Why do so many teachers leave the profession?

[boilermaker55]

The ones always jumping around yelling the loudest about others being jealous of others income and wealth, seem to use this as their punching bag. Teachers are educated and most of them completely dedicated to their profession and the students.
Just as any other professional, they have the good and the not so good among their ranks.

So your friend lives specifically in Buffalo or does she teach in the city? There will be a decided salary difference.

Teaches in the city, and like everyone else... Lives in the suburbs.

Your link was specifically about Buffalo so when you said "her plan covers boob jobs", that was an incorrect statement unless you can provide evidence that NYC also has an insurance plan with the same rider.

While you look for that, I'll provide the average salary of a NYC teacher. You didn't mention how long your "friend" has worked there.

Starting teacher salaries range from $45,530 (bachelor’s degree, no prior teaching experience) to $74,796 (bachelor’s degree, master’s degree plus 30 credits, 7.5+ years teaching experience). Teachers who have a master’s degree but no teaching experience will start at $51,425. With annual increases plus increases for additional coursework, teachers’ salaries will rise to the current maximum of $100,049 per year over time.​

New York City Teacher Salary

In order to get that 100K, you have to have been working for 22 years.

Now, what shall we compare that to? How about a bartender?

A good bartender at the Plaza's Oak Bar can make $50,000 to $70,000 per year including tips; $100,000 isn't unheard of.

And how much education is required for that?

$alaries in the City

The average overall salary in the city is $70K, but your friend is making oodles of money? Really?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The ex-teachers end up as the bosses of those far right reactionary crazees flipping burgers.

Lmao.... and what world do you live in? dont the left always bitch about a "liviing wage"?

bear513 is one of the burger flippers being supervised by his jr high teacher.

 

[ClosedCaption]

It's amazing how many here can ignore and dismiss evidence and stats and instead opt to make up stories that include immeasurable things like "bad attitudes and ignorant parents".

Pretty much the formula for their disagreement is one part jealousy (make too much, vaca time), one part negativity (teacher dont do shit) and one part anecdotal evidence (I know a teacher that *add the 2 parts above*.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Best kept secret in education too, I only wish I had found it 27 years ago. You can dis it all you want and I don't care. My guys don't sit in a stupid classroom for 4 years and get a high school diploma, make that GED, which, by the way, over 70% of recent high school graduates can't pass. They oftentimes start from almost zero and while some don't make it many do. There's nothing more rewarding in education like that, and I've done just about everything there is to do in education in 27 years. Some go right into college but I try and direct them to vocational training where the jobs are today.

If they write like you do they shouldn't pass at all.

Which again shows your lack of knowledge on the subject. This is a fucking forum, not a writing seminar at Columbia, in the event you needed a reality check. You really think John Grisham, Steven King, and all these people writing books on scholarly subjects (like you'd know anything about those) sit down and type it out and that's all? Ever heard of editors? Ever read the acknowledgments in a book where the author thanks all the people who read and edited the manuscripts? Of course not - you already know everything. I'm in contact with Joseph Wambaugh and Jeff Shaara, two award winning authors, not that you would know who they are, and get advice from them all the time. You think I am arrogant like you and search their email communications for errors? You're so goddamned arrogant and hateful you're losing touch with what little reality you might even know about.

Lazy is lazy.

Your writing is a reflection of the order of your mind.

Hence your mind is scattered and shows lack of attention to detail.

No wonder you're a teacher.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Skull Pilot's immature writing style reflects the lack of respect here by others for him.

Tuff dat, boy.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Skull Pilot's immature writing style reflects the lack of respect here by others for him.

Tuff dat, boy.

I never claimed to be a teacher did I Snarkey.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Skull Pilot's immature writing style reflects the lack of respect here by others for him.

Tuff dat, boy.

I never claimed to be a teacher did I Snarkey.

You were smacked for being impertinent. Grow up, naughty boy.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Skull Pilot's immature writing style reflects the lack of respect here by others for him.

Tuff dat, boy.

I never claimed to be a teacher did I Snarkey.

You were smacked for being impertinent. Grow up, naughty boy.

Yeah you smacked me. As if you could.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I never claimed to be a teacher did I Snarkey.

You were smacked for being impertinent. Grow up, naughty boy.

Yeah you smacked me. As if you could.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I left because I wanted more money.

 

[initforme]

"Oh, I'm a 27 year vet and made damned sure my kids never even better consider it as a career! For one, this country no longer values education. Being a simpleton smartass is more valued (see: your TV menu and surf some channels, up to and including the news). For two, there are not many other professions that demand so much education for so little financial return. Three, yea, the kids are increasingly more difficult, but try dealing with mentally crippled parents! The hell are you supposed to reason with someone who washes down their Xanax with Captain Morgan? Four, in the past 4 years since politicians decided to make unions the root of all that is evil in the United States - the trendy scapegoat - who'd want to deal with that?

There's many other reasons I advise any and everyone to stay the hell away from it. And that's a damned shame. "

Well said. Those who complain about teachers
1) couldnt do the job effectively
2) are hypocrites. They are the same ones who say to leave those who make big money alone. I agree. yet they say a teacher making $60,000 measely dollars is the scum of the earth. If they are so dang envious of teachers then Why didnt they become one?

 

[Samson]

.

I've talked to many, many ex-teachers who said they left because the children were simply uncontrollable and clearly getting worse.

One of my brothers retired from his job and decided to teach for a few years. That lasted two years, he said it was so bad it was scary. Kids (and I'm talking seven, eight years old) swearing at him, fighting in the class, not showing up for days at a time, parents defending their horrible children no matter what they did, parents not giving a shit, parents threatening to take action against him for their kids' bad grades, on and on. The kids' "self esteem" is now a far higher priority than their performance.

Just another example of a culture in decay.

.

If its not on Youtube, then it didn't happen.

[youtube]kBeyUmniouI[/youtube]

 

[Gem]

I'm coming to this conversation a bit late...but as an educator I wanted to throw my two cents into the mix:

Just like any other profession, there are many pros and many cons to being a public school teacher. I think the main differences I have found between the pros and cons of teaching and those other professions are that:
1) Other people seem to be able to complain about the "cons" of their jobs without being called whiny, entitled, libs who should shut their mouths and be happy with what they've got
2) Because almost all of us attended a public school at one time or another...it seems like most of the population seems to think that they KNOW what its like to be a teacher, how difficult the job is, what it entails, how to fix it, etc.

These two things make discussing education very challenging.

Doctors complain about the problems of their work without people practically spitting at them, "SHUT UP, YOU MAKE A LOT OF MONEY!!!!!" Yet no conversation about the problems of public education can take place without someone hyperventilating about teachers getting summers off.

I do get approximately 10-weeks off during the summer. It's fantastic. It is a HUGE perk. I wouldn't deny it in a million years. But why would one fantastic perk somehow deny me the right to address the "cons" that I face on a daily basis in my profession? Not to mention that if people aren't trying to shame teachers into shutting up because of summer break they are trying to shame them into silence by claiming that if we do complain about an aspect of our profession we "don't really care about the children."

These tactics only serve to silence the people who are on the front lines of the public education problem...who on Earth thinks thats a wise strategy for finding logical solutions to the problem.

Teachers are leaving education because the "cons" of the profession are outweighing the "pros." And if the "cons" are outweighing 10-weeks of vacation...you KNOW you have a problem. Swearing at us, calling us names, questioning our love of our profession, or belittling what we do...is NOT going to solve that problem.

 

[whitehall]

They get tired of having three months off every summer?

 

[Samson]

Other people seem to be able to complain about the "cons" of their jobs without being called whiny, entitled, libs who should shut their mouths and be happy with what they've got
....
Doctors complain about the problems of their work without people practically spitting at them, "SHUT UP, YOU MAKE A LOT OF MONEY!!!!!"

Teachers are some of the highest paid public servants, this means that THE PUBLIC pays for them.

The public hasn't paid for Doctors, whose main complaint, ironically, is that they are becoming more like public servants.

 

[initforme]

"Teachers are some of the highest paid public servants, this means that THE PUBLIC pays for them."

And they SHOULD be paid handsomely. What is the problem with that? If you believe they are paid too much then why didnt you become one? The average teacher where I live makes $50,000. To me thats peanuts for what they do.

 

[editec]

At least as -12 goes, teaching is bloody hard work.

Not everybody is suited to it.

The salaries aren't too bad, but being a teacher isn't something most people are really very good at.

People who go into k-12 teaching because they love the subject matter are often unhappy with the job.

Less than half what teachers do is teach.

Much of what they do is dealing with people, keep dicipline and do a load of rather mindless paperwork so they can justify the grades they give.

Ed, one thing I learned early on in teaching is that EVERYONE'S an expert on education. So all these sarcastic, dismissive and highly inaccurate "observations" here play like the proverbial broken record. Why don't all these experts step up to the plate?

Yeah that is so true, Knobby.

As we mostly all went through the K-12 educational system as students, many of us assume that we understand what it must be like to teach in that system.

Some of the things I also notice when the issue of education and teaching comes to the floor are this:

Typically the weakest posters, the most confused thinkers, the people with the lowest levels of real information also tend to be the same ilk who like to tell us how easy teaching is, how teachers have lifetime contracts and can never be fired, and how all teachers are all liberals who are lazy people and who can do nothing else.

You don't suppose, do you, that the majority of people who hate teachers were also completely losers in the educational game, do you?

I'm thinking that narrative might explain their irrational hatred of the people who made it possible for them to post here.

 

[Samson]

"Teachers are some of the highest paid public servants, this means that THE PUBLIC pays for them."

And they SHOULD be paid handsomely. What is the problem with that? If you believe they are paid too much then why didnt you become one? The average teacher where I live makes $50,000. To me thats peanuts for what they do.

I was a teacher, moron.

And I never said there was a problem with teacher pay.

Your credability meter is pegging on "0" so discussing the subject with you is not worth my time.

 

[Samson]

They get tired of having three months off every summer?

No this is a benefit.

Another benefit is there is a relatively low barrier for entry into teaching. By "relative" I mean compared to most real professionals.

To be a teacher in Texas, where collective bargaining among public employees is unlawful, you had to have a degree, and you had to be certified in to teach something. This meant, at minumum, you had to have a degree in Elementary Ed, and to have passed a fairly simple test (compared to the State Bar for Lawyers, or the Physcian Exam, or the Professional Engineer's Exam).

Of course, you also had to complete an internship without pay for a semester, usually as part of your degree plan: No 4 year internship at a hospital, no climbing up any ladders in a Law or Engineering firm.

The starting salary in urban areas was comprable to an army Lt.'s pay, but the chance of being sent to a real war zone was much MUCH less (yes, I know some teachers like to complain they work in war zones, but I don't see many hobbling about on prosthetic limbs).

So becoming responsible for 25+ first graders, right out of college is pretty easy.

Easy come; easy go.

 

[Esmeralda]

Long hours, low pay and lack of their profession being considered "professional"

Approx 50% leave before they hit 5 years on the job

High Teacher Turnover Rates are a Big Problem for America?s Public Schools - Forbes

Discuss

Teachers are paid considerably less than other professionals with the same education. In addition, American teachers must take continuing education to keep their certificates valid. They are required to continue paying for and completing college coursework on an ongoing basis.

Teachers must deal with a plethora of social problems, with kids who have personal problems because of the home environment, who have physical and mental problems. Most teachers spend at least as much time and engery dealing with those problems as they do on teaching.

Teachers are treated with minimal respect by the school administrators and school board.

There are treated with little or no respect by many parents and literally held in contempt by most of the American public.

They are expected to be saints, to wear sack cloth and ashes, and devote themselves fully to their jobs practically night and day, for low pay and little respect.

And your are surprised at a high turnover?

The best line I ever heard was on the British version of The Weakest Link. The host asked a contestant what her profession was. The contestant said 'teacher.' The host said, 'So, you like children.' The contestant said, "I used to."

People go into the profession because they had good experiences in school themselves and they want to do the same for others. They want to help children. In America, the students, the parents, the administrators, and the American public can drive all of that completely out of a person.