Why doesn't meat help meat eaters be healthy?

[Blues Man]

Careful Blues, you are dangerously close to attacking (def: aggressive disagreement).

And you are very close to being an overly sensitive snowflake if you think that was an "attack".

 

[Blues Man]

Most vegans are liberal and national health is a very political concern. Fad diets like veganism are not the way forward to better national health.

You'll never get it though your skull that veganism is about ethics not about diet or health.

And the national health hasn't done very well on a meat based diet has it?

Record obesity, heart disease is the number one killer, Type 2 diabetes, hypertension high cholesterol cancer etc.

All attributed to diets consisting of predominately animal products.

 

[buttercup]

Where did I say I got all my info from a single article?

Dr Dean Ornish
Dr Caldwell Esselstyn
Dr Michael Gregor
T Colin Campbell PhD
Dr John McDougal

To name a few of my sources.

Speaking of vegan doctors, Dr. Ellsworth Wareham lived to be 104, and worked until he was 95! He was vegan for about half his life.

All the non-vegans here should watch this short video:

 

[Woodznutz]

So what? You said yourself this is the topic of the thread.

When you use words like "defending" you are making this argument emotional.

There is more than enough evidence that diets with excessive amounts of animal products are unhealthy.

Why do yo take it so personally?

Thanks for the qualifier, excessive amounts of meat. In this I agree. Sadly, all who condemn meat eating use this qualifier, as if people are eating the whole animal at one sitting. How would eating a whole field of green beans in one meal fit into the discussion?

 

[Blues Man]

Humane is a relative term. Farm animals live a pretty good life, and death is swift. Not so in nature where such animals live in constant fear to the point of paranoia and usually die a horrible death.

You opinion.

I don't think being killed unnecessarily at less than 2 years old to be a """pretty good life" for any animal.

I don't consider cows having their calves removed right after birth so they can be killed as a "pretty good life"

I don't consider pigs being gassed at 6 months old as "a pretty good life"

 

[Blues Man]

It seems that minorities have the most health problems. Take them out of the equation and our health isn't too bad.

Of course, it's not generally healthy to eat too much meat. Eating too much of anything-overeating- is bad for health. However, there those on all meat diets that are perfectly healthy. As I stated earlier I eat one-fifth of the average meat consumption. If everyone ate like me America would be the healthiest place on earth, with the longest life-span.

Once food, any food, is chewed up and swallowed it is all chemistry from there on down. It's no longer meat or vegetables, it's just chemicals. So don't blame certain foods for our health problems, it's more complicated than that.

That fact that so many people don't remain on specialized voluntary diets such as vegan puts it in fad diet category.

No doctor that knows anything about nutrition would say an all meat diet is healthy in the long term because it's not.

 

[Woodznutz]

You'll never get it though your skull that veganism is about ethics not about diet or health.

And the national health hasn't done very well on a meat based diet has it?

Record obesity, heart disease is the number one killer, Type 2 diabetes, hypertension high cholesterol cancer etc.

All attributed to diets consisting of predominately animal products.

This is not the ethics forum.

False. Overeating (and undereating) and poor digestion are the cause of poor health.

 

[Woodznutz]

No doctor that knows anything about nutrition would say an all meat diet is healthy in the long term because it's not.

Well, I certainly wouldn't do it.

 

[Blues Man]

Same here. It really is very interesting…from a psychological standpoint. But it's not that hard to figure out. The reason why people feel threatened by vegans is because even without saying a word (even just the presence of a vegan at a dinner table) it challenges their lifestyle and daily habits.

And of course no one likes to think that they're doing something wrong or unethical. So a person's immediate reaction is defensiveness.

And then, some people go on the attack, because they want so badly to maintain the status quo that they feel a movement that challenges the status quo must be crushed.

It also challenges their perceptions of their own ethical hypocrisy. They would rather stay blind to the cruelty so they can enjoy their bacon.

That's why they get so triggered, IMO

I would like to see any of these people walk through a slaughterhouse and then get their opinions on the meat industry.

I put odds that they don't get 20 feet in the door without being sickened by it.

 

[Woodznutz]

No doctor that knows anything about nutrition would say an all meat diet is healthy in the long term because it's not.

Doctors reap a rich harvest from sick people.

 

[Woodznutz]

It also challenges their perceptions of their own ethical hypocrisy. They would rather stay blind to the cruelty so they can enjoy their bacon.

That's why they get so triggered, IMO

I would like to see any of these people walk through a slaughterhouse and then get their opinions on the meat industry.

I put odds that they don't get 20 feet in the door without being sickened by it.

Pretty arrogant and self-righteous of both of you.

 

[Blues Man]

False. Overeating (and undereating) and poor digestion are the cause of poor health.

OK then why do so many people who aren't fat take blood pressure medicines?
Cholesterol meds?

Why are kids as young as 12 or 13 showing signs of atherosclerosis?

Why has the life expectancy of Americans been lowered for the first time in history?

It's our food industry telling lies to people and controlling politicians.

If the recommendations were to eat meat less than 3 days a week would you follow it?

If it were only to eat game meats which are the only meat that is actually close to natural would you stop buying factory farmed unnatural meat?

What about milk and dairy? It's unnatural for humans to drink cows milk but that's OK with you right?

The fact of the matter is meat in unnecessary in the modern industrialized. If meat in unnecessary then factory farming and it's inherent cruelty is unnecessary.

Factory farming is an environmental nightmare is a huge drain on water resources

 

[Blues Man]

Doctors reap a rich harvest from sick people.

No the drug companies that own politicians do.

And the meat lobby is right in Big pharma's back pocket.

 

[Blues Man]

Pretty arrogant and self-righteous of both of you.

It's my observation.

I find it amusing that people will cheer on a cow that escapes a pen at the slaughter house but then will think nothing of the other 10000 that were killed that day while they inhale their Big Mac

Or when some hungry guy kills a swan that lived in a park people got all outraged on their way to get their KFC

It's pure hypocrisy

 

[buttercup]

It also challenges their perceptions of their own ethical hypocrisy. They would rather stay blind to the cruelty so they can enjoy their bacon.

That's why they get so triggered, IMO

I would like to see any of these people walk through a slaughterhouse and then get their opinions on the meat industry.

I put odds that they don't get 20 feet in the door without being sickened by it.

EXACTLY.

There's a lot of cognitive dissonance that goes on, especially in meat-eaters who love animals, or at least claim to.

I know that from experience, because I remember before going vegan, I was starting to hear some things about the animal industries, and as an animal lover I started to question my own position. I even wrote a blog post titled something like "The animal loving meat eater?" It wasn't until I saw the graphic video footage that I FINALLY was jarred awake and went vegan almost overnight. (I still ate seafood for a couple months but then gave that up too and went fully vegan in 2016.)

There's definitely a lot of willful blindness that goes on. Here's a picture of that:

 

[buttercup]

It's my observation.

I find it amusing that people will cheer on a cow that escapes a pen at the slaughter house but then will think nothing of the other 10000 that were killed that day while they inhale their Big Mac

Or when some hungry guy kills a swan that lived in a park people got all outraged on their way to get their KFC

It's pure hypocrisy

YES, it's so true what you're saying! (And I think they know it) The cognitive dissonance is off the charts.

The thing is, sometimes it takes a while for people to realize that. So contrary to Woodnutz' accusation a few posts up, I can't judge people like that because I myself was like that too, for a time.

HOWEVER, there does come a point when one can no longer deny the cognitive dissonance, and that's where it goes from either a) taking the knowledge you've been exposed to and finally aligning your professed values with your actions, or b) willful blindness and choosing to remain in that cognitive dissonance. The latter is very disappointing, when that happens.

 

[buttercup]

I find it amusing that people will cheer on a cow that escapes a pen at the slaughter house but then will think nothing of the other 10000 that were killed that day while they inhale their Big Mac

Speaking of cows that escaped a slaughterhouse, I wish everyone would watch this story. Definitely worth watching:

 

[Woodznutz]

EXACTLY.

There's a lot of cognitive dissonance that goes on, especially in meat-eaters who love animals, or at least claim to.

I know that from experience, because I remember before going vegan, I was starting to hear some things about the animal industries, and as an animal lover I started to question my own position. I even wrote a blog post titled something like "The animal loving meat eater?" It wasn't until I saw the graphic video footage that I FINALLY was jarred awake and went vegan almost overnight. (I still ate seafood for a couple months but then gave that up too and went fully vegan in 2016.)

There's definitely a lot of willful blindness that goes on. Here's a picture of that:

I know the truth. I worked in a slaughterhouse. I still love animals, and I eat animals, and I'm not nuts.

 

[Woodznutz]

OK then why do so many people who aren't fat take blood pressure medicines?
Cholesterol meds?

Why are kids as young as 12 or 13 showing signs of atherosclerosis?

Why has the life expectancy of Americans been lowered for the first time in history?

It's our food industry telling lies to people and controlling politicians.

If the recommendations were to eat meat less than 3 days a week would you follow it?

If it were only to eat game meats which are the only meat that is actually close to natural would you stop buying factory farmed unnatural meat?

What about milk and dairy? It's unnatural for humans to drink cows milk but that's OK with you right?

The fact of the matter is meat in unnecessary in the modern industrialized. If meat in unnecessary then factory farming and it's inherent cruelty is unnecessary.

Factory farming is an environmental nightmare is a huge drain on water resources

Of course, the meat industry needs improving but you don't throw the baby out with the wash water. What you are suggesting is more than that however. You are suggesting a wholesale change in human nature. Only God can do that.

 

[Woodznutz]

It's my observation.

I find it amusing that people will cheer on a cow that escapes a pen at the slaughter house but then will think nothing of the other 10000 that were killed that day while they inhale their Big Mac

Or when some hungry guy kills a swan that lived in a park people got all outraged on their way to get their KFC

It's pure hypocrisy.

No hypocrisy. Not every animal is seen as food by meat eaters; dogs, cats, horses, other pet types as well as 'unclean' animals. Some dogs even help hunters bring home game. How weird is that?