republicans would do?

Do you know?

And as I said before I am more than happy with government gridlock.

It seems to me that's how the system was designed so as to at least attempt to keep the corrupt politicians and parties in check


Here we have an honest man

Admitting that conservatives want nothing to do with compromise....they want Gridlock

Anyone else willing to admit?
 
Swing and a miss

Why can't you answer a simple question?

Republican bills do not have 60 votes to end cloture. If Reid sends Republican bills to a vote, do you support the COMPROMISE of sending Democratic bills for a vote
Look you RETARD THE REPUBLICAN BILLS NEVER LEFT REIDS IN BASKET EXCEPT TO GO TO THE TRASH, THEY WERE NOT EVEN SENT TO COMMITTEE SO THERE NEVER COULD BE A VOTE. What part of that escapes your pea brain? Reid sent the bills to the trash can he never SUBMITTED them to the Senate at all.

The one that swung and missed is you you fucking idiot.

Swing and a Miss...STRIKE TWO!

Committee? I have already offered bring them to the floor for debate and bring up for a vote

If Reid does that.....Do you support allowing the same for Democratic supported bills in the Senate?

Why is it like pulling teeth to get you guys to COMPROMISE?

First- Reid has to send them to certain committees.
Bills passed by the House and the Senate must be sent to their respective committee's, then passed by the certain committee's before they can be brought up on the Senate or House Floor to be debated and then voted on.
Senator Reid has not allowed the house bills to even go to any of the committee's so they can't be voted on period.

Why is it difficult for you to answer a simple question?

Hell with committees, Hell with debate

If Reid allowed those bills to go for a VOTE.....would Republicans agree to allow Democrat bills to go for a vote without 60 vote cloture?

Yes or No?
I'll ask again.

Now it's a simple question

How the fuck can any of us know what the republicans will do?

Would YOU?
 
You mean like Harry Reid refusing to bring up bills passed by a Republican led House

Where's your condemnation of his refusal to compromise?

Lets see if I can strike out the side

Will Republicans support ending their filibuster of Democratic bills if Reid allows their bills to come to a vote?
Simple compromise...Yes or No?
WHen was the last republican filibuster?

Still waiting.....simple question

Will Republicans support ending their filibuster of Democratic bills if Reid allows their bills to come to a vote?

Don't hide behind filibuster/cloture games
You willing to compromise or not?
Simple compromise...Yes or No?
How the fuck would I know what the republicans would do?

Do you know?

And as I said before I am more than happy with government gridlock.

It seems to me that's how the system was designed so as to at least attempt to keep the corrupt politicians and parties in check


Here we have an honest man

Admitting that conservatives want nothing to do with compromise....they want Gridlock

Anyone else willing to admit?
Gridlock is a natural result of the way the constitution was designed.

If you can't see that you're blind.
 
Look you RETARD THE REPUBLICAN BILLS NEVER LEFT REIDS IN BASKET EXCEPT TO GO TO THE TRASH, THEY WERE NOT EVEN SENT TO COMMITTEE SO THERE NEVER COULD BE A VOTE. What part of that escapes your pea brain? Reid sent the bills to the trash can he never SUBMITTED them to the Senate at all.

The one that swung and missed is you you fucking idiot.

Swing and a Miss...STRIKE TWO!

Committee? I have already offered bring them to the floor for debate and bring up for a vote

If Reid does that.....Do you support allowing the same for Democratic supported bills in the Senate?

Why is it like pulling teeth to get you guys to COMPROMISE?

First- Reid has to send them to certain committees.
Bills passed by the House and the Senate must be sent to their respective committee's, then passed by the certain committee's before they can be brought up on the Senate or House Floor to be debated and then voted on.
Senator Reid has not allowed the house bills to even go to any of the committee's so they can't be voted on period.

Why is it difficult for you to answer a simple question?

Hell with committees, Hell with debate

If Reid allowed those bills to go for a VOTE.....would Republicans agree to allow Democrat bills to go for a vote without 60 vote cloture?

Yes or No?
I'll ask again.

Now it's a simple question

How the fuck can any of us know what the republicans will do?

Would YOU?
WOuld I what?
 
Lets see if I can strike out the side

Will Republicans support ending their filibuster of Democratic bills if Reid allows their bills to come to a vote?
Simple compromise...Yes or No?
WHen was the last republican filibuster?

Still waiting.....simple question

Will Republicans support ending their filibuster of Democratic bills if Reid allows their bills to come to a vote?

Don't hide behind filibuster/cloture games
You willing to compromise or not?
Simple compromise...Yes or No?
How the fuck would I know what the republicans would do?

Do you know?

And as I said before I am more than happy with government gridlock.

It seems to me that's how the system was designed so as to at least attempt to keep the corrupt politicians and parties in check


Here we have an honest man

Admitting that conservatives want nothing to do with compromise....they want Gridlock

Anyone else willing to admit?
Gridlock is a natural result of the way the constitution was designed.

If you can't see that you're blind.

Seems we have spent 200+ years passing legislation. Seems COMPROMISE is the norm
 
Swing and a Miss...STRIKE TWO!

Committee? I have already offered bring them to the floor for debate and bring up for a vote

If Reid does that.....Do you support allowing the same for Democratic supported bills in the Senate?

Why is it like pulling teeth to get you guys to COMPROMISE?

First- Reid has to send them to certain committees.
Bills passed by the House and the Senate must be sent to their respective committee's, then passed by the certain committee's before they can be brought up on the Senate or House Floor to be debated and then voted on.
Senator Reid has not allowed the house bills to even go to any of the committee's so they can't be voted on period.

Why is it difficult for you to answer a simple question?

Hell with committees, Hell with debate

If Reid allowed those bills to go for a VOTE.....would Republicans agree to allow Democrat bills to go for a vote without 60 vote cloture?

Yes or No?
I'll ask again.

Now it's a simple question

How the fuck can any of us know what the republicans will do?

Would YOU?
WOuld I what?

:banghead:
 
WHen was the last republican filibuster?

Still waiting.....simple question

Will Republicans support ending their filibuster of Democratic bills if Reid allows their bills to come to a vote?

Don't hide behind filibuster/cloture games
You willing to compromise or not?
Simple compromise...Yes or No?
How the fuck would I know what the republicans would do?

Do you know?

And as I said before I am more than happy with government gridlock.

It seems to me that's how the system was designed so as to at least attempt to keep the corrupt politicians and parties in check


Here we have an honest man

Admitting that conservatives want nothing to do with compromise....they want Gridlock

Anyone else willing to admit?
Gridlock is a natural result of the way the constitution was designed.

If you can't see that you're blind.

Seems we have spent 200+ years passing legislation. Seems COMPROMISE is the norm
Really?

More bills fail to pass than pass.

Seems to me the high consensus requirements designed into the constitution are there to make it difficult to pass bills as it should be.

You make the common error of assuming that the mere passing of legislation is progress.
 
WHen was the last republican filibuster?

Still waiting.....simple question

Will Republicans support ending their filibuster of Democratic bills if Reid allows their bills to come to a vote?

Don't hide behind filibuster/cloture games
You willing to compromise or not?
Simple compromise...Yes or No?
How the fuck would I know what the republicans would do?

Do you know?

And as I said before I am more than happy with government gridlock.

It seems to me that's how the system was designed so as to at least attempt to keep the corrupt politicians and parties in check


Here we have an honest man

Admitting that conservatives want nothing to do with compromise....they want Gridlock

Anyone else willing to admit?
Gridlock is a natural result of the way the constitution was designed.

If you can't see that you're blind.

Seems we have spent 200+ years passing legislation. Seems COMPROMISE is the norm
Until we got Reid and Obama. Reid REFUSED to even send to committee bills from the house. No compromise was possible he wouldn't even let a committee work on them to change them , he simply threw them in the trash, The House meanwhile passed bills submitted by the Senate. The republicans were not the ones that stated in 2009 they did not beed democrats to pass bills that was Pelosi Reid and Obama. The people NOT compromising are the democrats since 2009.

When a group of House and Senate met to compromise on the Budget the republicans gave Obama every thing he asked for and then he demanded more. And then he quit working out right.
 
Conservatives wrap themselves in the Constitution and act like they are the only ones concerned with the founders principles in crafting this great document

The key component of our Constitution that Conservatives have declared war on is the idea of compromise. Our founders created a form of governent that was built on the assumption that there would be compromise. Congressmen and Senators must compromise with each other to craft a bill and get it passed....

I will give you this if you will give me that

That is how our government has functioned for hundreds of years. Instead, Conservatives have instituted a policy of....If I don't get my way, nothing will get done

That attitude is an insult to our founders who formed our very government out of compromise
Actually, it's the Liberals that have made it where compromise means doing it their way and shutting up if you don't agree.

If a compromise can't be reached, I'll do it my way because you're going to do it your way.
 

Forum List

Back
Top