Why do people hate Liberals?

[Pogo]

I don't "hate" liberals. But I do think they are to blame for the color going out of our world.

They want everyone to be their version of equal.

What they lack to realize is that they are forcing the world to become bland and tasteless

They want 2 things. Control over us, and credit when something actually works out, and to blame us for everyone of their failed policies, .... okay, you got me, 3 things.

With all due respect, how the fuck do you know what I want?

That ^^ is exactly why I keep citing Strawman.

 

[AVG-JOE]

He meant "You didn't build that!"

Have you guys figured out that Obama was referring to public infrastructure and NOT the man's business when he made that comment, or are you still having fun sittin' and spinnin'?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50Okd7CsytE]sit n spin - YouTube[/ame]

I didn't think you were that simpleminded, but ya drank the KoolAid!

You brought it up, Frank. You brought it up.

 

[Foxfyre]

They want 2 things. Control over us, and credit when something actually works out, and to blame us for everyone of their failed policies, .... okay, you got me, 3 things.

With all due respect, how the fuck do you know what I want?

That ^^ is exactly why I keep citing Strawman.

Except you tend to accuse others of building them and cannot seem to recognize your own.

 

[AVG-JOE]

At least conservatives HAVE think tanks. And Heritage uses damn good researchers, economists, and historians with impressive credentials. I have challenged my liberal friends many times to show HOW the Heritage Foundation got something wrong. So far crickets.

I won't lie about the excellent sources I use to support my opinions whether they be conservative (Heritage Foundation), libertarian (CATO), or liberal (Brookings Institute) and et al. In order to pass my test as a credible source, the information provided has to hold up under scrutiny and has to be untainted by partisanship.

I do avoid using sources that exist for the purpose of exposing or challenging the opposing ideology whether those be left or right leaning. The Heritage Foundation is not in that business.

Both Heritage and CATO are as equally tough on bad Republican initiatives as they are bad Democratic initiatives, and flawed concepts promoted as 'conservative' as they are on failed liberal initiatives. And both are brutally honest in their conclusions. I use Brookings (and other sources) for the credfible liberal argument because Brookings and some others (Raspbery, Camille Paglia, Michael Kinsley, et al) have stood up under scrutiny as being among the most objective and honest left leaning groups or commentators out there.

I won't apologize for being a modern American conservative (aka classical liberal) with a point of view that I can defend or for using good sources only because they share my point of view. I think it foolish to dismiss an honest source because of the label somebody puts on it.

And again my opinion has been that liberals cannot and will not defend their point of view but rather their entire argument most often is pointing fingers at others that they declare to be evil, greedy, selfish, wrong, bad, worse, partisan (meaning not liberal), or they did it too, yadda yadda. And by dismissing any evidence to the contrary, they never have to challenge their own point of view.

It is one of the primary reasons that liberalism is in such disfavor among a plurality if not a majority of Americans.

From a 2009 Gallup poll--I'll watch for something more current:


"Conservatives" Are Single-Largest Ideological Group

The Heritage Foundation is funded by the biggest polluters on our planet who have caused the death and destruction of millions of human beings. And when right wing parrots like you chirp, there is always a puff of smoke.

I'll take one large Kool-Aid, and 3 small Kool-Aids to go, ..... no wait, make that 2-16 oz Kool-Aids, my left leaning friends can't be seen in public with anything larger than 16 oz. Ever get tired of slandering and obstructing the truth, and attacking the messengers, let us know. What would you do if that same standard was applied to you and your sources? Melt? Why is it that you see yourself so without fault or flaw, while your opposition cann get nothing right? It is amazing to watch.

The kool-aid thing is pretty childish...

I'm guessing from your comment that you know that you know that you know that Heritage is NOT supported by individuals and corporations with records of pollution, so, inquiring minds want to know... who DOES fund Heritage?

 

[Beachboy]

Having been a Republican and a Democrat, I found my home as an independent. There are whack jobs on both sides of the aisle. The thing that has always amazed me, (and it always comes for someone who thinks they know more than you), is "If you are a conservative/liberal your stand on global warming is: xxxxx Your stand on Social Security is: xxxxxx Your stand on Afghanistan is: xxxxx

I keep coming back to the remark of Jeff Foxworthy. "America was founded by geniuses, and is run by idiots." When I am not crying about the condition my our country, I am laughing at it. Well, I am tired of crying.

If the citizens of the United States want just sit and bitch about things instead of getting off their asses and working for a candidate or idea, we deserve to go down the crapper. I am preparing for that possibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Foxworthy
​

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't "hate" liberals. But I do think they are to blame for the color going out of our world.

They want everyone to be their version of equal.

What they lack to realize is that they are forcing the world to become bland and tasteless

They want 2 things. Control over us, and credit when something actually works out, and to blame us for everyone of their failed policies, .... okay, you got me, 3 things.

With all due respect, how the fuck do you know what I want?

So you are saying that he is talking about you? You are a self-described liberal? The opinion is based on what we read in the papers, what we see on television, what we hear on the radio, and what we observe on message boards like USMB. We see post after post reinforcing the summary Intense provided, and others glad handing those posts with thanks. When you say 'hate' summarizes our point of view, what are we to conclude other than that is your opinion of us? And yet you provide no examples to back that up.

At least the conservatives have been providing example after example after example of why we hold the opinions that we do. And most of what we get in response is the usual 'prove it' or 'they/you do it too' or 'whose is blackest?' No attempt to rebut the concepts themselves. Just a LOT of vitriole and mild to severe ad hominem tossed at anybody expressing the conservative observation or point of view.

Disclaimer: I am NOT excusing conservatives who do that too. But many here have been offering some pretty solid stuff that you guys really could rebut with substance. The fact that you don't, however, rreinforces the opinion that you can't. (Using the rhetorical 'you' here and not necessary directing this only at Avg-Joe)

 

[AVG-JOE]

I don't "hate" liberals. But I do think they are to blame for the color going out of our world.

They want everyone to be their version of equal.

What they lack to realize is that they are forcing the world to become bland and tasteless

How do you know what 'liberals' want?

Did ANY conservatives think of Romney or McCain as the 'Messiah'? Did you vote for them anyway? Is it possible that SOME of us were of the simple opinion that Obama was simply the lesser of the two evils present?

Why does it have to be "Conservative or Kool-aid" with no shades of grey?

I just don't understand my opinions being written off so quickly and thoroughly.

 

[Wolfsister77]

I never see a Liberal calling Obama the messiah. That only comes from Conservatives as a way to denigrate Liberals.

 

[AVG-JOE]

They want 2 things. Control over us, and credit when something actually works out, and to blame us for everyone of their failed policies, .... okay, you got me, 3 things.

With all due respect, how the fuck do you know what I want?

So you are saying that he is talking about you? You are a self-described liberal? The opinion is based on what we read in the papers, what we see on television, what we hear on the radio, and what we observe on message boards like USMB. We see post after post reinforcing the summary Intense provided, and others glad handing those posts with thanks. When you say 'hate' summarizes our point of view, what are we to conclude other than that is your opinion of us? And yet you provide no examples to back that up.

At least the conservatives have been providing example after example after example of why we hold the opinions that we do. And most of what we get in response is the usual 'prove it' or 'they/you do it too' or 'whose is blackest?' No attempt to rebut the concepts themselves. Just a LOT of vitriole and mild to severe ad hominem tossed at anybody expressing the conservative observation or point of view.

Disclaimer: I am NOT excusing conservatives who do that too. But many here have been offering some pretty solid stuff that you guys really could rebut with substance. The fact that you don't, however, rreinforces the opinion that you can't.

It's all opinion!

Conservative opinion is that marriage and all the government benefits and tax advantages that go along with it should be restricted and limited. I believe that Americans should be free to marry whoever they want - apparently that labels me as a liberal.

On most political subjects, there is no right opinion or wrong opinion, only differences of those opinions.

The best government size and scope? A matter of opinion.

Freedom in marriage? A matter of opinion.

Defining God (or lack there of)? A matter of opinion.

The things that separate conservatives from liberals in politics is ALL a matter of opinion.

 

[AVG-JOE]

And yes... I'm proud to describe myself as a 'Liberal'.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Have you figured out that his implication was that nobody can take credit for the business they built because somebody else built the infrastructure is just as offensive? Or his suggestion that we all haven't contributed to the building of the infrastructure? Or if there was no commerce and industry, built by the hard work, imagination, creativity, inspiration, and dedication of citizens willing to risk sometimes everything they have to do that, there would be no need for infrastructure?

That his intent was to diminish individual initative and accomplishment in favor of the collective?

And THAT is why liberalism, as it is defined in America today, is in such disfavor with those who still value the ideals and concepts the Founders wrote into the Constitution.

Can you please provide a link to a credible source where Obama defined that as 'his intent'?

Why is it conservatives think that support for the community at large MUST come at the expense of support for the individual?

Can you provide a link to a credible source in which he has EVER suggested that it was anything else? Has he EVER given private enterprise credit for anything that would have happened without government making it happen? His attitude, along with that of most modern day American liberals, is that government mostly preceded all human initiative and prosperity and that government gets credit for most of it and prosperity can't happen unless government makes it happen.

Conservatives think that support from the community must come via social contract--i.e. what the people who will pay for it decide--for the general welfare and not for the support of a privileged few whether those few be rich or poor. Whenever the federal government is given power to confiscate property of one citizen for the benefit of another, it has power to do anything it wants to anybody and there is no freedom.

Is the Associated Press credible enough?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bw9mHf_O98]Obama's 'You Didn't Build That' Echoes - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Foxfyre]

With all due respect, how the fuck do you know what I want?

So you are saying that he is talking about you? You are a self-described liberal? The opinion is based on what we read in the papers, what we see on television, what we hear on the radio, and what we observe on message boards like USMB. We see post after post reinforcing the summary Intense provided, and others glad handing those posts with thanks. When you say 'hate' summarizes our point of view, what are we to conclude other than that is your opinion of us? And yet you provide no examples to back that up.

At least the conservatives have been providing example after example after example of why we hold the opinions that we do. And most of what we get in response is the usual 'prove it' or 'they/you do it too' or 'whose is blackest?' No attempt to rebut the concepts themselves. Just a LOT of vitriole and mild to severe ad hominem tossed at anybody expressing the conservative observation or point of view.

Disclaimer: I am NOT excusing conservatives who do that too. But many here have been offering some pretty solid stuff that you guys really could rebut with substance. The fact that you don't, however, rreinforces the opinion that you can't.

It's all opinion!

Conservative opinion is that marriage and all the government benefits and tax advantages that go along with it should be restricted and limited. I believe that Americans should be free to marry whoever they want - apparently that labels me as a liberal.

On most political subjects, there is no right opinion or wrong opinion, only differences of those opinions.

The best government size and scope? A matter of opinion.

Freedom in marriage? A matter of opinion.

Defining God (or lack there of)? A matter of opinion.

The things that separate conservatives from liberals in politics is ALL a matter of opinion.

And there are valid arguments for all those 'opinions'. The right to worship as one chooses or not worship anything is not opinion. It is a policy, an unalienable right recognized by the U.S. Constitution. A hard core fact.

The Constitution never intended the federal government to be involved in marriage laws that were to be the prerogative of the state. The Constitution never intended for special federal tax benefits or penalities to be imposed on anybody, married or not, regardless of how marriage was defined, or for any other reason. That is not opinion. Those are hard core facts.

The benefits of the traditional marriage can be analyzed using hard data of affluence, child poverty, crime rates, porperty values, neighborhood stability. Not opinion. Hard core fact that has nothing to do with same sex marriage and can be evaluated on its own merit.

The best government in size and scope can be measured against the amount of freedoms we enjoy and the quantity and extent of choices and options limited to us via actions of government. We are informed by concrete documents of history what the Founders intended government to be and what it has become is visible, tangible, and obvious for anybody willing to see. Not opinion. Hard core fact.

But even when it comes to opinion--those who prefer a Mayberry USA to a Deadwood in its hellfire days, for instance--even there the obvious intent of the Founders was that the people themselves would choose what they wanted. It would not be dictated to them by the federal government. And that too is not opinion, but hard core fact.

 

[MeBelle]

I never see a Liberal calling Obama the messiah.

​

Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. (D-Ill.), son of the one-time presidential contender, said Obama’s victory overwhelmed him.
“I cried all night. I’m going to be crying for the next four years,” he said. “What Barack Obama has accomplished is the single most extraordinary event that has occurred in the 232 years of the nation’s political history. ... The event itself is so extraordinary that another chapter could be added to the Bible to chronicle its significance.”
Black lawmakers emotional about Obama's success - POLITICO.com Print View

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlyYTYMHWYw]THE AGE OF OBAMA: Jamie Foxx - "Obama is Our God, Our Lord and Savior"! - YouTube[/ame]

“This is bigger than Kennedy. . . . This is the New Testament.” . . .”I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don’t have that too often. No, seriously. It’s a dramatic event.” — Chris Matthews

​

 

[Pogo]

I never see a Liberal calling Obama the messiah.

​

Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. (D-Ill.), son of the one-time presidential contender, said Obama’s victory overwhelmed him.
“I cried all night. I’m going to be crying for the next four years,” he said. “What Barack Obama has accomplished is the single most extraordinary event that has occurred in the 232 years of the nation’s political history. ... The event itself is so extraordinary that another chapter could be added to the Bible to chronicle its significance.”
Black lawmakers emotional about Obama's success - POLITICO.com Print View

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlyYTYMHWYw]THE AGE OF OBAMA: Jamie Foxx - "Obama is Our God, Our Lord and Savior"! - YouTube[/ame]

“This is bigger than Kennedy. . . . This is the New Testament.” . . .”I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don’t have that too often. No, seriously. It’s a dramatic event.” — Chris Matthews

​

Did you notice that your citation there (actually both of them) refer to an event rather than a person?

And in between -- Jamie Foxx is a comedian satirizing the very strawman we're talking about.

Nice try though.

 

[AVG-JOE]

So you are saying that he is talking about you? You are a self-described liberal? The opinion is based on what we read in the papers, what we see on television, what we hear on the radio, and what we observe on message boards like USMB. We see post after post reinforcing the summary Intense provided, and others glad handing those posts with thanks. When you say 'hate' summarizes our point of view, what are we to conclude other than that is your opinion of us? And yet you provide no examples to back that up.

At least the conservatives have been providing example after example after example of why we hold the opinions that we do. And most of what we get in response is the usual 'prove it' or 'they/you do it too' or 'whose is blackest?' No attempt to rebut the concepts themselves. Just a LOT of vitriole and mild to severe ad hominem tossed at anybody expressing the conservative observation or point of view.

Disclaimer: I am NOT excusing conservatives who do that too. But many here have been offering some pretty solid stuff that you guys really could rebut with substance. The fact that you don't, however, rreinforces the opinion that you can't.

It's all opinion!

Conservative opinion is that marriage and all the government benefits and tax advantages that go along with it should be restricted and limited. I believe that Americans should be free to marry whoever they want - apparently that labels me as a liberal.

On most political subjects, there is no right opinion or wrong opinion, only differences of those opinions.

The best government size and scope? A matter of opinion.

Freedom in marriage? A matter of opinion.

Defining God (or lack there of)? A matter of opinion.

The things that separate conservatives from liberals in politics is ALL a matter of opinion.

And there are valid arguments for all those 'opinions'. The right to worship as one chooses or not worship anything is not opinion. It is a policy, an unalienable right recognized by the U.S. Constitution. A hard core fact.

The Constitution never intended the federal government to be involved in marriage laws that were to be the prerogative of the state. The Constitution never intended for special federal tax benefits or penalities to be imposed on anybody, married or not, regardless of how marriage was defined, or for any other reason. That is not opinion. Those are hard core facts.

The benefits of the traditional marriage can be analyzed using hard data of affluence, child poverty, crime rates, porperty values, neighborhood stability. Not opinion. Hard core fact that has nothing to do with same sex marriage and can be evaluated on its own merit.

The best government in size and scope can be measured against the amount of freedoms we enjoy and the quantity and extent of choices and options limited to us via actions of government. We are informed by concrete documents of history what the Founders intended government to be and what it has become is visible, tangible, and obvious for anybody willing to see. Not opinion. Hard core fact.

But even when it comes to opinion--those who prefer a Mayberry USA to a Deadwood in its hellfire days, for instance--even there the obvious intent of the Founders was that the people themselves would choose what they wanted. It would not be dictated to them by the federal government. And that too is not opinion, but hard core fact.

All true. And I appreciate hearing your opinion on those subjects even when we disagree about the resulting policies.

It's opinions that change policy, not the other way around.

 

[AVG-JOE]

So you are saying that he is talking about you? You are a self-described liberal? The opinion is based on what we read in the papers, what we see on television, what we hear on the radio, and what we observe on message boards like USMB. We see post after post reinforcing the summary Intense provided, and others glad handing those posts with thanks. When you say 'hate' summarizes our point of view, what are we to conclude other than that is your opinion of us? And yet you provide no examples to back that up.

At least the conservatives have been providing example after example after example of why we hold the opinions that we do. And most of what we get in response is the usual 'prove it' or 'they/you do it too' or 'whose is blackest?' No attempt to rebut the concepts themselves. Just a LOT of vitriole and mild to severe ad hominem tossed at anybody expressing the conservative observation or point of view.

Disclaimer: I am NOT excusing conservatives who do that too. But many here have been offering some pretty solid stuff that you guys really could rebut with substance. The fact that you don't, however, rreinforces the opinion that you can't.

It's all opinion!

Conservative opinion is that marriage and all the government benefits and tax advantages that go along with it should be restricted and limited. I believe that Americans should be free to marry whoever they want - apparently that labels me as a liberal.

On most political subjects, there is no right opinion or wrong opinion, only differences of those opinions.

The best government size and scope? A matter of opinion.

Freedom in marriage? A matter of opinion.

Defining God (or lack there of)? A matter of opinion.

The things that separate conservatives from liberals in politics is ALL a matter of opinion.

And there are valid arguments for all those 'opinions'. The right to worship as one chooses or not worship anything is not opinion. It is a policy, an unalienable right recognized by the U.S. Constitution. A hard core fact.

The Constitution never intended the federal government to be involved in marriage laws that were to be the prerogative of the state. The Constitution never intended for special federal tax benefits or penalities to be imposed on anybody, married or not, regardless of how marriage was defined, or for any other reason. That is not opinion. Those are hard core facts.

The benefits of the traditional marriage can be analyzed using hard data of affluence, child poverty, crime rates, porperty values, neighborhood stability. Not opinion. Hard core fact that has nothing to do with same sex marriage and can be evaluated on its own merit.

The best government in size and scope can be measured against the amount of freedoms we enjoy and the quantity and extent of choices and options limited to us via actions of government. We are informed by concrete documents of history what the Founders intended government to be and what it has become is visible, tangible, and obvious for anybody willing to see. Not opinion. Hard core fact.

But even when it comes to opinion--those who prefer a Mayberry USA to a Deadwood in its hellfire days, for instance--even there the obvious intent of the Founders was that the people themselves would choose what they wanted. It would not be dictated to them by the federal government. And that too is not opinion, but hard core fact.

I can't help but wonder about this paragraph and the conservative policy issued from the federal level called the Defense Of Marriage Act that was recently struck down. It appears to me that conservatives are all about changing lives from the top down when it comes to marriage.

Are you a weird conservative who actively challenged DOMA, or is DOMA an inconvenient truth about conservative ideology?

 

[MeBelle]

I never see a Liberal calling Obama the messiah.

​

Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. (D-Ill.), son of the one-time presidential contender, said Obama’s victory overwhelmed him.
“I cried all night. I’m going to be crying for the next four years,” he said. “What Barack Obama has accomplished is the single most extraordinary event that has occurred in the 232 years of the nation’s political history. ... The event itself is so extraordinary that another chapter could be added to the Bible to chronicle its significance.”
Black lawmakers emotional about Obama's success - POLITICO.com Print View

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlyYTYMHWYw]THE AGE OF OBAMA: Jamie Foxx - "Obama is Our God, Our Lord and Savior"! - YouTube[/ame]

“This is bigger than Kennedy. . . . This is the New Testament.” . . .”I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don’t have that too often. No, seriously. It’s a dramatic event.” — Chris Matthews

​

Did you notice that your citation there (actually both of them) refer to an event rather than a person?

And in between -- Jamie Foxx is a comedian satirizing the very strawman we're talking about.

Nice try though.

I guess you missed this:

and
​

There used to be a razz emoticon, sorry you and Wolfsister77 missed the lightheartedness of my post.

 

[Wolfsister77]

Sorry, I must be blind as a bat-I did miss those emoticons. Oops.

 

[Pogo]

Sorry, I must be blind as a bat-I did miss those emoticons. Oops.

I saw them but didn't know what they meant.
Methinks MeBelle needs to work on her delivery.

 

[Wolfsister77]

Good point, reading intent in internet postings can be tricky sometimes.