Zone1 Why do Protestants always believe their pastors rather than the 2000 year old CHURCH Christ established?

[Meriweather]

Catholics were first to usurp apostolic tradition. Priests, tithes, etc. were not apostolic.

Catholics don't tithe. In fact, with the twelve apostles Jesus did create a special priesthood, apart from the priesthood each Catholic receives upon being baptized. If you prefer 'clergy' to 'priest' then use clergy or minister or whatever.
The point: All Catholics are priests, prophets, kings. We have a special priesthood for those who shoulder additional responsibilities as did the Apostles.
Semantics. So don't make it into mud to sling.

 

[norwegen]

Catholics don't tithe. In fact, with the twelve apostles Jesus did create a special priesthood, apart from the priesthood each Catholic receives upon being baptized. If you prefer 'clergy' to 'priest' then use clergy or minister or whatever.
The point: All Catholics are priests, prophets, kings. We have a special priesthood for those who shoulder additional responsibilities as did the Apostles.
Semantics. So don't make it into mud to sling.

Cyprian was a bishop of Carthage, sainted as recognized in both the Eastern and Western churches. He argued that the clergy should be supported by member giving.

Granted, taxes supported the clergy in the Roman Empire at first, thanks to Constantine, but soon private giving supported it, first paid to the bishop, then eventually to parish priests.

Tithing, or compelled regular giving, is not biblical. It promises blessing but only oppresses the poor.

And no one in the church is a prophet or a king. And if all are priests, then the paid priests need to step off the lectern and join the ranks of the priesthood.

 

[norwegen]

As the church possessed more and more land, a tenth of one's produce came to be called a rent-charge, and was legally binding.

It may not be a legal requirement now, but failing to give diminishes one's standing in the church. The church still guilts people, or compels them to tithe.

 

[Meriweather]

Tithing, or compelled regular giving, is not biblical.

And neither is the practice of the Catholic Church.

 

[Meriweather]

And no one in the church is a prophet or a king. And if all are priests, then the paid priests need to step off the lectern and join the ranks of the priesthood.

That is your belief and your modern practice.

 

[Meriweather]

The church still guilts people, or compels them to tithe.

It does not. You would know that if you were Catholic.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Jesus promised

"I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it." (Mt 16:18)

I have read the entire Bible and have studied Catholicism and there is nothing contradictory between those 2. But people outside the Catholic Church have been taught to believe (by their human pastors) that there are massive contradictions between those 2 so they unthinkingly believe there are. Why do Protestants choose to believe some non=Catholic over a Catholic? Why is their protestant pastor more believable than the 2000 year old Church?

While not all Catholics understand their Faith, I happen to be one who does. I have knowledge of such things as:

The Ark of the Covenant (OT) ..and how it connects to the present day Tabernacles that house the consecrated Hosts (inside Catholic Churches), so that just as in the old days w/ the Ark of the Covenant and the light perpetually burning in the temple for the Israelites to signify the Presence of God, the tabernacles inside Catholic Churches now house Christ Himself. Transubstantiation is in the Bible.. See where Jesus held the Passover and said that all who ate his flesh, drank his blood (OMG, say the protestants) will have eternal life.. This is the HOST given Catholics at Mass..

He has built it. The CATHOLIC Church is a knockoff created by Simon Magus after Peter rebuked him when he tried to buy an apostleship.

You keep throwing out the age of your organization. But it will ALWAYS be the SECOND church and it doesn't have GOD as it's orgin

 

[BS Filter]

Oh. You mean the Apostolic traditions that were in place before the New Testament was compiled or even written. Any particular reason that after fifteen centuries non-Catholic Christians decided to do away with the Apostles and their traditions?

Sure. They aren't Biblical.

 

[Meriweather]

Sure. They aren't Biblical.

Why is that a problem for you?

 

[Zincwarrior]

And that is all you know about the Catholic faith? No one else fits your list except Catholics?

They pray to saints that don't exist. They were down with torturing and killing tens of thousands in the Inquisition. They build really expensive churches with the donations of the poor. They used to absolve people from sons for money.

That's not Catholics. That's the Catholic Church.

Again, what's the good side?

 

[BS Filter]

Why is that a problem for you?

Distractions and meaningless. No value. When I was a new Christian I used to go play music at various places with a gospel band. Once we went to a huge senior center and I overheard one elderly woman yell at a staff member.."but I'm not a Christian, I'm a Catholic". Never forgot it. Fascinating.

 

[Meriweather]

They pray to saints that don't exist. They were down with torturing and killing tens of thousands in the Inquisition. They build really expensive churches with the donations of the poor. They used to absolve people from sons for money.

Again, what's the good side?

• Which Saints don't exist?
• Try reading a good, scholarly history of the Inquisitions.
• Only the poor donate?
• Try reading up on Indulgences. It wasn't about forgiveness, but thought to be a way of atoning for wrongs which might reduce time in purgatory. (Purification done in this life. Giving money wasn't the only way for atoning or making reparations.)

 

[BS Filter]

• Which Saints don't exist?
• Try reading a good, scholarly history of the Inquisitions.
• Only the poor donate?
• Try reading up on Indulgences. It wasn't about forgiveness, but thought to be a way of atoning for wrongs which might reduce time in purgatory. (Purification done in this life. Giving money wasn't the only way for atoning or making reparations.)

What saves you?

 

[Meriweather]

Distractions and meaningless. No value.

So history and traditions are meaningless and mean nothing to you. For me, history and genealogy were fascinating parts of my childhood, and they are still of great interest to me. The more the better, especially as they relate to the U.S. and the Bible.

 

[Meriweather]

What saves you?

From what?

 

[BS Filter]

From what?

Hell.

 

[Meriweather]

Hell.

Why on earth does anyone living in Christ need "saved" from hell?

 

[BS Filter]

Why on earth does anyone living in Christ need "saved" from hell?

That's my question. Does faith in Jesus alone save you from hell or is there anything else needed?

 

[Zincwarrior]

• Which Saints don't exist?
• Try reading a good, scholarly history of the Inquisitions.
• Only the poor donate?
• Try reading up on Indulgences. It wasn't about forgiveness, but thought to be a way of atoning for wrongs which might reduce time in purgatory. (Purification done in this life. Giving money wasn't the only way for atoning or making reparations.)

Excuses are like assholes. Everybody got one.

 

[Meriweather]

That's my question. Does faith in Jesus alone save you from hell or is there anything else needed?

Define "faith in Jesus alone". Particularly the "alone" part.