Why is it Necessary to Mislead

[ogibillm]

And yet they produce absolutely nothing.

What your saying is they take money from us and spend it to grow the economy.

Well couldn't we just spend OUR money OURSELVES and get the same desired result?

Tell me whan has the private sector ever stopped spending?

I'm the private sector and I spend money everyday of my life and will continue until the day I die.

If you're talking about corporations sitting on their money, well blame the liberal government for that.

Four years and NO BUDGET??

And they think they can manage my money better?

PUHLEASE!!

you have a bumper-sticker understanding of economics.

 

[AmyNation]

Explain how cutting the cost of government cause the economy to struggle?

Last I heard the government doesn't produce anything.

Government jobs, government projects, government money picking up private sector slack.

Spending makes the economy go round, when the private sector stops spending the worst thing the government can do is follow suit.

And yet they produce absolutely nothing.

What your saying is they take money from us and spend it to grow the economy.

Well couldn't we just spend OUR money OURSELVES and get the same desired result?

Tell me whan has the private sector ever stopped spending?

I'm the private sector and I spend money everyday of my life and will continue until the day I die.

If you're talking about corporations sitting on their money, well blame the liberal government for that.

Four years and NO BUDGET??

And they think they can manage my money better?

PUHLEASE!!

Tax cuts can work to jump start the economy, can, but not always. The poor who receive tax refunds do a great job of feeding that money right back into the markets. Everyone else has a tendency to horde, not spend. If you look at the jobs numbers you can see that the private sector is adding but the public one is shrinking, which is a serious drag on the economy.

 

[ilia25]

The graph is misleading in two parts, one because it does not eliminate the differences in what you get for your tax dollars

What differences are you talking about?

and two, an higher tax per GDP can indicate a stagnant or inifficent economy, and does not indicate the efficiency of the taxation.

Tax rate per GDP cannot possibly be an indication of a stagnant economy. Simply because the tax revenues depend on GDP -- in fact, they drop faster than GDP when an economy goes into recession.

In any case there are lot of OECD economies that can be described as anything BUT stagnant, while collecting much more taxes than the US.

Maybe stagnation is not the term to use, but it sure as hell can be a sign of inefficiency. By the chart how can you tell what services you get for your tax ratio, or do you get multiple levels of buracracy that reduce the services provided for the collected tax dollars.

You are right, you cannot tell that from the chart. That is why I wonder what makes you think that high tax ratios can be an indication of wasteful spending?

If you think that any government takes in as much taxes as could so it could waste as much money as it could, you are wrong. Any democratic government is highly transparent and accountable to the voters (US is actually lagging behind in this respect). Its budget is open to anyone, and its spending programs are always a subject to public debate. There is very little room for inefficiency.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The average tax burden for US citizens is misleading since nearly 50% of people with income pay no income tax and some of them actually pay a net negative tax meaning they get back all the income tax deducted from their pay plus more.

Using top marginal rates is not a good measure either.

The only true measure is the net effective taxation rate which is function of the taxes you actually pay, not your marginal tax bracket, and your gross income.

Tax Freedom Day ® | Tax Foundation

 

[g5000]

Why do partisans mislead?

Emotions, not reason, are an important part of the daily diet of the inner child in all of you.

We here at Misinformation Central know what gets you hot. The image of a President spraypainting gun-grabbing Executive Orders over the Constitution is sexy. Millions of dead Mexican felons choking the lines at the voting booth keeps one's heart rate up. A Muslim Kenyan in the White House makes the crotch moist. We work day and night so that you hold these "truths" to be self-evident.

Daily twitter updates of the fluctuations in the weight of Michelle Obama's ass are an important element to being politically erudite. You have to be in the post-it-forward loop on these things or we will tell everyone you are a card-carrying libtard. Don't think! Just copy and paste! We will tell you what to think.

Speaking of libtards, we have made you so incredibly dumbed down by now, Rachel Maddow was able to convince you the Chinese government was funding right wing issue ads. BWA-HA-HA-HA! At this point we can get you to eat pure horseshit, still steaming from the horse's ass, and have you believe you are consuming caviar! Insider gold which only YOU (and ten million of our closest minions) are privy to.

The federal government can create a MASSIVE new entitlement program and not add a single dime to the federal deficit. Yeah. You totally bought that one. Even we were shocked at the level of gullibility you demonstrated on that one. We are still down here shaking our heads. Is there no limit to the absurdity to which we can go?

Let's find out!


Charts! We LOOOOOOVE charts! Nothing is simpler for the rubes of the Right or Left to grok than a picture. You guys can't get enough of them. We have a hard time keeping up with the demand. Clever captions over gotcha photos with your favorite target in mid-blind or facial change. We have whole divisions devoted to feeding you pictures.


Our aim is to eventually have internet forum posts contain nothing more than single words. Invoke the word "OBAMA!!!", like an incantation from a spell book, and millions of readers will react with ire or fear or joy.

Sheer Pavlovian responses to names or key words. That's our goal. To turn you all into little drooling reflexive puppies.

We are SO close...

 

[ilia25]

Tell me whan has the private sector ever stopped spending?

Where have you been the past 5 years? The single reason the US economy is weak is because the private sector had cut on spending after the big scare in 2008. And it keeps saving as much as it can.

Four years and NO BUDGET??

Every cent that the government spend is explicitly authorized by Congress. If that is not a budget, I don't know what is.

If you want details, go ahead:
2012 United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Lonestar_logic]

And yet they produce absolutely nothing.

What your saying is they take money from us and spend it to grow the economy.

Well couldn't we just spend OUR money OURSELVES and get the same desired result?

Tell me whan has the private sector ever stopped spending?

I'm the private sector and I spend money everyday of my life and will continue until the day I die.

If you're talking about corporations sitting on their money, well blame the liberal government for that.

Four years and NO BUDGET??

And they think they can manage my money better?

PUHLEASE!!

you have a bumper-sticker understanding of economics.

Economics is fairly simple. You cannot spend money you do not have. You cannot keep borrowing from your grandchildren and not expect repercussions.

I've been running a successful business for quite a few years plus a modest cattle operation. I think I got economics 101 figured out.

Too bad our liberal government doesn't.

If you think taking money from hardworking people and spending it on shit like...

•Massage in Rabbits. - $386,000 – Ohio State University. The official title of the study is “Massage Therapy in Eccentric Exercise Induced Muscle Weakness and Inflammation.” The principal investigator confirmed with me that it is as it read – a study applying massage to rabbits to try to figure out what is the best massage duration.

•The Role of Breathing in Meditation. $453,000 – University of California San Francisco. Yes, nearly half a million dollars of taxpayers money to tell us that breathing is important in meditation. I predict breathing is important in most things…

•Losing weight through meditation. $1,158,000 - University of California San Francisco. The study, entitled “Metabolic and Immunologic Effects of Meditation” seeks to find out if one meditates, will they shed pounds. My guess is if you meditate near your fridge, you probably won’t. Add this to the $480,000 to study “Yoga for Therapy of the Metabolic Syndrome” University of California San Francisco, and we can see a new Meditate and Yoga Your Way to Slim video soon.

•Dismantling Mindfulness: Contributions of Attention vs. Acceptance. $134,000 to Brown University for something that sounds pretty darn flaky.

•Structural, Functional, and Behavioral Effects of Meditation – Mass. General Hospital - $438,265. This study take 90 stressed out people and tries to figure out how meditation makes them relax.

•Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction and Cognitive Function in Stress and Aging - Washington University - $200,640.

•Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction as and Adjunctive Treatment for Psoriasis – - $533,074 – University of Rochester.

•Mechanisms of Meditation - $320,00 - Emory University.

...then you're no smarter than Truthmatters.


Source

 

[uscitizen]

Why is it Necessary to Mislead


Why? Do you think the rest of congress would have passed the fiscal cliff bill if they had known that Mcconnel, Hatch and others had put 1/2 trillion of taxpayer debt into Amgens pocket in the bill?

 

[ogibillm]

And yet they produce absolutely nothing.

What your saying is they take money from us and spend it to grow the economy.

Well couldn't we just spend OUR money OURSELVES and get the same desired result?

Tell me whan has the private sector ever stopped spending?

I'm the private sector and I spend money everyday of my life and will continue until the day I die.

If you're talking about corporations sitting on their money, well blame the liberal government for that.

Four years and NO BUDGET??

And they think they can manage my money better?

PUHLEASE!!

you have a bumper-sticker understanding of economics.

Economics is fairly simple. You cannot spend money you do not have. You cannot keep borrowing from your grandchildren and not expect repercussions.

I've been running a successful business for quite a few years plus a modest cattle operation. I think I got economics 101 figured out.

Too bad our liberal government doesn't.

If you think taking money from hardworking people and spending it on shit like...

•Massage in Rabbits. - $386,000 – Ohio State University. The official title of the study is “Massage Therapy in Eccentric Exercise Induced Muscle Weakness and Inflammation.” The principal investigator confirmed with me that it is as it read – a study applying massage to rabbits to try to figure out what is the best massage duration.

•The Role of Breathing in Meditation. $453,000 – University of California San Francisco. Yes, nearly half a million dollars of taxpayers money to tell us that breathing is important in meditation. I predict breathing is important in most things…

•Losing weight through meditation. $1,158,000 - University of California San Francisco. The study, entitled “Metabolic and Immunologic Effects of Meditation” seeks to find out if one meditates, will they shed pounds. My guess is if you meditate near your fridge, you probably won’t. Add this to the $480,000 to study “Yoga for Therapy of the Metabolic Syndrome” University of California San Francisco, and we can see a new Meditate and Yoga Your Way to Slim video soon.

•Dismantling Mindfulness: Contributions of Attention vs. Acceptance. $134,000 to Brown University for something that sounds pretty darn flaky.

•Structural, Functional, and Behavioral Effects of Meditation – Mass. General Hospital - $438,265. This study take 90 stressed out people and tries to figure out how meditation makes them relax.

•Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction and Cognitive Function in Stress and Aging - Washington University - $200,640.

•Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction as and Adjunctive Treatment for Psoriasis – - $533,074 – University of Rochester.

•Mechanisms of Meditation - $320,00 - Emory University.

...then you're no smarter than Truthmatters.


Source

and there's your problem. you believe that the budget of a government is analogous to your personal budget - or even your business budget.

it isn't.

and i'm not saying there isn't waste. that is really a separate issue from whether or not government spending can or does drive an economy during times of private sector struggles.

 

[g5000]

And yet they produce absolutely nothing.

What your saying is they take money from us and spend it to grow the economy.

Well couldn't we just spend OUR money OURSELVES and get the same desired result?

Tell me whan has the private sector ever stopped spending?

I'm the private sector and I spend money everyday of my life and will continue until the day I die.

If you're talking about corporations sitting on their money, well blame the liberal government for that.

Four years and NO BUDGET??

And they think they can manage my money better?

PUHLEASE!!

you have a bumper-sticker understanding of economics.

Economics is fairly simple. You cannot spend money you do not have. You cannot keep borrowing from your grandchildren and not expect repercussions.

I've been running a successful business for quite a few years plus a modest cattle operation. I think I got economics 101 figured out.

Too bad our liberal government doesn't.

If you think taking money from hardworking people and spending it on shit like...

•Massage in Rabbits. - $386,000 – Ohio State University. The official title of the study is “Massage Therapy in Eccentric Exercise Induced Muscle Weakness and Inflammation.” The principal investigator confirmed with me that it is as it read – a study applying massage to rabbits to try to figure out what is the best massage duration.

•The Role of Breathing in Meditation. $453,000 – University of California San Francisco. Yes, nearly half a million dollars of taxpayers money to tell us that breathing is important in meditation. I predict breathing is important in most things…

•Losing weight through meditation. $1,158,000 - University of California San Francisco. The study, entitled “Metabolic and Immunologic Effects of Meditation” seeks to find out if one meditates, will they shed pounds. My guess is if you meditate near your fridge, you probably won’t. Add this to the $480,000 to study “Yoga for Therapy of the Metabolic Syndrome” University of California San Francisco, and we can see a new Meditate and Yoga Your Way to Slim video soon.

•Dismantling Mindfulness: Contributions of Attention vs. Acceptance. $134,000 to Brown University for something that sounds pretty darn flaky.

•Structural, Functional, and Behavioral Effects of Meditation – Mass. General Hospital - $438,265. This study take 90 stressed out people and tries to figure out how meditation makes them relax.

•Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction and Cognitive Function in Stress and Aging - Washington University - $200,640.

•Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction as and Adjunctive Treatment for Psoriasis – - $533,074 – University of Rochester.

•Mechanisms of Meditation - $320,00 - Emory University.

...then you're no smarter than Truthmatters.


Source

You left out $395.7 billion for an F-35.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Government jobs, government projects, government money picking up private sector slack.

Spending makes the economy go round, when the private sector stops spending the worst thing the government can do is follow suit.

And yet they produce absolutely nothing.

What your saying is they take money from us and spend it to grow the economy.

Well couldn't we just spend OUR money OURSELVES and get the same desired result?

Tell me whan has the private sector ever stopped spending?

I'm the private sector and I spend money everyday of my life and will continue until the day I die.

If you're talking about corporations sitting on their money, well blame the liberal government for that.

Four years and NO BUDGET??

And they think they can manage my money better?

PUHLEASE!!

Tax cuts can work to jump start the economy, can, but not always. The poor who receive tax refunds do a great job of feeding that money right back into the markets. Everyone else has a tendency to horde, not spend. If you look at the jobs numbers you can see that the private sector is adding but the public one is shrinking, which is a serious drag on the economy.

The poor doesn't pay federal taxes. Hell 47 percent of Americans don't pay federal income tax.

You want to know the facts? In California there are damn near more people living off the government than there are people working. How long do you think that can go on?

 

[g5000]

And yet they produce absolutely nothing.

What your saying is they take money from us and spend it to grow the economy.

Well couldn't we just spend OUR money OURSELVES and get the same desired result?

Tell me whan has the private sector ever stopped spending?

I'm the private sector and I spend money everyday of my life and will continue until the day I die.

If you're talking about corporations sitting on their money, well blame the liberal government for that.

Four years and NO BUDGET??

And they think they can manage my money better?

PUHLEASE!!

Tax cuts can work to jump start the economy, can, but not always. The poor who receive tax refunds do a great job of feeding that money right back into the markets. Everyone else has a tendency to horde, not spend. If you look at the jobs numbers you can see that the private sector is adding but the public one is shrinking, which is a serious drag on the economy.

The poor doesn't pay federal taxes. Hell 47 percent of Americans don't pay federal income tax.

You want to know the facts? In California there are damn near more people living off the government than there are people working. How long do you think that can go on?

"The poor doesn't pay federal taxes." Nice grammar.

You want to know the facts? Anyone who earns a paycheck pays federal taxes. Look at your pay stub and learn something new.

Remember all the recent bitching about Obama raising taxes on 77 percent of Americans? Isn't it hilarious that doublethink did not conflict with the piss drinkers' belief that 47% of Americans don't pay federal taxes?

I tell ya, you guys are just too easy. It's like you don't think beyond 30 seconds ago.

 

[ilia25]

you have a bumper-sticker understanding of economics.

Economics is fairly simple. You cannot spend money you do not have. You cannot keep borrowing from your grandchildren and not expect repercussions.

That is precisely what you can call a bumber-sticker understanding of economics. For example, the US government had in fact kept borrowing since 1779, and its debt was growing exponentially for the past 200 years. That never is a problem because the US economy was also growing exponentially, and faster than the debt.

So yes you can keep borrowing from your grandchildren forever. Not to mention that the government debt is owned by the very grandchildren above.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Tell me whan has the private sector ever stopped spending?

Where have you been the past 5 years? The single reason the US economy is weak is because the private sector had cut on spending after the big scare in 2008. And it keeps saving as much as it can.

Four years and NO BUDGET??

Every cent that the government spend is explicitly authorized by Congress. If that is not a budget, I don't know what is.

If you want details, go ahead:
2012 United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So now "cut" means "stopped"?

Authorizing spending is not creating a budget, doofus!

The last time the Democratic-controlled U.S. Senate passed a budget was April 29, 2009.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Source is today's front page, which only includes FIT rates. It is difficult to get comparable overall statistics, since we have many more taxes and fees, especially at the state and local levels, than do most other countries. Just take a look at your telephone bill.

Your say so (or mine, for that matter) does not cut it as a source. Give us some links to evaluate your assertion.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

you have a bumper-sticker understanding of economics.

Economics is fairly simple. You cannot spend money you do not have. You cannot keep borrowing from your grandchildren and not expect repercussions.

I've been running a successful business for quite a few years plus a modest cattle operation. I think I got economics 101 figured out.

Too bad our liberal government doesn't.

If you think taking money from hardworking people and spending it on shit like...

•Massage in Rabbits. - $386,000 – Ohio State University. The official title of the study is “Massage Therapy in Eccentric Exercise Induced Muscle Weakness and Inflammation.” The principal investigator confirmed with me that it is as it read – a study applying massage to rabbits to try to figure out what is the best massage duration.

•The Role of Breathing in Meditation. $453,000 – University of California San Francisco. Yes, nearly half a million dollars of taxpayers money to tell us that breathing is important in meditation. I predict breathing is important in most things…

•Losing weight through meditation. $1,158,000 - University of California San Francisco. The study, entitled “Metabolic and Immunologic Effects of Meditation” seeks to find out if one meditates, will they shed pounds. My guess is if you meditate near your fridge, you probably won’t. Add this to the $480,000 to study “Yoga for Therapy of the Metabolic Syndrome” University of California San Francisco, and we can see a new Meditate and Yoga Your Way to Slim video soon.

•Dismantling Mindfulness: Contributions of Attention vs. Acceptance. $134,000 to Brown University for something that sounds pretty darn flaky.

•Structural, Functional, and Behavioral Effects of Meditation – Mass. General Hospital - $438,265. This study take 90 stressed out people and tries to figure out how meditation makes them relax.

•Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction and Cognitive Function in Stress and Aging - Washington University - $200,640.

•Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction as and Adjunctive Treatment for Psoriasis – - $533,074 – University of Rochester.

•Mechanisms of Meditation - $320,00 - Emory University.

...then you're no smarter than Truthmatters.


Source

and there's your problem. you believe that the budget of a government is analogous to your personal budget - or even your business budget.

it isn't.

and i'm not saying there isn't waste. that is really a separate issue from whether or not government spending can or does drive an economy during times of private sector struggles.

A budget is a budget you moron. The only difference in a household or business budget and the government budget is the scope.

 

[g5000]

When people compare their budget to the US budget to make some kind of political point, they conveniently forget just how leveraged they are with their mortgage.

Way above and beyond what the federal government is.

 

[Katzndogz]

What is interesting is the chart shows Belgium with a higher tax rate than France. The French are leaving France to move to lower taxed Belgium. Is the chart out of date or flat out lying?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Tax cuts can work to jump start the economy, can, but not always. The poor who receive tax refunds do a great job of feeding that money right back into the markets. Everyone else has a tendency to horde, not spend. If you look at the jobs numbers you can see that the private sector is adding but the public one is shrinking, which is a serious drag on the economy.

The poor doesn't pay federal taxes. Hell 47 percent of Americans don't pay federal income tax.

You want to know the facts? In California there are damn near more people living off the government than there are people working. How long do you think that can go on?

"The poor doesn't pay federal taxes." Nice grammar.

You want to know the facts? Anyone who earns a paycheck pays federal taxes. Look at your pay stub and learn something new.

Remember all the recent bitching about Obama raising taxes on 77 percent of Americans? Isn't it hilarious that doublethink did not conflict with the piss drinkers' belief that 47% of Americans don't pay federal taxes?

I tell ya, you guys are just too easy. It's like you don't think beyond 30 seconds ago.

Typical liberal idiot.

Can't argue against the facts so lets attack the grammar.

Federal taxes that they get back at the end of the year. So are you really paying?NOOOOOOOOOO

BTW I do pay federal taxes!

Now your confusing payroll taxes that did go up on everyone with federal income tax.

Give it a break, You have no clue what your talking or even arguing about.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The average tax burden for US citizens is misleading since nearly 50% of people with income pay no income tax and some of them actually pay a net negative tax meaning they get back all the income tax deducted from their pay plus more.

Using top marginal rates is not a good measure either.

The only true measure is the net effective taxation rate which is function of the taxes you actually pay, not your marginal tax bracket, and your gross income.

Tax Freedom Day ® | Tax Foundation

and the income tax is only ONE tax

some wealthy people pay no income tax