iceberg
Diamond Member
- May 15, 2017
- 36,788
- 14,920
i was sick to see it.coyote and i have gone into some nasty conversations on this. i've said the same thing about pandoras box because if you say "one side is justfied in their violence" what you are really saying is "violence is justified"It's absolutely possible, as the behavior is exactly the same. The difference is, you only denounce some of the violence, I denounce it all. I challenge you to increase your morality, and don't allow your hatred to prevent empathy for victims that you oppose. Feel compassion for all victims, and oppose all monsters.And now that one officer has died of his injuries at the hands of this mob, and others remain hospitalized, it's impossible NOT to make comparisons between the event and the way the BLM protestors were handled this summer. I just don't know what to even think right now, it seems so impossible.
Trump's behavior is criminal. There is just no excuse. And he is, predictably, still lying. Lying about sending help (he did nothing, help was 3 hours late, and it was Pence who did it all)...after telling his mob he "loves them" and how they are "patriots" he is now throwing them under the bus. What are the American people supposed to make of this?
If raising the temperature is criminal, then warm the handcuffs up for Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Joe Biden, etc... who all fired up their base by saying Trump "stole" the 2016 election and is an "illegitimate" president, who terrorized the black population to believe they were being massively exterminated when data proves that is monumentally incorrect, who all called the police are racist which led to officers being hunted and killed, who called the Republicans "murderers" which led to a GOP softball game being shot up.
You are opening a pandora's box. And I'd guess you're doing it because it's politically expedient at this very moment. But, when this loose standard is applied to others, you'll realize how stupid it is.
you can't pick and choose which side can use which tactics. not in a free and open society where we're all supposed to be bound to the same laws. when you give one side rights you don't allow the other, you become judging who's morality is correct.
and that never ends well.
if you want to have room to move, you must give it. we've lost sight of that and here we are today in a "if i don't get what i want you are a nazi" 3 year old mentality.
I hear you on this Iceberg, but sometimes equivalencies have to stop, because they just aren't equivalent, and this is one time that is so.
This mob does not represent all Trump supporters or even most (just like Antifa does not represent all leftists or even most) but it does represent a significant dangerous fringe that crossed a line. None of the unrest over the past decade compares.
It was an attempt to over throw our electoral process and frankly, our entire form of government and the foundations upon which it was based.
There are a few events in my life, that left me feeling surreal and sick to my stomach. The bombing of the Edward R Murrow building in OKC, the midair explosion of Challenger, 9/11...and now January 6, 2021. I will never forget this.
It's not partisan, it shouldn't be - Republicans and Democrats, left and right were horrified. It's an attack on all Americans. And honestly, I was crying.
i was sick to see the police move the fence LET them in
i was sick to see the police OPEN THE DOOR FOR THEM to come into the building.
i was sick to see them take selfies in the process with those "storming" the castle.
the fact remains you're constantly able to push these details aside in this and other situations to see what you *need/want* to see.
"it's an attack on all americans" - yet you ignore those who say the riots are the same. to me and many in my mindset, they are in fact the same. you allow violence as a means to an end or you do not and reject ANYONE DOING IT FOR ANY REASON.
to say "this reason is good / that reason bad" - honestly this is how i interpret what you are saying. and like i said, this goes into judging morality and saying YOUR reasons for violence are justified but the other side, no. in my mind that is why we have all the violence and disparity today.
one side wants rights they don't want the other to have.
so many people have accused me of defending trump when in fact, i'm defending our baseline rights. those do not include "oh you REALLY hater someone? we can treat them differently" that seems to be alive and well today. i guess you could say i advocate an even "platform" we all enjoy the rights of and i will protect that and how you use your rights isn't any of my business.
it only becomes my business, in my mind, when i see one group try to say THEY have a right and the other does not because of XYZ.
the "because of XYZ" is what gets us into this shit. you want to protect reasons to remove rights from people is how it comes across to me.
i want to protect our rights period - and i don't care what is done with them. i want the PLATFORM to be the same for us all.
that is why i hate social media today. they don't feel they should do that. if they don't like what you say SILENCE. where is that right in the constitution?
so yes, at times i get nailed for "defending trump" because it gets in the way of the mindless drone attacks on him because people hate him.
fine. hate him. that isn't illegal as far as i know. but to hold him to another set of standards? i'd call bullshit on anyone doing that.
if you can riot and tear shit up, you can riot and tear shit up. if you can't, you can't.
i will agree it was a sad day. however as usual, we have different reasons for our sadness. nothing wrong with that on its own. just becomes an issue when we expect people to feel as we do and if not, there's an action to be taken.
and that action can be many forms. even violence. but if one side starts it, the other side will invariably dive in.
then you get the "but we had good reason!" crap that tries to justify changing the platform "in this instance".
and it's never simply "in this instance".
whatever happens next, i hope we find our way back to the center soon.