Why the fight against Birth Control?

[Pumpkin Row]

The problem you are ignoring is that the consequences of said actions are far more wide reaching than people dealing with their own consequences.
Society changes because of the people in society. You have kids brought up by parents who don't have a clue, or don't care, and they're more likely to be criminals, more likely to disrupt at school. This is the reality of the situation.

You say they can choose not to take the risk and not have sex. I'm sorry, but this is extremely naive. You claim to be 15 years old, so I can understand that you don't get it yet.

The impulse for sex is testosterone. It's a drug within the body. Some people have to have sex in order to deal with the amount of testosterone in their body.

It has been found that porn has a POSITIVE effect on the rape rates and sex crimes.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/28803/title/Porn--Good-for-us-/

"
Scientific examination of the subject has found that as the use of porn increases, the rate of sex crimes goes down."

Why? Because men (mostly) need to get rid of this testosterone in their body.

If the need is there, then they will have to do something about it. For some it's about having sex. You seem to think sex is like a donut, that you can make the decision to stop eating donuts and it's that easy.

Actually it's more like trying to quit smoking. The drugs take over. The problem with sex is that the drug continues to be produced.

But you're talking about "I don't care, as long as I don't have to pay", again, this doesn't work. You WILL PAY no matter what. Now you can choose to pay for things like sex education, free birth control and the like, or you can choose to pay for more judges, more lawyers, more prison time. Do you know how much it costs to keep one person in prison for a year? Do you know how much free birth control for a year costs? Let's just say that the latter is far cheaper.

You can't pretend that this can just go away by people being responsible. One thing humans are good at is being irresponsible. You either deal with it before it becomes a problem, or you clean up the problem and spend 100 times more doing so.

You just made an argument against your own. First, that people can masturbate instead of having sex. Second, that more inmates should receive the death penalty. Thank you.

You call this debate?

I'm not here to make arguments to "win" some kind of fucking prize, alright? I'm here to say the truth. I'm not going to make stuff up, twist the statistics, or any of that usual crap that happens on sites like this all the time.

So, either you want to debate with me, or you want to play silly little games. If it's the latter then I'm not going to bother with you, okay?

Yes, men can wank off. But not all of them do.

There is porn, but there's also sexual crime. Porn can help REDUCE sexual crime, but it doesn't eliminate it.

I

Nothing eliminates any form of crime entirely. If anything, free birth control would actually increase crime rates... like pedophilia. You're not going to be able to justify theft.

Are you making this argument? Or are you just throwing out sentences based on what you want to exist?

Either way it's pointless, because you haven't make an argument at all. You're dealing with something complex and you've written 3 short sentences.

I don't really have to make an argument. You Socialists are advocating theft because you want people to be able to escape the consequences of their actions, I'm telling you it's counterproductive. Really, I don't expect any of you to remove your heads from your rectum, I'm only arguing in this thread because I'm bored and tired.

If it were possible, none of you would be Liberals.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

The problem you are ignoring is that the consequences of said actions are far more wide reaching than people dealing with their own consequences.
Society changes because of the people in society. You have kids brought up by parents who don't have a clue, or don't care, and they're more likely to be criminals, more likely to disrupt at school. This is the reality of the situation.

You say they can choose not to take the risk and not have sex. I'm sorry, but this is extremely naive. You claim to be 15 years old, so I can understand that you don't get it yet.

The impulse for sex is testosterone. It's a drug within the body. Some people have to have sex in order to deal with the amount of testosterone in their body.

It has been found that porn has a POSITIVE effect on the rape rates and sex crimes.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/28803/title/Porn--Good-for-us-/

"
Scientific examination of the subject has found that as the use of porn increases, the rate of sex crimes goes down."

Why? Because men (mostly) need to get rid of this testosterone in their body.

If the need is there, then they will have to do something about it. For some it's about having sex. You seem to think sex is like a donut, that you can make the decision to stop eating donuts and it's that easy.

Actually it's more like trying to quit smoking. The drugs take over. The problem with sex is that the drug continues to be produced.

But you're talking about "I don't care, as long as I don't have to pay", again, this doesn't work. You WILL PAY no matter what. Now you can choose to pay for things like sex education, free birth control and the like, or you can choose to pay for more judges, more lawyers, more prison time. Do you know how much it costs to keep one person in prison for a year? Do you know how much free birth control for a year costs? Let's just say that the latter is far cheaper.

You can't pretend that this can just go away by people being responsible. One thing humans are good at is being irresponsible. You either deal with it before it becomes a problem, or you clean up the problem and spend 100 times more doing so.

You just made an argument against your own. First, that people can masturbate instead of having sex. Second, that more inmates should receive the death penalty. Thank you.

You call this debate?

I'm not here to make arguments to "win" some kind of fucking prize, alright? I'm here to say the truth. I'm not going to make stuff up, twist the statistics, or any of that usual crap that happens on sites like this all the time.

So, either you want to debate with me, or you want to play silly little games. If it's the latter then I'm not going to bother with you, okay?

Yes, men can wank off. But not all of them do.

There is porn, but there's also sexual crime. Porn can help REDUCE sexual crime, but it doesn't eliminate it.

I

Nothing eliminates any form of crime entirely. If anything, free birth control would actually increase crime rates... like pedophilia. You're not going to be able to justify theft.

Do you have any data to support that?

About as much as you've provided.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The problem you are ignoring is that the consequences of said actions are far more wide reaching than people dealing with their own consequences.
Society changes because of the people in society. You have kids brought up by parents who don't have a clue, or don't care, and they're more likely to be criminals, more likely to disrupt at school. This is the reality of the situation.

You say they can choose not to take the risk and not have sex. I'm sorry, but this is extremely naive. You claim to be 15 years old, so I can understand that you don't get it yet.

The impulse for sex is testosterone. It's a drug within the body. Some people have to have sex in order to deal with the amount of testosterone in their body.

It has been found that porn has a POSITIVE effect on the rape rates and sex crimes.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/28803/title/Porn--Good-for-us-/

"
Scientific examination of the subject has found that as the use of porn increases, the rate of sex crimes goes down."

Why? Because men (mostly) need to get rid of this testosterone in their body.

If the need is there, then they will have to do something about it. For some it's about having sex. You seem to think sex is like a donut, that you can make the decision to stop eating donuts and it's that easy.

Actually it's more like trying to quit smoking. The drugs take over. The problem with sex is that the drug continues to be produced.

But you're talking about "I don't care, as long as I don't have to pay", again, this doesn't work. You WILL PAY no matter what. Now you can choose to pay for things like sex education, free birth control and the like, or you can choose to pay for more judges, more lawyers, more prison time. Do you know how much it costs to keep one person in prison for a year? Do you know how much free birth control for a year costs? Let's just say that the latter is far cheaper.

You can't pretend that this can just go away by people being responsible. One thing humans are good at is being irresponsible. You either deal with it before it becomes a problem, or you clean up the problem and spend 100 times more doing so.

You just made an argument against your own. First, that people can masturbate instead of having sex. Second, that more inmates should receive the death penalty. Thank you.

You call this debate?

I'm not here to make arguments to "win" some kind of fucking prize, alright? I'm here to say the truth. I'm not going to make stuff up, twist the statistics, or any of that usual crap that happens on sites like this all the time.

So, either you want to debate with me, or you want to play silly little games. If it's the latter then I'm not going to bother with you, okay?

Yes, men can wank off. But not all of them do.

There is porn, but there's also sexual crime. Porn can help REDUCE sexual crime, but it doesn't eliminate it.

I

Nothing eliminates any form of crime entirely. If anything, free birth control would actually increase crime rates... like pedophilia. You're not going to be able to justify theft.

Are you making this argument? Or are you just throwing out sentences based on what you want to exist?

Either way it's pointless, because you haven't make an argument at all. You're dealing with something complex and you've written 3 short sentences.

I don't really have to make an argument. You Socialists are advocating theft because you want people to be able to escape the consequences of their actions, I'm telling you it's counterproductive. Really, I don't expect any of you to remove your heads from your rectum, I'm only arguing in this thread because I'm bored and tired.

If it were possible, none of you would be Liberals.

No, you clearly don't have to make an argument. But you'd have to wonder what the hell the point of being on a political forum is, if you can't make an argument. Trump didn't have an argument, he merely danced around like a clown, and you're doing the same.

You shout your mouth off about Liberals being this or that, yet you don't have a solid base from which to actually understand things, and you don't even try to understand things. It makes no sense to me.

If your refrigerator breaks, you don't start insulting people in the hope that the fridge will suddenly start working.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

No, you clearly don't have to make an argument. But you'd have to wonder what the hell the point of being on a political forum is, if you can't make an argument. Trump didn't have an argument, he merely danced around like a clown, and you're doing the same.

I see you're unable to:
1: Read the rest of the thread, I've only been repeating myself, but you Liberals apparently have literacy issues.
2: Tell the different between "Can't" and "Don't have to".
3: Realize that he still beat your piece of crud candidate. Good job selecting someone worse than Trump.

You shout your mouth off about Liberals being this or that, yet you don't have a solid base from which to actually understand things, and you don't even try to understand things. It makes no sense to me.

Maybe I wouldn't shout my mouth off if you guys actually fixed things instead of creating problems and then continually making them worse while expanding government in the process~

I'm sure few things make sense to you.

If your refrigerator breaks, you don't start insulting people in the hope that the fridge will suddenly start working.

Significantly better than trying to convince people that the government should make taxpayers pay to have my fridge fixed.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, you clearly don't have to make an argument. But you'd have to wonder what the hell the point of being on a political forum is, if you can't make an argument. Trump didn't have an argument, he merely danced around like a clown, and you're doing the same.

I see you're unable to:
1: Read the rest of the thread, I've only been repeating myself, but you Liberals apparently have literacy issues.
2: Tell the different between "Can't" and "Don't have to".
3: Realize that he still beat your piece of crud candidate. Good job selecting someone worse than Trump.

You shout your mouth off about Liberals being this or that, yet you don't have a solid base from which to actually understand things, and you don't even try to understand things. It makes no sense to me.

Maybe I wouldn't shout my mouth off if you guys actually fixed things instead of creating problems and then continually making them worse while expanding government in the process~

I'm sure few things make sense to you.

If your refrigerator breaks, you don't start insulting people in the hope that the fridge will suddenly start working.

Significantly better than trying to convince people that the government should make taxpayers pay to have my fridge fixed.

I give up. Have a nice life, I can't be bothered with this nonsense.

 

[Dragonlady]

I don't really have to make an argument. You Socialists are advocating theft because you want people to be able to escape the consequences of their actions, I'm telling you it's counterproductive. Really, I don't expect any of you to remove your heads from your rectum, I'm only arguing in this thread because I'm bored and tired.

If it were possible, none of you would be Liberals.

Bullshit. Taxation is NOT theft. Your taxes are your contribution to a civilized society in a First World Country. You could move to a country with no taxes, but I guarantee you wouldn't like it. No infrastructure, no police (unless you bribe them), no commerce, and no personal safety. Basically, they're Third World hell-holes.

There is a book I would suggest you read called "The Smug Majority" written by Pierre Berton. I read it when I was about your age. It was the first book on politics I ever read.

You think you know how the world works. You haven't a clue. Your posts here prove it.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Kids have sex, rich ones poor ones.. I can't walk around the United States and talk to children and ask them are they having sex? And give them $5 bucks and tell them to go buy birth control..

I would be locked up..

Pumpkin some things I don't mind my taxes going for..

And why is birth control immoral?

Abortion to me is murder.. But condoms,kids being educated on sex, birth control?

That's not immoral.. That's doing the right thing.

If someone asks you for money, go for it. Pay them to go sleep with people. Not my problem. You have a right to do what you want with your money. On the other hand, you don't have a right to use other people's money to force them to buy things against their will.

Birth control isn't. Stealing money from people to give it to others is. Pre-marrital sex is, as is encouraging people to do it.

I have to go with bear on this being pragmatic.
I would much rather stop unwanted pregnancies than to see women getting abortions. Which I find abhorrent.

Abortions shouldn't be legal in the first place, and the government has no business stealing taxpayer money to buy things for other people who are fully capable of buying it themselves or keeping their legs closed. Sex isn't a necessity.

While I agree,you cant stop people from having sex.
I know throughout my youth I thought with the wrong head consequences be damned.

I'm not advocating stopping them, I'm telling you they can deal with the consequences. I, personally, don't care. Not my problem, and it shouldn't be made other people's problem.

I feel the same way but unfortunately we end up paying one way or another and BC is far cheaper than a kid.

 

[Wyatt earp]

If someone asks you for money, go for it. Pay them to go sleep with people. Not my problem. You have a right to do what you want with your money. On the other hand, you don't have a right to use other people's money to force them to buy things against their will.

Birth control isn't. Stealing money from people to give it to others is. Pre-marrital sex is, as is encouraging people to do it.

I have to go with bear on this being pragmatic.
I would much rather stop unwanted pregnancies than to see women getting abortions. Which I find abhorrent.

Abortions shouldn't be legal in the first place, and the government has no business stealing taxpayer money to buy things for other people who are fully capable of buying it themselves or keeping their legs closed. Sex isn't a necessity.

While I agree,you cant stop people from having sex.
I know throughout my youth I thought with the wrong head consequences be damned.

I'm not advocating stopping them, I'm telling you they can deal with the consequences. I, personally, don't care. Not my problem, and it shouldn't be made other people's problem.

I feel the same way but unfortunately we end up paying one way or another and BC is far cheaper than a kid.

God I feel like such a liberal in this thread..

I said a few times.. I may be old but not that old to remember how I used to be as teen. It was a hell of a time..


This is the only way I can explain it it pumpkin

 

[Vastator]

I don't really have to make an argument. You Socialists are advocating theft because you want people to be able to escape the consequences of their actions, I'm telling you it's counterproductive. Really, I don't expect any of you to remove your heads from your rectum, I'm only arguing in this thread because I'm bored and tired.

If it were possible, none of you would be Liberals.

Bullshit. Taxation is NOT theft. Your taxes are your contribution to a civilized society in a First World Country. You could move to a country with no taxes, but I guarantee you wouldn't like it. No infrastructure, no police (unless you bribe them), no commerce, and no personal safety. Basically, they're Third World hell-holes.

There is a book I would suggest you read called "The Smug Majority" written by Pierre Berton. I read it when I was about your age. It was the first book on politics I ever read.

You think you know how the world works. You haven't a clue. Your posts here prove it.

First of all the title is "The Smug Minority". Secondly, the book is a bunch of pie in the sky liberal/socialistic horseshit, fantasizing about a culture where people don't have to work and the Nanny state provides all, freeing the people from the constraints of labor, in exchange for a life of leisure. Its total and utter horseshit. It also explains your fucked up fantasy about how the state should care for all. Fuck that!

 

[Vastator]

I don't really have to make an argument. You Socialists are advocating theft because you want people to be able to escape the consequences of their actions, I'm telling you it's counterproductive. Really, I don't expect any of you to remove your heads from your rectum, I'm only arguing in this thread because I'm bored and tired.

If it were possible, none of you would be Liberals.

Bullshit. Taxation is NOT theft. Your taxes are your contribution to a civilized society in a First World Country. You could move to a country with no taxes, but I guarantee you wouldn't like it. No infrastructure, no police (unless you bribe them), no commerce, and no personal safety. Basically, they're Third World hell-holes.

There is a book I would suggest you read called "The Smug Majority" written by Pierre Berton. I read it when I was about your age. It was the first book on politics I ever read.

You think you know how the world works. You haven't a clue. Your posts here prove it.

First there is no taxation free country. Secondly taxation at the local level is for devices rendered at the local level. Which is as it should be. If you don't like it you can move to a new location where the system operates more to your liking. The ACA strips us of that. So now I'd be paying for some California whores BC. That's not how taxation is supposed to work. It appears pumpkin row has a better grasp on how the system was designed to work than you do. What's clear is that, it is you who doesn't have a clue.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Where's my free Playboy subscription?

Quit posting like a dumb ass.. You're making us like " here we go again" and me look like sex starved morons.

And you stupid fuck, your younger than me mastabator king.


Fucking freak stop it Asshat.

Try English.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

It's even simpler than that. It's much cheaper for insurers to prevent unintended pregnancy rather than pay for prenatal care, labor and delivery, and a whole new costly person on the plan.

 

[jillian]

But it paid for your kid's education.

Are you comparing the value of education to recreational sex?

It can be argued that all children result from recreational sex. Why should I have to pay for that result by paying to educate your kids when I don't have kids?

The reason is an uneducated population is detrimental to our society, so it's in all our interests to pay for it. Likewise, unwanted pregnancies (whether or not you agree with how they came about) are also detrimental to our society and cost far more then the cost of preventing them.

as a societal goal it benefits us to have an educated population. we have long ago moved away from the "only the aristocracy is educated" BS that the right is trying, for some reason I can't imagine, to bring back.

reality.... unwanted pregnancies are bad for society. So I agree. It has also been shown that crime rates go down when abortion is legal since those least capable of managing a family at a given point in time will not be forced to become incubators.

period.

Dr Grump Are you trying to say that people should only have reproductive choice if they're wealthy?

 

[Tilly]

Providing free BC pills leads to an acute reduction in the use of condoms among young people - no doubt about it - (google for yourselves).

STDs are on the rise among young people in the US , they now account for 50% of new STDs annually.

Some STDs result in females becoming infertile.

Young people, because they are more likely to engage in casual recreational sex, are the last people to provide with free oral contraceptives.
They need to use the free condoms they are already entitled to, for what should be obvious reasons.

Leftards, stop making young people believe they only need to worry about getting pregnant! Being made infertile leads to endless expensive courses to 'fix" this problem.

 

[Tilly]

But it paid for your kid's education.

Are you comparing the value of education to recreational sex?

It can be argued that all children result from recreational sex. Why should I have to pay for that result by paying to educate your kids when I don't have kids?

The reason is an uneducated population is detrimental to our society, so it's in all our interests to pay for it. Likewise, unwanted pregnancies (whether or not you agree with how they came about) are also detrimental to our society and cost far more then the cost of preventing them.

as a societal goal it benefits us to have an educated population. we have long ago moved away from the "only the aristocracy is educated" BS that the right is trying, for some reason I can't imagine, to bring back.

reality.... unwanted pregnancies are bad for society. So I agree. It has also been shown that crime rates go down when abortion is legal since those least capable of managing a family at a given point in time will not be forced to become incubators.

period.

Dr Grump Are you trying to say that people should only have reproductive choice if they're wealthy?

Why are you suggesting only the upper classes can understand how and why not to get pregnant?

 

[Tilly]

Since some posters here seem to believe that anecdotal evidence suffices, let me say this.
I have two sisters and three brothers.

Neither myself or my sisters got pregnant, and none of my brothers impregnated anyone, before we were either married or in the relationships we are still now in.

BTW, We don't have a magic formula. We were simply raised to respect our parents, and therefore to know it would hurt them inordinately if we messed up in such a way. Being very clear about why pregnancy and STD's were not something they wanted for us, it was quite easy for us not to mess up.

Humans are not wild animals, regardless of what the OP would have you believe. It's about many issues, but right at the outset, it's about parenting and about respect and about teaching kids morality and self worth.

Libtards will tell you it's not possible to instil such values in the young anymore, or that it's even wrong to try - i.e. 'Judgemental' - to that i say BULL. And stop trying to destroy the family and its moral values.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's fine, your view is your view. Just wanted to make sure I understood that the outcome for the rest of society comes second to your belief system. So at that point there's no need for evidence of societal outcomes or any other discussion as far as the rest of society goes, you just want what you want and you think that is some kind of moral underpinning.

That's a great deal of the problem with american society, we don't really have one, a society, we have a bunch of individuals who don't give a fuck about society at all, they just want whatever they want with no regard for their fellow citizens. That's their view of some type of morality. "I believe xyz and I don't really care about what that might mean for the rest of society, and evidence and reality have no bearing on what I believe".

No, I'm wondering why if I go to the movies you won't pay for my recreational activity, but you expect me to pay for yours? You seem to have so little faith in the human race that they can't make up their own minds whether they should shag without protection or not. And if they chose not to somehow that reflects on my belief system not their life choice.

You have me wrong. Almost daily I'm accused of being left of Lenin. I do give a fuck about society. A guy I know races boats. Costs him about $15000 a year. Should I pay for that too. Your default position seems to be that when people make bad decisions, instead of them being held accountable we should pay for them because if we don't it is somehow a lesser society. Do you think that is a great message to send? I don't.

No one's asking you to pay for anything hon, relax.

More leftist fucking delusion.

 

[SmokeALib]

Actually, only liberals should be required to take birth control.

 

[Dr Grump]

[

Oh, yeah, and.... that's worked, hasn't it?

Oh, wait, no it hasn't. The abstinence without birth control form of "education" is the worst form of education.

Yes, people's bad choice becomes your problem. So, the CHEAPEST way of dealing with it is to have a targeted campaign of birth control. There's no way to solve this by saying "I don't want to pay for stuff", you pay or you pay more.

So the answer is to reward people and enable their behaviour? it has already been pointed out, a planned parenthood you can get rubbers for free. Be my guest

Firstly, the behavior happens. Where I grew up, in a small place with a few hundred people, a 13 year old got pregnant. Why do you think that was?

I worked with a guy who left his job to do a PhD in Biology, he had an STD, why do you think that was?

I went on a combi in Lesotho and when the combi got to the last stop in some rural-ish place, everyone who got off but me went to the HIV/AIDS hospital. A poster in the capital had the HIV/AIDS rate of every region in the country. The lowest was 19%. They estimate that women of child bearing age in the capital had a 50%+ rate.

You can talk about not having sex, but it happens regardless of what you will say. It happens to intellectual people and stupid people, it happens to most people.

And for those people who tell others not to do it, well, they can scream and shout all they like, but it won't solve the problem. We know how to solve the problem, and we know how to avoid the problem. I have ask, why do you choose the latter?

A lot of your post reeks of lack of education. Get educated. Don't make your problem mine.

 

[Dr Grump]

Dr Grump Are you trying to say that people should only have reproductive choice if they're wealthy?

Rubbers are free. Last time I looked you don't have to be wealthy to get something for free.Do you? You are right. Unwanted pregnancies are bad for society. So are gangsters, bank robbers and burglars. Hey, why don't we pay them NOT to burgle. not to be bank robbers. not to be gangsters. yeah, that'll work..