Zone1 Why do Protestants always believe their pastors rather than the 2000 year old CHURCH Christ established?

[Meriweather]

Sermonizing was not a hallmark of the primitive Christians, either. It wasn’t a regular occurrence at least once a week delivered by the same person to the same passive audience. And it wasn’t cultivated from the rhetorical structure of the Greek and Roman orators. The apostles preached sporadically addressing specific issues. And they didn’t pattern their sermons on the three-point or five-point rhetoric of the pagans.

Paul never spoke out?

 

[norwegen]

On the tithing issue, Jesus taught:

Matthew 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Here Jesus calls the scribes and Pharisees hypocrites for omitting the weightier matters of the law. He does mention that they pay tithes but they have omitted judgement, mercy and faith. However, in the end, he tells them that the weightier matters of the law they ought to have done, and then he states, "and not to leave the other undone". So Jesus did believe that tithing was a less weightier matter of the law than judgement, mercy, and faith but did recognize that it was still a matter of the law and should still be practiced.

You know who practiced that law?

Israel.

It was essentially a tax to support the Levites who had no inheritance in Canaan (Num 18:21-31). And it was paid to sponsor religious festivals as a festival tithe (Deut 14:22-27). And it was paid every three years to support orphans, strangers, and widows (Deut 14:28-29; 26:12-13).

Do the math. These tithes amounted to 23.3% of an Israelite's income. If Christians were compelled to pay tithes like the Israelites did, I'd hazard that many of them would drop out of the church.

And the tax was produce - crops and livestock - unless too burdensome to travel with. Then it could be converted to currency.

And don't bark about Abraham giving a tenth of his wealth to Melchizedek, because it wasn't his wealth he gave from. He gave out of the spoils he took after a battle. And as far as we know, this was the only time that Abraham ever tithed.

 

[norwegen]

Name them.

Again?

 

[norwegen]

For example, wasn't the use of incense associated with Jesus' birth early on? Was that pagan?

It wasn't used for any ritual.

 

[Meriweather]

Again?

Look at religious practices throughout the world in Biblical times. Have you noticed, no one ever says, "the pagans copied..." It is always the Jews or Catholics copied... It gets old and it is inaccurate. Look at history, look at fusion. It has been found that cultures with absolutely no contact with each other came up with things (gasp) all on their own.

Do you know what you are copying? Old accusations against Catholics. Why not spell out the differences? Those are not hard to find, probably easier.

 

[Meriweather]

It wasn't used for any ritual.

Sigh. Try a little more research.

 

[norwegen]

Sigh. Try a little more research.

When you have no reason, all you are is defensive.

 

[norwegen]

Protestants are no better than Catholics. I'm not singling out any one group.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

People who claim to see no good in Catholicism are either lying or deceived by lies or a little of both

There are many fine people who are Catholic. But there are also many fine people I know who are Muslims or Hindu. But that doesn't make it God's Church

Neither does idolatry

 

[Meriweather]

When you have no reason, all you are is defensive.

It's not defensive, it is more like giving up. You know so little we aren't even in the same ballpark. It is one thing to discuss different perspectives.

One of my favorite pieces of advice is, "Don't pursue the lie." I know there is a lot of misinformation on line, but you just took the cake. I am not going to pursue the lie. It is pointless.

 

[Meriweather]

Protestants are no better than Catholics. I'm not singling out any one group.

And now you are insulting my relatives. And you act like I am supposed to feel better. Besides, I suspect/assume you are equally wrong about non-Catholic Christians. And as shallow.

 

[Meriweather]

Neither does idolatry

Catch a clue. Catholics do not believe Buddhists are idolators. Most Buddhists have no belief in God.

 

[BS Filter]

Not even close to what I believe or that it was "all" Christ gave his life for.

So how do you believe that you are saved from eternal darkness?

 

[ding]

There are many fine people who are Catholic. But there are also many fine people I know who are Muslims or Hindu. But that doesn't make it God's Church

Neither does idolatry

View attachment 758266

I'm curious what you think God's church looks like.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I'm curious what you think God's church looks like.

Look to the daily lives of Jesus and His apostles.
Satan is the God of this world. His counterfeit church was always destined to be large and powerful. God's Church has always been a persecuted "little flock". It always will be until the Return

 

[ding]

So how do you believe that you are saved from eternal darkness?

Here is a detailed description which should answer all questions on Catholic thought on this subject.

The Key Differences Between Salvation and Redemption
Salvation and redemption are both important concepts in the Catholic Faith and there are key differences that exist between the two. Jesus’ sacrificial death on the cross is the act of redemption that forgave us from our sins and spared us from a life of eternal damnation. Redemption is just the first step of salvation and the first part of our life as a child of God.

Redemption is defined as the process of restoring man from the bondage of sin to the liberty of the children of God through the satisfactions and merits of Christ. The word redemption is derived from the Latin Vulgate word “redemptio,” is a rendering of the Hebrew word “kopher” and the Greek word “lytron” which means ransom price in the Old Testament.

Redemption involves both God and man. On God’s part, divine honor has been repaired and divine wrath has been appeased. On our part as sinners redemption means deliverance from the bondage of sin and the restoration of our relationship with God.

In our natural human states we are all sinful and unworthy of a life in heaven. Regardless of the good works we do on earth, we are unable to meet God’s divine standards and we are fated to face a final judgment that will determine where we will spend eternity, either in heaven or hell.

However, Our Heavenly Father is a merciful and loving God and He wants us to be redeemed from a life of eternal damnation. He overlooked our faults and sinfulness and saved us through grace.

The meaning of redemption in the Catholic Faith is the act by which Jesus saved us from the slavery of sin, this act is his sacrificial death on the cross. Redemption involves going from one state to another. In the Catholic context, it is Christ liberating us from an old life of sin to freedom of a new life in him.

Our lives as children of God does not begin and end in redemption. After we are redeemed from our sins and reconciled with God, we begin the process of salvation. In the Council of Trent, salvation from sin begins with the grace of God touching a sinner’s heart and calling him to repent. This grace is a product of the love and mercy of God and it is our choice whether to receive this grace or reject it. If we choose to receive grace, we choose a life aligned with the will of God but if we don’t receive it, we remain in a life of sin.

After receiving grace, we as sinners are disposed for salvation from sin. From this, we believe in the revelation and promises of God, we fear God’s justice, we hope in His mercy, we trust that God will be merciful to us for Christ’s sake, we begin to love God as the source of all justice and we begin to hate sin.

Justification comes after our disposition for salvation and this is not just simply the remission of our sins but the sanctification and renewal of our inner selves through our voluntary reception of God’s grace and gifts. This inner transformation will manifest in the way we live our lives and how we treat others.

Salvation therefore is not a one-time event. It is not simply accepting the grace of God, it involves constantly choosing a Christian way of life and following the teachings of the church.

When Christ died on the cross he did this to redeem ALL of mankind. To be redeemed by Christ is an invitation to salvation. Salvation is for each INDIVIDUAL to either accept of reject God's gifts. Salvation and redemption are beautiful gifts that we are all very blessed to receive.

Important Principles to Maintain Salvation:​

• 
  Love God: Loving God is said to be the first and greatest commandment. We should not allow anything to get in the way of our devotion to our Heavenly Father. We demonstrate our love for God by following His commands and by acknowledging Him as the source of everything.
• 
  Love your neighbors: Our neighbors are the people around us, our family, friends and even people we don’t know. To love our neighbors means showing them respect, compassion and forgiveness regardless of their race and religion. God loves us all equally as His children.
• 
  Live a righteous life: The Bible is a good source of wisdom as to how we should live a morally upright life. God wants us to experience lasting peace and this can only be achieved if we live according to His ways.
• 
  Repent: When we choose the path of sin, we are isolated from God and we begin to feel a lack of peace and a sense of guilt. We can only return to our former state of grace if we repent and ask for forgiveness. Repentance is not simply confessing our sins, though. It is genuinely resolving not to commit the same mistakes.

The Key Differences Between Salvation and Redemption

Salvation and redemption are at the core of our Catholic Faith. Are these two concepts interchangeable? What are their key differences?

www.catholicfaithstore.com

 

[ding]

Look to the daily lives of Jesus and His apostles.
Satan is the God of this world. His counterfeit church was always destined to be large and powerful. God's Church has always been a persecuted "little flock". It always will be until the Return

Can you tell me which churches aren't God's church?

 

[Ace Nova]

There are a TON of things that Catholics do and say that have NO references in the bible:

1. The "our father". Doesn't exist in the bible.
2. The "hail Mary." Nowhere in the bible does it say Mary is holy, but they say she is... "Holy Mary, mother of God..." Mary is NOT holy.
3. They worship the damn pope. NOWHERE is the word POPE in the bible.
4. They have "confessionals" where you so say confess your sins for forgiveness. The bible contradicts this practice specifically stating that GOD and ONLY GOD can forgive your sins and you must ask HIM for forgiveness. Not another sinner.
5. They teach people that saying the rosary some arbitrary number of times will forgive sins. This is directly against the bibles teachings that state that ONLY asking God for forgiveness and repenting will you be forgiven. No Earthly behaviors can get you forgiven OTHER than asking for forgiveness from God.

Catholics are some weird people with some weird ways.

1. Incorrect.

Matthew6:9-14

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]
but deliver us from the evil one.[b]’

14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

2. Incorrect.

Luke 1:28 (KJV)

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

3. Source? I have yet to meet a single Catholic that "worships the Pope".

4. James 5:16

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

5. Incorrect. Saying the rosary is part of "penance" - Taken from the word REPENTANCE (Repenting from one's sins)

James 5:16
Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

Luke 15:7
Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

Luke 24:47
And that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

2 Peter 3-9

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Revelation 2:5
Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

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[Meriweather]

So how do you believe that you are saved from eternal darkness?

Life in Christ. In Catholicism, "Redeemed" and "Salvation" come together. Jesus' death on the cross redeemed mankind. We were no longer separated from God. Through this came salvation, that is grace touched our lives and that grace (if it is our free will) that empowers us to love God and neighbor and use the talents God gave us to serve Him and our fellow man. This grace is available to us every day to put to use (or to work) for God's will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. Grace gives us the power to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (or awe of God, His work, His promises).

Salvation is of God, and it is His grace that prompts within us the desire to complete the process of salvation. (Keep in mind the Parable of the Talents). Also keep in mind that without God's help (grace) their can be no progress in our goodness and love; no progress in serving God.

Serving God is Kingdom living and it is here, in our present life, that we learn to serve God and His people. Hell has no wish and no use for the servants of God. We are already alive in the Kingdom of God, which Christ promised was in the reach of everyone. That is what redemption was/is all about--no more separation from God.

This is why the Protestant accusation of Catholics "earning one's way to heaven" makes no sense to us. With God's grace what we are working towards is our purification in love and goodness so that we are made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Hell is the least of our concerns. Making the best use of the grace God bestows upon us is our greatest concern. Preparing oneself for heaven is not trying to "earn one's way to heaven." That is already ours. The plan is to enter clothed in the proper wedding garment of goodness and love. That means working on being the best possible version of self, the best possible servant, that we can be. For we love our Father.

 

[Ace Nova]

Look to the daily lives of Jesus and His apostles.
Satan is the God of this world. His counterfeit church was always destined to be large and powerful. God's Church has always been a persecuted "little flock". It always will be until the Return

Matthew 28:16-20

16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

If "All authority in heaven and on earth" was given to Jesus, then how can Satan be "The God of this world"?

If God's Church is a "little flock" then why would Jesus instruct his Apostles to "make disciples of all nations?"