Why didn't Obama and the Democrats Just Go for Single Payor

[ScienceRocks]

Hey republicans give us your votes so we can pass single payer!!!

 

[ScreamingEagle]

It's worked in most countries ... so has Medicare ... just make it available to everyone.

None of them have 300 million people.

Simply scale it up...This is America. A country that once thought we could do anything...

so your big solution is to 'scale up' into one GRAND clusterfuck...?

do you realize Medicare is going broke....? (government healthcare failure)
do you realize Medicaid is going broke....? (government healthcare failure)
do you realize Obamacare will go broke...? (government healthcare failure)

do you realize Obama stole half a trillion from Medicare to startup Obamacare....? that means there was no real money for his pet project.....he's irresponsibly playing with the numbers...all he's created is another money pit....

do you realize hospitals and doctors are avoiding Medicare and Medicaid (and now Obamacare) patients because they don't get paid much from them...govt. set pricing ya know.....plus for many the extra hassle factor is just too much to take...this all is going to result in less doctors which means less actual care available....and rationing will result...

 

[michael39301]

Just a simple question: If we have single-payer, who pays for the infants and youngsters that have no jobs? Exactly how does single payer work? Medicare, which I have, is single payer, but every member has to have some method of payment.

 

[dblack]

Hey republicans give us your votes so we can pass single payer!!!

Democrats sure as hell ain't gonna make it happen.

 

[dblack]

Why didn't Obama and the Democrats Just Go for Single Payor

This is clearly rhetorical, yes?

But for those on the right who are rather dense:

A single payer plan was not proposed because you and others on the right would have gone into full-blown nuclear meltdown mode; just look at the hissy-fit conservatives threw over the ACA, and that was originally their plan.

This is an utterly silly excuse. No Republicans voted for ACA. Their hypothetical response to single payer is irrelevant.

 

[JoeB131]

The insurance companies give large contributions to congress in order to avoid single payer.
That and the stories about waiting lists in countries that do have single payer convince many, who don't do research themselves, that those tales are true.

competing insurance companies are capitalism in action....they are currently fighting for their lives in a system that leaves them with very narrow profits....especially if you compare them with the profits of providers like the drug companies or medical products....but they're the ones who take all the heat when prices go up...

a single payer system sets prices.....this is the big attraction of single payer but also its downfall....

setting arbitrary rates can keep prices down but this causes many insurers and health providers to go out of business or go elsewhere and you are left with no innovation and a rationed healthcare system......

this is why single payer Canadians come down to the U.S. for surgeries and other specialized healthcare....and why Sweden which has long been touted by the liberals as such a great single payer system has moved to private insurers....

many Dems are aware that single payer is not a good solution....but the Far Left has taken over their party and power is their real motivation....in whatever form they can manage to legislate...or as we've seen lately....dictate...

Poor health insurance companies are fighting for their lives. So this is the reason the CEO's are applying for food stamps and section 8 housing. Thanks for keeping us in tears.

"Reduced to a mere 7 figure income, things started to get desperate for the CEO's. They were forced to eat their Dressage Horses without any Grey Poupon!"

 

[Peterf]

I mean this is what they desire! This is what Obaminationcare's end game is. Obaminationcare was designed to fail and fail miserably tearing the enter system down with in, while at the same time upping the number of people in medicaid.

Eventually they will float the only solution is single payor!

However, in the meantime Obaminationcare will decimate the economy and gripple the job market.

I am not arguing whether or not single payor is the solution, but if that is what they so strongly desire, then why didn't they just push that plan when they had the house and senate? I mean not a single republican voted for Obamacare anyways, so why didn't they just go for what they wanted?

We will have single payer within our lifetime.

Unless the lousy pre- and post-Obama care systems kill you first of course.

Most Europeans, including those well to the right like me, think that Americans had the most expensive health system in the world, with the poorest outcome among developed countries. We are prepared to believe that Obamacare made something bad even worse.

Are none of you not a little surprised and concerned that no one anywhere has copied a system only designed to enrich the health care insustry and insurers?

 

[Political Junky]

I mean this is what they desire! This is what Obaminationcare's end game is. Obaminationcare was designed to fail and fail miserably tearing the enter system down with in, while at the same time upping the number of people in medicaid.

Eventually they will float the only solution is single payor!

However, in the meantime Obaminationcare will decimate the economy and gripple the job market.

I am not arguing whether or not single payor is the solution, but if that is what they so strongly desire, then why didn't they just push that plan when they had the house and senate? I mean not a single republican voted for Obamacare anyways, so why didn't they just go for what they wanted?

We will have single payer within our lifetime.

Unless the lousy pre- and post-Obama care systems kill you first of course.

Most Europeans, including those well to the right like me, think that Americans had the most expensive health system in the world, with the poorest outcome among developed countries. We are prepared to believe that Obamacare made something bad even worse.

Are none of you not a little surprised and concerned that no one anywhere has copied a system only designed to enrich the health care insustry and insurers?

Do you think any congressman on the Right would have voted for single payer? We know they didn't vote for the ACA. They would have voted against anything that Obama proposed.

 

[The Rabbi]

Exactly. And that answers the OP's question. The law was written in committee with a great deal of input from the insurance industry and only Bernie Sanders would come out and say what a mess this law was and how we needed single payer.

What's to argue. Dems outside of the leadership and the committee had it (ACA) shoved down their throat just like Repubs did. The only thing is the Dems didn't gag.

This is just big corporations imposing their will on our Congress. It represents what capitalism looks like today.

I thought Repubs were all for capitalism?

That's not capitalism, it's the opposite. Capitalism requires that government stay out of our economic decisions.

Ahha. In the world inhabited by those that are blind to the truth, you might be correct.

But the sad fact is that major corporations and government have a revolving door program where they just change personnel and continue with business as usual. Which is, I give you a nice donation, you give me a nice piece of legislation. Then, when the Congresscritter gets tired of not making any real money, they retire from Congress and take a job with a big corporation or lobbying group for major money.

Don't you read much about corporations/Wall street and our congress?

It's a "plutocracy" thing. Taking care of their own.

It's Zeke, toothless stumpbroke of USMB inadvertantly making a good point. What you describe is crony capitalism, the kind the conservatives here have been railing against and the liberals been fanning. Like that idiot Matthew with his "more science technology and infrastructure" line every damn post. That's crony capitalism right there.

 

[bripat9643]

We will have single payer within our lifetime.

Unless the lousy pre- and post-Obama care systems kill you first of course.

Most Europeans, including those well to the right like me, think that Americans had the most expensive health system in the world, with the poorest outcome among developed countries. We are prepared to believe that Obamacare made something bad even worse.

Are none of you not a little surprised and concerned that no one anywhere has copied a system only designed to enrich the health care insustry and insurers?

Do you think any congressman on the Right would have voted for single payer? We know they didn't vote for the ACA. They would have voted against anything that Obama proposed.

What difference would it have made? You said yourself that none of them voted for Obamacare.

 

[The Rabbi]

I mean this is what they desire! This is what Obaminationcare's end game is. Obaminationcare was designed to fail and fail miserably tearing the enter system down with in, while at the same time upping the number of people in medicaid.

Eventually they will float the only solution is single payor!

However, in the meantime Obaminationcare will decimate the economy and gripple the job market.

I am not arguing whether or not single payor is the solution, but if that is what they so strongly desire, then why didn't they just push that plan when they had the house and senate? I mean not a single republican voted for Obamacare anyways, so why didn't they just go for what they wanted?

We will have single payer within our lifetime.

Unless the lousy pre- and post-Obama care systems kill you first of course.

Most Europeans, including those well to the right like me, think that Americans had the most expensive health system in the world, with the poorest outcome among developed countries. We are prepared to believe that Obamacare made something bad even worse.

Are none of you not a little surprised and concerned that no one anywhere has copied a system only designed to enrich the health care insustry and insurers?

That of course has been debunked time and again. The U.S. provides the best outcomes when people actually get sick.

 

[Contumacious]

The Health Insurance lobby owns most of the Senate, Reid included.

But nothing else you posted here is the slightest bit true.

Really.

Grow a pair and provide a link to the pertinent Congressional Record.

Go for it.

.

Bill Summary & Status - 111th Congress (2009 - 2010) - H.R.3590 - All Information - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

There was 2 months of debate in the Senate, and countless amendments added throughout the month of December 2009. The vote was called at 7:05 AM on Christmas Eve, with all members of the Senate present and voting except for one.

There was nothing "secret" about it and every member of the Senate had ample opportunity to read it before the vote, and offer amendments - including the many amendments proposed by Republicans that ended up in the final bill.

Excuse me Dingle Berry.

That was a copy of the SUMMARY OF BILL INTRODUCED IN THE SENATE. I want A COPY OF THE ACTUAL DEBATES.

NY TIMES

“It’s obvious why the majority has cooked up this amendment in secret, has introduced it in the middle of a snowstorm, has scheduled the Senate to come in session at midnight, has scheduled a vote for 1 a.m., is insisting that it be passed before Christmas — because they don’t want the American people to know what’s in it,”


said Senator Lamar Alexander, Republican of Tennessee.

.

.


.

 

[Peterf]

We will have single payer within our lifetime.

Unless the lousy pre- and post-Obama care systems kill you first of course.

Most Europeans, including those well to the right like me, think that Americans had the most expensive health system in the world, with the poorest outcome among developed countries. We are prepared to believe that Obamacare made something bad even worse.

Are none of you not a little surprised and concerned that no one anywhere has copied a system only designed to enrich the health care insustry and insurers?

Do you think any congressman on the Right would have voted for single payer? We know they didn't vote for the ACA. They would have voted against anything that Obama proposed.

I don't suppose so. The US right seem to have a dogma that single payer is 'socialist' and by definition bad. But in Europe it has, it its different forms, proved to be the way of getting the best healthcare outcome for the money spent. And there are a lot of companies involved in all sorts of different ways.

The US is not yet able to study how things are done in other countries and to learn from them. Patriotism is great but "whatever we do must be the best" is an unhelpful attitude.

 

[Contumacious]

Really.

Grow a pair and provide a link to the pertinent Congressional Record.

Go for it.

.

Bill Summary & Status - 111th Congress (2009 - 2010) - H.R.3590 - All Information - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

There was 2 months of debate in the Senate, and countless amendments added throughout the month of December 2009. The vote was called at 7:05 AM on Christmas Eve, with all members of the Senate present and voting except for one.

There was nothing "secret" about it and every member of the Senate had ample opportunity to read it before the vote, and offer amendments - including the many amendments proposed by Republicans that ended up in the final bill.

Excuse me Dingle Berry.

That was a copy of the SUMMARY OF BILL INTRODUCED IN THE SENATE. I want A COPY OF THE ACTUAL DEBATES.

NY TIMES

“It’s obvious why the majority has cooked up this amendment in secret, has introduced it in the middle of a snowstorm, has scheduled the Senate to come in session at midnight, has scheduled a vote for 1 a.m., is insisting that it be passed before Christmas — because they don’t want the American people to know what’s in it,”


said Senator Lamar Alexander, Republican of Tennessee.

.

.


.

 

[The Rabbi]

Unless the lousy pre- and post-Obama care systems kill you first of course.

Most Europeans, including those well to the right like me, think that Americans had the most expensive health system in the world, with the poorest outcome among developed countries. We are prepared to believe that Obamacare made something bad even worse.

Are none of you not a little surprised and concerned that no one anywhere has copied a system only designed to enrich the health care insustry and insurers?

Do you think any congressman on the Right would have voted for single payer? We know they didn't vote for the ACA. They would have voted against anything that Obama proposed.

I don't suppose so. The US right seem to have a dogma that single payer is 'socialist' and by definition bad. But in Europe it has, it its different forms, proved to be the way of getting the best healthcare outcome for the money spent. And there are a lot of companies involved in all sorts of different ways.

The US is not yet able to study how things are done in other countries and to learn from them. Patriotism is great but "whatever we do must be the best" is an unhelpful attitude.

Britain:
Now It's Britain's Turn for a Health Care Reform Battle

Germany
Germany passes unpopular healthcare reform | Reuters

Sweden:
Will Swedish healthcare reforms affect equity? | BMJ

Yes every country has experienced the same problems: burgeoning costs. Their solutions involve the same remedies: more competition. Why we expect that somehow it's going to be different here is beyond me.

 

[francoHFW]

ACA is the Pub plan that will be like HOLLAND'S AND SWITZ'S IN THE END- VERY CAPITALIST, AND WILL BE JUST FINE, AND WORKED ON FOREVER. sAVAGE CAPITALISM DOESN'T WORK, ESPECIALLY IN HEALTH CARE...If the new bs GOP wasn't mindless, many Pubs would have voted for it...

 

[francoHFW]

Do you think any congressman on the Right would have voted for single payer? We know they didn't vote for the ACA. They would have voted against anything that Obama proposed.

I don't suppose so. The US right seem to have a dogma that single payer is 'socialist' and by definition bad. But in Europe it has, it its different forms, proved to be the way of getting the best healthcare outcome for the money spent. And there are a lot of companies involved in all sorts of different ways.

The US is not yet able to study how things are done in other countries and to learn from them. Patriotism is great but "whatever we do must be the best" is an unhelpful attitude.

Britain:
Now It's Britain's Turn for a Health Care Reform Battle

Germany
Germany passes unpopular healthcare reform | Reuters

Sweden:
Will Swedish healthcare reforms affect equity? | BMJ

Yes every country has experienced the same problems: burgeoning costs. Their solutions involve the same remedies: more competition. Why we expect that somehow it's going to be different here is beyond me.

More like the Euros had to tinker to cut costs in this Pub Great Recession...The exchanges and transparency of costs in ACA are all about competition...

 

[dblack]

ACA is the Pub plan that will be like HOLLAND'S AND SWITZ'S IN THE END- VERY CAPITALIST, AND WILL BE JUST FINE, AND WORKED ON FOREVER. sAVAGE CAPITALISM DOESN'T WORK, ESPECIALLY IN HEALTH CARE...If the new bs GOP wasn't mindless, many Pubs would have voted for it...

If any those "sentences" made sense on their own, it might be worth trying to figure out how they're supposed to fit together...

 

[Bluedog]

To The OP: the insurance lobby has both sides of the aisle in their pockets. IMHO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

Most dems won't even say publicly that they are for a single payer system. They know Americans reject the idea.

No. They know that a well funded minority of Americans reject the idea. Huge difference.

It is a common sense policy. It saves money and improves outcomes.

The lobby against it is strong......but to claim that Americans reject it is bullshit.

Like hell it improves outcomes. under single payer, there is zero profit motive so all the innovations and breakthroughs that we've seen will no longer happen.