Why do so many people deny climate change

[bripat9643]

Or here?

[Q:] I know this kind of extreme weather is part of the territory in the middle of the country, but is climate change going to make such extreme weather more likely or more powerful?

[A: Trenberth] Of course, tornadoes are very much a weather phenomenon. They come from certain thunderstorms, usually supercell thunderstorms that are in a wind shear environment that promotes rotation. That environment is most common in spring across the U.S. when the storm track is just the right distance from the Gulf [of Mexico] and other sources of moisture.

The main climate change connection is via the basic instability of the low-level air that creates the convection and thunderstorms in the first place. Warmer and moister conditions are the key for unstable air. The oceans are warmer because of climate change.

The climate change effect is probably only a 5 to 10 percent effect in terms of the instability and subsequent rainfall, but it translates into up to a 33 percent effect in terms of damage. (It is highly nonlinear, for 10 percent it is 1.1 to the power of three = 1.33.) So there is a chain of events, and climate change mainly affects the first link: the basic buoyancy of the air is increased. Whether that translates into a supercell storm and one with a tornado is largely chance weather.

What about it? None of those claims are proven.

None of the proof of those claims is known by you. Why would you expect it to be?

If you got the proof, then post it.

 

[bripat9643]

Trenberth even admits that the sun has a massive impact on our climate. On that I agree with him. However, even if you accept everything he claims as true, it still doesn't prove that humans are responsible. The Earth has been warming for 10,000 years.

Show us some chemistry or physics or even alchemy that suggests that GHGs do not absorb OLR.

When have I ever claimed they didn't?

I certainly wouldn't post that ridiculous parlor trick that you claimed demonstrated the greenhouse effect.

 

[PMZ]

"The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t."

[Trenberth in Climategate1, 2009]



You'll have to forgive us if we don't place much stock in what Kevin Trenberth has to say.

You can read more of Trenberth's faux pas here:

Kevin Trenberth struggles mightily to explain the lack of global warming | Watts Up With That?

"You'll have to forgive us if we don't place much stock in what Kevin Trenberth has to say"

What you put stock in is meaningless. He's a renown climate scientist and you have clearly demonstrated no literacy in that topic. So we'll pay attention to his expertise in the field of climate science and your expertise when we find it.

Trenberth is a con-artist. He made his unhappiness about the fact of flat global temperatures quite plain. Then, wadda ya know, he comes up with an explanation for it!
Only a congenital fool would believe anything this weasel has to say.

Here's the difference between him and you. He has qualified science behind his opinions. You have absolutely and precisely nothing except for political posturing. The only possible reason for anybody to accept your opinion over his would be political.

 

[PMZ]

Trenberth even admits that the sun has a massive impact on our climate. On that I agree with him. However, even if you accept everything he claims as true, it still doesn't prove that humans are responsible. The Earth has been warming for 10,000 years.

Show us some chemistry or physics or even alchemy that suggests that GHGs do not absorb OLR.

When have I ever claimed they didn't?

I certainly wouldn't post that ridiculous parlor trick that you claimed demonstrated the greenhouse effect.

There is no way that it is possible that the OLR absorption of GHGs does not produce global warming. The simplest of physics.

If you disagree, show us the science.

What are the primary products of combustion from fossil fuels?

 

[PMZ]

"The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t."

[Trenberth in Climategate1, 2009]



You'll have to forgive us if we don't place much stock in what Kevin Trenberth has to say.

You can read more of Trenberth's faux pas here:

Kevin Trenberth struggles mightily to explain the lack of global warming | Watts Up With That?

What do you disagree with here?

[Trenberth] “Warming” really means heating, and so it can be manifested in many ways. Rising surface temperatures are just one manifestation. Melting Arctic sea ice is another. So is melting of glaciers and other land ice that contribute to rising sea levels. Increasing the water cycle and invigorating storms is yet another…Another prominent source of natural variability in the Earth’s energy imbalance is changes in the sun itself, seen most clearly as the sunspot cycle. From 2005 to 2010 the sun went into a quiet phase and the warming energy imbalance is estimated to have dropped by about 10 to 15%.

"…Human induced global warming really kicked in during the 1970s, and warming has been pretty steady since then…Focusing on the wiggles and ignoring the bigger picture of unabated warming is foolhardy, but one promoted by climate change deniers. Global sea level keeps marching up at a rate of over 30 cm per century since 1992 (when global measurements via altimetry on satellites were made possible), and that is perhaps a better indicator that global warming continues unabated."

Trenberth even admits that the sun has a massive impact on our climate. On that I agree with him. However, even if you accept everything he claims as true, it still doesn't prove that humans are responsible. The Earth has been warming for 10,000 years.

"Trenberth even admits that the sun has a massive impact on our climate."

Our climate would not exist without the sun. Nor would we. Nor would earth.

 

[mamooth]

If you want to take the oceans temperature, first build a very long thermometer.

You should do that.

Been done. The ARGO floats dip down to 2000m.

Did your cult leaders not inform you of that? Of course they didn't.

As Bri and Todd have been working so hard to show, people deny because their cult tells them to. Only a cultist could get as bitter and obsessive and cranky as the denialists here do. They'll run out of steam soon, go off on a week-long bender, and so a new crank will step up to be the obsessive one. It's like the denialist circle of life.

 

[edthecynic]

There is no global warming. Not since 1998. And climate change is natural. .

And the mindless drones parrot their programming. It's amazing how many fools will repeat any bullshit they are fed by GOP hate media without even bothering to fact check it!!

So please explain how the decade following 1998 was the warmest in the history of direct instrument measurement if warming STOPPED in 1998??????

Past decade hottest on record, marked by extremes: UN | Fox News

The first decade of the 21st century was the hottest on record, marked by unprecedented climate and weather extremes that killed more than 370,000 people, the United Nations weather agency said Wednesday.
The period from 2001 to 2010 was the warmest decade for both hemispheres since records began in 1850, was the second-wettest since 1901 and saw the most tropical cyclones since 1855, the World Meteorological Organization said in a new report.

Obviously, you're too stupid to understand the fact that both claims can be true. Only the locally impaired believe you claim invalidates the prior claim. Those who post this nonsense only unmask themselves as propagandists.

However, having said that, it's not even true that the last decade was the warmest on record.

They don't call these idiots "deniers" for nothing!

If warming stopped in 1998 then the decade that followed 1998 could not be the warmest in the history of direct instrument measurement, which even FOX admits!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you want to take the oceans temperature, first build a very long thermometer.

You should do that.

Been done. The ARGO floats dip down to 2000m.

Did your cult leaders not inform you of that? Of course they didn't.

As Bri and Todd have been working so hard to show, people deny because their cult tells them to. Only a cultist could get as bitter and obsessive and cranky as the denialists here do. They'll run out of steam soon, go off on a week-long bender, and so a new crank will step up to be the obsessive one. It's like the denialist circle of life.

That is awesome.
So what was the huge increase in temperature that they measured?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If you want to take the oceans temperature, first build a very long thermometer.

You should do that.

Been done. The ARGO floats dip down to 2000m.

Did your cult leaders not inform you of that? Of course they didn't.

As Bri and Todd have been working so hard to show, people deny because their cult tells them to. Only a cultist could get as bitter and obsessive and cranky as the denialists here do. They'll run out of steam soon, go off on a week-long bender, and so a new crank will step up to be the obsessive one. It's like the denialist circle of life.

What's the average temperature of the oceans? (LOL)

 

[bripat9643]

Makes you wish that you had some science, doesn't it?
Making claims without facts is a tough position to be in except if you're talking politics. Then, it's an advantage.

It's been an advantage for Al Gore.

Let me know when you find how much warmer and how deep.

The study involved the bringing together of a diverse suite of data, ranging from satellite measurements of the surface waters to ship observations at all depths, instruments mounted on elephant seals, ARGO profilers (a large collection of small, drifting-robotic probes deployed worldwide), and data-gathering instruments moored in place. The data includes temperature, salinity, depth, and altimetry of the ocean surface, going back decades.
Ocean heat content from zero to 300 meters deep (grey), 700 meters deep (blue), and total depth (violet). The vertical colored bars indicate a two year interval following volcanic eruptions with a six month and the 1997–1998 El Niño event. On lower right, the linear slopes for a set of global heating rates is given.

ARGO has only been in place since 2007. How many observations are there for temperatures at all depths of the ocean that go back at least until 1965? The answer is virtually none. The data is extremely thin.

Piecing together different kinds of data from different times and sometimes from sparse data sets was the key challenge, Trenberth explains, but that is the specialty of his coauthors at the European Centre for Medium Range Weather Forecasts in the U.K

No kidding? But somehow the AGW magicians managed to do it, and their results are infallible, of course.

“It's more than speculation and suggestion,” agrees climate scientist Gavin Schmidt of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, “and it's probably right to a reasonable degree. The fact of the matter is we'll never be able to get data from below 400 meters in the middle of the Pacific Ocean” because there is not enough money invested in ocean sensors to cover such places. “So we have to use physics to fill in the gaps.”

In other words, they don't have any data for about 90% of the water in the ocean. Yeah, we can trust their conclusions with a data set like that.

The bottom line, says Trenberth is that the heat of global warming is going to different places. “So global warming is continuing even though it’s not always manifested as a strong surface temperature increase. It’s just manifesting itself in different ways.”

The bottom line is that Trenberth is con man.

 

[bripat9643]

If you want to take the oceans temperature, first build a very long thermometer.

You should do that.

Been done. The ARGO floats dip down to 2000m.

Did your cult leaders not inform you of that? Of course they didn't.

As Bri and Todd have been working so hard to show, people deny because their cult tells them to. Only a cultist could get as bitter and obsessive and cranky as the denialists here do. They'll run out of steam soon, go off on a week-long bender, and so a new crank will step up to be the obsessive one. It's like the denialist circle of life.

The ARGO floats have only been in place since 2007. How does a 5 year temperature record show the oceans have been absorbing the excess warming for the last 15 years?

 

[bripat9643]

And the mindless drones parrot their programming. It's amazing how many fools will repeat any bullshit they are fed by GOP hate media without even bothering to fact check it!!

So please explain how the decade following 1998 was the warmest in the history of direct instrument measurement if warming STOPPED in 1998??????

Past decade hottest on record, marked by extremes: UN | Fox News

The first decade of the 21st century was the hottest on record, marked by unprecedented climate and weather extremes that killed more than 370,000 people, the United Nations weather agency said Wednesday.
The period from 2001 to 2010 was the warmest decade for both hemispheres since records began in 1850, was the second-wettest since 1901 and saw the most tropical cyclones since 1855, the World Meteorological Organization said in a new report.

Obviously, you're too stupid to understand the fact that both claims can be true. Only the locally impaired believe your claim invalidates the prior claim. Those who post this nonsense only unmask themselves as propagandists.

However, having said that, it's not even true that the last decade was the warmest on record.

They don't call these idiots "deniers" for nothing!

If warming stopped in 1998 then the decade that followed 1998 could not be the warmest in the history of direct instrument measurement, which even FOX admits!

Yes it could. I can draw you a picture to show you, but I have no idea how to make it appear in a post.

The people who work for FOX are journalists. They aren't scientists, so what they claim doesn't really matter. Furthermore, I don't believe I've ever witnessed anyone on FOX stating what you claim.

 

[PMZ]

What about it? None of those claims are proven.

None of the proof of those claims is known by you. Why would you expect it to be?

If you got the proof, then post it.

See, I don't care at all if you understand anything that you're not educated in. If you are curious, learn. If you don't know and aren't curious, stay ignorant. Whether or not you understand anything, is your issue, not mine. You are irrelevant to any solution, so you are irrelevant to me.

 

[PMZ]

If you want to take the oceans temperature, first build a very long thermometer.

You should do that.

Been done. The ARGO floats dip down to 2000m.

Did your cult leaders not inform you of that? Of course they didn't.

As Bri and Todd have been working so hard to show, people deny because their cult tells them to. Only a cultist could get as bitter and obsessive and cranky as the denialists here do. They'll run out of steam soon, go off on a week-long bender, and so a new crank will step up to be the obsessive one. It's like the denialist circle of life.

They are nothing but political. Their choice. Our job is merely to keep them from mucking up the science. Their job is to keep us from mucking up their politics.

I, personally, am committed to exposing their politics to the light of day so that others can choose.

 

[PMZ]

If you want to take the oceans temperature, first build a very long thermometer.

You should do that.

Been done. The ARGO floats dip down to 2000m.

Did your cult leaders not inform you of that? Of course they didn't.

As Bri and Todd have been working so hard to show, people deny because their cult tells them to. Only a cultist could get as bitter and obsessive and cranky as the denialists here do. They'll run out of steam soon, go off on a week-long bender, and so a new crank will step up to be the obsessive one. It's like the denialist circle of life.

That is awesome.
So what was the huge increase in temperature that they measured?

What does the word proxy mean to you?

 

[tinydancer]

If you want to take the oceans temperature, first build a very long thermometer.

You should do that.

Been done. The ARGO floats dip down to 2000m.

Did your cult leaders not inform you of that? Of course they didn't.

As Bri and Todd have been working so hard to show, people deny because their cult tells them to. Only a cultist could get as bitter and obsessive and cranky as the denialists here do. They'll run out of steam soon, go off on a week-long bender, and so a new crank will step up to be the obsessive one. It's like the denialist circle of life.

They are nothing but political. Their choice. Our job is merely to keep them from mucking up the science. Their job is to keep us from mucking up their politics.

I, personally, am committed to exposing their politics to the light of day so that others can choose.

Our job?

By all means tell us who you are.

 

[PMZ]

If you want to take the oceans temperature, first build a very long thermometer.

You should do that.

Been done. The ARGO floats dip down to 2000m.

Did your cult leaders not inform you of that? Of course they didn't.

As Bri and Todd have been working so hard to show, people deny because their cult tells them to. Only a cultist could get as bitter and obsessive and cranky as the denialists here do. They'll run out of steam soon, go off on a week-long bender, and so a new crank will step up to be the obsessive one. It's like the denialist circle of life.

What's the average temperature of the oceans? (LOL)

If you want to learn science, look it up. I personally can't think of any thing more trivial.

 

[PMZ]

If you want to take the oceans temperature, first build a very long thermometer.

You should do that.

Been done. The ARGO floats dip down to 2000m.

Did your cult leaders not inform you of that? Of course they didn't.

As Bri and Todd have been working so hard to show, people deny because their cult tells them to. Only a cultist could get as bitter and obsessive and cranky as the denialists here do. They'll run out of steam soon, go off on a week-long bender, and so a new crank will step up to be the obsessive one. It's like the denialist circle of life.

That is awesome.
So what was the huge increase in temperature that they measured?

Why do you think that they measured temperature?

 

[ScienceRocks]

And the mindless drones parrot their programming. It's amazing how many fools will repeat any bullshit they are fed by GOP hate media without even bothering to fact check it!!

So please explain how the decade following 1998 was the warmest in the history of direct instrument measurement if warming STOPPED in 1998??????

Past decade hottest on record, marked by extremes: UN | Fox News

The first decade of the 21st century was the hottest on record, marked by unprecedented climate and weather extremes that killed more than 370,000 people, the United Nations weather agency said Wednesday.
The period from 2001 to 2010 was the warmest decade for both hemispheres since records began in 1850, was the second-wettest since 1901 and saw the most tropical cyclones since 1855, the World Meteorological Organization said in a new report.

Obviously, you're too stupid to understand the fact that both claims can be true. Only the locally impaired believe you claim invalidates the prior claim. Those who post this nonsense only unmask themselves as propagandists.

However, having said that, it's not even true that the last decade was the warmest on record.

They don't call these idiots "deniers" for nothing!

If warming stopped in 1998 then the decade that followed 1998 could not be the warmest in the history of direct instrument measurement, which even FOX admits!

Yes it could when you consider avgs.....

If the 1990's started around .2c cooler then the end of the decade and you add them out. This would give you a avg lower then the 2000's that remained the same.

Of course we have seen some warming but this argument doesn't prove anything.

 

[edthecynic]

Obviously, you're too stupid to understand the fact that both claims can be true. Only the locally impaired believe your claim invalidates the prior claim. Those who post this nonsense only unmask themselves as propagandists.

However, having said that, it's not even true that the last decade was the warmest on record.

They don't call these idiots "deniers" for nothing!

If warming stopped in 1998 then the decade that followed 1998 could not be the warmest in the history of direct instrument measurement, which even FOX admits!

Yes it could. I can draw you a picture to show you, but I have no idea how to make it appear in a post.

The people who work for FOX are journalists. They aren't scientists, so what they claim doesn't really matter. Furthermore, I don't believe I've ever witnessed anyone on FOX stating what you claim.

The perpetual dumb act again.

The link I provided is to FOX!