Why do people hate Liberals?

[Foxfyre]

We can ignore those who are simply being who and what they are no matter how offensive or non productive or wrong that may appear to us. Not so easy to ignore those who have the power and intend to use it to impose their offensive or non productive or dangerous or wrong values, ideas, programs, requirements on the rest of us.

Ultimately, none of us are victims. IMO, dealing with bad behavior in others is an inside job. We can't go around policing the universe. We can take space from someone who is determined to harm. Pull far enough back so that the heart can remain open and compassionate to ourselves and to the one doing harm.

It has nothing to do with our attitude toward one doing harm. It has everything to do with not allowing others to deliberately or inadvertently do harm to us. And when it comes to those with power to influence and/or pass legislation or write laws/regulations that bind us, it really does come down to a matter of self defense.

OK. We see things differently.

Probably so. But as long as political correctness requires us to see liberalism as something nobel and honorable even as it does serious harm to our society and form of government, it is a shame that so many see things differently.

Sorry to hear you say that, (as a lifelong, liberal). As far as nobility is concerned, if I can see something honorable and noble in conservative people regardless of their political opinions, I wonder why you can't see that in liberals.

It all comes from caring, and feeling from the bottom of each of our hearts that the policies coming out of compromise between the partiies is the way to accomplish great benefit for our country.

IMO, good heart doesn't have a political position. We lose that everytime we objectify each other instead of connecting as fellow human beings and American citizens.

Just my opinion.

Actually I do see nobility as human beings in many liberals I know personally--some I would trust with anything I own including my life. I have become friends with a number of people who identify themselves as liberals in this strange internet world. The liberals who post in the Coffee Shop now and then are some of my favorite people at USMB for instance.

The difference between you and me--maybe, and I could be wrong here as I am just getting to know you and so far my impressions have been positive--is that I can separate the liberal from the liberalism he/she believes in. It is not the liberal, but the liberalism he/she promotes that I object to.

However, I will allow anybody their beliefs and convictions in peace, no matter how wrong I think they are so long as they allow me my own beliefs and convictions in peace. But when I think progressives/liberals are forcing harm on others I will speak up and prevent the harm if I can. And when somebody tries to force damaging liberalism on me or attempts to punish me because I don't see things as they see them, that's when I will push back as hard as I am able.

 

[Dhara]

Ultimately, none of us are victims. IMO, dealing with bad behavior in others is an inside job. We can't go around policing the universe. We can take space from someone who is determined to harm. Pull far enough back so that the heart can remain open and compassionate to ourselves and to the one doing harm.

It has nothing to do with our attitude toward one doing harm. It has everything to do with not allowing others to deliberately or inadvertently do harm to us. And when it comes to those with power to influence and/or pass legislation or write laws/regulations that bind us, it really does come down to a matter of self defense.

OK. We see things differently.

Probably so. But as long as political correctness requires us to see liberalism as something nobel and honorable even as it does serious harm to our society and form of government, it is a shame that so many see things differently.

Sorry to hear you say that, (as a lifelong, liberal). As far as nobility is concerned, if I can see something honorable and noble in conservative people regardless of their political opinions, I wonder why you can't see that in liberals.

It all comes from caring, and feeling from the bottom of each of our hearts that the policies coming out of compromise between the partiies is the way to accomplish great benefit for our country.

IMO, good heart doesn't have a political position. We lose that everytime we objectify each other instead of connecting as fellow human beings and American citizens.

Just my opinion.

Actually I do see nobility as human beings in many liberals I know personally--some I would trust with anything I own including my life. I have become friends with a number of people who identify themselves as liberals in this strange internet world. The difference between you and me is that I can separate the liberal from the liberalism he/she believes in. It is not the liberal, but the liberalism he/she promotes that I object to.

I will allow anybody their beliefs and convictions in peace, no matter how wrong I think they are so long as they allow me my own beliefs and convictions in peace. But when I think progressives/liberals are forcing harm on others I will speak up and prevent the harm if I can. And when somebody tries to force damaging liberalism on me or attempts to punish me because I don't see things as they see them, that's when I will push back as hard as I am able.

First of all, one way we differ is I don't believe in "liberalism". There are policies that are considered liberal, that I support. For instance, a woman's right to choose. Reproductive rights for women.

I support Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Food Stamps, WIC and funding public education, public employees like fire fighters, law enforcement.

"Liberalism" is invented by the RW as a way to demonize other citizens. I think that's wrong.

I don't broad brush Muslims or think it's wrong to allow Syrian refugees to emigrate to the US. What it gets down to is you and I think differently. As American citizens, we have that right. Plenty of people I love happen to be conservatives. We just don't emphasize our differences. We love each other as people, as human beings. I know I'd have their backs and I'm secure they'd have mine.

As for who you think is "punishing" you. I find that pretty curious. What is it you feel "punished" about? And who do you think is "punishing" you?

How is it you think anyone is "forcing you" to accept another's convictions? We are, each of us, free to disagree passionately with each other. And free to love each other, find common ground.

 

[Foxfyre]

It has nothing to do with our attitude toward one doing harm. It has everything to do with not allowing others to deliberately or inadvertently do harm to us. And when it comes to those with power to influence and/or pass legislation or write laws/regulations that bind us, it really does come down to a matter of self defense.

OK. We see things differently.

Probably so. But as long as political correctness requires us to see liberalism as something nobel and honorable even as it does serious harm to our society and form of government, it is a shame that so many see things differently.

Sorry to hear you say that, (as a lifelong, liberal). As far as nobility is concerned, if I can see something honorable and noble in conservative people regardless of their political opinions, I wonder why you can't see that in liberals.

It all comes from caring, and feeling from the bottom of each of our hearts that the policies coming out of compromise between the partiies is the way to accomplish great benefit for our country.

IMO, good heart doesn't have a political position. We lose that everytime we objectify each other instead of connecting as fellow human beings and American citizens.

Just my opinion.

Actually I do see nobility as human beings in many liberals I know personally--some I would trust with anything I own including my life. I have become friends with a number of people who identify themselves as liberals in this strange internet world. The difference between you and me is that I can separate the liberal from the liberalism he/she believes in. It is not the liberal, but the liberalism he/she promotes that I object to.

I will allow anybody their beliefs and convictions in peace, no matter how wrong I think they are so long as they allow me my own beliefs and convictions in peace. But when I think progressives/liberals are forcing harm on others I will speak up and prevent the harm if I can. And when somebody tries to force damaging liberalism on me or attempts to punish me because I don't see things as they see them, that's when I will push back as hard as I am able.

First of all, one way we differ is I don't believe in "liberalism". There are policies that are considered liberal, that I support. For instance, a woman's right to choose. Reproductive rights for women.

I support Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Food Stamps, WIC and funding public education, public employees like fire fighters, law enforcement.

"Liberalism" is invented by the RW as a way to demonize other citizens. I think that's wrong.

I don't broad brush Muslims or think it's wrong to allow Syrian refugees to emigrate to the US. What it gets down to is you and I think differently. As American citizens, we have that right. Plenty of people I love happen to be conservatives. We just don't emphasize our differences. We love each other as people, as human beings. I know I'd have their backs and I'm secure they'd have mine.

As for who you think is "punishing" you. I find that pretty curious. What is it you feel "punished" about? And who do you think is "punishing" you?

How is it you think anyone is "forcing you" to accept another's convictions? We are, each of us, free to disagree passionately with each other. And free to love each other, find common ground.

I don't believe I said anybody was. But if you don't believe in liberalism then there is no point in continuing this discussion. I have no problem with what you believe or what you support until what you believe and what you support requires unwilling contribution or participation by me. It is as simple as that. So far I have not met the liberal who would not support the government forcing me to participate in and/or contribute to the liberal's agenda and most would applaud the government punishing me if I do not.

And that in a nutshell is why I hate liberalism. But since you don't believe in it. . . .

 

[Ernie S.]

Fun to push down the stairs? Maybe you actually like the guy enough to continue to have contact with him, however aggressively!

I'd rather push him down the stairs.
He's so totally slinky, I delight in ridiculing him.

Hmm, taking delight in ridicule. That doesn't work for me. It makes me feel bad to do that.

Good for you! I have no idea how old you are, but obviously you still have some youthful idealism left. Congratulations!
I'm 66 and about done kissing ass. If someone irritates me, I'll tell him. If he's an ass hole, I'll tell him. If he's intellectually dishonest, I'll tell him that too. If he's all three, I'll push him down the stairs and laugh at him all the way down.

 

[Dhara]

Fun to push down the stairs? Maybe you actually like the guy enough to continue to have contact with him, however aggressively!

I'd rather push him down the stairs.
He's so totally slinky, I delight in ridiculing him.

Hmm, taking delight in ridicule. That doesn't work for me. It makes me feel bad to do that.

Good for you! I have no idea how old you are, but obviously you still have some youthful idealism left. Congratulations!
I'm 66 and about done kissing ass. If someone irritates me, I'll tell him. If he's an ass hole, I'll tell him. If he's intellectually dishonest, I'll tell him that too. If he's all three, I'll push him down the stairs and laugh at him all the way down.

OK. I hear you. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Dhara]

OK. We see things differently.

Probably so. But as long as political correctness requires us to see liberalism as something nobel and honorable even as it does serious harm to our society and form of government, it is a shame that so many see things differently.

Sorry to hear you say that, (as a lifelong, liberal). As far as nobility is concerned, if I can see something honorable and noble in conservative people regardless of their political opinions, I wonder why you can't see that in liberals.

It all comes from caring, and feeling from the bottom of each of our hearts that the policies coming out of compromise between the partiies is the way to accomplish great benefit for our country.

IMO, good heart doesn't have a political position. We lose that everytime we objectify each other instead of connecting as fellow human beings and American citizens.

Just my opinion.

Actually I do see nobility as human beings in many liberals I know personally--some I would trust with anything I own including my life. I have become friends with a number of people who identify themselves as liberals in this strange internet world. The difference between you and me is that I can separate the liberal from the liberalism he/she believes in. It is not the liberal, but the liberalism he/she promotes that I object to.

I will allow anybody their beliefs and convictions in peace, no matter how wrong I think they are so long as they allow me my own beliefs and convictions in peace. But when I think progressives/liberals are forcing harm on others I will speak up and prevent the harm if I can. And when somebody tries to force damaging liberalism on me or attempts to punish me because I don't see things as they see them, that's when I will push back as hard as I am able.

First of all, one way we differ is I don't believe in "liberalism". There are policies that are considered liberal, that I support. For instance, a woman's right to choose. Reproductive rights for women.

I support Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Food Stamps, WIC and funding public education, public employees like fire fighters, law enforcement.

"Liberalism" is invented by the RW as a way to demonize other citizens. I think that's wrong.

I don't broad brush Muslims or think it's wrong to allow Syrian refugees to emigrate to the US. What it gets down to is you and I think differently. As American citizens, we have that right. Plenty of people I love happen to be conservatives. We just don't emphasize our differences. We love each other as people, as human beings. I know I'd have their backs and I'm secure they'd have mine.

As for who you think is "punishing" you. I find that pretty curious. What is it you feel "punished" about? And who do you think is "punishing" you?

How is it you think anyone is "forcing you" to accept another's convictions? We are, each of us, free to disagree passionately with each other. And free to love each other, find common ground.

I don't believe I said anybody was. But if you don't believe in liberalism then there is no point in continuing this discussion. I have no problem with what you believe or what you support until what you believe and what you support requires unwilling contribution or participation by me. It is as simple as that. So far I have not met the liberal who would not support the government forcing me to participate in and/or contribute to the liberal's agenda and most would applaud the government punishing me if I do not.

And that in a nutshell is why I hate liberalism. But since you don't believe in it. . . .

Hey, I still don't understand how you feel forced to participate in something you don't want. If you mean something like, "I'm forced to participate in war because my tax dollars support the military", then maybe I understand. That's me having to participate in something I don't support.

But no one is "forcing me". I willingly pay taxes because they also pay for things I need. Libraries, schools, police and fire departments, roads and bridges. We all have to contribute to things we don't necessarily agree with or support as the price of citizenship in this great nation.

Nothing to do with your belief in "liberalism".

I just looked up "liberalism". Here's the definition I found. It doesn't sound like a bad thing to me.

1. 
   Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.
   Liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
   Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaLiberalism
   Wikipedia

 

[Dhara]

And then there is this one:

Liberalism, political doctrine that takes protecting and enhancing the freedom of the individual to be the central problem of politics. Liberals typically believe thatgovernment is necessary to protect individuals from being harmed by others; but they also recognize that government itself can pose a threat to liberty. As the revolutionary American pamphleteer Thomas Paine expressed it in “Common Sense” (1776), government is at best “a necessary evil.” Laws, judges, and police are needed to secure the individual’s life and liberty, but their coercive power may also be turned against him. The problem, then, is to devise a system that gives government the power necessary to protect individual liberty but also prevents those who govern from abusing that power.
liberalism | politics

 

[ChrisL]

It has nothing to do with our attitude toward one doing harm. It has everything to do with not allowing others to deliberately or inadvertently do harm to us. And when it comes to those with power to influence and/or pass legislation or write laws/regulations that bind us, it really does come down to a matter of self defense.

OK. We see things differently.

Probably so. But as long as political correctness requires us to see liberalism as something nobel and honorable even as it does serious harm to our society and form of government, it is a shame that so many see things differently.

Sorry to hear you say that, (as a lifelong, liberal). As far as nobility is concerned, if I can see something honorable and noble in conservative people regardless of their political opinions, I wonder why you can't see that in liberals.

It all comes from caring, and feeling from the bottom of each of our hearts that the policies coming out of compromise between the partiies is the way to accomplish great benefit for our country.

IMO, good heart doesn't have a political position. We lose that everytime we objectify each other instead of connecting as fellow human beings and American citizens.

Just my opinion.

Actually I do see nobility as human beings in many liberals I know personally--some I would trust with anything I own including my life. I have become friends with a number of people who identify themselves as liberals in this strange internet world. The difference between you and me is that I can separate the liberal from the liberalism he/she believes in. It is not the liberal, but the liberalism he/she promotes that I object to.

I will allow anybody their beliefs and convictions in peace, no matter how wrong I think they are so long as they allow me my own beliefs and convictions in peace. But when I think progressives/liberals are forcing harm on others I will speak up and prevent the harm if I can. And when somebody tries to force damaging liberalism on me or attempts to punish me because I don't see things as they see them, that's when I will push back as hard as I am able.

First of all, one way we differ is I don't believe in "liberalism". There are policies that are considered liberal, that I support. For instance, a woman's right to choose. Reproductive rights for women.

I support Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Food Stamps, WIC and funding public education, public employees like fire fighters, law enforcement.

"Liberalism" is invented by the RW as a way to demonize other citizens. I think that's wrong.

I don't broad brush Muslims or think it's wrong to allow Syrian refugees to emigrate to the US. What it gets down to is you and I think differently. As American citizens, we have that right. Plenty of people I love happen to be conservatives. We just don't emphasize our differences. We love each other as people, as human beings. I know I'd have their backs and I'm secure they'd have mine.

As for who you think is "punishing" you. I find that pretty curious. What is it you feel "punished" about? And who do you think is "punishing" you?

How is it you think anyone is "forcing you" to accept another's convictions? We are, each of us, free to disagree passionately with each other. And free to love each other, find common ground.

I agree with most of your post except for the refugees part. I want those resources (which are limited) to go to our own citizens. I also don't see a need to invite "trouble" into our country because of some "PC" sense of obligation to people from other countries. Most of these coming here are likely to be unskilled or low skilled and are going to use resources that should be spent on our own. Just my opinion on that matter.

 

[ChrisL]

OK. We see things differently.

Probably so. But as long as political correctness requires us to see liberalism as something nobel and honorable even as it does serious harm to our society and form of government, it is a shame that so many see things differently.

Sorry to hear you say that, (as a lifelong, liberal). As far as nobility is concerned, if I can see something honorable and noble in conservative people regardless of their political opinions, I wonder why you can't see that in liberals.

It all comes from caring, and feeling from the bottom of each of our hearts that the policies coming out of compromise between the partiies is the way to accomplish great benefit for our country.

IMO, good heart doesn't have a political position. We lose that everytime we objectify each other instead of connecting as fellow human beings and American citizens.

Just my opinion.

Actually I do see nobility as human beings in many liberals I know personally--some I would trust with anything I own including my life. I have become friends with a number of people who identify themselves as liberals in this strange internet world. The difference between you and me is that I can separate the liberal from the liberalism he/she believes in. It is not the liberal, but the liberalism he/she promotes that I object to.

I will allow anybody their beliefs and convictions in peace, no matter how wrong I think they are so long as they allow me my own beliefs and convictions in peace. But when I think progressives/liberals are forcing harm on others I will speak up and prevent the harm if I can. And when somebody tries to force damaging liberalism on me or attempts to punish me because I don't see things as they see them, that's when I will push back as hard as I am able.

First of all, one way we differ is I don't believe in "liberalism". There are policies that are considered liberal, that I support. For instance, a woman's right to choose. Reproductive rights for women.

I support Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Food Stamps, WIC and funding public education, public employees like fire fighters, law enforcement.

"Liberalism" is invented by the RW as a way to demonize other citizens. I think that's wrong.

I don't broad brush Muslims or think it's wrong to allow Syrian refugees to emigrate to the US. What it gets down to is you and I think differently. As American citizens, we have that right. Plenty of people I love happen to be conservatives. We just don't emphasize our differences. We love each other as people, as human beings. I know I'd have their backs and I'm secure they'd have mine.

As for who you think is "punishing" you. I find that pretty curious. What is it you feel "punished" about? And who do you think is "punishing" you?

How is it you think anyone is "forcing you" to accept another's convictions? We are, each of us, free to disagree passionately with each other. And free to love each other, find common ground.

I don't believe I said anybody was. But if you don't believe in liberalism then there is no point in continuing this discussion. I have no problem with what you believe or what you support until what you believe and what you support requires unwilling contribution or participation by me. It is as simple as that. So far I have not met the liberal who would not support the government forcing me to participate in and/or contribute to the liberal's agenda and most would applaud the government punishing me if I do not.

And that in a nutshell is why I hate liberalism. But since you don't believe in it. . . .

I am more of a mixed bag and support some views from each side but I'm totally against others. I could never side completely with either ideology.

 

[Dhara]

Probably so. But as long as political correctness requires us to see liberalism as something nobel and honorable even as it does serious harm to our society and form of government, it is a shame that so many see things differently.

Sorry to hear you say that, (as a lifelong, liberal). As far as nobility is concerned, if I can see something honorable and noble in conservative people regardless of their political opinions, I wonder why you can't see that in liberals.

It all comes from caring, and feeling from the bottom of each of our hearts that the policies coming out of compromise between the partiies is the way to accomplish great benefit for our country.

IMO, good heart doesn't have a political position. We lose that everytime we objectify each other instead of connecting as fellow human beings and American citizens.

Just my opinion.

Actually I do see nobility as human beings in many liberals I know personally--some I would trust with anything I own including my life. I have become friends with a number of people who identify themselves as liberals in this strange internet world. The difference between you and me is that I can separate the liberal from the liberalism he/she believes in. It is not the liberal, but the liberalism he/she promotes that I object to.

I will allow anybody their beliefs and convictions in peace, no matter how wrong I think they are so long as they allow me my own beliefs and convictions in peace. But when I think progressives/liberals are forcing harm on others I will speak up and prevent the harm if I can. And when somebody tries to force damaging liberalism on me or attempts to punish me because I don't see things as they see them, that's when I will push back as hard as I am able.

First of all, one way we differ is I don't believe in "liberalism". There are policies that are considered liberal, that I support. For instance, a woman's right to choose. Reproductive rights for women.

I support Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Food Stamps, WIC and funding public education, public employees like fire fighters, law enforcement.

"Liberalism" is invented by the RW as a way to demonize other citizens. I think that's wrong.

I don't broad brush Muslims or think it's wrong to allow Syrian refugees to emigrate to the US. What it gets down to is you and I think differently. As American citizens, we have that right. Plenty of people I love happen to be conservatives. We just don't emphasize our differences. We love each other as people, as human beings. I know I'd have their backs and I'm secure they'd have mine.

As for who you think is "punishing" you. I find that pretty curious. What is it you feel "punished" about? And who do you think is "punishing" you?

How is it you think anyone is "forcing you" to accept another's convictions? We are, each of us, free to disagree passionately with each other. And free to love each other, find common ground.

I don't believe I said anybody was. But if you don't believe in liberalism then there is no point in continuing this discussion. I have no problem with what you believe or what you support until what you believe and what you support requires unwilling contribution or participation by me. It is as simple as that. So far I have not met the liberal who would not support the government forcing me to participate in and/or contribute to the liberal's agenda and most would applaud the government punishing me if I do not.

And that in a nutshell is why I hate liberalism. But since you don't believe in it. . . .

I am more of a mixed bag and support some views from each side but I'm totally against others. I could never side completely with either ideology.

I don't consider the two political parties as "ideologies".

 

[ChrisL]

Sorry to hear you say that, (as a lifelong, liberal). As far as nobility is concerned, if I can see something honorable and noble in conservative people regardless of their political opinions, I wonder why you can't see that in liberals.

It all comes from caring, and feeling from the bottom of each of our hearts that the policies coming out of compromise between the partiies is the way to accomplish great benefit for our country.

IMO, good heart doesn't have a political position. We lose that everytime we objectify each other instead of connecting as fellow human beings and American citizens.

Just my opinion.

Actually I do see nobility as human beings in many liberals I know personally--some I would trust with anything I own including my life. I have become friends with a number of people who identify themselves as liberals in this strange internet world. The difference between you and me is that I can separate the liberal from the liberalism he/she believes in. It is not the liberal, but the liberalism he/she promotes that I object to.

I will allow anybody their beliefs and convictions in peace, no matter how wrong I think they are so long as they allow me my own beliefs and convictions in peace. But when I think progressives/liberals are forcing harm on others I will speak up and prevent the harm if I can. And when somebody tries to force damaging liberalism on me or attempts to punish me because I don't see things as they see them, that's when I will push back as hard as I am able.

First of all, one way we differ is I don't believe in "liberalism". There are policies that are considered liberal, that I support. For instance, a woman's right to choose. Reproductive rights for women.

I support Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Food Stamps, WIC and funding public education, public employees like fire fighters, law enforcement.

"Liberalism" is invented by the RW as a way to demonize other citizens. I think that's wrong.

I don't broad brush Muslims or think it's wrong to allow Syrian refugees to emigrate to the US. What it gets down to is you and I think differently. As American citizens, we have that right. Plenty of people I love happen to be conservatives. We just don't emphasize our differences. We love each other as people, as human beings. I know I'd have their backs and I'm secure they'd have mine.

As for who you think is "punishing" you. I find that pretty curious. What is it you feel "punished" about? And who do you think is "punishing" you?

How is it you think anyone is "forcing you" to accept another's convictions? We are, each of us, free to disagree passionately with each other. And free to love each other, find common ground.

I don't believe I said anybody was. But if you don't believe in liberalism then there is no point in continuing this discussion. I have no problem with what you believe or what you support until what you believe and what you support requires unwilling contribution or participation by me. It is as simple as that. So far I have not met the liberal who would not support the government forcing me to participate in and/or contribute to the liberal's agenda and most would applaud the government punishing me if I do not.

And that in a nutshell is why I hate liberalism. But since you don't believe in it. . . .

I am more of a mixed bag and support some views from each side but I'm totally against others. I could never side completely with either ideology.

I don't consider the two political parties as "ideologies".

Foxy and I were talking liberal versus conservative, which are two ideologies.

 

[Dhara]

Actually I do see nobility as human beings in many liberals I know personally--some I would trust with anything I own including my life. I have become friends with a number of people who identify themselves as liberals in this strange internet world. The difference between you and me is that I can separate the liberal from the liberalism he/she believes in. It is not the liberal, but the liberalism he/she promotes that I object to.

I will allow anybody their beliefs and convictions in peace, no matter how wrong I think they are so long as they allow me my own beliefs and convictions in peace. But when I think progressives/liberals are forcing harm on others I will speak up and prevent the harm if I can. And when somebody tries to force damaging liberalism on me or attempts to punish me because I don't see things as they see them, that's when I will push back as hard as I am able.

First of all, one way we differ is I don't believe in "liberalism". There are policies that are considered liberal, that I support. For instance, a woman's right to choose. Reproductive rights for women.

I support Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Food Stamps, WIC and funding public education, public employees like fire fighters, law enforcement.

"Liberalism" is invented by the RW as a way to demonize other citizens. I think that's wrong.

I don't broad brush Muslims or think it's wrong to allow Syrian refugees to emigrate to the US. What it gets down to is you and I think differently. As American citizens, we have that right. Plenty of people I love happen to be conservatives. We just don't emphasize our differences. We love each other as people, as human beings. I know I'd have their backs and I'm secure they'd have mine.

As for who you think is "punishing" you. I find that pretty curious. What is it you feel "punished" about? And who do you think is "punishing" you?

How is it you think anyone is "forcing you" to accept another's convictions? We are, each of us, free to disagree passionately with each other. And free to love each other, find common ground.

I don't believe I said anybody was. But if you don't believe in liberalism then there is no point in continuing this discussion. I have no problem with what you believe or what you support until what you believe and what you support requires unwilling contribution or participation by me. It is as simple as that. So far I have not met the liberal who would not support the government forcing me to participate in and/or contribute to the liberal's agenda and most would applaud the government punishing me if I do not.

And that in a nutshell is why I hate liberalism. But since you don't believe in it. . . .

I am more of a mixed bag and support some views from each side but I'm totally against others. I could never side completely with either ideology.

I don't consider the two political parties as "ideologies".

Foxy and I were talking liberal versus conservative, which are two ideologies.

I don't consider either of them ideologies. People vote for leaders and policies, not ideologies.

 

[ChrisL]

First of all, one way we differ is I don't believe in "liberalism". There are policies that are considered liberal, that I support. For instance, a woman's right to choose. Reproductive rights for women.

I support Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Food Stamps, WIC and funding public education, public employees like fire fighters, law enforcement.

"Liberalism" is invented by the RW as a way to demonize other citizens. I think that's wrong.

I don't broad brush Muslims or think it's wrong to allow Syrian refugees to emigrate to the US. What it gets down to is you and I think differently. As American citizens, we have that right. Plenty of people I love happen to be conservatives. We just don't emphasize our differences. We love each other as people, as human beings. I know I'd have their backs and I'm secure they'd have mine.

As for who you think is "punishing" you. I find that pretty curious. What is it you feel "punished" about? And who do you think is "punishing" you?

How is it you think anyone is "forcing you" to accept another's convictions? We are, each of us, free to disagree passionately with each other. And free to love each other, find common ground.

I don't believe I said anybody was. But if you don't believe in liberalism then there is no point in continuing this discussion. I have no problem with what you believe or what you support until what you believe and what you support requires unwilling contribution or participation by me. It is as simple as that. So far I have not met the liberal who would not support the government forcing me to participate in and/or contribute to the liberal's agenda and most would applaud the government punishing me if I do not.

And that in a nutshell is why I hate liberalism. But since you don't believe in it. . . .

I am more of a mixed bag and support some views from each side but I'm totally against others. I could never side completely with either ideology.

I don't consider the two political parties as "ideologies".

Foxy and I were talking liberal versus conservative, which are two ideologies.

I don't consider either of them ideologies. People vote for leaders and policies, not ideologies.

Well, I'm sorry, but that is what liberal and conservative are. They are not parties. They are ideologies or a set of beliefs.

 

[ChrisL]

First of all, one way we differ is I don't believe in "liberalism". There are policies that are considered liberal, that I support. For instance, a woman's right to choose. Reproductive rights for women.

I support Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Food Stamps, WIC and funding public education, public employees like fire fighters, law enforcement.

"Liberalism" is invented by the RW as a way to demonize other citizens. I think that's wrong.

I don't broad brush Muslims or think it's wrong to allow Syrian refugees to emigrate to the US. What it gets down to is you and I think differently. As American citizens, we have that right. Plenty of people I love happen to be conservatives. We just don't emphasize our differences. We love each other as people, as human beings. I know I'd have their backs and I'm secure they'd have mine.

As for who you think is "punishing" you. I find that pretty curious. What is it you feel "punished" about? And who do you think is "punishing" you?

How is it you think anyone is "forcing you" to accept another's convictions? We are, each of us, free to disagree passionately with each other. And free to love each other, find common ground.

I don't believe I said anybody was. But if you don't believe in liberalism then there is no point in continuing this discussion. I have no problem with what you believe or what you support until what you believe and what you support requires unwilling contribution or participation by me. It is as simple as that. So far I have not met the liberal who would not support the government forcing me to participate in and/or contribute to the liberal's agenda and most would applaud the government punishing me if I do not.

And that in a nutshell is why I hate liberalism. But since you don't believe in it. . . .

I am more of a mixed bag and support some views from each side but I'm totally against others. I could never side completely with either ideology.

I don't consider the two political parties as "ideologies".

Foxy and I were talking liberal versus conservative, which are two ideologies.

I don't consider either of them ideologies. People vote for leaders and policies, not ideologies.

If I had been talking about the parties, I would have said Democrats/Republicans.

 

[Dhara]

I don't believe I said anybody was. But if you don't believe in liberalism then there is no point in continuing this discussion. I have no problem with what you believe or what you support until what you believe and what you support requires unwilling contribution or participation by me. It is as simple as that. So far I have not met the liberal who would not support the government forcing me to participate in and/or contribute to the liberal's agenda and most would applaud the government punishing me if I do not.

And that in a nutshell is why I hate liberalism. But since you don't believe in it. . . .

I am more of a mixed bag and support some views from each side but I'm totally against others. I could never side completely with either ideology.

I don't consider the two political parties as "ideologies".

Foxy and I were talking liberal versus conservative, which are two ideologies.

I don't consider either of them ideologies. People vote for leaders and policies, not ideologies.

If I had been talking about the parties, I would have said Democrats/Republicans.

I'm talking about parties, not made up "ideologies".

 

[ChrisL]

I am more of a mixed bag and support some views from each side but I'm totally against others. I could never side completely with either ideology.

I don't consider the two political parties as "ideologies".

Foxy and I were talking liberal versus conservative, which are two ideologies.

I don't consider either of them ideologies. People vote for leaders and policies, not ideologies.

If I had been talking about the parties, I would have said Democrats/Republicans.

I'm talking about parties, not made up "ideologies".

Foxy and I were talking about ideologies, liberal ideology and conservative ideology. Liberalism and conservatism are belief systems or ideologies. That is what we were talking about. I wasn't talking about the parties.

 

[Dhara]

I don't consider the two political parties as "ideologies".

Foxy and I were talking liberal versus conservative, which are two ideologies.

I don't consider either of them ideologies. People vote for leaders and policies, not ideologies.

If I had been talking about the parties, I would have said Democrats/Republicans.

I'm talking about parties, not made up "ideologies".

Foxy and I were talking about ideologies, liberal ideology and conservative ideology. Liberalism and conservatism are belief systems or ideologies. That is what we were talking about. I wasn't talking about the parties.

OK. I see it differently, that's all. I'd rather discuss the merits of this or that policy than concretize other people into "ideologies".

 

[ChrisL]

Foxy and I were talking liberal versus conservative, which are two ideologies.

I don't consider either of them ideologies. People vote for leaders and policies, not ideologies.

If I had been talking about the parties, I would have said Democrats/Republicans.

I'm talking about parties, not made up "ideologies".

Foxy and I were talking about ideologies, liberal ideology and conservative ideology. Liberalism and conservatism are belief systems or ideologies. That is what we were talking about. I wasn't talking about the parties.

OK. I see it differently, that's all. I'd rather discuss the merits of this or that policy than concretize other people into "ideologies".

Some people vote strictly along party or ideological lines. For instance, some liberals would never even consider voting for a candidate who was anti abortion or anti gay marriage even if they agree with some of the candidate's other views.

 

[Dhara]

I don't consider either of them ideologies. People vote for leaders and policies, not ideologies.

If I had been talking about the parties, I would have said Democrats/Republicans.

I'm talking about parties, not made up "ideologies".

Foxy and I were talking about ideologies, liberal ideology and conservative ideology. Liberalism and conservatism are belief systems or ideologies. That is what we were talking about. I wasn't talking about the parties.

OK. I see it differently, that's all. I'd rather discuss the merits of this or that policy than concretize other people into "ideologies".

Some people vote strictly along party or ideological lines. For instance, some liberals would never even consider voting for a candidate who was anti abortion or anti gay marriage even if they agree with some of the candidate's other views.

Yes, I know that's the way that you want to parse the discussion. Me, I'm tired of relating to categories I'd rather connect with other people who want to discuss polices on their merit.

Bi-partisanship makes the country stronger. When the parties find common ground and vote the people's interest, I like it.

 

[ChrisL]

If I had been talking about the parties, I would have said Democrats/Republicans.

I'm talking about parties, not made up "ideologies".

Foxy and I were talking about ideologies, liberal ideology and conservative ideology. Liberalism and conservatism are belief systems or ideologies. That is what we were talking about. I wasn't talking about the parties.

OK. I see it differently, that's all. I'd rather discuss the merits of this or that policy than concretize other people into "ideologies".

Some people vote strictly along party or ideological lines. For instance, some liberals would never even consider voting for a candidate who was anti abortion or anti gay marriage even if they agree with some of the candidate's other views.

Yes, I know that's the way that you want to parse the discussion. Me, I'm tired of relating to categories I'd rather connect with other people who want to discuss polices on their merit.

Bi-partisanship makes the country stronger. When the parties find common ground and vote the people's interest, I like it.

Okay, try this. Can you tell me of any democrat candidates who are running on a conservative ideology? What about any republican candidates who espouse liberal views?