- Apr 17, 2009
- 112,939
- 38,412
So do the guys he's shooting.
Why is the far left so upset that a 17 year old Patriot shoot arsonists and looters?
- Thread starter The2ndAmendment
- Start date
So do the guys he's shooting.
Flopper
Diamond Member
- Mar 23, 2010
- 31,683
- 8,808
This police reaction to the event of a black man violating a restraining order and a white man who killed 2 people and injured another is a perfect example of why this country is being torn apart by racism.
Kyle Rittenhouse , a 17year old with an AR15, coming from out of town, marched the streets of Kenosha and killed 2 people and injured another person. Police let him go home that night and he was only charged the next morning.
While Jacob Blake, an unarmed black man was shot 7 times in the back in front of his kids, in an arrest for violating a restraining order. He was heavily sedated, paralyzed from the waist down and he was shackled to a hospital bed.
Rittenhouse is a hero to the alt-right white racists while Blake is a martyr to BLM. More to follow, much more.
iceberg
Diamond Member
- May 15, 2017
- 36,788
- 14,920
You have not once directly answered me in about 6 times I have asked.Have you ever identified these mythical white supremacists you keep throwing at me but can never name what they are destroying?Dunno but there's a midget on the beach screaming DA PLANE BOSS DA Plane there I'm sure.my god youre a dishonest person,,,because at this point you cant be that ignorant,,,when are you going to stop lying,,,He should not be charged at all---he only shot to defend himself............he wasnt reckless and nor even intentional.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing […]www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
Honest to god Mac, my heart goes out to this 17 yr old, who's life is now ruined. The other's are dead. He even carried a medic kit for heaven's sakes. WE FAILED HIM.
Oh baloney. He shot three unarmed men. He was illegally armed. He was an active shooter. Two men tried to stop him and detain him for the police, and he shot them. He has two lives on his hands. If he were a leftist you would be calling for a hanging.
one guy had a gun and the other had a blunt object he used as a weapon and he was running from them after being attacked by a 3rd man he had to shoot,,
if you took time to watch the video proof you would know that,,,
You got it a bit wrong here.
He shot a man in the head. That was the first event. That man had no blunt object, weapon, or a gun.
Then he ran.
Two people then tried to bring an active shooter down until the police could get there. One guy was shot and killed by the active shooter. Another guy, a good guy, with a gun, pointed it at him, and got shot and wounded by the active shooter.
What STARTED the chain of events? A kid, illegally carrying a gun, involving himself in something he shouldn't have been in, and getting in over his head and becoming and active shooter - whom no one knows him, no one knows his intentions, no one knows if he is going to keep shooting people, and no one knows why is there.
YOU STOP LYING.
and we got the video evidence that proves you wrong,,,
OH and reread my comment because I didnt say it the way you described it,,,One was carrying a gun fuckface. He drew it on the kid.He should not be charged at all---he only shot to defend himself............he wasnt reckless and nor even intentional.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing […]www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
Honest to god Mac, my heart goes out to this 17 yr old, who's life is now ruined. The other's are dead. He even carried a medic kit for heaven's sakes. WE FAILED HIM.
Oh baloney. He shot three unarmed men. He was illegally armed. He was an active shooter. Two men tried to stop him and detain him for the police, and he shot them. He has two lives on his hands. If he were a leftist you would be calling for a hanging.
Who was armed and had already shot one person dead. An active shooter.
A kid, running away from a violent felon and defending himself is NOT an active shooter. Where do you come up with this nonsense.
Have you identified this mythical violent felon?
Multiple times, multiple links. If you can't read or choose to ignore them, that's not my problem. Are you just trolling for attention now?
That answers my question for me.
- Apr 17, 2009
- 112,939
- 38,412
He didn't trot off. He circle around the car to check on the guy and got on his phone and called the police to tell them he shot someone and they needed assistance. Then he saw a group charging him and he ran which led to the second incident. You really need to see that fucking video. You just can't seem to take the time, can you?depends on what you consider a weapon,,,and based on your earlier comments you have no idea what that is,,,thats just another of your lies,,,Did you fail to see the dude who almost got his arm shot off holding a gun?He should not be charged at all---he only shot to defend himself............he wasnt reckless and nor even intentional.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing […]www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
Honest to god Mac, my heart goes out to this 17 yr old, who's life is now ruined. The other's are dead. He even carried a medic kit for heaven's sakes. WE FAILED HIM.
Oh baloney. He shot three unarmed men. He was illegally armed. He was an active shooter. Two men tried to stop him and detain him for the police, and he shot them. He has two lives on his hands. If he were a leftist you would be calling for a hanging.
How can I take you seriously when you don't even admit that?
Nope. My mistake. Two unarmed men, and one acting in self defense.
Your own honesty is seriously questionable. Rittenhouse had shot and killed one man already. That is not in dispute. That man wasn't armed either. That is not in dispute.
The smart thing to do would have been to let him go - but he had ALREADY killed a man.
This might be the most concise accounting so far: Criminal Complaint Against Kyle Rittenhouse Details Prosecutors' Version Of Events In Kenosha Shooting That Killed 2, Wounded 1
he shot the guy because he was attacking him by throwing things at him that could hurt or kill him,,some say even a molotov cocktail,,,
waiting to hear the full details but the fact remains he was defending himself not randomly killing people like you want is to believe,,,
The Molotov cocktail has been debunked. What was thrown was identified as a plastic bag, like a trash bag.
No. I don't claim he was randomly killing people, but I am saying that is one perception. There is NO WAY for any of those people around him to know that was there? And you know damn well if he had been a leftist you would not say self defense, just like you (maybe not you specifically, but you in general) have to make up crap about how the dead guys were violent felons and pedophiles.
What would you think if you participating in a demonstration, and you saw an active shooter trotting off, and you heard some one say "he just shot someone"? I would let the police handle it...but then, I'm not a man...and the police ended up just throwing him a bottle of water and letting him go home across state lines. I've never heard of that happening before.
There are a whole lot of videos out there showing different bits and pieces. I have not watched them all. In one of them, he's trotting away.
- Apr 17, 2009
- 112,939
- 38,412
You have not once directly answered me in about 6 times I have asked.Have you ever identified these mythical white supremacists you keep throwing at me but can never name what they are destroying?Dunno but there's a midget on the beach screaming DA PLANE BOSS DA Plane there I'm sure.my god youre a dishonest person,,,because at this point you cant be that ignorant,,,when are you going to stop lying,,,He should not be charged at all---he only shot to defend himself............he wasnt reckless and nor even intentional.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing […]www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
Honest to god Mac, my heart goes out to this 17 yr old, who's life is now ruined. The other's are dead. He even carried a medic kit for heaven's sakes. WE FAILED HIM.
Oh baloney. He shot three unarmed men. He was illegally armed. He was an active shooter. Two men tried to stop him and detain him for the police, and he shot them. He has two lives on his hands. If he were a leftist you would be calling for a hanging.
one guy had a gun and the other had a blunt object he used as a weapon and he was running from them after being attacked by a 3rd man he had to shoot,,
if you took time to watch the video proof you would know that,,,
You got it a bit wrong here.
He shot a man in the head. That was the first event. That man had no blunt object, weapon, or a gun.
Then he ran.
Two people then tried to bring an active shooter down until the police could get there. One guy was shot and killed by the active shooter. Another guy, a good guy, with a gun, pointed it at him, and got shot and wounded by the active shooter.
What STARTED the chain of events? A kid, illegally carrying a gun, involving himself in something he shouldn't have been in, and getting in over his head and becoming and active shooter - whom no one knows him, no one knows his intentions, no one knows if he is going to keep shooting people, and no one knows why is there.
YOU STOP LYING.
and we got the video evidence that proves you wrong,,,
OH and reread my comment because I didnt say it the way you described it,,,One was carrying a gun fuckface. He drew it on the kid.He should not be charged at all---he only shot to defend himself............he wasnt reckless and nor even intentional.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing […]www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
Honest to god Mac, my heart goes out to this 17 yr old, who's life is now ruined. The other's are dead. He even carried a medic kit for heaven's sakes. WE FAILED HIM.
Oh baloney. He shot three unarmed men. He was illegally armed. He was an active shooter. Two men tried to stop him and detain him for the police, and he shot them. He has two lives on his hands. If he were a leftist you would be calling for a hanging.
Who was armed and had already shot one person dead. An active shooter.
A kid, running away from a violent felon and defending himself is NOT an active shooter. Where do you come up with this nonsense.
Have you identified this mythical violent felon?
Multiple times, multiple links. If you can't read or choose to ignore them, that's not my problem. Are you just trolling for attention now?
That answers my question for me.
I've answered it IN THE THREADS we were both in. I'm not your servant.
iceberg
Diamond Member
- May 15, 2017
- 36,788
- 14,920
never said you were. but I asked you a direct question and your answer is now ignore the fuck. out of said question 6 times and tell me "it's in here somewhere"You have not once directly answered me in about 6 times I have asked.Have you ever identified these mythical white supremacists you keep throwing at me but can never name what they are destroying?Dunno but there's a midget on the beach screaming DA PLANE BOSS DA Plane there I'm sure.my god youre a dishonest person,,,because at this point you cant be that ignorant,,,when are you going to stop lying,,,He should not be charged at all---he only shot to defend himself............he wasnt reckless and nor even intentional.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing […]www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
Honest to god Mac, my heart goes out to this 17 yr old, who's life is now ruined. The other's are dead. He even carried a medic kit for heaven's sakes. WE FAILED HIM.
Oh baloney. He shot three unarmed men. He was illegally armed. He was an active shooter. Two men tried to stop him and detain him for the police, and he shot them. He has two lives on his hands. If he were a leftist you would be calling for a hanging.
one guy had a gun and the other had a blunt object he used as a weapon and he was running from them after being attacked by a 3rd man he had to shoot,,
if you took time to watch the video proof you would know that,,,
You got it a bit wrong here.
He shot a man in the head. That was the first event. That man had no blunt object, weapon, or a gun.
Then he ran.
Two people then tried to bring an active shooter down until the police could get there. One guy was shot and killed by the active shooter. Another guy, a good guy, with a gun, pointed it at him, and got shot and wounded by the active shooter.
What STARTED the chain of events? A kid, illegally carrying a gun, involving himself in something he shouldn't have been in, and getting in over his head and becoming and active shooter - whom no one knows him, no one knows his intentions, no one knows if he is going to keep shooting people, and no one knows why is there.
YOU STOP LYING.
and we got the video evidence that proves you wrong,,,
OH and reread my comment because I didnt say it the way you described it,,,One was carrying a gun fuckface. He drew it on the kid.He should not be charged at all---he only shot to defend himself............he wasnt reckless and nor even intentional.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing […]www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
Honest to god Mac, my heart goes out to this 17 yr old, who's life is now ruined. The other's are dead. He even carried a medic kit for heaven's sakes. WE FAILED HIM.
Oh baloney. He shot three unarmed men. He was illegally armed. He was an active shooter. Two men tried to stop him and detain him for the police, and he shot them. He has two lives on his hands. If he were a leftist you would be calling for a hanging.
Who was armed and had already shot one person dead. An active shooter.
A kid, running away from a violent felon and defending himself is NOT an active shooter. Where do you come up with this nonsense.
Have you identified this mythical violent felon?
Multiple times, multiple links. If you can't read or choose to ignore them, that's not my problem. Are you just trolling for attention now?
That answers my question for me.
I've answered it IN THE THREADS we were both in. I'm not your servant.
sell that shit somewhere else.
skye
Diamond Member
- Oct 19, 2012
- 62,451
- 61,855
- Apr 17, 2009
- 112,939
- 38,412
A pity you aren't capable of envisioning a situation where both win.
skye
Diamond Member
- Oct 19, 2012
- 62,451
- 61,855
A pity you aren't capable of envisioning a situation where both win.
I know, in a theoretical world that would be the case...
But we live in a very different kind of world.
- Jul 22, 2016
- 35,924
- 16,028
/——/ Self Defense
17-year-old charged in two shooting deaths amid a chaotic demonstration Kenosha, Wis., earlier this week was in fear for his life after being attacked by rioters who chased him down and beat him while on the ground when he fired in self-defense, his attorney said Friday.
Accused Kenosha shooter's lawyer claims self-defense amid new video
Rye Catcher
Platinum Member
- Nov 21, 2019
- 12,780
- 7,608
The "citizen" will be lucky if he does not get the needle. Lifetime w/o parole at FDX Florence is what this scumbag deserves. Lets' see, he's 17 so he will leave the prison sometime around the turn of the new century, 2101
Ken Mac
Platinum Member
- Nov 21, 2019
- 1,736
- 893
He didn't trot off. He circle around the car to check on the guy and got on his phone and called the police to tell them he shot someone and they needed assistance. Then he saw a group charging him and he ran which led to the second incident. You really need to see that fucking video. You just can't seem to take the time, can you?depends on what you consider a weapon,,,and based on your earlier comments you have no idea what that is,,,thats just another of your lies,,,Did you fail to see the dude who almost got his arm shot off holding a gun?He should not be charged at all---he only shot to defend himself............he wasnt reckless and nor even intentional.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing […]www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
Honest to god Mac, my heart goes out to this 17 yr old, who's life is now ruined. The other's are dead. He even carried a medic kit for heaven's sakes. WE FAILED HIM.
Oh baloney. He shot three unarmed men. He was illegally armed. He was an active shooter. Two men tried to stop him and detain him for the police, and he shot them. He has two lives on his hands. If he were a leftist you would be calling for a hanging.
How can I take you seriously when you don't even admit that?
Nope. My mistake. Two unarmed men, and one acting in self defense.
The smart thing to do would have been to let him go - but he had ALREADY killed a man.
This might be the most concise accounting so far: Criminal Complaint Against Kyle Rittenhouse Details Prosecutors' Version Of Events In Kenosha Shooting That Killed 2, Wounded 1
he shot the guy because he was attacking him by throwing things at him that could hurt or kill him,,some say even a molotov cocktail,,,
waiting to hear the full details but the fact remains he was defending himself not randomly killing people like you want is to believe,,,
The Molotov cocktail has been debunked. What was thrown was identified as a plastic bag, like a trash bag.
No. I don't claim he was randomly killing people, but I am saying that is one perception. There is NO WAY for any of those people around him to know that was there? And you know damn well if he had been a leftist you would not say self defense, just like you (maybe not you specifically, but you in general) have to make up crap about how the dead guys were violent felons and pedophiles.
What would you think if you participating in a demonstration, and you saw an active shooter trotting off, and you heard some one say "he just shot someone"? I would let the police handle it...but then, I'm not a man...and the police ended up just throwing him a bottle of water and letting him go home across state lines. I've never heard of that happening before.
There are a whole lot of videos out there showing different bits and pieces. I have not watched them all. In one of them, he's trotting away.
I'm giving you a link to a great breakdown on the videos. It isn't that long and you'll get a lot more information than what you are feeding on here. Just take a chance and watch it FFS.
Dogmaphobe
Diamond Member
- Sep 22, 2014
- 37,284
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At least for now. Considering the number of Stalinist posters we have here who want to take away that right in order to impose their totalitarian woketopia, it might not be for long.
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Dogmaphobe
Diamond Member
- Sep 22, 2014
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All for self defense too.
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jackflash
Diamond Member
- Jul 18, 2020
- 5,492
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W
Why? I'd say the marxist statist left see the event as NOT forwarding their P)ower & C)ontrol{PC} agenda. Just a guess.
Why? I'd say the marxist statist left see the event as NOT forwarding their P)ower & C)ontrol{PC} agenda. Just a guess.
progressive hunter
Diamond Member
- Dec 11, 2018
- 62,668
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save your bullshit,,,maybe this will shut you up as to their intentions,,,I doubt it,,,
Armed leftwing agitator wounded when Rittenhouse fired in self defense regrets not MURDERING the 17-year-old
The third person shot in Kenosha, the 26-year-old agitator who was wounded but lived, regrets that he didn’t kill Kyle Rittenhouse – who he attempted to shoot – during the riots s…therightscoop.com
Nope. Leftwing agitator huh? That kind of ruins the source's credibility...when it's full of red flag language like that.
This is the most unemotional and factual accounting I've seen: Criminal Complaint Against Kyle Rittenhouse Details Prosecutors' Version Of Events In Kenosha Shooting That Killed 2, Wounded 1
I'm curious. What would you do if you were participating in a demonstration and one of your fellow demonstrators were shot, you see a guy running and someone is yelling "hey, he shot someone"?
(and there is no evidence as of yet that the dead men or the wounded man were engaged in illegal activity).
you just admitted you didnt know what started it after you called him an active shooter and a murderer,,,
now go play with your dolls or something and leave the adults to solve the problem,,,
progressive hunter
Diamond Member
- Dec 11, 2018
- 62,668
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A DEMONSTRATION???maybe this will shut you up as to their intentions,,,I doubt it,,,
Armed leftwing agitator wounded when Rittenhouse fired in self defense regrets not MURDERING the 17-year-old
The third person shot in Kenosha, the 26-year-old agitator who was wounded but lived, regrets that he didn’t kill Kyle Rittenhouse – who he attempted to shoot – during the riots s…
Nope. Leftwing agitator huh? That kind of ruins the source's credibility...when it's full of red flag language like that.
This is the most unemotional and factual accounting I've seen: Criminal Complaint Against Kyle Rittenhouse Details Prosecutors' Version Of Events In Kenosha Shooting That Killed 2, Wounded 1
I'm curious. What would you do if you were participating in a demonstration and one of your fellow demonstrators were shot, you see a guy running and someone is yelling "hey, he shot someone"?
(and there is no evidence as of yet that the dead men or the wounded man were engaged in illegal activity).
are you fucking kidding me with that shit???
IT WAS A FUCKING RIOT WHERE THERE WERE TRYING TO BURN THE WHOLE MOTHER FUCKER DOWN,,,
their words not mine,,,
go play with your dolls,,,
HereinVirginia
Senior Member
- Jun 6, 2020
- 198
- 131
Well, clearly you are easy pikens for the savages in the street then.
Ken Mac
Platinum Member
- Nov 21, 2019
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He wasn't fucking attacking them.
progressive hunter
Diamond Member
- Dec 11, 2018
- 62,668
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