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They get tired of having three months off every summer?
No this is a benefit.
Another benefit is there is a relatively low barrier for entry into teaching. By "relative" I mean compared to most real professionals.
50 grand for less than 9 month's work."Teachers are some of the highest paid public servants, this means that THE PUBLIC pays for them."
And they SHOULD be paid handsomely. What is the problem with that? If you believe they are paid too much then why didnt you become one? The average teacher where I live makes $50,000. To me thats peanuts for what they do.
They get tired of having three months off every summer?
No this is a benefit.
Another benefit is there is a relatively low barrier for entry into teaching. By "relative" I mean compared to most real professionals.
What total BS. You ignoramous. You do not know what you are talking about. Teaching is not a real profession?
You think teaching a class of first graders is like baby sitting or something? Any old person can do it? You're an idiot.
50 grand for less than 9 month's work."Teachers are some of the highest paid public servants, this means that THE PUBLIC pays for them."
And they SHOULD be paid handsomely. What is the problem with that? If you believe they are paid too much then why didnt you become one? The average teacher where I live makes $50,000. To me thats peanuts for what they do.
You think that's not enough?
No this is a benefit.
Another benefit is there is a relatively low barrier for entry into teaching. By "relative" I mean compared to most real professionals.
What total BS. You ignoramous. You do not know what you are talking about. Teaching is not a real profession?
You think teaching a class of first graders is like baby sitting or something? Any old person can do it? You're an idiot.
It's usually the worst students who gravitate toward the education curricula
"Before 5 years"?
I think that's the point at which teachers are either given tenure or are fired through RIF (Reduction In Force). The reason 50% leave is that they are fired, rather than granted tenure. The reason they're fired is because it's cheaper to re-hire someone fresh out of college. They then give them the "5 year run" and then fire their asses.
It's a racket. I used to have such empathy for teachers when Mrs. H. got hired. Yes her days often extended late into the night working on lesson plans and grading papers. Sure the summers off were great, but it averaged out to a 40 hour week even considering those summers off.
Now- I could give a shit. It is a racket fraught with nepotism, cronyism, and favoritism.
They get tired of having three months off every summer?
No this is a benefit.
Another benefit is there is a relatively low barrier for entry into teaching. By "relative" I mean compared to most real professionals.
What total BS. You ignoramous. You do not know what you are talking about. Teaching is not a real profession?
You think teaching a class of first graders is like baby sitting or something? Any old person can do it? You're an idiot.
From what lofty position do you look down on the teaching profession? Is it your perch up there on you forklift?
What total BS. You ignoramous. You do not know what you are talking about. Teaching is not a real profession?
You think teaching a class of first graders is like baby sitting or something? Any old person can do it? You're an idiot.
It's usually the worst students who gravitate toward the education curricula
Total bull shit. It is usually the worst students who end up looking down on teachers, and, who, incidently, end up in blue collar professions because they don't have the wherewithal to go to college. Those who were very good students, who loved school, are the ones who end up teaching: they want to share that experience with others; many had at least one specific teacher they admired and that person became a motivation and role model. The worst students end up like you, looking down on the teaching profession because they failed miserably in school,and, instead of taking responsibility for their own learning, they blame the teachers and the education system.
It's usually the worst students who gravitate toward the education curricula
Total bull shit. It is usually the worst students who end up looking down on teachers, and, who, incidently, end up in blue collar professions because they don't have the wherewithal to go to college. Those who were very good students, who loved school, are the ones who end up teaching: they want to share that experience with others; many had at least one specific teacher they admired and that person became a motivation and role model. The worst students end up like you, looking down on the teaching profession because they failed miserably in school,and, instead of taking responsibility for their own learning, they blame the teachers and the education system.
Typical Eliteist Academia Crap.
The sad thing is that you don't seem to realize that even among academia, majoring in Education is only a step above majoring in Theatre Arts.
Pre-Law, Pre-Med, Engineering, Architecture, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Accounting, Finance, Economics....I could go on.....
They all know most Education majors are the least intellectually challenged students.
"They all know...." The thing is you don't know anything because you've never been to university. You haven't got a clue. Do you not realize that teachers have degrees in those fields in addition to their education credentials? You don't teach in any of those disciplines without getting a degree in them. Fool. The only teachers who have an 'education' degree that is not within a discipline are elementary teachers.
"They all know...." The thing is you don't know anything because you've never been to university. You haven't got a clue. Do you not realize that teachers have degrees in those fields in addition to their education credentials? You don't teach in any of those disciplines without getting a degree in them. Fool. The only teachers who have an 'education' degree that is not within a discipline are elementary teachers.
That's not quite true Esmeralda, you don't necessarily have to have a degree in a subject area to teach that area. As an example you don't have to have a Mathematics degree to teach mathematics. Since I live in Virginia, I'll use that state.
1. Now, you can graduate with a degree in that area and then take education courses for licensure.
2. However, you can graduate from an approved teacher prep program which specialists in math, in which case your degree is in education, not math.
3. You can graduate with another type of degree and still qualify to teach math if your coursework satisfies certain requirements. In Virginia they have to have 36 semester hours of math coursework (Algebra, Geometry, Analytic Geometry, Statistics, Discrete Math, Computer Science, Calculus). We have more than a couple of Math teachers in our high schools who have engineering degrees - not math.
Just FYI.
>>>>
It must be awful having the entire summer off.
Also, getting all those benefits which most employees don't get must be horrible too.
"They all know...." The thing is you don't know anything because you've never been to university. You haven't got a clue. Do you not realize that teachers have degrees in those fields in addition to their education credentials? You don't teach in any of those disciplines without getting a degree in them. Fool. The only teachers who have an 'education' degree that is not within a discipline are elementary teachers.
That's not quite true Esmeralda, you don't necessarily have to have a degree in a subject area to teach that area. As an example you don't have to have a Mathematics degree to teach mathematics. Since I live in Virginia, I'll use that state.
1. Now, you can graduate with a degree in that area and then take education courses for licensure.
2. However, you can graduate from an approved teacher prep program which specialists in math, in which case your degree is in education, not math.
3. You can graduate with another type of degree and still qualify to teach math if your coursework satisfies certain requirements. In Virginia they have to have 36 semester hours of math coursework (Algebra, Geometry, Analytic Geometry, Statistics, Discrete Math, Computer Science, Calculus). We have more than a couple of Math teachers in our high schools who have engineering degrees - not math.
Just FYI.
>>>>
~But basically, you are saying what I am saying. People who teach in middle and high school, have degrees in a discipline, not a general degree in education. Only primary/elementary school teachers have degrees in 'education,' and they take a lot of courses in how the mind develops, etc. In childhood psychology, and so on. It is not a silly degree. Those who teach in middle school and high school study in their discipline and get a degree in their discipline with some education courses added to it, but they study essentially the same coursework as those who get a degree in that discipline. And most teachers, such as you give an example of, have a serious, full bachelor's degree. Your math teacher has an engineering degree, though he is teaching math. He had a degree in a specific discipline, not some vague, 'easy' and frivolous degree in 'education.' You can get a degree in one area and add to it other specific requirements to turn it into a teaching credential. Also, most teachers have a master's degree or the equivalent in course hours, and many, nowadays, have Ph.D.s.
That's not quite true Esmeralda, you don't necessarily have to have a degree in a subject area to teach that area. As an example you don't have to have a Mathematics degree to teach mathematics. Since I live in Virginia, I'll use that state.
1. Now, you can graduate with a degree in that area and then take education courses for licensure.
2. However, you can graduate from an approved teacher prep program which specialists in math, in which case your degree is in education, not math.
3. You can graduate with another type of degree and still qualify to teach math if your coursework satisfies certain requirements. In Virginia they have to have 36 semester hours of math coursework (Algebra, Geometry, Analytic Geometry, Statistics, Discrete Math, Computer Science, Calculus). We have more than a couple of Math teachers in our high schools who have engineering degrees - not math.
Just FYI.
>>>>
~But basically, you are saying what I am saying. People who teach in middle and high school, have degrees in a discipline, not a general degree in education. Only primary/elementary school teachers have degrees in 'education,' and they take a lot of courses in how the mind develops, etc. In childhood psychology, and so on. It is not a silly degree. Those who teach in middle school and high school study in their discipline and get a degree in their discipline with some education courses added to it, but they study essentially the same coursework as those who get a degree in that discipline. And most teachers, such as you give an example of, have a serious, full bachelor's degree. Your math teacher has an engineering degree, though he is teaching math. He had a degree in a specific discipline, not some vague, 'easy' and frivolous degree in 'education.' You can get a degree in one area and add to it other specific requirements to turn it into a teaching credential. Also, most teachers have a master's degree or the equivalent in course hours, and many, nowadays, have Ph.D.s.
Technically we're not saying quite the same thing. Your original statement was that teachers at the secondary levels have degrees in those fields. Not required, people can have education degrees and teach specialized subjects at the secondary level if they meet the other course requirements. It is not uncommon for someone to have a degree in education with a minor in a specialization field (math, history, science, etc) and therefore qualify to teach at the secondary level. Then of course there are - what we call - Career Switchers, people that have a degree in a different area - in this example, say Engineering - that will qualify for and receive a provisional license to teach while they complete the education requirements.
So no, the premise is slightly different then your original statement. You do not have to be degreed in the subject to teach it at the secondary level. You can have an education degree with sufficient course hours to teach that subject.
>>>>
long hours? lol how many damn days do they get off? and wtf? whats so hard sitting in a room of rug rats for like 6 hours? its the liberal dream job and you get to teach them to be liberals so when they grow up they can vote for your unions and your pay check, how much more do they want?
Unfortunately they get to deal with the out of control brats they have created by taking away disipline in the school. Now the students run the show. I have a good friend who is a teacher. That is her main complaint...unruly and abusive children (with obnoxious parents).
and AGAiN those that do, well they just do, those that cant, well they just teach. I could handle those rug rats in a heart beat. but hey I am just a 47 year old guy that fixes molding machines and programs robotics.... move along nothing you can learn from since I dont have a english masters....
Unfortunately they get to deal with the out of control brats they have created by taking away disipline in the school. Now the students run the show. I have a good friend who is a teacher. That is her main complaint...unruly and abusive children (with obnoxious parents).
and AGAiN those that do, well they just do, those that cant, well they just teach. I could handle those rug rats in a heart beat. but hey I am just a 47 year old guy that fixes molding machines and programs robotics.... move along nothing you can learn from since I dont have a english masters....
Those who can do, teach. Those who cannot do, pass laws telling teachers what to do.
Absolutely baseless bravado.I could handle those rug rats in a heart beat
~But basically, you are saying what I am saying. People who teach in middle and high school, have degrees in a discipline, not a general degree in education. Only primary/elementary school teachers have degrees in 'education,' and they take a lot of courses in how the mind develops, etc. In childhood psychology, and so on. It is not a silly degree. Those who teach in middle school and high school study in their discipline and get a degree in their discipline with some education courses added to it, but they study essentially the same coursework as those who get a degree in that discipline. And most teachers, such as you give an example of, have a serious, full bachelor's degree. Your math teacher has an engineering degree, though he is teaching math. He had a degree in a specific discipline, not some vague, 'easy' and frivolous degree in 'education.' You can get a degree in one area and add to it other specific requirements to turn it into a teaching credential. Also, most teachers have a master's degree or the equivalent in course hours, and many, nowadays, have Ph.D.s.
Technically we're not saying quite the same thing. Your original statement was that teachers at the secondary levels have degrees in those fields. Not required, people can have education degrees and teach specialized subjects at the secondary level if they meet the other course requirements. It is not uncommon for someone to have a degree in education with a minor in a specialization field (math, history, science, etc) and therefore qualify to teach at the secondary level. Then of course there are - what we call - Career Switchers, people that have a degree in a different area - in this example, say Engineering - that will qualify for and receive a provisional license to teach while they complete the education requirements.
So no, the premise is slightly different then your original statement. You do not have to be degreed in the subject to teach it at the secondary level. You can have an education degree with sufficient course hours to teach that subject.
>>>>
There is no such thing for teachers in America at the secondary level to have a purely 'education' degree. There is no such thing.
You must get it in a discipline, a degree in teaching a specific subject. Or, you can get a bachelors degree in a subject and add the necessary education courses and get a credential in that area.
There is no such thing in secondary education as a vague, not specific degree in 'education.' It doesn't exist. Not in America.
You may be referring to teachers who have a degree in teaching one subject and add to it certain requirements so they can teach in other areas. But no secondary level teacher in America has a non-discipline related degree in 'education.' It doesn't exist.
Technically we're not saying quite the same thing. Your original statement was that teachers at the secondary levels have degrees in those fields. Not required, people can have education degrees and teach specialized subjects at the secondary level if they meet the other course requirements. It is not uncommon for someone to have a degree in education with a minor in a specialization field (math, history, science, etc) and therefore qualify to teach at the secondary level. Then of course there are - what we call - Career Switchers, people that have a degree in a different area - in this example, say Engineering - that will qualify for and receive a provisional license to teach while they complete the education requirements.
So no, the premise is slightly different then your original statement. You do not have to be degreed in the subject to teach it at the secondary level. You can have an education degree with sufficient course hours to teach that subject.
>>>>
There is no such thing for teachers in America at the secondary level to have a purely 'education' degree. There is no such thing.
Sure there is.
Please, I work in the Human Resources office of a school system and work with teacher licensure issues. We have many teachers at the secondary level with "education" degrees who have completed the number of coursework hours to then specialize in a subject at the secondary level. (In addition to taking required PRAXIS tests in the specialty area.)
Or you can get a degree in another subject, and add the required coursework to meet the state requirements for that subject.
Here is the link to the Virginia Teacher Requirements -->> http://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching/licensure/licensure_regs.pdf
If we look at Math you have (emphasis mine):
8VAC20-22-430. Mathematics.
Endorsement requirements. The candidate must have:
1. Graduated from an approved teacher preparation program in mathematics; or
2. Completed a major in mathematics or 36 semester hours of coursework
distributed in each of the
following areas:
Teacher preparation programs are a degree in education. To qualify for the math endorsement you have to have completed the prescribed coursework in math, but the degree can still be in education. Or you can get a degree in math, and complete education coursework.
Either way works.
There is no such thing in secondary education as a vague, not specific degree in 'education.' It doesn't exist. Not in America.
Sure there is, although they are not "vague", they can be education degrees through a specific teacher prep program.
When I was looking at retiring from the Navy I was going to be a Tech Ed teacher at a Middle School. I completed a Teacher Prep program through the local state University to become a Secondary School Technology Education Teacher. The program was through the Universities Education College, the degree was awarded as a Bachelor's of Science in Education with a specialty in Technology Education. That degree, as part of an approved teacher prep program, qualified me to teach Tech Ed at the secondary level, yet it was still and "education" degree. It did not come from the College of Engineering and Sciences.
You may be referring to teachers who have a degree in teaching one subject and add to it certain requirements so they can teach in other areas. But no secondary level teacher in America has a non-discipline related degree in 'education.' It doesn't exist.
Same thing.
A teacher can have a degree in Elementary Education (Pre-K to 6), complete the additional coursework and get a math endorsement. Then can then have a job as a Math Teacher at the secondary level without a math degree. I can get a degree in Political Science, complete 36 hours of math (either as part of the original degree or as later work) and the education classes and become a licensed teacher with an endorsement in Math. In that case I'd have a BS in Political Science and then be teaching Math.
****************************************
Bottom line is there are two methods to teaching at the secondary level.
1. Get a degree in the subject, then take additional education coursework. A math major can take education courses and teach math.
2. Get a degree in **other than the subject**, then take additional coursework in the subject (if not already met by the degree requirements of the originating degree). An education major, who also completes the math coursework can teach math. An Engineering major (most likely) will have enough math coursework, that they would only need a few education courses. Either way the individual ends up teaching Math at the secondary level.
******************************************************
P.S. I just looked at 3 math teachers in one of our High Schools. Two have degrees in Math, one has a BS in Education and completed the coursework/testing for the Math endorsement. Therefore he has a degree in Education and teaches math at the secondary level.
>>>>
The thing is you don't really understand it. There is no way someone goes into a university to sign up for a program in secondary education without specifiying a discipline or subject or content area. No one gets a degree in just education at the secondary level. You are confused by the language and the terms endorsement and necessary course requirements. It all means that a person gets a degree in the subject area which includes coursework in education, not the other way around. The bulk of your course work is in the subject area, not in education courses. The person who has a BS in Education with a math endorcement I can assure you has taken far more courses in math than in education. Secondary teachers who have a degree that says education with an endorcesment in a subject area take virtually the same courses in that subject area as those who get a degree in that subject area. If they didn't, they would be unfit to teach the subject area. The diplomas may have different wording, but the course of study is virtually the same except that those who did not study in a program that included education courses but want to teach have to then take more courses in order to become teachers.
There is no way you walk into an university and say you want to get an 'education degree' at the secondary level without linking it to a specific discipline. Your can take some education courses, but you must do the course work in a specific field to get a degree. There is no four year degree at the secondary level in just 'education' by itself. It does not exist.
Do you not realize that teachers have degrees in those fields in addition to their education credentials? You don't teach in any of those disciplines without getting a degree in them.
