Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[Porter Rockwell]

a wall is a socialist solution looking for a problem to solve.

looking for a problem to solve

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looking for a problem to solve

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looking for a problem to solve

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looking for a problem to solve

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FUCK YOU, Rockhead. We're sick of your blind obtuseness, your refusal to face reality, while attacking anyone who differs with you with the claim of having a "low IQ." If you want these people so much, MOVE THEM INTO YOUR BACKYARD. I don't want these unskilled, uneducated, disease-ridden losers taking up my hard-won land and tax dollars.

You post pictures of a staged event and call me names. How absolutely bright of you!

If I call you names and point to your abject ignorance, will it get your attention?

You missed the part where I told you that BEFORE this issue became front page news, the patriots and constitutionalists had this issue under control. BTW, do you always talk about yourself in the third person?

I'll tell you some of the things I'm sick of:

1) I'm sick of the government, parents, doctors, mental health officials and Big Pharma making drug users out of children

2) I'm sick of those people growing up without a chance in Hell at any kind of life

3) I'm tired of an America where we have more people in prisons than any nation on the planet

4) I'm tired of there being ten drug addicts in prison to every one drug addict in treatment

5) I'm tired of parents thinking their children are special so they make drug addicts out of them, then mollycoddle them, eventually getting them on welfare for the rest of their lives

6) I'm REALLY sick of a society that creates drug users, guarantees that they will also have a criminal record and get locked out of the job market

7) I'm sick of the twenty something year old standing in line to pay for groceries with his debit card, knowing he sits on his ass and complains about America while I work and pay the money that feeds that parasite

8) I'm sick of people that don't want to work unless they get to charge a surgeon's wages for a skill set it takes under two years to learn and then complain when a foreigner WILL work for a decent wage - though not a surgeon's wages (i.e. jobs that pay $20 to $40 an hour that most any dumb ass with an IQ higher than their shoe size can do if they are physically capable)

9) I'm sick of people wanting to blame foreigners when it is idiots that want to lock the foreigners out and not accept the fact that locking them out will not make generational welfarites go out and get a job - AND, adding insult to injury, you lock Americans out and then bitch about foreigners supposedly "stealing jobs"

10) I'm sick of the games and the build the wall proponents inability to have an honest and civil conversation about the issue.

You're really pissed that someone challenged the IQ of those who support the wall. Yet it was a build the wall proponent who accused those who oppose the wall of being liberals. What a freaking joke! The whole genesis of the build the wall mentality began with the liberals and socialists. NOTHING you can do or say will alter the truth.

Get Americans back to work and off drugs and your immigration problem will resolve itself.

 

[danielpalos]

I don't like to live in a country of cowards cowering behind a wall

You you won't even HAVE a country without strong defensible borders which includes a wall.

we have a refugee problem not a common defense problem.

 

[danielpalos]

I'm proud to say that I go out of my way and hire illegals and pay them extra. Being an immigrant myself, I appareciate their willingness to better their life....if someone walked miles and miles and risk their lives to make their lives better, and work as hard most of them do...I would give them green cards and path to citizenship.
They are more productive than lot of fat fuck racists here on this board who spend qll day hating on everything and leave off the system.

that's right! natives should try to better their lives on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.

 

[Leo123]

I don't like to live in a country of cowards cowering behind a wall

You you won't even HAVE a country without strong defensible borders which includes a wall.

we have a refugee problem not a common defense problem.

People who illegally crash our border are NOT refugees they are ILLEGAL ALIENS!! A refugee is NOT a refugee until identified as so by our border authorities. How can you be so ignorant?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

For one thing it a wall would be an ecological disaster for wildlife and the Rio Grande.

Oh......well that settles it. We have to let anybody enter this country that wants to. We can't have any sad coyotes.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It’s a waste of money .

View attachment 236224
It's a waste of skin.

Only a colossal dolt would argue against protection of one's own border. The Pentagon has misplaced more money MANY TIMES OVER over the years than what the wall would cost to build.

AND THAT IS WITHOUT EVEN CONSIDERING THE BILLIONS AND BILLIONS (AND BILLIONS) WE WOULD SAVE IN NOT-WASTED RESOURCES ONCE IT IS FINISHED.

PROVE ME WRONG. Once the wall is built, if it turns out to be a colossal mistake like you predict that backfires in our faces, we can always TEAR IT BACK DOWN, melt the steel, and use the metal to make free housing for illegal Latinos.

It is HIGHLY disingenuous for anyone to suggest that those opposed to the wall don't care about border security. Not having a case, the build the wall proponents are slinging the scare word liberal around and making a baseless and false accusation.

The people once known as patriots and constitutionalists had the issue under control and were successfully working toward permanent solutions to this issue. History has already proven you wrong.

The thing of it is, the really ignorant people are those who are for the wall, but against using their common sense. Rather than call people names; rather than question the motives of others, you should sit down and ask yourself what happens if you get the wall - and be OBJECTIVE. How will the law affect YOUR Liberty?

Having ninja clad, machine gun toting federal mercenaries patrolling a wall that cannot stop free enterprise nor cure people of their drug habit only brings cries for a bigger and bigger - and more intrusive government. With that more and more of your Liberties go south until you cannot reclaim them. I'd rather fight that inevitability because, once the wall is built, and proves ineffective we will not be able to stop it any more than we stopped the once TEMPORARY tax known as the income tax. And what has the 16th Amendment brought you besides a private corporation of murderers that makes the average American quake in their shoes? Most people would rather face an armed robber than the IRS. Yet you don't learn from history.

If the Democrats thought the wall wouldn't work, they wouldn't be fighting it so hard. In fact, it would be a dream come true.

They would be able to use the failure as a campaign issue against Republicans for the next two generations. They would be able to remove the wall by popular demand. So why are they fighting so hard against it? Because it's something they can't remove if they ever regain total power in the federal government.

A wall would not only retard drugs and invaders, it would send a message to the rest of the south that America is no longer a place you can run to if you get sick of where you're living now. You can't play the system anymore by filing a phony asylum claim and then being allowed to roam our country for two or three years before your court date, and not attend your court date when it finally arrives.

Instead, find some Democrat sanctuary city to hide in. Not only will you live your life like an American citizen, you can commit crimes and the cops won't inform ICE. They will give you drivers licenses, allow your illegal kids to attend their schools paid for by taxpayers, and look the other way if you find a place to work. They will even give you welfare and medical care for your kids; something our government doesn't give to some of their very own law abiding people.

 

[Dragonlady]

I don't like to live in a country of cowards cowering behind a wall

You you won't even HAVE a country without strong defensible borders which includes a wall.

we have a refugee problem not a common defense problem.

People who illegally crash our border are NOT refugees they are ILLEGAL ALIENS!! A refugee is NOT a refugee until identified as so by our border authorities. How can you be so ignorant?

You have it backwards, they are refugees unless and until a court of competent jurisdiction declares otherwise. People seeking asylum are ALLOWED to legally crash the borders in an effort to ask for asylum. What is wrong about what is happening at the border is the Trump Administration's bald faced attempt to prevent refugees from crossing into the USA to make that asylum claim. And then incarcerating those who claim asylum until their cases are heard.

What Trump is doing, is limiting how many people the system will process in a day, allowing a huge waiting list to accumulate in order to discourage those seeking to get in. This is both illegal and inhumane, and therein lies the problem. People don't have the resources to wait for months to claim asylum and the Trump Administration is gambling they will quit and leave, or even better, that conditions in the camps will get so bad that violence breaks out. Violence would be the fulfillment of all of your fears.

Trump and his acolytes has consistently attempted to de-humanize immigrants and asylum seekers. Just reading your post you've bought into this nazi bullshit wholeheartedly. If they're not really human, it doesn't matter what we do to them does it. Tear gas their children, let them go into convulsions without medical treatment and die, separate the parents from their children with no care or consideration for returning them to their families. Teaching an entire generation of Central Americans to hate the USA for turning their backs on them.

Immigrants are not "aliens", they are human beings, just like you and I. When you refer to refugees and asylum seekers as an "invasion", an "infestation", "alien", or "animals", it is YOU who are revealed to be subhuman, and unworthy of any consideration whatsoever.

As a purportedly Christian nation, I would remind you of the words of Jesus "That which you have done to the least among you, you have done to me!". If the barefoot and poor Jesus Christ had walked out of the desert and asked for asylum, you would turn Him away too.

 

[Butch_Coolidge]

It’s a waste of money . If the goal is to address illegal immigration, then that money is better spent in other ways .

More ins agents , more immigrantion courts , more judges . More enforcement vs companies who hire illegals . That’s a better use if the money .

How about we keep them from entering first, then we don’t have to risk agents lives. We also don’t need them destroying whatever is in their path, and needing to be supported. Not to mention the resources they use that should go to legal tax payers. Then there is the crime they commit. We also don’t need to tie up the court system with bullshit. They should also track down the visa violators, and send them back. Steel construction, and razor wire should do the trick. Like what they use to keep criminals in jail. We already have enough people who don’t contribute anything to society. Why do we need more. You seem to have quick fixes for everything dimmy. What have you done personally to address these issues, or assist they poor people?


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[Ray From Cleveland]

A- Cost prohibitive
B- Won't work
C- It's racist
D- It would reduce those successfully crossing the border
E- None of the Above

The machine benefits by not having a wall. Business (Republicans) get their cheap labor and (Democrats) get the votes

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours

There is no excuse for the Republicans not funding the wall.

-Geaux

I don't like to live in a country of cowards cowering behind a wall

Oh, that reverse psychology guilt trip thing again? You all tried that multiple times with gun discussions. When are you on the left going to realize that doesn't work? It's painfully transparent.

I've noticed that the pro-wall people are ALWAYS blaming the left for being against the nutty wall idea. The facts are that I am a Republican as are the majority of the people in the U.S. Senate. When push comes to shove, most Republicans are against the nutty wall idea.

Ray, you cannot come to grips with the fact that a wall is a socialist solution looking for a problem to solve. When people show you instances when a wall does not work, you are complaining about how far back into history the other poster went to prove the point. Even going back to BIBLICAL times, walls have not been long term solutions for much of anything.

Those, such as yourself, like wailing about the damn wall, but cannot tell us a single problem you're really addressing. If those with a few IQ points show you what's wrong with the pretext you rely on, you want to move the goal posts.

I really wish you would quit blaming opposition to the wall on the Republicans. The only reason most of them are supporting idea is in the best interests of party unity so that other legislation does not get bogged down AND the fix is in. Once the wall is fully funded and Donnie gets his win, you can kiss that gun in your avatar good-bye.

For everything you gain there is something lost. Trump isn't God. He is playing the Art of the Deal. You're simply too ignorant to ask what the real cost - not in terms of dollars and cents, but in terms of legislation (legislation that will affect YOUR Liberties) does this nutty and INEFFECTIVE wall idea cost.

That's nutty? I say that anybody who equates a border wall with losing all freedoms is nutty.

Correct, there are many Republicans who don't want the wall. But they took note at what just happened the last presidential election. Like any other election, they all said basically the same thing: the jobs, the economy, our international interaction and so on. But only one person stood for what the American people want; one person who said "I'm going to build a wall." With zero experience in politics, not even so much as a job on a school board somewhere, people elected Donald Trump. He not only beat out the over dozen Republican contenders, he beat out a very well known career politician, the wife of a former President who was beloved by nearly everybody in the Democrat party.

There is nothing Socialist about a wall. If you have no secure border, you really don't have a country.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You're right about one thing, I have no idea where you're at half the time.

ADD is difficulty paying attention or your mind drifting off of a subject. It's something you can live with without taking medication. We were talking about criminal records, not mental records. You keep detouring the subject all the time.

What you don't understand is the Doctor/ patient relationship is sacred. Criminal records are not. Doctors take an oath to protect the confidence between themselves and their clients unless they believe a serious threat to the public is at large.

The government puts guardrails on our roads so you don't accidentally drive off a cliff or into a river. The government forces companies to put warnings on medications and various devices so you don't get hurt. The government forces companies to put something in front of dock doors so an employee doesn't fall out of it or a tow motor drive off of it. The government regulation is that we truck drivers chock our wheels (putting a rubber or metal wedge under the tire) even though tractor-trailers have two independent brake systems that make it virtually impossible for the system to fail.

In other words, government takes measures to insure our safety. So if government is aware of a potentially dangerous person; a person who may cause me serious grief; a person who may be a threat to my business or family, it's governments duty to warn me of this potential--not hide it from me so I have no idea.

You open your post with a straw man argument, add utter nonsense and then end it with the weakest argument you've ever had.

Mental health records are not sacred. There are legislators wanting them to be used right now to make sure you cannot exercise your Rights. WHEN it happens, get back to me.

Finally, building a guard-rail poses no threat to your constitutional Liberties.

And neither does criminal records being public.

The point is, Ray, you have admitted that ADD / ADHD are not real conditions - you know conditions where people need to be on drugs. You have admitted that, sir.

What you cannot see is that whether you do or do not, the public should NOT have access to your records because they cannot properly evaluate them.

In order to end this argument, I'll offer you an idea. If you want to hire someone, rent to them, etc. then since you trust the government so much why not submit the application along with the reason and let them just say they recommend that you hire them, rent to them, or you don't.

Because government doesn't make my decisions for me. I make my own decisions, and I make those decisions based on the information I have. One landlord might want to rent to an ex-con. I don't. I've had experience doing that and I base my future decisions on past experiences.

It's obvious that the government don't make your decisions for you. Rush Limbaugh does that. But, you clearly WISH that the government would be your personal Santa Claus.

Asking that government not hide information from me that could cause me harm either physically or financially is not Santa Clause. It's asking government to do it's job by protecting us from enemies foreign and domestic.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I don't like to live in a country of cowards cowering behind a wall

You you won't even HAVE a country without strong defensible borders which includes a wall.

we have a refugee problem not a common defense problem.

People who illegally crash our border are NOT refugees they are ILLEGAL ALIENS!! A refugee is NOT a refugee until identified as so by our border authorities. How can you be so ignorant?

You have it backwards, they are refugees unless and until a court of competent jurisdiction declares otherwise. People seeking asylum are ALLOWED to legally crash the borders in an effort to ask for asylum. What is wrong about what is happening at the border is the Trump Administration's bald faced attempt to prevent refugees from crossing into the USA to make that asylum claim. And then incarcerating those who claim asylum until their cases are heard.

What Trump is doing, is limiting how many people the system will process in a day, allowing a huge waiting list to accumulate in order to discourage those seeking to get in. This is both illegal and inhumane, and therein lies the problem. People don't have the resources to wait for months to claim asylum and the Trump Administration is gambling they will quit and leave, or even better, that conditions in the camps will get so bad that violence breaks out. Violence would be the fulfillment of all of your fears.

Trump and his acolytes has consistently attempted to de-humanize immigrants and asylum seekers. Just reading your post you've bought into this nazi bullshit wholeheartedly. If they're not really human, it doesn't matter what we do to them does it. Tear gas their children, let them go into convulsions without medical treatment and die, separate the parents from their children with no care or consideration for returning them to their families. Teaching an entire generation of Central Americans to hate the USA for turning their backs on them.

Immigrants are not "aliens", they are human beings, just like you and I. When you refer to refugees and asylum seekers as an "invasion", an "infestation", "alien", or "animals", it is YOU who are revealed to be subhuman, and unworthy of any consideration whatsoever.

As a purportedly Christian nation, I would remind you of the words of Jesus "That which you have done to the least among you, you have done to me!". If the barefoot and poor Jesus Christ had walked out of the desert and asked for asylum, you would turn Him away too.

Then we should just drop off the Illegal killer rapist Mexicans in Canada, you take care of them

.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Because front doors and gated communities are likewise immoral. Anyone who has a front door hates everyone outside their house, especially if they ever lock it. If they were truly humane, they would have an "open door" policy. People in gated communities are even more immoral, obviously.

Israel's West Bank border wall has worked remarkably well. That's the problem. Liberals know the wall would drastically curtail the flow of illegal immigrants.

Because building walls is the province of private property owners, not government.

That is a point well taken. If the wall must be built on private property, it then calls into question how far we will go in allowing the government to abuse eminent domain abuse. BTW, BEFORE 9 / 11 the same people worrying about a wall were worried about government over-reach with eminent domain abuse. Times change.

Wow, you really are off your rocker. Public records equate to a New World Order? And let me see this evidence that 30% of inmates never did anything wrong to be imprisoned; not that I believe you have any credible link (but it will be fun if you try to post something) however I just want to see where you make this stuff up from.

Yes, criminal records are government records, and nothing in the Constitution "prohibits" government from sharing those records with the people. It would be an injustice to not warn people of potentially dangerous people. But I'm sure in the name of privacy, you wouldn't mind a rapist to move in next door to your mother or sister without your knowledge.

If you would not believe it, then there is no point in posting a link. It would be wasted verification.

One thing is for sure. You live on this board to argue the wall as if it were your lifeblood - your religion. Yet you fail to comprehend simple truths. For example:

Not too long back the liberals wanted to declare that any veteran who had been diagnosed with PTSD be denied the Right to keep and bear Arms. You won't believe that either, but it's true. The point is, the liberals would use your mental health records to deny you the Right to keep and bear Arms.

You argued against ADD / ADHD, claiming you are afflicted with such, but then denying that you are not on the drugs for it. Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but, if you have a real condition, you either have it or you don't. If you're born with juvenile diabetes, you have it. You don't wake up one morning and say I feel fine so I must be cured.

You cannot understand that I'm sometimes on YOUR side for IF ADD / ADHD were real conditions and IF you were not on your meds, the liberals would most assuredly pass legislation to address people like you. IF you think a person's criminal record is something the public should know about, then ditto for their mental health records.

WHEN mental health records become fair game, then you can be denied the Right to keep and bear Arms as well as be turned down for a job because you have a "mental health record." Does it matter that you went to see the psychologist because you lost interest in sex or that you needed a referral from a psychologist to go out of network and be hypnotized so that you could quit smoking? HELL NO. It will be just like a "criminal record." Nobody is going to read the transcripts nor weigh the value of the treatment nor more than they read court transcripts to find out that you were threatened with pleading guilty or facing a maximum prison sentence when the facts clearly dictate you were innocent. I leave you with the wisdom of Thomas Paine:

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."

Read more at: Thomas Paine Quotes

You're right about one thing, I have no idea where you're at half the time.

ADD is difficulty paying attention or your mind drifting off of a subject. It's something you can live with without taking medication. We were talking about criminal records, not mental records. You keep detouring the subject all the time.

What you don't understand is the Doctor/ patient relationship is sacred. Criminal records are not. Doctors take an oath to protect the confidence between themselves and their clients unless they believe a serious threat to the public is at large.

The government puts guardrails on our roads so you don't accidentally drive off a cliff or into a river. The government forces companies to put warnings on medications and various devices so you don't get hurt. The government forces companies to put something in front of dock doors so an employee doesn't fall out of it or a tow motor drive off of it. The government regulation is that we truck drivers chock our wheels (putting a rubber or metal wedge under the tire) even though tractor-trailers have two independent brake systems that make it virtually impossible for the system to fail.

In other words, government takes measures to insure our safety. So if government is aware of a potentially dangerous person; a person who may cause me serious grief; a person who may be a threat to my business or family, it's governments duty to warn me of this potential--not hide it from me so I have no idea.

No, it is not the government's duty to warn you of a "potentially" dangerous person. It maybe governments duty to warn you of "known" dangerous person.

No, a person who is a criminal is potentially dangerous. The government is we the people. When the government sends somebody to jail, we the people sent them to jail. We have a right to know who our government sent to prison for our own protection.

So if a guy loses his job and doesn't pay child support is dangerous? A guy who has a beef with the tax authorities is dangerous? Only in Ray's world.

That's up to me and employers to decide, not you and not the government. I need to know who and what I'm dealing with to make a safe and sound decision.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We didn't have a conservative corporatist court at the time. We don't even have one now. That's why the Supreme Court just ruled that Trump can't deny asylum to people caught sneaking into the country.

Building a wall is applying a solution that the Chinese used in the 4th Century AD, and it didn't work then. The Great Wall proved no deterrent at all to attacking armies, despite 15 centuries of construction, fortification and expansion and was abandoned altogether by the last army which overall it.

The Eminent Domain cases from the last attempt to fence the entire southern border have still not cleared the dockets in Texas, and local residents are gearing up for another fight.

Cartels are now using drones to smuggle drugs across the border, so a wall is absolutely not deterrent to drugs.

And last but not least, Trump promised Mexico would pay for it, and now he's giving us some bullshit line that the new NAFTA 2.0 is paying for it. The American people will be paying for it. That's on top of the $4000 raises he promised everyone from the corporate tax cut that never materialized.

$4,000 raises? That's a new one on me. I never heard of that before and I watched the elections pretty closely.

So now your stance is to compare a 4th century wall to today? Then why is it where walls and fences are erected, they made noticeable improvement if not total improvement?

And you're claiming all drugs are coming in on drones? Very well, even though I don't believe a word of that (I know they use drones from time to time) what happens when we find a solution to that problem? Start the wall talk again? Wouldn't it be better to have the wall in place already when that happens?

Did you ever take notice that we pro-wall people don't give a rats ass who is paying for the wall, yet you on the left keep bringing that up like it's a relevant point to stop it?

Drugs go through checkpoints, also most illegals came by plane by the way. That's why we keep telling you a wall is useless.

Hmmm. Makes you wonder how those border agencies make thousands of busts every year by the border.

It makes wonder also how some of those border agents make more than their salaries, and dozens got arrested.

Really? When?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I don't like to live in a country of cowards cowering behind a wall

You you won't even HAVE a country without strong defensible borders which includes a wall.

we have a refugee problem not a common defense problem.

People who illegally crash our border are NOT refugees they are ILLEGAL ALIENS!! A refugee is NOT a refugee until identified as so by our border authorities. How can you be so ignorant?

You have it backwards, they are refugees unless and until a court of competent jurisdiction declares otherwise. People seeking asylum are ALLOWED to legally crash the borders in an effort to ask for asylum. What is wrong about what is happening at the border is the Trump Administration's bald faced attempt to prevent refugees from crossing into the USA to make that asylum claim. And then incarcerating those who claim asylum until their cases are heard.

What Trump is doing, is limiting how many people the system will process in a day, allowing a huge waiting list to accumulate in order to discourage those seeking to get in. This is both illegal and inhumane, and therein lies the problem. People don't have the resources to wait for months to claim asylum and the Trump Administration is gambling they will quit and leave, or even better, that conditions in the camps will get so bad that violence breaks out. Violence would be the fulfillment of all of your fears.

Trump and his acolytes has consistently attempted to de-humanize immigrants and asylum seekers. Just reading your post you've bought into this nazi bullshit wholeheartedly. If they're not really human, it doesn't matter what we do to them does it. Tear gas their children, let them go into convulsions without medical treatment and die, separate the parents from their children with no care or consideration for returning them to their families. Teaching an entire generation of Central Americans to hate the USA for turning their backs on them.

Immigrants are not "aliens", they are human beings, just like you and I. When you refer to refugees and asylum seekers as an "invasion", an "infestation", "alien", or "animals", it is YOU who are revealed to be subhuman, and unworthy of any consideration whatsoever.

As a purportedly Christian nation, I would remind you of the words of Jesus "That which you have done to the least among you, you have done to me!". If the barefoot and poor Jesus Christ had walked out of the desert and asked for asylum, you would turn Him away too.

Then we should just drop off the Illegal killer rapist Mexicans in Canada, you take care of them

.

Which is why I said besides the wall, we should build a super highway from Mexico to Canada. It will be elevated and enclosed so nobody could jump off of it. Bet she sings a different tune then.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It’s a waste of money . If the goal is to address illegal immigration, then that money is better spent in other ways .

More ins agents , more immigrantion courts , more judges . More enforcement vs companies who hire illegals . That’s a better use if the money .

How about we keep them from entering first, then we don’t have to risk agents lives. We also don’t need them destroying whatever is in their path, and needing to be supported. Not to mention the resources they use that should go to legal tax payers. Then there is the crime they commit. We also don’t need to tie up the court system with bullshit. They should also track down the visa violators, and send them back. Steel construction, and razor wire should do the trick. Like what they use to keep criminals in jail. We already have enough people who don’t contribute anything to society. Why do we need more. You seem to have quick fixes for everything dimmy. What have you done personally to address these issues, or assist they poor people?


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The solution to this problem is simple: anybody caught here illegally will be charged with a first degree felony. It carries a minimum of five years in prison. Then we wouldn't need a wall or even border security. If you want to see what 20 million people rushing to get out of a country would look like, pass a law like that and that's exactly what you'd see.

 

[bripat9643]

A- Cost prohibitive
B- Won't work
C- It's racist
D- It would reduce those successfully crossing the border
E- None of the Above

The machine benefits by not having a wall. Business (Republicans) get their cheap labor and (Democrats) get the votes

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours

There is no excuse for the Republicans not funding the wall.

-Geaux

You don't even list the REAL reasons why the wall is a total waste of time and money. It doesn't work. This is the first, last and most important reason. And it gives a false sense of security. The Southern Border isn't the source of most illegal immigration. The money would be better spent on infrastructure to better track and verify Social Security numbers for employers.

We all know it does work. Even you know it, but you lie about it.

 

[Butch_Coolidge]

It’s a waste of money . If the goal is to address illegal immigration, then that money is better spent in other ways .

More ins agents , more immigrantion courts , more judges . More enforcement vs companies who hire illegals . That’s a better use if the money .

How about we keep them from entering first, then we don’t have to risk agents lives. We also don’t need them destroying whatever is in their path, and needing to be supported. Not to mention the resources they use that should go to legal tax payers. Then there is the crime they commit. We also don’t need to tie up the court system with bullshit. They should also track down the visa violators, and send them back. Steel construction, and razor wire should do the trick. Like what they use to keep criminals in jail. We already have enough people who don’t contribute anything to society. Why do we need more. You seem to have quick fixes for everything dimmy. What have you done personally to address these issues, or assist they poor people?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The solution to this problem is simple: anybody caught here illegally will be charged with a first degree felony. It carries a minimum of five years in prison. Then we wouldn't need a wall or even border security. If you want to see what 20 million people rushing to get out of a country would look like, pass a law like that and that's exactly what you'd see.

I like the way you think.


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[bripat9643]

So what's wrong with a wall AND technology?

Why do you think the Democrats are so scared to death of a wall they are even willing to shutdown the government?

Yes, we could add technology to the cost of the wall and we it could be upgraded as new technology becomes available but adding 5 feet to the top or the foundation of a 1000 mile wall is another story.

My point is that we are not living in stagnation. More Mexicans are returning to Mexico than arriving. This trend started over 10 years ago and seems to be accelerating. The problems in the northern triangle are responsible for the large number of Central Americans arriving in the US. There have been proposals from both sides to increase aid and provide US personal to assist in clearing out the drug cartels and gangs that have made life a living hell for the people. Lastly, immigration reform is far from dead. It can't happen with Republican control of government but certain can and will happen with Democrat control. Even if democrats only control one House of congress, we can still get immigration reform because many republicans agree with democrats on a number of immigration issues. These changes will dramatically reduce illegal immigration without spending tens of billions of dollars on a wall, taking property away from hundreds of land owners, destruction of a fragile environment, and a sending a message to the world that the United States seeks to isolate itself by hiding behind a wall.

It is not the wall democrats fear. It is what it represents, isolationism and the victory of hate and racism over reason.

So they have you brainwashed too.......a damn shame.

Racism is what Democrats have used for many years to get their way. It has nothing to do with racism. This isn't a race issue. If it were Canadians or Europeans attacking our country, we would feel the same way. We don't need more uneducated diseased unskilled people in our country no matter who they are.

And what immigration reform do we need? There is nothing wrong with our immigration system now. Do you know what immigration reform means? It means surrendering to those who can't easily get in now.

Uneducated, diseased, unskilled people, is this how you see immigrants to the US? If so, I feel sorry for you because you are delusional.

Just because these people are poor does not mean they are uneducated, diseased, and unskilled. Many of these people are skilled and can be an asset to the country. Plus many of them have more intestinal fortitude than a dozen native born American. With the right kind of immigration reform we can bring these people into the country and keep out those that mean us harm.

Our immigration system is incredibly fucked up. We select immigrants based on country of origin and having some relative living in the US. Immigration agents spend 10 mins selecting who is allowed to immigrate and months on deportation. We deny people the right to work in the US even if they have skills we need. Our laws would deport people who have lived in this country for decades and have been an asset to their community. Those same laws would also deport people who were brought to the US as children and raised as Americans. We force people to break our laws in order apply for asylum. We were instrumental in creating the international refugee system and protocols and we violate the very rules we created. The biggest problem in illegal immigration is not people coming into the country illegally but overstaying visa and our immigration laws don't even consider this a crime in most cases and there is no provision for tracking these people. Our E-Verify system is completely voluntary and it's data is as much as 6 months out of date. Employers that use contract labor are shielded from immigration law that forbids employing of undocumented immigrants.
And you say there's nothing wrong with our immigration system

Immigration reform for the anti-white party means getting more foreigners into this country. They don't care who they are: unskilled, scientists, diseased, uneducated, they don't care, just as long as they are wiping out the white vote in this country.

People who are here illegally being model citizens, paying taxes, being here since children is no reason to let them stay. They are still here breaking our laws. They are still here illegally. I don't know what you on the left don't understand about that. You think being here illegally is okay in most cases.

We don't need to set the precedent that if you come here illegally and be a good boy for X amount of years, you won't be bothered the least. That's a blanket invitation to the other 7.2 billion people in the world that America is weak on immigration which we really are. But we don't need to amplify that.

I could go through the points in democrat plans for immigration reform but why waste the time. Discussing immigration with you is lot like discussing the need for green vegetables with a 5 year old. You don't want any part of it. You have made that abundantly clear.

You seem to believe that America can prosper by hiding behind walls and creating laws that keeps the rest of the world out but you're dead wrong.

We saw what they planned in 2013: amnesty first, and then measures to control the border second. The latter depended on Dims approving the funding for them, and we've all seen how that works.

 

[bripat9643]

Because front doors and gated communities are likewise immoral. Anyone who has a front door hates everyone outside their house, especially if they ever lock it. If they were truly humane, they would have an "open door" policy. People in gated communities are even more immoral, obviously.

Israel's West Bank border wall has worked remarkably well. That's the problem. Liberals know the wall would drastically curtail the flow of illegal immigrants.

Because building walls is the province of private property owners, not government.

That is a point well taken. If the wall must be built on private property, it then calls into question how far we will go in allowing the government to abuse eminent domain abuse. BTW, BEFORE 9 / 11 the same people worrying about a wall were worried about government over-reach with eminent domain abuse. Times change.

There is no constitutional protection of criminal records. Search and Seizure is in regards to a persons personal records--not government records. Furthermore there is a huge difference between supporting medications for certain conditions and using them.

Criminal records ARE government records. Nothing in the Constitution gives the government the authority to give out the information for the general public to go on a fishing expedition. You shouldn't argue this as one day, you or a loved one WILL be denied a constitutional protection and it will because of people just like you.

One last time: the government can lie to you and they can lie about you... AND THEY DO. By their own estimates 30 percent of the people in jails and prisons never actually committed a crime.

You were given an alternative, so if you choose to be a subject of the NEW WORLD ORDER, that is your prerogative. It's mine not to subject myself to a foreign jurisdiction just because a de facto government makes a false claim against me.

Wow, you really are off your rocker. Public records equate to a New World Order? And let me see this evidence that 30% of inmates never did anything wrong to be imprisoned; not that I believe you have any credible link (but it will be fun if you try to post something) however I just want to see where you make this stuff up from.

Yes, criminal records are government records, and nothing in the Constitution "prohibits" government from sharing those records with the people. It would be an injustice to not warn people of potentially dangerous people. But I'm sure in the name of privacy, you wouldn't mind a rapist to move in next door to your mother or sister without your knowledge.

If you would not believe it, then there is no point in posting a link. It would be wasted verification.

One thing is for sure. You live on this board to argue the wall as if it were your lifeblood - your religion. Yet you fail to comprehend simple truths. For example:

Not too long back the liberals wanted to declare that any veteran who had been diagnosed with PTSD be denied the Right to keep and bear Arms. You won't believe that either, but it's true. The point is, the liberals would use your mental health records to deny you the Right to keep and bear Arms.

You argued against ADD / ADHD, claiming you are afflicted with such, but then denying that you are not on the drugs for it. Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but, if you have a real condition, you either have it or you don't. If you're born with juvenile diabetes, you have it. You don't wake up one morning and say I feel fine so I must be cured.

You cannot understand that I'm sometimes on YOUR side for IF ADD / ADHD were real conditions and IF you were not on your meds, the liberals would most assuredly pass legislation to address people like you. IF you think a person's criminal record is something the public should know about, then ditto for their mental health records.

WHEN mental health records become fair game, then you can be denied the Right to keep and bear Arms as well as be turned down for a job because you have a "mental health record." Does it matter that you went to see the psychologist because you lost interest in sex or that you needed a referral from a psychologist to go out of network and be hypnotized so that you could quit smoking? HELL NO. It will be just like a "criminal record." Nobody is going to read the transcripts nor weigh the value of the treatment nor more than they read court transcripts to find out that you were threatened with pleading guilty or facing a maximum prison sentence when the facts clearly dictate you were innocent. I leave you with the wisdom of Thomas Paine:

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."

Read more at: Thomas Paine Quotes

You're right about one thing, I have no idea where you're at half the time.

ADD is difficulty paying attention or your mind drifting off of a subject. It's something you can live with without taking medication. We were talking about criminal records, not mental records. You keep detouring the subject all the time.

What you don't understand is the Doctor/ patient relationship is sacred. Criminal records are not. Doctors take an oath to protect the confidence between themselves and their clients unless they believe a serious threat to the public is at large.

The government puts guardrails on our roads so you don't accidentally drive off a cliff or into a river. The government forces companies to put warnings on medications and various devices so you don't get hurt. The government forces companies to put something in front of dock doors so an employee doesn't fall out of it or a tow motor drive off of it. The government regulation is that we truck drivers chock our wheels (putting a rubber or metal wedge under the tire) even though tractor-trailers have two independent brake systems that make it virtually impossible for the system to fail.

In other words, government takes measures to insure our safety. So if government is aware of a potentially dangerous person; a person who may cause me serious grief; a person who may be a threat to my business or family, it's governments duty to warn me of this potential--not hide it from me so I have no idea.

No, it is not the government's duty to warn you of a "potentially" dangerous person. It maybe governments duty to warn you of "known" dangerous person.

it's the government's duty to keep dangerous persons out of this country.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I don't like to live in a country of cowards cowering behind a wall

You you won't even HAVE a country without strong defensible borders which includes a wall.

we have a refugee problem not a common defense problem.

People who illegally crash our border are NOT refugees they are ILLEGAL ALIENS!! A refugee is NOT a refugee until identified as so by our border authorities. How can you be so ignorant?

You have it backwards, they are refugees unless and until a court of competent jurisdiction declares otherwise. People seeking asylum are ALLOWED to legally crash the borders in an effort to ask for asylum. What is wrong about what is happening at the border is the Trump Administration's bald faced attempt to prevent refugees from crossing into the USA to make that asylum claim. And then incarcerating those who claim asylum until their cases are heard.

What Trump is doing, is limiting how many people the system will process in a day, allowing a huge waiting list to accumulate in order to discourage those seeking to get in. This is both illegal and inhumane, and therein lies the problem. People don't have the resources to wait for months to claim asylum and the Trump Administration is gambling they will quit and leave, or even better, that conditions in the camps will get so bad that violence breaks out. Violence would be the fulfillment of all of your fears.

Trump and his acolytes has consistently attempted to de-humanize immigrants and asylum seekers. Just reading your post you've bought into this nazi bullshit wholeheartedly. If they're not really human, it doesn't matter what we do to them does it. Tear gas their children, let them go into convulsions without medical treatment and die, separate the parents from their children with no care or consideration for returning them to their families. Teaching an entire generation of Central Americans to hate the USA for turning their backs on them.

Immigrants are not "aliens", they are human beings, just like you and I. When you refer to refugees and asylum seekers as an "invasion", an "infestation", "alien", or "animals", it is YOU who are revealed to be subhuman, and unworthy of any consideration whatsoever.

As a purportedly Christian nation, I would remind you of the words of Jesus "That which you have done to the least among you, you have done to me!". If the barefoot and poor Jesus Christ had walked out of the desert and asked for asylum, you would turn Him away too.

I don't think Jesus would be lying about his asylum claim as most of the asylum seekers do. I don't think Jesus would throw rocks at our border agents or break down a temporary wall to enter illegally.

Yes, the worse you treat these people, the less will come. There were supposed to be tens of thousands more joining this current caravan. Where are they? Where did they go?

It's working. Finally, a President who is doing things that actually work. If you don't want to sit around for years picking your nose, if you don't want to be separated from your supposed children, if you don't want to be detained, then STF in your own country. Don't come here. Problem solved.