Why the fight against Birth Control?

[Pumpkin Row]

You want to make them take responsibility but you don't want to make that choice any easier by providing free bc.

You think abortion is horrible but you don't want to reduce the rates by making birth control free.

You want them to suffer the consequences for their bad choices but those consequences may include children which you also don't want to support on the government dime.

It seems that it's not just about personal responsibility, it's about moral judgements and punishment.

Of course it's horrible, yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

Yet I have to pay for the education of other people's kids

Which I don't support, either. There should only be homeschooling and private schooling. Are you going to make a point somewhere?

I've made my point throughout the thread, if you bothered to read.

There are certain things that benefit our country that everyone pays for. Where most of us disagree is what those things are and what the government responsibility should be.

Ok so you don't think schooling should be publically funded. Have you really thought that out? One of the great strengths of our country is free schooling paid for through our taxes. It has given everyone, from every strata an opportunity that might otherwise not exist, to succeed. Without, it would be impossible for most to ever escape poverty. Look at those countries where everyone pays out of pocket and poor people struggle to fund even one child in the family. What is the literacy rate in those countries?

An educated populace benefits all. Whether it's in jobs, understanding issues, literacy, contributions to science, etc. Countries without it often have huge gaps between poor and rich, and not much middle class. They also have more social unrest. Home schooling is fine if your parents don't both have to work to feed their family and, if they themselves are competent to do the job. Private schools are very expensive, their quality is all over the board, and vouchers and tax credits only cover some of the costs. Public education might not always be the best, but at least it is there.

Things like education benefit society at large. In my view so does free birth control if it reduces teen pregnancies and abortion rates which have a high social cost. I'd rather pay for prevention and education than welfare later on because a teen dropped out of school.

It's easy to say they should all suffer the consequences and no one should help the "whore", but many are kids themselves a d if something like free birth control can help them make the RIGHT decisions, I see no reason to be punitive and moralistic about it.

You haven't, not one. You're basically demanding that when a person makes a mistake, everyone who pays taxes should be burdened with that mistake. That because a person chooses not to control themselves, everyone who pays taxes should pay for that bad habit. That's short-sighted and ignorant.

The 'government's responsibilities' have been expanded far beyond what they actually should be. Minute things like that, should not be listed among them, that's just laziness and carelessness. Things there's a demand for that can be provided by private industry shouldn't be covered by the government.

Yes, I thought that out, and that's why I haven't made the ignorant claim that our trashy school system isn't a strength of the country. Schooling would be significantly cheaper and more effective if it were handled by the private sector, which is why private and home schooled children consistently score higher on tests. There would be cheaper schools for poorer families, because there would be a demand among low income families, or they could homeschool their children.

That's not solving the problem, instead people should be taught abstinence. People who ignore those teachings, well, I guess they hosed themselves and have to deal with that mistake, it shouldn't be anyone else's problem.

Make the right decision? I don't see how free birth control helps them choose not to be a whore. You confuse yourself too easily.

 

[Rustic]

seriously, my whole adolescence was on the Indian reservation living in 100% socialist environment so did not have to pay any insurance. Then Went into the military for eight years to not have to pay for any insurance and after the military I made a conscious decision not to pay insurance. Easy to do With debt free living, I have not Owed a cent to anyone in twenty plus years....

So you voluntarily ran into a govt healthcare plan and for 8 years sucked off the american taxpayer.

Amazing.

Being an enlisted man for eight years in the army, far from good pay.
Another thing, I did not go to sick call even once, now days people are going to the hospital for the slightest sniffle just as Obamacare wants.
Obamacare is all about control… fact

You sought out and participated in the plan, that’s the point and you know it, after saying you’d never had any tpe of insurance ever, you said that was WHY you went looking for it there. AND you went looking for a govt plan. Sorry, I just don’t buy into your assertion that everyone goes in for a sniffle and I’m not sure how one even comes by that belief, sounds planted. And since you’ve never, if we are to believe you, had any employer co-provided plan, you’re totally unaware of the control involved in those plans and how they’ve become shitter, more expensive, and more controlling over time.

Sorry, there’s no sloganesque answer to this societal problem and no one is dealing with it in any substantive manner.

I went into the military to get away from a 100% socialist program that is the American Indian reservation... most people die before the age of 60 there.
I just don't buy into the view that collectivism works, it never has in the history of the planet. Fact

And the fact remains, it's always better if people pay for their own shit, that way you give the federal government No Avenue of control over the American citizen. Generally
The federal government is not the answer to what ails this country…

You call that program "Socialist" as if they chose that. Most die before 60 because of a socialist healthcare program? Jesus son, the only place in the western hemisphere with worse mortality rates is Haiti. How did you escape collectivism by moving into collectivist govt healthcare through the military? How's that different? Clearly it's collectivism aimed at supporting a group of people versus colonizing them and decimating the polulation.

I learned early where I did not want to be, I've been self-employed for over 20 years without any help from the federal government, in fact - in spite of the federal government. I did not use the healthcare system in the military, I certainly did not want to it's a pretty shitty system…
America is best if the government is not seen, nor heard… Fact

Collectivism has never worked for the good in the history of the planet…

 

[Pumpkin Row]

You want to make them take responsibility but you don't want to make that choice any easier by providing free bc.

You think abortion is horrible but you don't want to reduce the rates by making birth control free.

You want them to suffer the consequences for their bad choices but those consequences may include children which you also don't want to support on the government dime.

It seems that it's not just about personal responsibility, it's about moral judgements and punishment.

Of course it's horrible, and unconstitutional, which is why it should be illegal. Yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

If you think abortion is horrible, then why don't you want to take steps to reduce it? If free birth control and education help people make the right choices, it makes sense to do it.

Your attitude seems more about punishment that responsibility and doesn't seem like it would do anything about actually preventing the problem . You have labeled them all whores and cast them out of humanity.

Do you support sex education in schools?

I do want to. Hence saying it should be illegal. If Liberals actually upheld the constitution in the first place, abortion wouldn't be a thing.

Birth control doesn't help people make the right decision, it encourages being a whore. You're suggesting counterproductive steps to solve a problem, much like all Liberal policies.

Cast them out of humanity? Not so, most people are awful, I'm considering them a part of that. In the real world, one takes responsibility for their actions and deals with it, rather than relying on tax payers to cover for it. If people actually start realizing what such a mistake can do to their lives, they'll be less likely to make those mistakes... much like criminals being punished. Liberals are attempting to remove the consequences of these mistakes, thus encouraging said mistakes... much like banning the death penalty.

I don't know~

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Yet I have to pay for the education of other people's kids

Not the same. Education benefits everyone. Birth Control for pleasure sack benefits only the selfish.

I seriously doubt there is anyone in the US (apart from the homeless) who truly couldn't afford a packet of condoms if they just got their priorities in order.

Tilly I guess we're going to get in a fight and I love you as a poster And as a person..

Again I am old but not that old I still remember my old girl friend using a tooth brush to do her eye brows when I was 18 she was 16

I said fuck that and took her to Walgreens and bought her the real stuff.. And another funny thing she lived in park ridge Illinois.. A rich suburb of Chicago.. Where Harrison Ford and Hillary Clinton grew up.

.

I don't know exactly what she was doing to her eyebrows, but you can get contraceptives for 'free' without forcing others to pay for it - maybe not eyebrow brushes though

give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime..

Personal responsibility is key, IMHO.

Some people can disagree amicably. And we are two such people, dear Bear

I love that quote Tilly.. I guess you are going to fight me


I have a daughter.. And I still remember what it was to be 18 ..kids love sex.
No way around it...


Again Tilly what's better a little pill or them destroying their lives.. By abortion? I am not a girl but I have heard so many regrets by women who did that.

Someone could... oh... I don't know... teach them not to sleep around? If they don't follow those teachings, well, that's their own problem. I go to church with someone who made that mistake, and dumped their child off on their parents. I'd much rather them destroy their lives, and learn the lesson the hard way. Maybe they'll teach their child/children better than they were taught. The world is a cruel place, it's better someone realize that than thinking everything is sunshine and rainbows until they make an even worse mistake.

 

[Fenton Lum]

So you voluntarily ran into a govt healthcare plan and for 8 years sucked off the american taxpayer.

Amazing.

Being an enlisted man for eight years in the army, far from good pay.
Another thing, I did not go to sick call even once, now days people are going to the hospital for the slightest sniffle just as Obamacare wants.
Obamacare is all about control… fact

You sought out and participated in the plan, that’s the point and you know it, after saying you’d never had any tpe of insurance ever, you said that was WHY you went looking for it there. AND you went looking for a govt plan. Sorry, I just don’t buy into your assertion that everyone goes in for a sniffle and I’m not sure how one even comes by that belief, sounds planted. And since you’ve never, if we are to believe you, had any employer co-provided plan, you’re totally unaware of the control involved in those plans and how they’ve become shitter, more expensive, and more controlling over time.

Sorry, there’s no sloganesque answer to this societal problem and no one is dealing with it in any substantive manner.

I went into the military to get away from a 100% socialist program that is the American Indian reservation... most people die before the age of 60 there.
I just don't buy into the view that collectivism works, it never has in the history of the planet. Fact

And the fact remains, it's always better if people pay for their own shit, that way you give the federal government No Avenue of control over the American citizen. Generally
The federal government is not the answer to what ails this country…

You call that program "Socialist" as if they chose that. Most die before 60 because of a socialist healthcare program? Jesus son, the only place in the western hemisphere with worse mortality rates is Haiti. How did you escape collectivism by moving into collectivist govt healthcare through the military? How's that different? Clearly it's collectivism aimed at supporting a group of people versus colonizing them and decimating the polulation.

I learned early where I did not want to be, I've been self-employed for over 20 years without any help from the federal government, in fact - in spite of the federal government. I did not use the healthcare system in the military, I certainly did not want to it's a pretty shitty system…
America is best if the government is not seen, nor heard… Fact

Collectivism has never worked for the good in the history of the planet…

Oh I know what you're pushing pard, corporate state propaganda, from anonymous chat board ID's and stories that cannot be proven or verified. Of course this is all rubbish since you've always operated under and enjoyed a blended economy. There has always been plenty of collectivism in american society. It's merely demonized when it reaches out to include the unsubstantial people. Your prescription is do not get sick, do not age, or be wealthy enough to pay over the counter list price for care, nothing is wrong with the most expensive healthcare, and 3rd rate system on the planet. Quite a departure from the reality of the average citizen. Fuck society comes after fuck govt, they are connected.

Privatized gains versus socialized losses for the Wall Street Bankster Class
Internalized profit versus externalized risk and expense for the "job creator" class
Socialism for the aristocracy versus laissez-faire capitalism for the masses

That is the nature of what you're attempting to defend.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Not the same. Education benefits everyone. Birth Control for pleasure sack benefits only the selfish.

I seriously doubt there is anyone in the US (apart from the homeless) who truly couldn't afford a packet of condoms if they just got their priorities in order.

Tilly I guess we're going to get in a fight and I love you as a poster And as a person..

Again I am old but not that old I still remember my old girl friend using a tooth brush to do her eye brows when I was 18 she was 16

I said fuck that and took her to Walgreens and bought her the real stuff.. And another funny thing she lived in park ridge Illinois.. A rich suburb of Chicago.. Where Harrison Ford and Hillary Clinton grew up.

.

I don't know exactly what she was doing to her eyebrows, but you can get contraceptives for 'free' without forcing others to pay for it - maybe not eyebrow brushes though

give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime..

Personal responsibility is key, IMHO.

Some people can disagree amicably. And we are two such people, dear Bear

I love that quote Tilly.. I guess you are going to fight me


I have a daughter.. And I still remember what it was to be 18 ..kids love sex.
No way around it...


Again Tilly what's better a little pill or them destroying their lives.. By abortion? I am not a girl but I have heard so many regrets by women who did that.

Someone could... oh... I don't know... teach them not to sleep around? If they don't follow those teachings, well, that's their own problem. I go to church with someone who made that mistake, and dumped their child off on their parents. I'd much rather them destroy their lives, and learn the lesson the hard way. Maybe they'll teach their child/children better than they were taught. The world is a cruel place, it's better someone realize that than thinking everything is sunshine and rainbows until they make an even worse mistake.

Oh I think we all want those who don't follow us destroyed, don't we.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

I seriously doubt there is anyone in the US (apart from the homeless) who truly couldn't afford a packet of condoms if they just got their priorities in order.

Tilly I guess we're going to get in a fight and I love you as a poster And as a person..

Again I am old but not that old I still remember my old girl friend using a tooth brush to do her eye brows when I was 18 she was 16

I said fuck that and took her to Walgreens and bought her the real stuff.. And another funny thing she lived in park ridge Illinois.. A rich suburb of Chicago.. Where Harrison Ford and Hillary Clinton grew up.

.

I don't know exactly what she was doing to her eyebrows, but you can get contraceptives for 'free' without forcing others to pay for it - maybe not eyebrow brushes though

give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime..

Personal responsibility is key, IMHO.

Some people can disagree amicably. And we are two such people, dear Bear

I love that quote Tilly.. I guess you are going to fight me


I have a daughter.. And I still remember what it was to be 18 ..kids love sex.
No way around it...


Again Tilly what's better a little pill or them destroying their lives.. By abortion? I am not a girl but I have heard so many regrets by women who did that.

Someone could... oh... I don't know... teach them not to sleep around? If they don't follow those teachings, well, that's their own problem. I go to church with someone who made that mistake, and dumped their child off on their parents. I'd much rather them destroy their lives, and learn the lesson the hard way. Maybe they'll teach their child/children better than they were taught. The world is a cruel place, it's better someone realize that than thinking everything is sunshine and rainbows until they make an even worse mistake.

Oh I think we all want those who don't follow us destroyed, don't we.

Hey, it's their choice, and others shouldn't be burdened with it. Of course, I'd expect a Socialist to believe everything should cost everyone. Coyote is already arguing that literally everything should be 'free', I don't think she needs your help~

 

[Fenton Lum]

Tilly I guess we're going to get in a fight and I love you as a poster And as a person..

Again I am old but not that old I still remember my old girl friend using a tooth brush to do her eye brows when I was 18 she was 16

I said fuck that and took her to Walgreens and bought her the real stuff.. And another funny thing she lived in park ridge Illinois.. A rich suburb of Chicago.. Where Harrison Ford and Hillary Clinton grew up.

.

I don't know exactly what she was doing to her eyebrows, but you can get contraceptives for 'free' without forcing others to pay for it - maybe not eyebrow brushes though

give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime..

Personal responsibility is key, IMHO.

Some people can disagree amicably. And we are two such people, dear Bear

I love that quote Tilly.. I guess you are going to fight me


I have a daughter.. And I still remember what it was to be 18 ..kids love sex.
No way around it...


Again Tilly what's better a little pill or them destroying their lives.. By abortion? I am not a girl but I have heard so many regrets by women who did that.

Someone could... oh... I don't know... teach them not to sleep around? If they don't follow those teachings, well, that's their own problem. I go to church with someone who made that mistake, and dumped their child off on their parents. I'd much rather them destroy their lives, and learn the lesson the hard way. Maybe they'll teach their child/children better than they were taught. The world is a cruel place, it's better someone realize that than thinking everything is sunshine and rainbows until they make an even worse mistake.

Oh I think we all want those who don't follow us destroyed, don't we.

Hey, it's their choice, and others shouldn't be burdened with it. Of course, I'd expect a Socialist to believe everything should cost everyone. Coyote is already arguing that literally everything should be 'free', I don't think she needs your help~

Do you ever have an issue? Or just here to sling epithets?

 

[Pumpkin Row]

I don't know exactly what she was doing to her eyebrows, but you can get contraceptives for 'free' without forcing others to pay for it - maybe not eyebrow brushes though

give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime..

Personal responsibility is key, IMHO.

Some people can disagree amicably. And we are two such people, dear Bear

I love that quote Tilly.. I guess you are going to fight me


I have a daughter.. And I still remember what it was to be 18 ..kids love sex.
No way around it...


Again Tilly what's better a little pill or them destroying their lives.. By abortion? I am not a girl but I have heard so many regrets by women who did that.

Someone could... oh... I don't know... teach them not to sleep around? If they don't follow those teachings, well, that's their own problem. I go to church with someone who made that mistake, and dumped their child off on their parents. I'd much rather them destroy their lives, and learn the lesson the hard way. Maybe they'll teach their child/children better than they were taught. The world is a cruel place, it's better someone realize that than thinking everything is sunshine and rainbows until they make an even worse mistake.

Oh I think we all want those who don't follow us destroyed, don't we.

Hey, it's their choice, and others shouldn't be burdened with it. Of course, I'd expect a Socialist to believe everything should cost everyone. Coyote is already arguing that literally everything should be 'free', I don't think she needs your help~

Do you ever have an issue? Or just here to sling epithets?

It depends on how seriously I take the poster. Admitting to being a Socialist drops you to the VERY bottom of my list of posters to take seriously.

 

[Fenton Lum]

seriously, my whole adolescence was on the Indian reservation living in 100% socialist environment so did not have to pay any insurance. Then Went into the military for eight years to not have to pay for any insurance and after the military I made a conscious decision not to pay insurance. Easy to do With debt free living, I have not Owed a cent to anyone in twenty plus years....

So you voluntarily ran into a govt healthcare plan and for 8 years sucked off the american taxpayer.

Amazing.

Being an enlisted man for eight years in the army, far from good pay.
Another thing, I did not go to sick call even once, now days people are going to the hospital for the slightest sniffle just as Obamacare wants.
Obamacare is all about control… fact

You sought out and participated in the plan, that’s the point and you know it, after saying you’d never had any tpe of insurance ever, you said that was WHY you went looking for it there. AND you went looking for a govt plan. Sorry, I just don’t buy into your assertion that everyone goes in for a sniffle and I’m not sure how one even comes by that belief, sounds planted. And since you’ve never, if we are to believe you, had any employer co-provided plan, you’re totally unaware of the control involved in those plans and how they’ve become shitter, more expensive, and more controlling over time.

Sorry, there’s no sloganesque answer to this societal problem and no one is dealing with it in any substantive manner.

I went into the military to get away from a 100% socialist program that is the American Indian reservation... most people die before the age of 60 there.
I just don't buy into the view that collectivism works, it never has in the history of the planet. Fact

And the fact remains, it's always better if people pay for their own shit, that way you give the federal government No Avenue of control over the American citizen. Generally
The federal government is not the answer to what ails this country…

Was a simple question, do you support birth control being available to all. YES. lets cut the teen pregnant rate, and abortions

Birth control is available to all. The OP title suggests people are 'fighting against birth control'. They aren't. Some people are saying they don't see why they should pay for other people's birth control, and that adults should be more responsible for themselves.

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

Who, exactly, is fighting against birth control?

It was Hobby Lobby that took it all the way to the Supreme Court about 4 years ago while the Reich wing cheered them on. Religious exemption--over a Prescription drug that is mandated to be paid for by insurers. Yet they rail against abortion at the same time. It's so hypocritical it's funny. Of course they had no problems paying for Viagra or other male enhancement drugs.

The mandate is illegal as well....

Should have never allowed the lobbyists and insurance corps in on "tweeking" it to the benefit of the usual suspects preying upon society.

I see your comprehension is more lacking than usual today. Drinking yourself to drink every night since the election, I imagine.

There ya go, better steer off in another direction.

 

[Fenton Lum]

I love that quote Tilly.. I guess you are going to fight me


I have a daughter.. And I still remember what it was to be 18 ..kids love sex.
No way around it...


Again Tilly what's better a little pill or them destroying their lives.. By abortion? I am not a girl but I have heard so many regrets by women who did that.

Someone could... oh... I don't know... teach them not to sleep around? If they don't follow those teachings, well, that's their own problem. I go to church with someone who made that mistake, and dumped their child off on their parents. I'd much rather them destroy their lives, and learn the lesson the hard way. Maybe they'll teach their child/children better than they were taught. The world is a cruel place, it's better someone realize that than thinking everything is sunshine and rainbows until they make an even worse mistake.

Oh I think we all want those who don't follow us destroyed, don't we.

Hey, it's their choice, and others shouldn't be burdened with it. Of course, I'd expect a Socialist to believe everything should cost everyone. Coyote is already arguing that literally everything should be 'free', I don't think she needs your help~

Do you ever have an issue? Or just here to sling epithets?

It depends on how seriously I take the poster. Admitting to being a Socialist drops you to the VERY bottom of my list of posters to take seriously.

Like I said.

 

[Grizz]

Why do all Lefty's demand free shit?

Some things should be free.. I know you're going to call me a Lefty..

Public schooling should be free.. Birth control should be free.. Higher education should be free..

I agree with the Lefty's on that I am old but not that old.

And I don't mind paying in taxes for that because it's the right thing to do.

.

(sigh) NOTHING is free, it's just cost shifted.
I especially find the Birth Control demand to be hypocritical, you kids DO realize that ED drugs are not aid for by insurance?

 

[Grizz]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

Who, exactly, is fighting against birth control?

Mostly, it's offering it through the ACA that I mean.

Well, because the ACA is mandatory, and the Catholic Church does not believe in birth control, they don't believe they should be forced to offer it in their insurance programs to employees. So say the Little Sisters of the Poor.

That's why I left the Catholic Church..

But I will be damn if I stop asking for mother Mary for help..

I don't know what it is about her.. Every time I think about her she sends chills through my body..

Its like when every time I am abandon
I think of her and call her.. And she always never lets me down.

Mary has helped me out, too. I don't think she cares if you go to church.
I doubt she rejoices to see unwanted or addicted babies born into this world, or babies born into a family with no way to feed it.

Ummmm, you do know that according to the Bible Mary is nothing more than he mother of Jesus?
That she has no "divine" power at all?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

seriously, my whole adolescence was on the Indian reservation living in 100% socialist environment so did not have to pay any insurance. Then Went into the military for eight years to not have to pay for any insurance and after the military I made a conscious decision not to pay insurance. Easy to do With debt free living, I have not Owed a cent to anyone in twenty plus years....

So you voluntarily ran into a govt healthcare plan and for 8 years sucked off the american taxpayer.

Amazing.

Being an enlisted man for eight years in the army, far from good pay.
Another thing, I did not go to sick call even once, now days people are going to the hospital for the slightest sniffle just as Obamacare wants.
Obamacare is all about control… fact

You sought out and participated in the plan, that’s the point and you know it, after saying you’d never had any tpe of insurance ever, you said that was WHY you went looking for it there. AND you went looking for a govt plan. Sorry, I just don’t buy into your assertion that everyone goes in for a sniffle and I’m not sure how one even comes by that belief, sounds planted. And since you’ve never, if we are to believe you, had any employer co-provided plan, you’re totally unaware of the control involved in those plans and how they’ve become shitter, more expensive, and more controlling over time.

Sorry, there’s no sloganesque answer to this societal problem and no one is dealing with it in any substantive manner.

I went into the military to get away from a 100% socialist program that is the American Indian reservation... most people die before the age of 60 there.
I just don't buy into the view that collectivism works, it never has in the history of the planet. Fact

And the fact remains, it's always better if people pay for their own shit, that way you give the federal government No Avenue of control over the American citizen. Generally
The federal government is not the answer to what ails this country…

You call that program "Socialist" as if they chose that. Most die before 60 because of a socialist healthcare program? Jesus son, the only place in the western hemisphere with worse mortality rates is Haiti. How did you escape collectivism by moving into collectivist govt healthcare through the military? How's that different? Clearly it's collectivism aimed at supporting a group of people versus colonizing them and decimating the polulation.

And you keep attacking those that serve, go figure.

 

[boedicca]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

To agree with this, one would first have to support the ACA funding all that it does in a giant redistribution scheme from middle class workers to the lower income/welfare classes.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The problem is it is a lifestyle issue, not a healthcare issue. Are you going to provide free helmets for motorcyclists?

I disagree, it's not a lifestyle issue. For example birth control is used by married people. Reproduction and sex are pretty hardwired in our species. In terms of cost/benefit - it makes sense to provide free birth control and it certainly seems to correlate with lower rates of teen pregnancies and abortion.

Who BC is used by is irrelevant. The point is who pays for it. That should be the consumer. After all society didn't pay for your marriage either.

If you have any health insurance at all you are constantly paying for other people's shit just as they do yours. That is in fact the point, shared cost across the group.

No, the POINT is that BECAUSE it's shared coverage, you don't get to simply demand that those others give you what you want and sit down and shut up if they don't agree with you.

That's exactly the power we turn over to corporate power, we just have a different reaction when it's more closely linked to a "govt" plan. You have no say over any of that in an employer based plan.

Yes, actually, I do.

If I do not like the plan/s offered by my employer, I have the option of purchasing insurance privately. I also have the option of finding an employer who offers benefits more to my liking. But where do I go to get away from the federal government? More to the point, where does my employer go to get away from a federal government mandating that they will participate in things they don't want to?

Any and all compensation arrangements between an employer and employee are private and voluntary (or should be). The government, on the other hand, is a monolith everyone is stuck with which pays increasingly less and less attention to what individuals want. So yes, we react very differently to the government than to businesses, because government and business are two very different entities.

 

[Fenton Lum]

So you voluntarily ran into a govt healthcare plan and for 8 years sucked off the american taxpayer.

Amazing.

Being an enlisted man for eight years in the army, far from good pay.
Another thing, I did not go to sick call even once, now days people are going to the hospital for the slightest sniffle just as Obamacare wants.
Obamacare is all about control… fact

You sought out and participated in the plan, that’s the point and you know it, after saying you’d never had any tpe of insurance ever, you said that was WHY you went looking for it there. AND you went looking for a govt plan. Sorry, I just don’t buy into your assertion that everyone goes in for a sniffle and I’m not sure how one even comes by that belief, sounds planted. And since you’ve never, if we are to believe you, had any employer co-provided plan, you’re totally unaware of the control involved in those plans and how they’ve become shitter, more expensive, and more controlling over time.

Sorry, there’s no sloganesque answer to this societal problem and no one is dealing with it in any substantive manner.

I went into the military to get away from a 100% socialist program that is the American Indian reservation... most people die before the age of 60 there.
I just don't buy into the view that collectivism works, it never has in the history of the planet. Fact

And the fact remains, it's always better if people pay for their own shit, that way you give the federal government No Avenue of control over the American citizen. Generally
The federal government is not the answer to what ails this country…

You call that program "Socialist" as if they chose that. Most die before 60 because of a socialist healthcare program? Jesus son, the only place in the western hemisphere with worse mortality rates is Haiti. How did you escape collectivism by moving into collectivist govt healthcare through the military? How's that different? Clearly it's collectivism aimed at supporting a group of people versus colonizing them and decimating the polulation.

And you keep attacking those that serve, go figure.

Never have, but of course that's irrelevant to you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

Anybody that needs birth control 24 seven probably has a mental problem, and expecting anyone else to pay so someone else doesn't have a potential fuck up - pardon the pun - that is absolutely Frivolous to say the least...
see that's where the problem is, sure there's people that want the nanny state. Why the fuck do they expect for everyone else to pay for their stupidity?

We are not in this altogether, this country is best when it pursues the freedom of the individual and the individual is responsible for themselves. Collectivism has never worked in the history of the planet…

If you've ever had healthcare insurance you've done this without so much as a peep.

Wrong. I've peeped about many problems I've had with employer healthcare coverage (although not regarding birth control, because I don't have a problem with birth control). I have even left employers to find a new job because I had problems with their coverage.

You speak as though the concept of being informed and involved and actually communicating with one's employers is totally alien to you.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Being an enlisted man for eight years in the army, far from good pay.
Another thing, I did not go to sick call even once, now days people are going to the hospital for the slightest sniffle just as Obamacare wants.
Obamacare is all about control… fact

You sought out and participated in the plan, that’s the point and you know it, after saying you’d never had any tpe of insurance ever, you said that was WHY you went looking for it there. AND you went looking for a govt plan. Sorry, I just don’t buy into your assertion that everyone goes in for a sniffle and I’m not sure how one even comes by that belief, sounds planted. And since you’ve never, if we are to believe you, had any employer co-provided plan, you’re totally unaware of the control involved in those plans and how they’ve become shitter, more expensive, and more controlling over time.

Sorry, there’s no sloganesque answer to this societal problem and no one is dealing with it in any substantive manner.

I went into the military to get away from a 100% socialist program that is the American Indian reservation... most people die before the age of 60 there.
I just don't buy into the view that collectivism works, it never has in the history of the planet. Fact

And the fact remains, it's always better if people pay for their own shit, that way you give the federal government No Avenue of control over the American citizen. Generally
The federal government is not the answer to what ails this country…

You call that program "Socialist" as if they chose that. Most die before 60 because of a socialist healthcare program? Jesus son, the only place in the western hemisphere with worse mortality rates is Haiti. How did you escape collectivism by moving into collectivist govt healthcare through the military? How's that different? Clearly it's collectivism aimed at supporting a group of people versus colonizing them and decimating the polulation.

And you keep attacking those that serve, go figure.

Never have, but of course that's irrelevant to you.

You keep attacking his choice to join the military and accuse him of socialized medicine and sucking off the taxpayers for being in the military, THAT is an attack on the WHOLE military you retard.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

Anybody that needs birth control 24 seven probably has a mental problem, and expecting anyone else to pay so someone else doesn't have a potential fuck up - pardon the pun - that is absolutely Frivolous to say the least...
see that's where the problem is, sure there's people that want the nanny state. Why the fuck do they expect for everyone else to pay for their stupidity?

We are not in this altogether, this country is best when it pursues the freedom of the individual and the individual is responsible for themselves. Collectivism has never worked in the history of the planet…

If you've ever had healthcare insurance you've done this without so much as a peep.

I have never bought insurance in my life, because I don't need it neither does my family. Any type of mandatory insurance is legalized extortion... fact

I agree Rustic. Before Obama care the individual had a choice in the matter. So if they opted in, and that program included BC, so be it. If you didn't like it, you could drop the plan. I myself always opted to pay out of pocket, and in the long run saved a lot of money. But now with healthcare programs being mandatory I get a lot more opinionated when parasitic lefties, want to add frivolous expenses to us all. Especially in this case where there are countless free alternatives.

You guys are really on to something, I think most americans would rather be out there with no healthcare coverage, paying out of their own pockets on their own.

I'm hoping that's what Trump and the Republican party have in mind for the american people.

Yes, those are the only choices: have absolutely no insurance coverage, or submit to the federal government micromanaging your healthcare. There is no in-between.

Grow up, please.