Why Libertarianism Is So Dangerous...

[RKMBrown]

Your sales agreement is not between you and the government. It's between you and the property owner. Government is a third party with nothing at stake in the deal.

End of story.

You're grasping at straws.

Yes, my property sales agreement most certainly did involve many third parties. My particular sales agreement involved the seller, a reseller, another party that held 10% of the mineral rights, the land owner's association for all properties in my sub-division, the county commish who represents the citizens of my county, and the state comptroller of Texas who represents the citizens of the State of TX.

Have you never bought a piece of property? You appear to be grasping for facts that are merely imagined in your head.

Yes but there is a clear difference with those parties and the government. With the association, they manage communal property that you all OWN. A piece of that property is included in your property and you are therefore liable for its upkeep. Same goes with all the others that you mentioned they are all party to the process not because they are some random third party that is edging into your deal but because they are actual owners of something connected with that purchase. Government, on the other hand, owns nothing at all within that area. They are not a party to it in any shape or form. Those taxes are arbitrarily imposed on any transaction and there is nothing that you can do about it. Don’t want an association? Buy a property that has no communal property. Don’t want to be taxed, buy….. um… er….

Nothing. There is no way out of that state tax other than purchasing a property that is not in the state. Now, that’s even out of the question as there is no state that does not impose some sort of property tax that I am aware of. In essence, you don’t actually own anything. You did not really purchase any property at any time in your life. What you did was lease it from the government. They can raise that cost on your lease at any time and if you don’t pay, they are going to take it away.

There is a clear difference in tax and what you are mentioning and that clear difference is actual ownership of the property.

Ok we are getting closer to the error.

You admit that "with the association, they manage communal property that you all OWN." You then follow that with a second admission that "a piece of that property is included in your property and you are therefore liable for its upkeep."

The same thing applies to government managed lands. The government is merely the association. The communal property that we all own is the city, state, and country properties. There is no person named government. Government employees work for the citizens of this country, the citizens of your state, and the citizens of your city.

You have everything backwards when it comes to government employees' relationship with the citizens of this country. They, the government workers, work for us not the other way around. This is our country not the government workers' country. There is no such thing as a person named government they, the government workers, are all employees subject to us firing them.

You say government does not own your property. There is no person named government. As I said a hundred times. You are not the only owner of property in your state. There are shared properties in your state. Properties that YOU own along with all the other land owners, and now voters after the BS voting changes that happened after the civil war.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, my property sales agreement most certainly did involve many third parties. My particular sales agreement involved the seller, a reseller, another party that held 10% of the mineral rights, the land owner's association for all properties in my sub-division, the county commish who represents the citizens of my county, and the state comptroller of Texas who represents the citizens of the State of TX.

Have you never bought a piece of property? You appear to be grasping for facts that are merely imagined in your head.

Yes but there is a clear difference with those parties and the government. With the association, they manage communal property that you all OWN. A piece of that property is included in your property and you are therefore liable for its upkeep. Same goes with all the others that you mentioned they are all party to the process not because they are some random third party that is edging into your deal but because they are actual owners of something connected with that purchase. Government, on the other hand, owns nothing at all within that area. They are not a party to it in any shape or form. Those taxes are arbitrarily imposed on any transaction and there is nothing that you can do about it. Don’t want an association? Buy a property that has no communal property. Don’t want to be taxed, buy….. um… er….

Nothing. There is no way out of that state tax other than purchasing a property that is not in the state. Now, that’s even out of the question as there is no state that does not impose some sort of property tax that I am aware of. In essence, you don’t actually own anything. You did not really purchase any property at any time in your life. What you did was lease it from the government. They can raise that cost on your lease at any time and if you don’t pay, they are going to take it away.

There is a clear difference in tax and what you are mentioning and that clear difference is actual ownership of the property.

Ok we are getting closer to the error.

You admit that "with the association, they manage communal property that you all OWN." You then follow that with a second admission that "a piece of that property is included in your property and you are therefore liable for its upkeep."

The same thing applies to government managed lands. The government is merely the association. The communal property that we all own is the city, state, and country properties. There is no person named government. Government employees work for the citizens of this country, the citizens of your state, and the citizens of your city.

You have everything backwards when it comes to government employees' relationship with the citizens of this country. They, the government workers, work for us not the other way around. This is our country not the government workers' country. There is no such thing as a person named government they, the government workers, are all employees subject to us firing them.

You say government does not own your property. There is no person named government. As I said a hundred times. You are not the only owner of property in your state. There are shared properties in your state. Properties that YOU own along with all the other land owners, and now voters after the BS voting changes that happened after the civil war.

My home is not "government managed land," nimrod. Let this penetrate your skull: government has nothing at stake in a sales contract to purchase a piece of real estate. It simply inserts itself into the deal using brute force.

And, no, I do not "own" a public park or a fire station. The government owns them. There is no logical way you can claim that I am responsible for paying for these things.

 

[FA_Q2]

Yes, my property sales agreement most certainly did involve many third parties. My particular sales agreement involved the seller, a reseller, another party that held 10% of the mineral rights, the land owner's association for all properties in my sub-division, the county commish who represents the citizens of my county, and the state comptroller of Texas who represents the citizens of the State of TX.

Have you never bought a piece of property? You appear to be grasping for facts that are merely imagined in your head.

Yes but there is a clear difference with those parties and the government. With the association, they manage communal property that you all OWN. A piece of that property is included in your property and you are therefore liable for its upkeep. Same goes with all the others that you mentioned they are all party to the process not because they are some random third party that is edging into your deal but because they are actual owners of something connected with that purchase. Government, on the other hand, owns nothing at all within that area. They are not a party to it in any shape or form. Those taxes are arbitrarily imposed on any transaction and there is nothing that you can do about it. Don’t want an association? Buy a property that has no communal property. Don’t want to be taxed, buy….. um… er….

Nothing. There is no way out of that state tax other than purchasing a property that is not in the state. Now, that’s even out of the question as there is no state that does not impose some sort of property tax that I am aware of. In essence, you don’t actually own anything. You did not really purchase any property at any time in your life. What you did was lease it from the government. They can raise that cost on your lease at any time and if you don’t pay, they are going to take it away.

There is a clear difference in tax and what you are mentioning and that clear difference is actual ownership of the property.

Ok we are getting closer to the error.

You admit that "with the association, they manage communal property that you all OWN." You then follow that with a second admission that "a piece of that property is included in your property and you are therefore liable for its upkeep."

The same thing applies to government managed lands. The government is merely the association. The communal property that we all own is the city, state, and country properties. There is no person named government. Government employees work for the citizens of this country, the citizens of your state, and the citizens of your city.

You have everything backwards when it comes to government employees' relationship with the citizens of this country. They, the government workers, work for us not the other way around. This is our country not the government workers' country. There is no such thing as a person named government they, the government workers, are all employees subject to us firing them.

You say government does not own your property. There is no person named government. As I said a hundred times. You are not the only owner of property in your state. There are shared properties in your state. Properties that YOU own along with all the other land owners, and now voters after the BS voting changes that happened after the civil war.

That is not correct at all. You don’t ‘own’ more of the school down the street when you purchase a property and you have no more use than the random guy down the street who is not paying any property taxes at all. The government is simply not an interested third party or a part owner in the property that you are attempting to purchase. Again, they are capable of changing the agreement at any time, can take those funds and use it for any reason (something that an association is NOT capable of doing) and can raise the amount that is owed based on nothing more than they want more.

There might not be a ‘person’ named government but there is an entity that is named so and it acts in its own interests. It does not work for us. That is a misnomer. We have limited control through the vote to ensure that the government maintains a somewhat beneficial relationship with us but that has been corrupted by a century of apathetic and ignorant voting.

If your statement that we all own the communal property in the state was true then we would all pay for that communal property and be liable for the upkeep. That is not true though. Some pay for it, others do not and when you expand a liability from a community like in the condos to an entity that is thousands of square miles and contains millions of people the entire concept of ownership is utterly lost. The people in that group no longer act in a manner that is best for the group nor do they give a rats ass about what happens to it.

 

[RKMBrown]

Yes but there is a clear difference with those parties and the government. With the association, they manage communal property that you all OWN. A piece of that property is included in your property and you are therefore liable for its upkeep. Same goes with all the others that you mentioned they are all party to the process not because they are some random third party that is edging into your deal but because they are actual owners of something connected with that purchase. Government, on the other hand, owns nothing at all within that area. They are not a party to it in any shape or form. Those taxes are arbitrarily imposed on any transaction and there is nothing that you can do about it. Don’t want an association? Buy a property that has no communal property. Don’t want to be taxed, buy….. um… er….

Nothing. There is no way out of that state tax other than purchasing a property that is not in the state. Now, that’s even out of the question as there is no state that does not impose some sort of property tax that I am aware of. In essence, you don’t actually own anything. You did not really purchase any property at any time in your life. What you did was lease it from the government. They can raise that cost on your lease at any time and if you don’t pay, they are going to take it away.

There is a clear difference in tax and what you are mentioning and that clear difference is actual ownership of the property.

Ok we are getting closer to the error.

You admit that "with the association, they manage communal property that you all OWN." You then follow that with a second admission that "a piece of that property is included in your property and you are therefore liable for its upkeep."

The same thing applies to government managed lands. The government is merely the association. The communal property that we all own is the city, state, and country properties. There is no person named government. Government employees work for the citizens of this country, the citizens of your state, and the citizens of your city.

You have everything backwards when it comes to government employees' relationship with the citizens of this country. They, the government workers, work for us not the other way around. This is our country not the government workers' country. There is no such thing as a person named government they, the government workers, are all employees subject to us firing them.

You say government does not own your property. There is no person named government. As I said a hundred times. You are not the only owner of property in your state. There are shared properties in your state. Properties that YOU own along with all the other land owners, and now voters after the BS voting changes that happened after the civil war.

My home is not "government managed land," nimrod. Let this penetrate your skull: government has nothing at stake in a sales contract to purchase a piece of real estate. It simply inserts itself into the deal using brute force.

And, no, I do not "own" a public park or a fire station. The government owns them. There is no logical way you can claim that I am responsible for paying for these things.

Ok dufus show me the picture of this guy named government that owns public property. And how did the original owner of your land get to own that land without any public interest? By brute force? How did your land become yours alone with no public interest in it whatsoever, such as property taxes? How, if not by brute force? Why would the people of your land agree to let you avoid paying taxes for public lands and for maintaining the services that serve your land? What force do you propose to use to tell the people of your state to screw off? How about driving your car are you gonna start shooting government workers who tell you that you have to get your car registered?

 

[RKMBrown]

Yes but there is a clear difference with those parties and the government. With the association, they manage communal property that you all OWN. A piece of that property is included in your property and you are therefore liable for its upkeep. Same goes with all the others that you mentioned they are all party to the process not because they are some random third party that is edging into your deal but because they are actual owners of something connected with that purchase. Government, on the other hand, owns nothing at all within that area. They are not a party to it in any shape or form. Those taxes are arbitrarily imposed on any transaction and there is nothing that you can do about it. Don’t want an association? Buy a property that has no communal property. Don’t want to be taxed, buy….. um… er….

Nothing. There is no way out of that state tax other than purchasing a property that is not in the state. Now, that’s even out of the question as there is no state that does not impose some sort of property tax that I am aware of. In essence, you don’t actually own anything. You did not really purchase any property at any time in your life. What you did was lease it from the government. They can raise that cost on your lease at any time and if you don’t pay, they are going to take it away.

There is a clear difference in tax and what you are mentioning and that clear difference is actual ownership of the property.

Ok we are getting closer to the error.

You admit that "with the association, they manage communal property that you all OWN." You then follow that with a second admission that "a piece of that property is included in your property and you are therefore liable for its upkeep."

The same thing applies to government managed lands. The government is merely the association. The communal property that we all own is the city, state, and country properties. There is no person named government. Government employees work for the citizens of this country, the citizens of your state, and the citizens of your city.

You have everything backwards when it comes to government employees' relationship with the citizens of this country. They, the government workers, work for us not the other way around. This is our country not the government workers' country. There is no such thing as a person named government they, the government workers, are all employees subject to us firing them.

You say government does not own your property. There is no person named government. As I said a hundred times. You are not the only owner of property in your state. There are shared properties in your state. Properties that YOU own along with all the other land owners, and now voters after the BS voting changes that happened after the civil war.

That is not correct at all. You don’t ‘own’ more of the school down the street when you purchase a property and you have no more use than the random guy down the street who is not paying any property taxes at all. The government is simply not an interested third party or a part owner in the property that you are attempting to purchase. Again, they are capable of changing the agreement at any time, can take those funds and use it for any reason (something that an association is NOT capable of doing) and can raise the amount that is owed based on nothing more than they want more.

There might not be a ‘person’ named government but there is an entity that is named so and it acts in its own interests. It does not work for us. That is a misnomer. We have limited control through the vote to ensure that the government maintains a somewhat beneficial relationship with us but that has been corrupted by a century of apathetic and ignorant voting.

If your statement that we all own the communal property in the state was true then we would all pay for that communal property and be liable for the upkeep. That is not true though. Some pay for it, others do not and when you expand a liability from a community like in the condos to an entity that is thousands of square miles and contains millions of people the entire concept of ownership is utterly lost. The people in that group no longer act in a manner that is best for the group nor do they give a rats ass about what happens to it.

How can a concept called government own lands? How can an inanimate piece of paper describing the organizations we called government get up walk around and force you to do things? Government employees work for the citizens of the state. Government employees do the job we hire them to do. Government employees do not own public lands any more than any of the other citizens of the state. The ciitzens of the state own all public lands. The citizens of the state authorize with each hire and each vote the folks who will manage their public lands. When You buy a piece of property the citizens of the state insert themselves by the force of law into the agreement. Why? Because the country is ours, not yours alone, and not the person that sold it to you alone. Why? There is no piece of land that I know of that is within our borders that you can buy and claim is yours and also beyond the law of the land. However, you are free to put up a tent on most of our public lands without buying it.. why? Because it's public land.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Still playing "spin the wheel" in here I see....

 

[dblack]

Still playing "spin the wheel" in here I see....

Is that like 'spin the bottle'?

 

[RKMBrown]

Still playing "spin the wheel" in here I see....

Well we've sort of moved to what is this thing you guys fear called Government... the black caped evil guy that apparently is the force of all evil in this country.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

it's sort of like that, yeah.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Still playing "spin the wheel" in here I see....

Well we've sort of moved to what is this thing you guys fear called Government... the black caped evil guy that apparently is the force of all evil in this country.

With you, im sure you've moved all over the discussion map in a few posts.

Fear?

Making the effort to explain to you that taxation is compulsory and therefore theft, is nota matter of fear. it's a matter of fact.

 

[RKMBrown]

Still playing "spin the wheel" in here I see....

Well we've sort of moved to what is this thing you guys fear called Government... the black caped evil guy that apparently is the force of all evil in this country.

With you, im sure you've moved all over the discussion map in a few posts.

Fear?

Making the effort to explain to you that taxation is compulsory and therefore theft, is nota matter of fear. it's a matter of fact.

I fully agree that taxation which is compulsory equates to theft. My not so subtle issue is whether or not the act of volunteering to buy property throws out the whole compulsory argument. For example, getting married, you sign a contract, you abide by the contract you signed. You were not forced to get married. However, once married you thus have fiscal ties with your spouse. The same thing happens when you buy property. You are essentially getting married with the other property owners to share the property taxes of the state. You thus have agreed to share in the fiscal responsibility for the state by your signing the contract to take title. It's not force if you have an option to not own land. Yeah yeah... take it or leave. There is no group called government, the government workers are merely our employ, the government as you call it is merely a construct fashioned by the people of the state to provide said maintenance.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I fully agree that taxation which is compulsory equates to theft. My not so subtle issue is whether or not the act of volunteering to buy property throws out the whole compulsory argument.

it doesn't. I've explained this to you several times already.

 

[RKMBrown]

I fully agree that taxation which is compulsory equates to theft. My not so subtle issue is whether or not the act of volunteering to buy property throws out the whole compulsory argument.

it doesn't. I've explained this to you several times already.

Not to my satisfaction. I'm still waiting to find out why I had no choice but to buy my property for which I fully knew came with the rider of property tax to pay for the commonly owned properties and commonly funded services of the state of texas, for which I am a receiver.

I'm still waiting for you to provide proof that I had the right to buy property without compulsory property tax. I'm still waiting for an explanation why I would have the right to force all of the citizens of the state of texas to let me buy my property without the compulsary property tax. Why is my forcing them to pay for my common property and services any different than the citizens forcing me to pay for my common property and services? Which force is more righteous?

 

[paulitician]

Just take a closer look at how Gangs in this World operate on a lower level and smaller scale. That's exactly how most Governments in the World operate. They rule by fear and intimidation.

 

[RKMBrown]

This is why we should not treat Government as our masters, treating them as such gives them power over us that we do not wish to yield. Well at least some of us do not wish to live under tyranny through fear and intimidation. Government is no more than an organization made up of our employ. They should be reporting to us and be accountable to us... not the other way around. That we have let god emperors like Obama, and Bush before him, operate without accountability should not cause us to run and hide but rather should cause us to rise up and take back that which is rightfully ours, our freedom.