Debate Now Why Is Being "Politically Correct" A Bad Thing To Some People?

[dilloduck]

If I had overtly said that I could read your mind would you have taken offense ?

Yep.

I would have never in a million years guessed that you would take offense if someone said they would read your mind. Do you expect everyone to know that about you ?

I'm not going to fall over and roll up into a ball or something. Its the unmitigated gall that someone would really think they could read my mind.

No I wouldnt expect anyone to know that. I would expect them to consider that its possible.

Then you may as well make out a list of all the things that are going to bother you and pass them out BEFORE you converse with anyone because ANYTHING is possible.

Not really. I can point out along the way what is offensive or not. There is no way I can predict all scenarios before hand.

Why don't you just get over it and save everyone including yourself all the trouble...............Is it because you can't get over it and the feelings control you ?

 

[Asclepias]

Yep.

I would have never in a million years guessed that you would take offense if someone said they would read your mind. Do you expect everyone to know that about you ?

I'm not going to fall over and roll up into a ball or something. Its the unmitigated gall that someone would really think they could read my mind.

No I wouldnt expect anyone to know that. I would expect them to consider that its possible.

Then you may as well make out a list of all the things that are going to bother you and pass them out BEFORE you converse with anyone because ANYTHING is possible.

Not really. I can point out along the way what is offensive or not. There is no way I can predict all scenarios before hand.

Why don't you just get over it and save everyone including yourself all the trouble...............Is it because you can't get over it and the feelings control you ?

Because I see no need to retard any of my faculties by which I am able to relate to the world and other people. Its like asking me to make myself go blind. Emotions help us connect with the world around us and help us define ourselves which is our right.

 

[dilloduck]

I would have never in a million years guessed that you would take offense if someone said they would read your mind. Do you expect everyone to know that about you ?

I'm not going to fall over and roll up into a ball or something. Its the unmitigated gall that someone would really think they could read my mind.

No I wouldnt expect anyone to know that. I would expect them to consider that its possible.

Then you may as well make out a list of all the things that are going to bother you and pass them out BEFORE you converse with anyone because ANYTHING is possible.

Not really. I can point out along the way what is offensive or not. There is no way I can predict all scenarios before hand.

Why don't you just get over it and save everyone including yourself all the trouble...............Is it because you can't get over it and the feelings control you ?

Because I see no need to retard any of my faculties by which I am able to relate to the world and other people. Its like asking me to make myself go blind. Emotions help us connect with the world around us and help us define ourselves which is our right.

Emotions come from what we believe. Shutting down conversation because you choose to take offense will stifle learning. No pain No gain

 

[Asclepias]

I'm not going to fall over and roll up into a ball or something. Its the unmitigated gall that someone would really think they could read my mind.

No I wouldnt expect anyone to know that. I would expect them to consider that its possible.

Then you may as well make out a list of all the things that are going to bother you and pass them out BEFORE you converse with anyone because ANYTHING is possible.

Not really. I can point out along the way what is offensive or not. There is no way I can predict all scenarios before hand.

Why don't you just get over it and save everyone including yourself all the trouble...............Is it because you can't get over it and the feelings control you ?

Because I see no need to retard any of my faculties by which I am able to relate to the world and other people. Its like asking me to make myself go blind. Emotions help us connect with the world around us and help us define ourselves which is our right.

Emotions come from what we believe. Shutting down conversation because you choose to take offense will stifle learning. No pain No gain

I dont think you know what you are talking about. Babies dont believe in anything and they have emotions. So do animals. Not much you can learn from someone that lacks the intellect to self censor in order to facilitate conversation. At least not much you cant learn from someone else.

 

[dilloduck]

Then you may as well make out a list of all the things that are going to bother you and pass them out BEFORE you converse with anyone because ANYTHING is possible.

Not really. I can point out along the way what is offensive or not. There is no way I can predict all scenarios before hand.

Why don't you just get over it and save everyone including yourself all the trouble...............Is it because you can't get over it and the feelings control you ?

Because I see no need to retard any of my faculties by which I am able to relate to the world and other people. Its like asking me to make myself go blind. Emotions help us connect with the world around us and help us define ourselves which is our right.

Emotions come from what we believe. Shutting down conversation because you choose to take offense will stifle learning. No pain No gain

I dont think you know what you are talking about. Babies dont believe in anything and they have emotions. So do animals. Not much you can learn from someone that lacks the intellect to self censor in order to facilitate conversation. At least not much you cant learn from someone else.

Whoa dude---you just hurt my feelings. Would you please rephrase that for me please ?

 

[Asclepias]

Not really. I can point out along the way what is offensive or not. There is no way I can predict all scenarios before hand.

Why don't you just get over it and save everyone including yourself all the trouble...............Is it because you can't get over it and the feelings control you ?

Because I see no need to retard any of my faculties by which I am able to relate to the world and other people. Its like asking me to make myself go blind. Emotions help us connect with the world around us and help us define ourselves which is our right.

Emotions come from what we believe. Shutting down conversation because you choose to take offense will stifle learning. No pain No gain

I dont think you know what you are talking about. Babies dont believe in anything and they have emotions. So do animals. Not much you can learn from someone that lacks the intellect to self censor in order to facilitate conversation. At least not much you cant learn from someone else.

Whoa dude---you just hurt my feelings. Would you please rephrase that for me please ?

Which part?

 

[Weatherman2020]

I've seen many times on this board the term "politically correct" being used in derogatory manner. It baffles me to be honest. What is it that would make being politically correct something to frown upon as opposed to a tool to further communication?

Rules:

1. No off topic comments. Please address the question.
2. Be able to prove your position using common sense. No links

And you NAZI fuckheads delete a response on how political correctness led to the San Bernardino terrorist attack in response to a question about why political correctness is bad.

Fuck you.

 

[dilloduck]

Why don't you just get over it and save everyone including yourself all the trouble...............Is it because you can't get over it and the feelings control you ?

Because I see no need to retard any of my faculties by which I am able to relate to the world and other people. Its like asking me to make myself go blind. Emotions help us connect with the world around us and help us define ourselves which is our right.

Emotions come from what we believe. Shutting down conversation because you choose to take offense will stifle learning. No pain No gain

I dont think you know what you are talking about. Babies dont believe in anything and they have emotions. So do animals. Not much you can learn from someone that lacks the intellect to self censor in order to facilitate conversation. At least not much you cant learn from someone else.

Whoa dude---you just hurt my feelings. Would you please rephrase that for me please ?

Which part?

You mean you don't know how to censor yourself either ?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

'Why Is Being "Politically Correct" A Bad Thing To Some People?'

Because some people are ridiculous.

Indeed, it's ridiculous to get upset about something that doesn't exist.

There is no such thing as 'political correctness,' it's a myth contrived by the right in an effort to conceal the racism and bigotry that manifests among the ranks of many republicans and conservatives.

It illustrates how most on the right are hostile to unfettered debate in a free and democratic society, and in the context of private society, where private citizens are at liberty to oppose that which they find offensive, as such opposition neither 'violates' free speech nor manifests as the myth of 'political correctness.'

It was the intent of the Framers that in our free and democratic society the conflicts and controversies of the day might be addressed and resolved by the people through vigorous debate; where the people themselves decide what is or is not appropriate absent unwarranted interference by either the government or the courts, and those who engage in speech or actions repugnant to society as a whole refrain from doing so as a consequence of the admonishment of the people and of their own free will, not by the force of law, in this manner preserving our freedom and liberty.

 

[dilloduck]

'Why Is Being "Politically Correct" A Bad Thing To Some People?'

Because some people are ridiculous.

Indeed, it's ridiculous to get upset about something that doesn't exist.

There is no such thing as 'political correctness,' it's a myth contrived by the right in an effort to conceal the racism and bigotry that manifests among the ranks of many republicans and conservatives.

It illustrates how most on the right are hostile to unfettered debate in a free and democratic society, and in the context of private society, where private citizens are at liberty to oppose that which they find offensive, as such opposition neither 'violates' free speech nor manifests as the myth of 'political correctness.'

It was the intent of the Framers that in our free and democratic society the conflicts and controversies of the day might be addressed and resolved by the people through vigorous debate; where the people themselves decide what is or is not appropriate absent unwarranted interference by either the government or the courts, and those who engage in speech or actions repugnant to society as a whole refrain from doing so as a consequence of the admonishment of the people and of their own free will, not by the force of law, in this manner preserving our freedom and liberty.

Fail----ad hominem

 

[Yarddog]

^ why isn't calling someone a homophobe or islamophobe
equally policed as politically incorrect? ^

what if someone is a raging Constitutionalist who doesn't like the gay agenda
maybe they are a liberal-phobic but not necessarily anti-gay per se

also if someone is not pro-gay that doesn't make them anti-gay or homophobic.
I believe in not pushing either progay or antigay agenda through govt,
but to write the laws neutrally where they don't trigger negative or "phobic" reactions from anyone.

It is politically incorrect language and usually shuts down any conversation.
However if you note, person #1 started the conversation which would make them the one that needed to have an audience and offered the first non PC comments. There is never a guarantee that the person that responds cares to have a conversation at all after the first person started off the conversation in a failed state.

Maybe we should do an experiment then. At the start of each thread, the OP will say whether the thread is a CIVIL/ PC language thread or an open thread, anything goes. Just see what happens and compare the results.

Sounds good. What kind of topic should we do and where should we post it? Matter of fact who should post it? To make it fair it would need to be someone that is not identified with one side or the other.

Immigration/ illegal immigration or refugees. seems to be an issue these days but theres lots of others. Theres always race relations. I wonder also if the emmicons people use would also be considered non PC as well as posted images. I suppose so

So what are we doing exactly? Are we counting how many people from each side gets non PC?

Sorry, I'm a little to busy these days in RL I was away, ahh I guess it might be interesting to see which threads had more posts and flourished better. I guess one of the problems though is a lot of people come here to vent or just cut up, so a more civil discourse thread may not attract them at all, and I get that. It may just be too complicated especially if people didn't want to comply. I don't know, it was just a thought.

 

[Asclepias]

Because I see no need to retard any of my faculties by which I am able to relate to the world and other people. Its like asking me to make myself go blind. Emotions help us connect with the world around us and help us define ourselves which is our right.

Emotions come from what we believe. Shutting down conversation because you choose to take offense will stifle learning. No pain No gain

I dont think you know what you are talking about. Babies dont believe in anything and they have emotions. So do animals. Not much you can learn from someone that lacks the intellect to self censor in order to facilitate conversation. At least not much you cant learn from someone else.

Whoa dude---you just hurt my feelings. Would you please rephrase that for me please ?

Which part?

You mean you don't know how to censor yourself either ?

What gave you that idea? If someone tells me something hurt their feelings I would try to find another way to put it. Now what hurt your feelings?

 

[baileyn45]

The problem with the whole PC thing is the same as everything else in this country it gets so out of hand that it becomes absurd.

Here's a list from the Univ of NH of PC infractions,

bad: senior, senior citizen, elders, older people
you should say: people of advanced age, old people

bad: poor person, poverty stricken
you should say: people experiencing poverty, person living at or below the poverty line

bad: rich people
you should say: person of material wealth

bad: over weight, obese
you should say: people of size

bad: american
you should say: us citizen, resident of the us

bad: caucasian
you should say: european american, white

bad: foreigners
you should say: international people

bad: deaf person
you should say: person who is deaf

bad: blind person
you should say: person who is blind

bad: guys (when referring to people overall)
you should say: folks, people, you all, y'all

bad: girlie or tomboy
you should say: Children who are gender non-conforming, Children who are gender variant

It's amazing that some one is actually getting paid to come up with this stuff.

 

[Ravi]

Free speech is not forbidden. Those who denigrate PC are angry because they no longer have the freedom to offend without consequence.

Political Correctness might well be defined as using simple human respect, decency and tolerance. Those who are off put by PC simply want to conduct themselves without that simple human respect and decency.

Should we eliminate PC? Should we eliminate civil discourse in favor of the coarsening of the culture? They seem to be the same question.

This pretense is part of the machinery of Political Correctness.

Pretense?!? Have we devolved so far as a society that basic human respect is a pretense?

Is the ability to easily offend, marginalize and demean something so noble it has to be defended?

PC is not about basic human respect.

It is about the ability to shout down and marginalize people or ideas you don't like.

Which is why I am so strongly against it.

I believe in the Contest of Ideas.

The 'Contest of Ideas' is a noble pursuit. But lathering up with insulting, denigrating and offensive language and epithets dilutes that contest so it appears more like a pro wrestling match and less like William F. Buckley's Firing Line.

The weaponization and application of Political Correctness goes far, far beyond disliking it when someone says a nasty word. In fact, that would be among the very last issues I have with it.

What it actually involves is a segment of the population that uses "being offended" as a way to put their target on the defensive and thereby control the conversation. To wit:

Person 1: "I disagree with Obama on this issue, and here are three reasons why".

Person 2: "You're a racist".

Person 1: "Huh? I'm not a racist, I just disagree with Obama and explained precisely why".

Person 2: "You just disagree with Obama because he's black. You're a racist. This conversation is over, and I'm gonna get you fired"

Person 1: "I'm not a racist, I just, oh, never mind."

Person 2 has leveraged PC to avoid the conversation by putting his target on the defensive.


What it also involves is enabling the bad behavior of a person or group by deflecting away from that behavior.

Person 1: "Something needs to be done about the incredibly high incidence of fatherless black children. Here are the stats."

Person 2: "You're a racist".

Person 1: "Hey, no, I'm just pointing out the facts".

Person 2: "I'm not gonna waste my time talking to a racist. This conversation is over, and I'm gonna get you fired"

Person 2 has leveraged PC to avoid the conversation by putting his target on the defensive.


And another example:

Person 1: "The murderer was a devout Muslim and told people he'd slaughter non-believers because his religion tells him to."

Person 2: "Christians killed all kinds people in the Crusades. I don't see you talking about them."

Person 1: "Uh, I'm talking about this specific case".

Person 2: "You think that all Muslims are terrorists. You're an anti-Islam bigot. Not all Muslims are terrorists. This conversation is over, and I'm gonna get you fired"

And the trend continues.

Of course, I could go on and on and on and on, with examples, but I know that you could just Google political correctness examples and come up with about another zillion that have nothing to do with just saying a bad word.
.

Three conversations that only happen in your imagination.

 

[Mac1958]

The problem with the whole PC thing is the same as everything else in this country it gets so out of hand that it becomes absurd.

Here's a list from the Univ of NH of PC infractions,

bad: senior, senior citizen, elders, older people
you should say: people of advanced age, old people

bad: poor person, poverty stricken
you should say: people experiencing poverty, person living at or below the poverty line

bad: rich people
you should say: person of material wealth

bad: over weight, obese
you should say: people of size

bad: american
you should say: us citizen, resident of the us

bad: caucasian
you should say: european american, white

bad: foreigners
you should say: international people

bad: deaf person
you should say: person who is deaf

bad: blind person
you should say: person who is blind

bad: guys (when referring to people overall)
you should say: folks, people, you all, y'all

bad: girlie or tomboy
you should say: Children who are gender non-conforming, Children who are gender variant

It's amazing that some one is actually getting paid to come up with this stuff.

Yep, this is yet another absurd side of PC.

These people are consumed with controlling the language.

PC: Strategic hypersensitivity leveraged specifically to put your target on the defensive and thereby control the conversation.
.

 

[Correll]

Free speech is not forbidden. Those who denigrate PC are angry because they no longer have the freedom to offend without consequence.

Political Correctness might well be defined as using simple human respect, decency and tolerance. Those who are off put by PC simply want to conduct themselves without that simple human respect and decency.

Should we eliminate PC? Should we eliminate civil discourse in favor of the coarsening of the culture? They seem to be the same question.

This pretense is part of the machinery of Political Correctness.

Pretense?!? Have we devolved so far as a society that basic human respect is a pretense?

Is the ability to easily offend, marginalize and demean something so noble it has to be defended?

PC is not about basic human respect.

It is about the ability to shout down and marginalize people or ideas you don't like.

Which is why I am so strongly against it.

I believe in the Contest of Ideas.

The 'Contest of Ideas' is a noble pursuit. But lathering up with insulting, denigrating and offensive language and epithets dilutes that contest so it appears more like a pro wrestling match and less like William F. Buckley's Firing Line.

The weaponization and application of Political Correctness goes far, far beyond disliking it when someone says a nasty word. In fact, that would be among the very last issues I have with it.

What it actually involves is a segment of the population that uses "being offended" as a way to put their target on the defensive and thereby control the conversation. To wit:

Person 1: "I disagree with Obama on this issue, and here are three reasons why".

Person 2: "You're a racist".

Person 1: "Huh? I'm not a racist, I just disagree with Obama and explained precisely why".

Person 2: "You just disagree with Obama because he's black. You're a racist. This conversation is over, and I'm gonna get you fired"

Person 1: "I'm not a racist, I just, oh, never mind."

Person 2 has leveraged PC to avoid the conversation by putting his target on the defensive.


What it also involves is enabling the bad behavior of a person or group by deflecting away from that behavior.

Person 1: "Something needs to be done about the incredibly high incidence of fatherless black children. Here are the stats."

Person 2: "You're a racist".

Person 1: "Hey, no, I'm just pointing out the facts".

Person 2: "I'm not gonna waste my time talking to a racist. This conversation is over, and I'm gonna get you fired"

Person 2 has leveraged PC to avoid the conversation by putting his target on the defensive.


And another example:

Person 1: "The murderer was a devout Muslim and told people he'd slaughter non-believers because his religion tells him to."

Person 2: "Christians killed all kinds people in the Crusades. I don't see you talking about them."

Person 1: "Uh, I'm talking about this specific case".

Person 2: "You think that all Muslims are terrorists. You're an anti-Islam bigot. Not all Muslims are terrorists. This conversation is over, and I'm gonna get you fired"

And the trend continues.

Of course, I could go on and on and on and on, with examples, but I know that you could just Google political correctness examples and come up with about another zillion that have nothing to do with just saying a bad word.
.

Thank you Mac, that really was the Thread Winner.

 

[Correll]

someone seems defensive... i wonder why... (not really)




The weaponization and application of Political Correctness goes far, far beyond disliking it when someone says a nasty word. In fact, that would be among the very last issues I have with it.


Person 2: "You're a racist".
Person 1: "Huh? I'm not a racist, I just...".


Person 2: "You're a racist".
Person 1: "I'm not a racist, I just, oh, never mind."


Person 2: "You're a racist".
Person 1: "Hey, no, I'm just pointing out the facts".

Because they are being attacked.

 

[Correll]

Another example of why the PC approach fails Asclepias
If it puts you in the position of trying to judge the other person
instead of solving the issues so you CAN communicate.

If your point is to make the person FAIL the standards, then it fails.
If your point is to make sure BOTH people MEET their mutually agreed standards, that might work,
but that's a two way street, not a onesided checklist to try to snag the other person and blame them.

Very well put. The person leveraging PC puts themselves in position of judge & jury.

That does nothing to further the conversation, and merely puts control in their hands.
.

You are free to leverage some PC yourself. Its not one sided.

Yes, it is.

 

[Correll]

I've seen many times on this board the term "politically correct" being used in derogatory manner. It baffles me to be honest. What is it that would make being politically correct something to frown upon as opposed to a tool to further communication?

Rules:

1. No off topic comments. Please address the question.
2. Be able to prove your position using common sense. No links

Political Correctness tends to water down and lesson the meaning of the words they're meant to replace.
i.e., "Undocumented Worker" in lieu of "Illegal Immigrant"

I've noticed that those that promote such phrasing do not hesitate to label those with a differing view with _____-phobe

Not only water down---completely change the facts. We are asked to look at a banana and call it an apple.

Youre assuming youre correct in believing it is a banana. Your assumption you know whats correct actually tears down your credibility to the other person.

You constantly state that you are correct, in the most closed minded of ways.

You constantly find reasons to dismiss what other people are saying.

 

[Correll]

Not only water down---completely change the facts. We are asked to look at a banana and call it an apple.

Youre assuming youre correct in believing it is a banana. Your assumption you know whats correct actually tears down your credibility to the other person.

and vice versa

Thats true. So what you have to do is find agreement on what a banana is. You cant do that by pretending you are smarter.

or that you are somehow politically "correct".

Being politically correct goes a long way in finding agreement.

NO, it's doesn't.