Why do you personallly hate Christianity?

[BluePhantom]

Again you need to learn some fucking history before you start popping off about things you don't know about. No one knows who started hostilities in the Crusades. The Byzantines, Muslims and Western Europeans had been fighting for decades. At one point before the Crusades the Muslims had pushed into modern day Spain and were killing Christians who refused to convert to Islam. The Muslims were hammering the shit out of the Byzantine's southern border.

This idea that Christians got a wild hare up their asses and went slaughtering innocent, peaceful Muslims who never did anyone any harm is a total crock of shit. The Muslims were just as aggressive and just as bad with the indiscriminate slaughter.

Christians had a grand ole time slaughtering each other for hundreds of years not to mention those in places they colonized who were of "heathen" beliefs.

I am not debating that. I am merely correcting Campbell's bullshit statement that the Muslims were peaceful and never did anyone any harm and the Christians attacked them for no reason. The guy is either trying to revise history to attack Christians or he is totally ignorant of history. One way or the other he is not doing much for his credibility.

 

[LittleNipper]

This may offer some light ------- History of the Crusades Against Jihad (1095 - 1297)

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

I am not debating that. I am merely correcting Campbell's bullshit statement that the Muslims were peaceful and never did anyone any harm and the Christians attacked them for no reason. The guy is either trying to revise history to attack Christians or he is totally ignorant of history. One way or the other he is not doing much for his credibility.

Anti-theism people are more often than not anti-Christianity-specifically anyway. If it makes Christians look bad then it's true. If it makes them look human then it's bullshit. If it makes other religions look good then that's still good for the overall agenda because it makes them look better than Christians. This is why we must speak of Christianity's flaws, other religions' virtues, and nothing else. I notice this as an atheist.

 

[Montrovant]

I am not debating that. I am merely correcting Campbell's bullshit statement that the Muslims were peaceful and never did anyone any harm and the Christians attacked them for no reason. The guy is either trying to revise history to attack Christians or he is totally ignorant of history. One way or the other he is not doing much for his credibility.

Anti-theism people are more often than not anti-Christianity-specifically anyway. If it makes Christians look bad then it's true. If it makes them look human then it's bullshit. If it makes other religions look good then that's still good for the overall agenda because it makes them look better than Christians. This is why we must speak of Christianity's flaws, other religions' virtues, and nothing else. I notice this as an atheist.

You don't think that might be true in the US because of the enormous disparity in number of believers between Christianity and all other religions? When 70-80% of people identify themselves as Christian, of course that is the religion non-believers are likely to have most issue with.

I find all religions to be fairly ridiculous. There are some good aspects but some of the things people are willing to believe about their god(s) leave me confounded. Do I hate Christianity? Sure. And Judaism, and Islam, and Hinduism, etc. etc.. Religion is one of the biggest examples of how little I understand my fellow humans. I hate that people en masse can believe things that I find so impossible to believe.

 

[zaangalewa]

... I'm talking about the Crusades. Any Junior High School student knows about hundreds of thousands of Christians under the banner of Christianity traveling from Europe to the middle east and slaughtering innocent women and children simply because they didn't believe in the same invisible man in the sky. ...

Time to try to learn something about real history. The Seljuks (a turkish tribe) conquered Jerusalem and Mekka and the Normans (a german tribe) conquered England. Then ...

 

[Campbell]

... I'm talking about the Crusades. Any Junior High School student knows about hundreds of thousands of Christians under the banner of Christianity traveling from Europe to the middle east and slaughtering innocent women and children simply because they didn't believe in the same invisible man in the sky. ...

Time to try to learn something about real history. The Seljuks (a turkish tribe) conquered Jerusalem and Mekka and the Normans (a german tribe) conquered England. Then ...

LOL! I thought we were discussing the Crusades and various other miserable activities by the Christians.

 

[CremeBrulee]

Communist atheists in only 80 years killed about 94 million! And the number of deaths caused by atheism is much higher. An atheist, Stalin, along with his fellow Christian-hater Hitler started the worst war in human history. And don't forget all the deaths caused by right wing atheists like Mussolini, who was in part inspired by another blood-thirsty atheist Nietzsche. And don't forget the Armenian genocide, committed by secular fanatics: the Young Turks.

Please also remember that the austere atheist philosophy has never attracted a large number of believers. Under 3% of the world population is atheist. So a small number of atheists are responsible for a tremendous amount of carnage. On a per capita basis atheists are by far the worst murderers in human history.

I don't hate Christians or Christianity for that matter. Just assertions such as those. Atheism is not a philosophy or a belief system like you claim. Your links have nothing to do with atheists. One is a Wikipedia page about a book and the other is an argument about the Soviet Union winning World War 2. I also missed the part where you established those three WERE atheists. The words in a link don't make it true. You are supporting a tu quo que with false cause.

 

[zaangalewa]

"

... I'm talking about the Crusades. Any Junior High School student knows about hundreds of thousands of Christians under the banner of Christianity traveling from Europe to the middle east and slaughtering innocent women and children simply because they didn't believe in the same invisible man in the sky. ...

Time to try to learn something about real history. The Seljuks (a turkish tribe) conquered Jerusalem and Mekka and the Normans (a german tribe) conquered England. Then ...

LOL! I thought we were discussing the Crusades and various other miserable activities by the Christians.

Crusade is another word for the little jihad. It's not directly a christian way. "We" - the Franks - learned this way from Muslims. And like all antispiritual people you are not used to think about what you cannot see. Mekka is for example not a nuclear hell.

 

[Campbell]

"

... I'm talking about the Crusades. Any Junior High School student knows about hundreds of thousands of Christians under the banner of Christianity traveling from Europe to the middle east and slaughtering innocent women and children simply because they didn't believe in the same invisible man in the sky. ...

Time to try to learn something about real history. The Seljuks (a turkish tribe) conquered Jerusalem and Mekka and the Normans (a german tribe) conquered England. Then ...

LOL! I thought we were discussing the Crusades and various other miserable activities by the Christians.

Crusade is another word for the little jihad. It's not directly a christian way. "We" - the Franks - learned this way from Muslims. And like all antispiritual people you are not used to think about what you cannot see. Mekka is for example not a nuclear hell.

Well.....here's basically what youngsters are learning:

"The Crusades were military campaigns sanctioned by the Latin Roman Catholic Church during the High Middle Ages and Late Middle Ages. In 1095 Pope Urban II proclaimed the First Crusade with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to holy places in and near Jerusalem."

You do realize this was a war with a mission don't you? You do realize that the invasion of sovereign countries was required don't you? You do realize that war is hell don't you? Death, misery starvation, rape and pillaging accompany every war.....Christian or not.

 

[Campbell]

Again you need to learn some fucking history before you start popping off about things you don't know about. No one knows who started hostilities in the Crusades. The Byzantines, Muslims and Western Europeans had been fighting for decades. At one point before the Crusades the Muslims had pushed into modern day Spain and were killing Christians who refused to convert to Islam. The Muslims were hammering the shit out of the Byzantine's southern border.

This idea that Christians got a wild hare up their asses and went slaughtering innocent, peaceful Muslims who never did anyone any harm is a total crock of shit. The Muslims were just as aggressive and just as bad with the indiscriminate slaughter.

Christians had a grand ole time slaughtering each other for hundreds of years not to mention those in places they colonized who were of "heathen" beliefs.

I am not debating that. I am merely correcting Campbell's bullshit statement that the Muslims were peaceful and never did anyone any harm and the Christians attacked them for no reason. The guy is either trying to revise history to attack Christians or he is totally ignorant of history. One way or the other he is not doing much for his credibility.

Hey numbnuts!!! Where did you get the idea that I said Muslims never did anybody any harm??

You should get your glasses changed...or get a brain transplant! Knowing your obvious ability or lack thereof I'd guess you will waste money on the glasses.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Well.....here's basically what youngsters are learning:

"The Crusades were military campaigns sanctioned by the Latin Roman Catholic Church during the High Middle Ages and Late Middle Ages. In 1095 Pope Urban II proclaimed the First Crusade with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to holy places in and near Jerusalem."

You do realize this was a war with a mission don't you? You do realize that the invasion of sovereign countries was required don't you? You do realize that war is hell don't you? Death, misery starvation, rape and pillaging accompany every war.....Christian or not.

You might want to reread that. Why did that access need to be restored? Why were the Christian, Byzantine lands of the Middle East suddenly neither? Maybe it was because a budding non-Christian empire hostile to Byzantine power had recently swept out of Arabia and took them over?

 

[Campbell]

Well.....here's basically what youngsters are learning:

"The Crusades were military campaigns sanctioned by the Latin Roman Catholic Church during the High Middle Ages and Late Middle Ages. In 1095 Pope Urban II proclaimed the First Crusade with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to holy places in and near Jerusalem."

You do realize this was a war with a mission don't you? You do realize that the invasion of sovereign countries was required don't you? You do realize that war is hell don't you? Death, misery starvation, rape and pillaging accompany every war.....Christian or not.

You might want to reread that. Why did that access need to be restored? Why were the Christian, Byzantine lands of the Middle East suddenly neither? Maybe it was because a budding non-Christian empire hostile to Byzantine power had recently swept out of Arabia and took them over?

You might want to reread the entire thread...not just a selected post. Did you schedule your brain surgery yet?

 

[zaangalewa]

"

... I'm talking about the Crusades. Any Junior High School student knows about hundreds of thousands of Christians under the banner of Christianity traveling from Europe to the middle east and slaughtering innocent women and children simply because they didn't believe in the same invisible man in the sky. ...

Time to try to learn something about real history. The Seljuks (a turkish tribe) conquered Jerusalem and Mekka and the Normans (a german tribe) conquered England. Then ...

LOL! I thought we were discussing the Crusades and various other miserable activities by the Christians.

Crusade is another word for the little jihad. It's not directly a christian way. "We" - the Franks - learned this way from Muslims. And like all antispiritual people you are not used to think about what you cannot see. Mekka is for example not a nuclear hell.

Well.....here's basically what youngsters are learning:

"The Crusades were military campaigns sanctioned by the Latin Roman Catholic Church during the High Middle Ages and Late Middle Ages. In 1095 Pope Urban II proclaimed the First Crusade with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to holy places in and near Jerusalem."

That's correct. But what was the inspiration for the completly new idea "crusade"? What changed in history?

You do realize this was a war with a mission don't you?

Mission? I would call it a kind of minimal invasive military operation. The Cruasders cooperated with and against Muslims like Muslims cooperated with each other and/or the crusaders.

You do realize that the invasion of sovereign countries was required don't you?

No - because such things were not existing in those days.

You do realize that war is hell don't you? Death, misery starvation, rape and pillaging accompany every war.....Christian or not.

War is to kill enemies before the enemies kill oneselve. It's by the way fascinating to see that even hundreds of years later lots of people are still fascinated from the knights of the crusades.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Well.....here's basically what youngsters are learning:

"The Crusades were military campaigns sanctioned by the Latin Roman Catholic Church during the High Middle Ages and Late Middle Ages. In 1095 Pope Urban II proclaimed the First Crusade with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to holy places in and near Jerusalem."

You do realize this was a war with a mission don't you? You do realize that the invasion of sovereign countries was required don't you? You do realize that war is hell don't you? Death, misery starvation, rape and pillaging accompany every war.....Christian or not.

You might want to reread that. Why did that access need to be restored? Why were the Christian, Byzantine lands of the Middle East suddenly neither? Maybe it was because a budding non-Christian empire hostile to Byzantine power had recently swept out of Arabia and took them over?

You might want to reread the entire thread...not just a selected post. Did you schedule your brain surgery yet?

Nah, the one where you inadvertently admitted that the Middle East was accessible to Western Christians until it suddenly wasn't for mysterious, totally unexplained reasons is fine.

Nobody is saying that the wars were great. Nobody is saying that what we would recognize as clear war crimes weren't committed. Nobody is defending them. Nobody is excusing the Christians' role in the whole situation. What is happening is that we're saying the Muslims also had a role in it and you're denying that fact point blank. I can only assume you're just absolving the Muslims to make the Christians look worse. Now that we've established your hate for Christianity we can move away from your derail to the actual topic at hand: why do you hate it?

 

[Campbell]

"

... I'm talking about the Crusades. Any Junior High School student knows about hundreds of thousands of Christians under the banner of Christianity traveling from Europe to the middle east and slaughtering innocent women and children simply because they didn't believe in the same invisible man in the sky. ...

Time to try to learn something about real history. The Seljuks (a turkish tribe) conquered Jerusalem and Mekka and the Normans (a german tribe) conquered England. Then ...

LOL! I thought we were discussing the Crusades and various other miserable activities by the Christians.

Crusade is another word for the little jihad. It's not directly a christian way. "We" - the Franks - learned this way from Muslims. And like all antispiritual people you are not used to think about what you cannot see. Mekka is for example not a nuclear hell.

Well.....here's basically what youngsters are learning:

"The Crusades were military campaigns sanctioned by the Latin Roman Catholic Church during the High Middle Ages and Late Middle Ages. In 1095 Pope Urban II proclaimed the First Crusade with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to holy places in and near Jerusalem."

That's correct. But what was the inspiration for the completly new idea "crusade"? What changed in history?

You do realize this was a war with a mission don't you?

Mission? I would call it a kind of minimal invasive military operation. The Cruasders cooperated with and against Muslims like Muslims cooperated with each other and/or the crusaders.

You do realize that the invasion of sovereign countries was required don't you?

No - because such things were not existing in those days.

You do realize that war is hell don't you? Death, misery starvation, rape and pillaging accompany every war.....Christian or not.

War is to kill enemies before the enemies kill oneselve. It's by the way fascinating to see that even hundreds of years later lots of people are still fascinated from the knights of the crusades.

LOL...you're hopeless, absolutely hopeless. As my maternal grandmother used to say, "You Would Stand Flat Footed And Argue With A Stop Sign!"

The idea that a massive group of people could see their closest friends and comrades raped, slaughtered and dismembered and not respond in kind is a fairy tale. Like I said, "War Is Hell!"

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

"

Time to try to learn something about real history. The Seljuks (a turkish tribe) conquered Jerusalem and Mekka and the Normans (a german tribe) conquered England. Then ...

LOL! I thought we were discussing the Crusades and various other miserable activities by the Christians.

Crusade is another word for the little jihad. It's not directly a christian way. "We" - the Franks - learned this way from Muslims. And like all antispiritual people you are not used to think about what you cannot see. Mekka is for example not a nuclear hell.

Well.....here's basically what youngsters are learning:

"The Crusades were military campaigns sanctioned by the Latin Roman Catholic Church during the High Middle Ages and Late Middle Ages. In 1095 Pope Urban II proclaimed the First Crusade with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to holy places in and near Jerusalem."

That's correct. But what was the inspiration for the completly new idea "crusade"? What changed in history?

You do realize this was a war with a mission don't you?

Mission? I would call it a kind of minimal invasive military operation. The Cruasders cooperated with and against Muslims like Muslims cooperated with each other and/or the crusaders.

You do realize that the invasion of sovereign countries was required don't you?

No - because such things were not existing in those days.

You do realize that war is hell don't you? Death, misery starvation, rape and pillaging accompany every war.....Christian or not.

War is to kill enemies before the enemies kill oneselve. It's by the way fascinating to see that even hundreds of years later lots of people are still fascinated from the knights of the crusades.

LOL...you're hopeless, absolutely hopeless. As my maternal grandmother used to say, "You Would Stand Flat Footed And Argue With A Stop Sign!"

The idea that a massive group of people could see their closest friends and comrades raped, slaughtered and dismembered and not respond in kind is a fairy tale.

Exactly. Nobody is disputing that the wars happened. What's under dispute is why they happened. Who fired the first shot? How did this Christian, Byzantine ruled region suddenly become Islamic and Arab ruled if the Arabs didn't conquer it?

 

[BluePhantom]

"

... I'm talking about the Crusades. Any Junior High School student knows about hundreds of thousands of Christians under the banner of Christianity traveling from Europe to the middle east and slaughtering innocent women and children simply because they didn't believe in the same invisible man in the sky. ...

Time to try to learn something about real history. The Seljuks (a turkish tribe) conquered Jerusalem and Mekka and the Normans (a german tribe) conquered England. Then ...

LOL! I thought we were discussing the Crusades and various other miserable activities by the Christians.

Crusade is another word for the little jihad. It's not directly a christian way. "We" - the Franks - learned this way from Muslims. And like all antispiritual people you are not used to think about what you cannot see. Mekka is for example not a nuclear hell.

Well.....here's basically what youngsters are learning:

"The Crusades were military campaigns sanctioned by the Latin Roman Catholic Church during the High Middle Ages and Late Middle Ages. In 1095 Pope Urban II proclaimed the First Crusade with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to holy places in and near Jerusalem."

Yes that's true...but why did they have to "restore access"? It had to be restored because it had been conquered by the Muslims. Or do you think the Christians just gave it all to them as a show of generosity? The Muslims were pounding the hell out of the Byzantines (who were being ineptly ruled) and were in real danger of being conquered. The Byzantines begged the Pope for help from Western Europe and appealed to them as fellow Christians. The Pope, realizing that no Western European nation was going to put their asses on the line for the Byzantines alone, focused on restoring Jerusalem to give them a better motivation. It worked.

The point is that the Muslims were not sitting there minding their own business when the Christians attacked them without provocation. There had been wars between the three Empires for centuries and Western Europe got into it because the Muslims were actively kicking the shit out of the Christian Byzantines.

 

[koshergrl]

Hate's a strong word. I don't hate Christians (or Jews or Muslims or Buddhists or Shintoists or anyone one else). I just don't believe in their mythologies and think it's sad that so many of them simply dismiss science out of hand because of childhood indoctrination and tradition.

That said, I have no use whatsoever for anyone who demands laws others must live by because of their interpretation of Bronze Age creation myths, or those who use those texts to justify bigotry and hate, and certainly no use for anyone who would kill and maim and terrorize someone else based entirely on which make-believe pixie is the right one to follow.

I have no use for people whose own limited understanding of science leads them to believe that their own theories, based in a mishmash if history channel specials and their own disorganized thought processes applied to incomplete and false information they have collected sans scientific method, is somehow superior to the belief systems of others. It's endlessly boring to listen to uneducated, clueless bigots insist they are magically justified in their bigotry because they believe in "science" that they don't understand and can't prove.

 

[BluePhantom]

"

Time to try to learn something about real history. The Seljuks (a turkish tribe) conquered Jerusalem and Mekka and the Normans (a german tribe) conquered England. Then ...

LOL! I thought we were discussing the Crusades and various other miserable activities by the Christians.

Crusade is another word for the little jihad. It's not directly a christian way. "We" - the Franks - learned this way from Muslims. And like all antispiritual people you are not used to think about what you cannot see. Mekka is for example not a nuclear hell.

Well.....here's basically what youngsters are learning:

"The Crusades were military campaigns sanctioned by the Latin Roman Catholic Church during the High Middle Ages and Late Middle Ages. In 1095 Pope Urban II proclaimed the First Crusade with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to holy places in and near Jerusalem."

That's correct. But what was the inspiration for the completly new idea "crusade"? What changed in history?

You do realize this was a war with a mission don't you?

Mission? I would call it a kind of minimal invasive military operation. The Cruasders cooperated with and against Muslims like Muslims cooperated with each other and/or the crusaders.

You do realize that the invasion of sovereign countries was required don't you?

No - because such things were not existing in those days.

You do realize that war is hell don't you? Death, misery starvation, rape and pillaging accompany every war.....Christian or not.

War is to kill enemies before the enemies kill oneselve. It's by the way fascinating to see that even hundreds of years later lots of people are still fascinated from the knights of the crusades.

LOL...you're hopeless, absolutely hopeless. As my maternal grandmother used to say, "You Would Stand Flat Footed And Argue With A Stop Sign!"

The idea that a massive group of people could see their closest friends and comrades raped, slaughtered and dismembered and not respond in kind is a fairy tale. Like I said, "War Is Hell!"

You mean like the Muslims were raping, slaughtering, and dismembering the Byzantines?

 

[Campbell]

"

LOL! I thought we were discussing the Crusades and various other miserable activities by the Christians.

Crusade is another word for the little jihad. It's not directly a christian way. "We" - the Franks - learned this way from Muslims. And like all antispiritual people you are not used to think about what you cannot see. Mekka is for example not a nuclear hell.

Well.....here's basically what youngsters are learning:

"The Crusades were military campaigns sanctioned by the Latin Roman Catholic Church during the High Middle Ages and Late Middle Ages. In 1095 Pope Urban II proclaimed the First Crusade with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to holy places in and near Jerusalem."

That's correct. But what was the inspiration for the completly new idea "crusade"? What changed in history?

You do realize this was a war with a mission don't you?

Mission? I would call it a kind of minimal invasive military operation. The Cruasders cooperated with and against Muslims like Muslims cooperated with each other and/or the crusaders.

You do realize that the invasion of sovereign countries was required don't you?

No - because such things were not existing in those days.

You do realize that war is hell don't you? Death, misery starvation, rape and pillaging accompany every war.....Christian or not.

War is to kill enemies before the enemies kill oneselve. It's by the way fascinating to see that even hundreds of years later lots of people are still fascinated from the knights of the crusades.

LOL...you're hopeless, absolutely hopeless. As my maternal grandmother used to say, "You Would Stand Flat Footed And Argue With A Stop Sign!"

The idea that a massive group of people could see their closest friends and comrades raped, slaughtered and dismembered and not respond in kind is a fairy tale.

Exactly. Nobody is disputing that the wars happened. What's under dispute is why they happened. Who fired the first shot? How did this Christian, Byzantine ruled region suddenly become Islamic and Arab ruled if the Arabs didn't conquer it?

My part of this bullshit verbal interaction is over, ended, completed, finished, extinct, doomed etc.