Why are the LibTarian / Third Party platforms so bad that they can’t find a viable candidate to run against a couple 80 year olds?

[YoursTruly]

Can the opportunity to win get any better than now? Wouldn’t now be the time to run and give it all you got?
Lib-lites have to beat two 80 year olds…the incumbent has an approval rating of 38% and a shit record across the board and the other candidate is a twice impeached, fraud committing rapist game show host with really bad hair and felony charges up the ass.
COME ON MAN…..if you don’t have a chance now YOU NEVER WILL.

As long as the RNC keeps throwing RINO's down our throats, any libertarian they've put up in the last 5 decades have been better than the R or D choices.
This time around is no different. But the mountain the R & D's have in place, that's impassable for any third party, just keeps getting higher and higher. With a whole new set of talking points and rhetoric to confront.

No one, including the LP leadership has a solution to this, because there's not a solution.

The problem, "How to get 35% of the voting public to to stop being political loyalist to the R & D's. How to get people to stop voting for the lesser of two evils. And how to get them to understand how the R & D's are in cahoots with each other."

If someone could figure out a solution to that, they be a genius. But in todays times, on the right, most republicans don't understand how Trump is the big spending RINO in the room. And on the left, democrats don't understand how the government never actually makes the economy better. So the vast majority of voters who don't understand the role of of government, are electing people who don't really mind the government being as large and ineffective as they are.

 

[YoursTruly]

The duopoly has configured the playing field in such a way that the only viable path to office is through one of them. Hence the libertarians finding a home with republicans and the marxists taking over the democrats.

And those libertarian leaning Republicans, always get shoved in the corner by the RINO's in their party. If they get out of line too much, the RNC will have them primaried. Trump had 3 or 4 of them primaried for objecting to some unconstitutional or overspending bill that he was wanting to sign.

 

[YoursTruly]

It's my opinion. I'm a staunch independent but I never vote for the independent candidate because it is in fact a wasted vote at best, and a damaging vote for the Republicans at worst.

That said I usually vote straight Republican as they are usually the lesser of evils. My true contribution to the nation is good citizenship.

I understand what you mean by "wasted vote." But honestly I think I'd rather waste my vote on someone who's good for the country, than bad. That's hurting the country. And so you could say that voting for Trump or Biden is unpatriotic. Wasting a vote on someone with no chance of winning is way better than voting for some big spending, big government politician, who's only going to make the country worse off.

One of the LP's presidential candidates nailed it when he said the election are like a sports match for most voters now. To a lot of people, it's more about winning the election than who they're electing.

As a fiscal conservative, IMO, Trumps one of THE worst presidents and now candidate that the RNC has ever ran.
So I've got two choices. Either stick to my conservative principles. Or vote for the winner. And then there's option #3. To not even play their game by their rules. (Not vote). Why participate in a rigged game? It's no one's "duty" to support the downfall of this country.

 

[YoursTruly]

I was there. It was a bad scene, man. I've detested the Republican party ever since.



The only ones I'll promote or support now are our own who have held their noses and ran as Republicans. Massie. Rand. Amash. That group...

Get this:

That year I became heavily involved in the RNC. Was a regular at the local RNC meetings. I attempted to be a delegate at the state convention. There was about 12 of us RP supporters doing the same thing. We had a mole in the local chairman's office. She was a secretary. After her 2nd week, she was able to read emails from state leadership. In those emails, some were forwarded from the national party leadership. Even before super Tuesday, the national RNC sent down orders to start steering us local members towards Romney. To not allow in-depth, positive discussions pertaining to any other candidate. Not allow Ron Paul posters, T shirts or yard signs in the headquarters lobby. But those long shot candidates stuff was allowed. The RP stuff was take up as soon as everyone left the building.
During one of the meetings, we were discussing some amendment to the RNC platform and someone stood up and started talking about an amendment that came right out of the Ron Paul speeches. I don't remember the details. But I remember it sounded exactly like something Ron Paul was talking about, (something about the Federal Reserve & republican spending).
The chairman shut that shit down before the guy was even half way finished talking. Someone else ask for a point of enquiry, and got nothing.
So the next secret meetup (with us RP people), the secretary told us that we could not bring up RP at the RNC meetings, because the chairman was going to make sure none of us RP people were state delegates. That the slightest hint that any one of us was going to the state convention in support of RP, they would be blackballed.
Well, we got one RP guy who was able to keep his support secret and made it to state. But our chairman found out about him after he was there, and blackballed him. Somehow she got word to the other local chairman and word spread. So when the votes were counted, he only got like 5 votes.

So I guess my point is, that people think it's just the election workers who are rigging the votes. Some think the media is heavily involved in rigging. Which is true. But the rigging starts at the local level. And every level within the RNC (and DNC) from the local all the way up to those who make the final count of votes. It's their game and their rules, from start to finish.

 

[dblack]

The problem, "How to get 35% of the voting public to to stop being political loyalist to the R & D's. How to get people to stop voting for the lesser of two evils. And how to get them to understand how the R & D's are in cahoots with each other."

If someone could figure out a solution to that, they be a genius. But in todays times, on the right, most republicans don't understand how Trump is the big spending RINO in the room. And on the left, democrats don't understand how the government never actually makes the economy better. So the vast majority of voters who don't understand the role of of government, are electing people who don't really mind the government being as large and ineffective as they are.

I still think Ranked Choice Voting would go a long way toward pulling us out of the downward spiral. That would eliminate lesser-of-two-evils voting and point us toward consensus rather than division. But the R and D establishment will fight it tooth and nail. I'm not sure we can get there without FIRST rejecting the R and D status quo.

 

[YoursTruly]

I still think Ranked Choice Voting would go a long way toward pulling us out of the downward spiral. That would eliminate lesser-of-two-evils voting and point us toward consensus rather than division. But the R and D establishment will fight it tooth and nail. I'm not sure we can get there without FIRST rejecting the R and D status quo.

The will fight every solution, tooth and nail. So the question remains, how to get 35% of the voting public to stop playing the rigged game created by the R & D's.
IMO, there is simply no way possible to beat those two party's.

How many FACTS have been given to Trump supporters about his spending problem, on this forum, and hundreds of others, that ended with them dodging the issue, changing the subject or name calling?
You know me. I'm a die hard fiscal conservative, who's been called a Biden supporter more times than I can count.
Why? Because those who support RINO's are going to do so, no matter the cost.
For the record, the democrats on this forum and others, have called me a Trump supporter.
And no matter what I said to them, their replies were something along the lines of an 8yr old with his fingers in his ears screaming LA LA LA LA LA LA.

 

[YoursTruly]

I still think Ranked Choice Voting would go a long way toward pulling us out of the downward spiral. That would eliminate lesser-of-two-evils voting and point us toward consensus rather than division. But the R and D establishment will fight it tooth and nail. I'm not sure we can get there without FIRST rejecting the R and D status quo.

A note to add something.

Thomas Massie make a great statement. "Libertarians make great Republicans."

 

[Natural Citizen]

Get this:

That year I became heavily involved in the RNC. Was a regular at the local RNC meetings. I attempted to be a delegate at the state convention. There was about 12 of us RP supporters doing the same thing. We had a mole in the local chairman's office. She was a secretary. After her 2nd week, she was able to read emails from state leadership. In those emails, some were forwarded from the national party leadership. Even before super Tuesday, the national RNC sent down orders to start steering us local members towards Romney. To not allow in-depth, positive discussions pertaining to any other candidate. Not allow Ron Paul posters, T shirts or yard signs in the headquarters lobby. But those long shot candidates stuff was allowed. The RP stuff was take up as soon as everyone left the building.
During one of the meetings, we were discussing some amendment to the RNC platform and someone stood up and started talking about an amendment that came right out of the Ron Paul speeches. I don't remember the details. But I remember it sounded exactly like something Ron Paul was talking about, (something about the Federal Reserve & republican spending).
The chairman shut that shit down before the guy was even half way finished talking. Someone else ask for a point of enquiry, and got nothing.
So the next secret meetup (with us RP people), the secretary told us that we could not bring up RP at the RNC meetings, because the chairman was going to make sure none of us RP people were state delegates. That the slightest hint that any one of us was going to the state convention in support of RP, they would be blackballed.
Well, we got one RP guy who was able to keep his support secret and made it to state. But our chairman found out about him after he was there, and blackballed him. Somehow she got word to the other local chairman and word spread. So when the votes were counted, he only got like 5 votes.

So I guess my point is, that people think it's just the election workers who are rigging the votes. Some think the media is heavily involved in rigging. Which is true. But the rigging starts at the local level. And every level within the RNC (and DNC) from the local all the way up to those who make the final count of votes. It's their game and their rules, from start to finish.

Yeah, that was pretty routine treatment back then. And you're exactly right, the local level is absolutely where the real shenanigans happen. Unless people involve themselves in that way, they're never really going ot understand that, or understand just how cut throat it really is. Still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, even to this day. But that was a once in a century phenomenon. It will be a very long time before anotheractual statesman comes along to generate that level of pushback. About once every hundred years, if we're lucky.

It was a heck of a time, though wasn't it? We beat em at their own game. And they knew it. In the end, though, there was never any doubt that they weren't going to do something about it. And, so, what happened happened. Real slimy stuff...

 

[Natural Citizen]

Bernie ran into the same sort of obstacles at the grassroots level later on when he ran. Certainly I was never a supporter of his policies, but I held, and still hold a great deal of respect for the work they did at the grassroots level. It was a strikingy similar approach. Though he did actually vote with Ron on many if the issues against a lot of really bad legislation, even if for different, often antithetical reasons.

If you look around today, true grassroots are deader than a doornail. They just don't exist. Everything is top down, which is one of the reasons why. The establishment won in that regard. They've basically defeated the very notion of grassroots.

That, of course, is why I find myself in the oddball, JWB category these days. I've no interest in participating in that clown show. There's no value in it. Yeah, I'll pop my pie hole off. But I've no real stake in chasing carrots around on a stick, being held out there by some repugnant shmuck in a three piece Wall Street suit.

 

[Marener]

This looks like a job for rank choice voting.

 

[YoursTruly]

This looks like a job for rank choice voting.

I'm not sure about that. #1 would still be the winner.

Looking more into this, I can see how it might bring about a different outcome sometimes. But if you take an election like we have today, I still don't see how Trump wouldn't come out ahead.

When I used to compete in a little singing thing, if it was just one vote, then who ever brought the most people to support them, would always win. (very small venue, with like 30 audience members)
But the one competition that did the ranked choice, it was usually the best artist.

 

[Billiejeens]

People are programmed to vote either Republican or Democrat. I never fell into that trap.

What Trap?

We have a binary system.

 

[YoursTruly]

What Trap?

We have a binary system.

Call it what ever you want. It's still rigged.

 

[Billiejeens]

Bernie ran into the same sort of obstacles at the grassroots level later on when he ran. Certainly I was never a supporter of his policies, but I held, and still hold a great deal of respect for the work they did at the grassroots level. It was a strikingy similar approach. Though he did actually vote with Ron on many if the issues against a lot of really bad legislation, even if for different, often antithetical reasons.

If you look around today, true grassroots are deader than a doornail. They just don't exist. Everything is top down, which is one of the reasons why. The establishment won in that regard. They've basically defeated the very notion of grassroots.

That, of course, is why I find myself in the oddball, JWB category these days. I've no interest in participating in that clown show. There's no value in it. Yeah, I'll pop my pie hole off. But I've no real stake in chasing carrots around on a stick, being held out there by some repugnant shmuck in a three piece Wall Street suit.

President Trump is/was the ultimate grass roots campaign winner.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Schumer and McConnel have sent close to a hundred billion to ukraine yet ignore the millions of illegals, invading our own country like a sieve. If that doesn't tell you how worthless these two parties are and their utter contempt for this country then I don't know what does. The Ls never have a chance because they run someone who can not illustrate or describe what libertarianism really is. Somebody had better figure it out because these new generations are begging for bondage and yell against freedom.

 

[Billiejeens]

Get this:

That year I became heavily involved in the RNC. Was a regular at the local RNC meetings. I attempted to be a delegate at the state convention. There was about 12 of us RP supporters doing the same thing. We had a mole in the local chairman's office. She was a secretary. After her 2nd week, she was able to read emails from state leadership. In those emails, some were forwarded from the national party leadership. Even before super Tuesday, the national RNC sent down orders to start steering us local members towards Romney. To not allow in-depth, positive discussions pertaining to any other candidate. Not allow Ron Paul posters, T shirts or yard signs in the headquarters lobby. But those long shot candidates stuff was allowed. The RP stuff was take up as soon as everyone left the building.
During one of the meetings, we were discussing some amendment to the RNC platform and someone stood up and started talking about an amendment that came right out of the Ron Paul speeches. I don't remember the details. But I remember it sounded exactly like something Ron Paul was talking about, (something about the Federal Reserve & republican spending).
The chairman shut that shit down before the guy was even half way finished talking. Someone else ask for a point of enquiry, and got nothing.
So the next secret meetup (with us RP people), the secretary told us that we could not bring up RP at the RNC meetings, because the chairman was going to make sure none of us RP people were state delegates. That the slightest hint that any one of us was going to the state convention in support of RP, they would be blackballed.
Well, we got one RP guy who was able to keep his support secret and made it to state. But our chairman found out about him after he was there, and blackballed him. Somehow she got word to the other local chairman and word spread. So when the votes were counted, he only got like 5 votes.

So I guess my point is, that people think it's just the election workers who are rigging the votes. Some think the media is heavily involved in rigging. Which is true. But the rigging starts at the local level. And every level within the RNC (and DNC) from the local all the way up to those who make the final count of votes. It's their game and their rules, from start to finish.

Ron Paul -
OMG.

The party has an obligation to not run someone with literally no chance of winning.

 

[Natural Citizen]

That mindset right there is why America has fallen.

The electorate, collectively speaking, really have no firm grasp on what winning actually means.

Ever notice that their version of winning never really entails anything even remotely close to changing the course of history?

Bunch of monkeys trying to hump a football...

 

[JWBooth]

Ron Paul -
OMG.

The party has an obligation to not run someone with literally no chance of winning.

If so, explain Dole, Romney, and McCain.

 

[YoursTruly]

That mindset right there is why America has fallen.

The electorate, collectively speaking, really have no firm grasp on what winning actually means.

Ever notice that their version of winning never really entails anything even remotely close to changing the course of history?

Bunch of monkeys trying to hump a football...

Obama, Trump and Biden won, and the country still lost.

 

[TNHarley]

Ron Paul would have probably been the best President we ever had..