Why the fight against Birth Control?

[Coyote]

As I've said. BC should be free.
It ends a whole lot of issues.

Ironically and paradoxically, free birth control is a lot less expensive socially than unwanted children are.

Birth control and abortions have been available for a long time. I think some choose to have the babies just for the welfare. I've met some like that. If the women choose to ignore the many options for preventing pregnancy, then whose fault it is if a child is unwanted?

Birth control is so cheap and I thought it was free at Planned Parenthood. Do you plan on taking the pills to women and forcing them to take them? They have the option now and it's not difficult to get them. Don't schools still give away free condoms? Either they are too stupid or they want to get pregnant. Are their parents also really stupid? Why do libs think it's up to the state to take care of things that should be the responsibility of parents and individuals? And why would people ever change when the state makes sure that they never face the consequences of their actions? Teen pregnancies have increased after years of liberal education. Nice going.

Teen pregnancies have been decreasing both birth rates, pregnancy rates and abortion rates. Thanks to "liberal education".

Why is the teen birth rate falling?

This is attributed to a combination of factors - less sex, better contraception, and more information about pregnancy prevention.

If that were true, why are libs suddenly demanding that tax payers foot the bill for birth control and abortion? If unwanted pregnancies were down, it would mean people are actually exercising self control and making better choices. So, why the sudden need for more tax dollars to fund this if the problem were actually solving itself?

We've had information about pregnancy prevention for decades. Who on earth didn't know how to prevent it?

Because in states that offer free birth control the rates go down even more.

 

[Vastator]

If someone asks you for money, go for it. Pay them to go sleep with people. Not my problem. You have a right to do what you want with your money. On the other hand, you don't have a right to use other people's money to force them to buy things against their will.

Birth control isn't. Stealing money from people to give it to others is. Pre-marrital sex is, as is encouraging people to do it.

I have to go with bear on this being pragmatic.
I would much rather stop unwanted pregnancies than to see women getting abortions. Which I find abhorrent.

I go with me on this one. Its not my responsibility to keep them from getting pregnant, or for them getting an abortion.

Pumpkin is going to call this a strawman argument.. Some will call me a Lefty.. But I am just using my brains And my compassion..

Some things I gladly pay my taxes for.

I have plenty of compassion. Just none for the beneficiaries of what's been stolen from me.

How is flipping a kid a quarter being stolen from you? Now me being forced to pay $500 bucks a month for something I don't ought right need is high way robbery like obozo care.

If it's your quarter, it's not stealing. If 5¢ of it is mine, it's stealing. And I agree, being forced to buy a product is illegal.

 

[Wyatt earp]

If you think abortion is horrible, then why don't you want to take steps to reduce it? If free birth control and education help people make the right choices, it makes sense to do it.

Your attitude seems more about punishment that responsibility and doesn't seem like it would do anything about actually preventing the problem . You have labeled them all whores and cast them out of humanity.

Do you support sex education in schools?

I do want to. Hence saying it should be illegal. If Liberals actually upheld the constitution in the first place, abortion wouldn't be a thing.

Birth control doesn't help people make the right decision, it encourages being a whore. You're suggesting counterproductive steps to solve a problem, much like all Liberal policies.

Cast them out of humanity? Not so, most people are awful, I'm considering them a part of that. In the real world, one takes responsibility for their actions and deals with it, rather than relying on tax payers to cover for it. If people actually start realizing what such a mistake can do to their lives, they'll be less likely to make those mistakes... much like criminals being punished. Liberals are attempting to remove the consequences of these mistakes, thus encouraging said mistakes... much like banning the death penalty.

I don't know~

Of course...you do realize a number of innocent people have been executed?

Provide ACTUAL evidence an innocent was put to death because of the death penalty.

How Many Innocent People Are Sentenced To Death?
One in 25 Sentenced to Death in the U.S. Is Innocent
10 Innocent People Who Were Tragically Executed - Listverse

Ahh so "studies" prove it ehh? Once again provide the name of one proven innocent put to death.

I said it before governor Ryan went to prison.. But he was so aware of it happening in Illinois.. I kinda of believe him and like I said before in this thread I served 30 days in cook countie jail..

If you're interested in the facts research it.. Or commit a minor crime and talk to inmates at the toughest jails in the United States.

 

[frigidweirdo]

[

Oh, yeah, and.... that's worked, hasn't it?

Oh, wait, no it hasn't. The abstinence without birth control form of "education" is the worst form of education.

Yes, people's bad choice becomes your problem. So, the CHEAPEST way of dealing with it is to have a targeted campaign of birth control. There's no way to solve this by saying "I don't want to pay for stuff", you pay or you pay more.

So the answer is to reward people and enable their behaviour? it has already been pointed out, a planned parenthood you can get rubbers for free. Be my guest

Firstly, the behavior happens. Where I grew up, in a small place with a few hundred people, a 13 year old got pregnant. Why do you think that was?

I worked with a guy who left his job to do a PhD in Biology, he had an STD, why do you think that was?

I went on a combi in Lesotho and when the combi got to the last stop in some rural-ish place, everyone who got off but me went to the HIV/AIDS hospital. A poster in the capital had the HIV/AIDS rate of every region in the country. The lowest was 19%. They estimate that women of child bearing age in the capital had a 50%+ rate.

You can talk about not having sex, but it happens regardless of what you will say. It happens to intellectual people and stupid people, it happens to most people.

And for those people who tell others not to do it, well, they can scream and shout all they like, but it won't solve the problem. We know how to solve the problem, and we know how to avoid the problem. I have ask, why do you choose the latter?

I chose the latter because I can do it effectively. Furthermore any problem others encounter due to failure to conduct themselves the same; is only inflicted upon me due to socialistic policies which in turn cost me money. I don't care about these other people. And the answer to how socialism ails me, is not more socialism.

I just re-read what I wrote and I meant to say that we know how to solve the problem and we know how NOT to avoid the problem.

But it's interesting that for you this all comes down to money. I've found that China and the US are some of the most selfish countries on Earth. Money rules above all else, even above being happy. It's strange. The anger in the political system seems to be based around the fact that money doesn't buy happiness. And yet people don't see it and try and place there blame where it doesn't belong.

You don't care about other people? Well.....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That's fine, your view is your view. Just wanted to make sure I understood that the outcome for the rest of society comes second to your belief system. So at that point there's no need for evidence of societal outcomes or any other discussion as far as the rest of society goes, you just want what you want and you think that is some kind of moral underpinning.

That's a great deal of the problem with american society, we don't really have one, a society, we have a bunch of individuals who don't give a fuck about society at all, they just want whatever they want with no regard for their fellow citizens. That's their view of some type of morality. "I believe xyz and I don't really care about what that might mean for the rest of society, and evidence and reality have no bearing on what I believe".

No, I'm wondering why if I go to the movies you won't pay for my recreational activity, but you expect me to pay for yours? You seem to have so little faith in the human race that they can't make up their own minds whether they should shag without protection or not. And if they chose not to somehow that reflects on my belief system not their life choice.

You have me wrong. Almost daily I'm accused of being left of Lenin. I do give a fuck about society. A guy I know races boats. Costs him about $15000 a year. Should I pay for that too. Your default position seems to be that when people make bad decisions, instead of them being held accountable we should pay for them because if we don't it is somehow a lesser society. Do you think that is a great message to send? I don't.

No one's asking you to pay for anything hon, relax.

Yes you ARE.

 

[Tilly]

As I've said. BC should be free.
It ends a whole lot of issues.

Ironically and paradoxically, free birth control is a lot less expensive socially than unwanted children are.

Birth control and abortions have been available for a long time. I think some choose to have the babies just for the welfare. I've met some like that. If the women choose to ignore the many options for preventing pregnancy, then whose fault it is if a child is unwanted?

Birth control is so cheap and I thought it was free at Planned Parenthood. Do you plan on taking the pills to women and forcing them to take them? They have the option now and it's not difficult to get them. Don't schools still give away free condoms? Either they are too stupid or they want to get pregnant. Are their parents also really stupid? Why do libs think it's up to the state to take care of things that should be the responsibility of parents and individuals? And why would people ever change when the state makes sure that they never face the consequences of their actions? Teen pregnancies have increased after years of liberal education. Nice going.

Teen pregnancies have been decreasing both birth rates, pregnancy rates and abortion rates. Thanks to "liberal education".

Why is the teen birth rate falling?

This is attributed to a combination of factors - less sex, better contraception, and more information about pregnancy prevention.

If that were true, why are libs suddenly demanding that tax payers foot the bill for birth control and abortion? If unwanted pregnancies were down, it would mean people are actually exercising self control and making better choices. So, why the sudden need for more tax dollars to fund this if the problem were actually solving itself?

We've had information about pregnancy prevention for decades. Who on earth didn't know how to prevent it?

Exactly. It isn't exactly rocket science. Buy condom. Use it. Or don't have sex.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Dissect coyotes statement, which is totally bereft of any critical thinking. Does she really think free birth control especially given to a minor without the parents permission is going to help that minor make a responsible decision? Hell no. Now we can copulate whenever we want without thinking about any of the side effects, emotional or physical. Second sentence, responsible choice. That is the key and that is what invalidates her vaccination argument. You get vaccinations to protect you against things you have no control over. Having sex is a choice, you have the power not to engage in it, therefore it is not a health issue that is devoid of personal responsibility. And let's get this out of the way, men should not be getting any free sexual enhancement or anything else related to engaging in sex for free either.

Let's also address the it's cheaper to give them free birth control than to let them have kids. Ya think? If the govt didn't make having children your own private ATM machine we wouldn't have so many kids in the first place. If fathers of every color were forced to pay for the kids they fathered, there would be less out of wedlock pregnancies. No person is suggesting that anyone be prohibited from having sex, but liberals want to say it is more important to feel good first and consider your responsibilities second and if it goes south the rest of us should shoulder the consequences. Screw that. Birth control is free or in the nine dollar a month range if you get off your ass and search for it. Sex may be impossible to regulate but it is not an inalienable right, it is a choice.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You're not getting laid and you don't want anyone else to get something you can't have.

I'm 15, I don't want to "get laid", nor would I have any interest if I was older.

Casual sex isn't nearly the problem you believe it to be. In fact, there are some forms of cancer which are more prevalent in people who live chaste lives. For example, nuns have a much higher rate of breast cancer than the general population.

Link?

There is a lot to be said for having sex, outside of the obvious. Humans are not meant to be celibate. We're not designed that way. The instinct to procreate is second only to the survival instinct in humans.

Sounds like you're trying to justify this life style because you're part of it.

I find your "morality" to be laughable. Having sex is a wonderful thing. God wouldn't issue the equipment if He hadn't meant for us to use it.

Seems you missed the point entirely, but I've noticed you're a drone. I never said "Don't sleep with anyone ever".

There are many reasons to have a "casual" relationship, and if both parties are mature, sober, and respectful of one another, I see no problem with it. Where there is a power imbalance, coercion, or abuse, it is immoral.

"It's okay to be a slut if you're an adult".

People have sex. People have sex if they don't have sex education. People have sex if they don't have borth control. It's natural.

Said people are expecting the consequences of said actions, and I'm fine with that. They can also deal with said consequences themselves. They can buy birth control themselves, and if they choose not to or can't afford it, they can either choose not to take the risk, or deal with the consequences on their own. I don't care, as long as others don't pay for either.

The problem you are ignoring is that the consequences of said actions are far more wide reaching than people dealing with their own consequences.
Society changes because of the people in society. You have kids brought up by parents who don't have a clue, or don't care, and they're more likely to be criminals, more likely to disrupt at school. This is the reality of the situation.

You say they can choose not to take the risk and not have sex. I'm sorry, but this is extremely naive. You claim to be 15 years old, so I can understand that you don't get it yet.

The impulse for sex is testosterone. It's a drug within the body. Some people have to have sex in order to deal with the amount of testosterone in their body.

It has been found that porn has a POSITIVE effect on the rape rates and sex crimes.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/28803/title/Porn--Good-for-us-/

"
Scientific examination of the subject has found that as the use of porn increases, the rate of sex crimes goes down."

Why? Because men (mostly) need to get rid of this testosterone in their body.

If the need is there, then they will have to do something about it. For some it's about having sex. You seem to think sex is like a donut, that you can make the decision to stop eating donuts and it's that easy.

Actually it's more like trying to quit smoking. The drugs take over. The problem with sex is that the drug continues to be produced.

But you're talking about "I don't care, as long as I don't have to pay", again, this doesn't work. You WILL PAY no matter what. Now you can choose to pay for things like sex education, free birth control and the like, or you can choose to pay for more judges, more lawyers, more prison time. Do you know how much it costs to keep one person in prison for a year? Do you know how much free birth control for a year costs? Let's just say that the latter is far cheaper.

You can't pretend that this can just go away by people being responsible. One thing humans are good at is being irresponsible. You either deal with it before it becomes a problem, or you clean up the problem and spend 100 times more doing so.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You want to make them take responsibility but you don't want to make that choice any easier by providing free bc.

You think abortion is horrible but you don't want to reduce the rates by making birth control free.

You want them to suffer the consequences for their bad choices but those consequences may include children which you also don't want to support on the government dime.

It seems that it's not just about personal responsibility, it's about moral judgements and punishment.

Of course it's horrible, and unconstitutional, which is why it should be illegal. Yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

But then someone will always have to pay. Either they pay for birth control, or they end up paying for the kid once it's born. Which is cheaper? Especially when the child ends up committing crimes.

I don't care, it's a personal problem and a person responsibility, dependent on a personal decision, and nobody else should have to deal with the cost one way or the other.

Fine, no one should have to deal with the cost one way or another. Then go off to an island where there is only you and other people who don't have much testosterone.

The problem is you're looking at it from a very idealist reasoning.

I shouldn't have to deal with politicians being bastards looking out for their own career. But I do have to.
I shouldn't have to deal with the problem of pollution, but I do have to.

There are many "I shouldn't have to....... but I do"s in the world.

But there are two ways. The first is to say "i'm not doing anything about it" in which case it gets worse, or you act intelligently and deal with the problems before they become problems.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You want to make them take responsibility but you don't want to make that choice any easier by providing free bc.

You think abortion is horrible but you don't want to reduce the rates by making birth control free.

You want them to suffer the consequences for their bad choices but those consequences may include children which you also don't want to support on the government dime.

It seems that it's not just about personal responsibility, it's about moral judgements and punishment.

Of course it's horrible, and unconstitutional, which is why it should be illegal. Yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

But then someone will always have to pay. Either they pay for birth control, or they end up paying for the kid once it's born. Which is cheaper? Especially when the child ends up committing crimes.

I don't care, it's a personal problem and a person responsibility, dependent on a personal decision, and nobody else should have to deal with the cost one way or the other.

Oh god so know you're against charity, holding doors open for strangers, stopping to help someone with a broke down car, pushing a car out of a snow drift???

That's are all decisions made by an individual to help another, which is how charity should be, a personal decision, willingly made. Forced charity is simply thievery. You're drawing false conclusions in an attempt to strawman my argument.

You could choose to leave the country.

 

[Papageorgio]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

I am all for birth control, I don't know many people against birth control, buy all you want. I really don't care.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

That's are all decisions made by an individual to help another, which is how charity should be, a personal decision, willingly made. Forced charity is simply thievery. You're drawing false conclusions in an attempt to strawman my argument.

Giving a little girl free birth control what does it cost like $5 bucks or something.. Forced charity?

Stealing any amount of money from someone else to give to another is thievery and forced charity, yes. You're also intentionally ignoring the fact that it's not only more than one girl, but any that decide that for whatever reason keeping your legs closed is difficult, and also that it's not just once. Any amount of forced charity is wrong, regardless, but this would be for something that's not absolutely necessary and encourages immorality.

Kids have sex, rich ones poor ones.. I can't walk around the United States and talk to children and ask them are they having sex? And give them $5 bucks and tell them to go buy birth control..

I would be locked up..

Pumpkin some things I don't mind my taxes going for..

And why is birth control immoral?

Abortion to me is murder.. But condoms,kids being educated on sex, birth control?

That's not immoral.. That's doing the right thing.

If someone asks you for money, go for it. Pay them to go sleep with people. Not my problem. You have a right to do what you want with your money. On the other hand, you don't have a right to use other people's money to force them to buy things against their will.

Birth control isn't. Stealing money from people to give it to others is. Pre-marrital sex is, as is encouraging people to do it.

I have to go with bear on this being pragmatic.
I would much rather stop unwanted pregnancies than to see women getting abortions. Which I find abhorrent.

Abortions shouldn't be legal in the first place, and the government has no business stealing taxpayer money to buy things for other people who are fully capable of buying it themselves or keeping their legs closed. Sex isn't a necessity.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Of course it's horrible, and unconstitutional, which is why it should be illegal. Yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

But then someone will always have to pay. Either they pay for birth control, or they end up paying for the kid once it's born. Which is cheaper? Especially when the child ends up committing crimes.

I don't care, it's a personal problem and a person responsibility, dependent on a personal decision, and nobody else should have to deal with the cost one way or the other.

Oh god so know you're against charity, holding doors open for strangers, stopping to help someone with a broke down car, pushing a car out of a snow drift???

That's are all decisions made by an individual to help another, which is how charity should be, a personal decision, willingly made. Forced charity is simply thievery. You're drawing false conclusions in an attempt to strawman my argument.

You could choose to leave the country.

Go back to Russia.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Giving a little girl free birth control what does it cost like $5 bucks or something.. Forced charity?

Stealing any amount of money from someone else to give to another is thievery and forced charity, yes. You're also intentionally ignoring the fact that it's not only more than one girl, but any that decide that for whatever reason keeping your legs closed is difficult, and also that it's not just once. Any amount of forced charity is wrong, regardless, but this would be for something that's not absolutely necessary and encourages immorality.

Kids have sex, rich ones poor ones.. I can't walk around the United States and talk to children and ask them are they having sex? And give them $5 bucks and tell them to go buy birth control..

I would be locked up..

Pumpkin some things I don't mind my taxes going for..

And why is birth control immoral?

Abortion to me is murder.. But condoms,kids being educated on sex, birth control?

That's not immoral.. That's doing the right thing.

If someone asks you for money, go for it. Pay them to go sleep with people. Not my problem. You have a right to do what you want with your money. On the other hand, you don't have a right to use other people's money to force them to buy things against their will.

Birth control isn't. Stealing money from people to give it to others is. Pre-marrital sex is, as is encouraging people to do it.

I have to go with bear on this being pragmatic.
I would much rather stop unwanted pregnancies than to see women getting abortions. Which I find abhorrent.

Thank you just say no is ridiculous.

Exspacily to teenagers..

My first wife is no longer alive but she was an English major an knew shaksphere like the back of her hand.

Again pumpkin I am old but not that old..

Someone help me out with Shakespeare.. These two kids were only 15 and 16 right?

Yeah, and they both ended up killing themselves. such an inspiring story. People who lack self control, like they do, should follow their example.

 

[Papageorgio]

As I've said. BC should be free.
It ends a whole lot of issues.

Ironically and paradoxically, free birth control is a lot less expensive socially than unwanted children are.

Birth control and abortions have been available for a long time. I think some choose to have the babies just for the welfare. I've met some like that. If the women choose to ignore the many options for preventing pregnancy, then whose fault it is if a child is unwanted?

Birth control is so cheap and I thought it was free at Planned Parenthood. Do you plan on taking the pills to women and forcing them to take them? They have the option now and it's not difficult to get them. Don't schools still give away free condoms? Either they are too stupid or they want to get pregnant. Are their parents also really stupid? Why do libs think it's up to the state to take care of things that should be the responsibility of parents and individuals? And why would people ever change when the state makes sure that they never face the consequences of their actions? Teen pregnancies have increased after years of liberal education. Nice going.

Teen pregnancies have been decreasing both birth rates, pregnancy rates and abortion rates. Thanks to "liberal education".

Why is the teen birth rate falling?

This is attributed to a combination of factors - less sex, better contraception, and more information about pregnancy prevention.

If that were true, why are libs suddenly demanding that tax payers foot the bill for birth control and abortion? If unwanted pregnancies were down, it would mean people are actually exercising self control and making better choices. So, why the sudden need for more tax dollars to fund this if the problem were actually solving itself?

We've had information about pregnancy prevention for decades. Who on earth didn't know how to prevent it?

Exactly. It isn't exactly rocket science. Buy condom. Use it. Or don't have sex.

Are you expecting humans to control their sexual urges? What a revolutionary thought.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Stealing any amount of money from someone else to give to another is thievery and forced charity, yes. You're also intentionally ignoring the fact that it's not only more than one girl, but any that decide that for whatever reason keeping your legs closed is difficult, and also that it's not just once. Any amount of forced charity is wrong, regardless, but this would be for something that's not absolutely necessary and encourages immorality.

Kids have sex, rich ones poor ones.. I can't walk around the United States and talk to children and ask them are they having sex? And give them $5 bucks and tell them to go buy birth control..

I would be locked up..

Pumpkin some things I don't mind my taxes going for..

And why is birth control immoral?

Abortion to me is murder.. But condoms,kids being educated on sex, birth control?

That's not immoral.. That's doing the right thing.

If someone asks you for money, go for it. Pay them to go sleep with people. Not my problem. You have a right to do what you want with your money. On the other hand, you don't have a right to use other people's money to force them to buy things against their will.

Birth control isn't. Stealing money from people to give it to others is. Pre-marrital sex is, as is encouraging people to do it.

I have to go with bear on this being pragmatic.
I would much rather stop unwanted pregnancies than to see women getting abortions. Which I find abhorrent.

I go with me on this one. Its not my responsibility to keep them from getting pregnant, or for them getting an abortion.

I believe we should hand out BC like skittles.
If they get pregnant thats on them and we refuse to pay for them.

Neither should be paid for by Taxpayers in the first place.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

If someone asks you for money, go for it. Pay them to go sleep with people. Not my problem. You have a right to do what you want with your money. On the other hand, you don't have a right to use other people's money to force them to buy things against their will.

Birth control isn't. Stealing money from people to give it to others is. Pre-marrital sex is, as is encouraging people to do it.

I have to go with bear on this being pragmatic.
I would much rather stop unwanted pregnancies than to see women getting abortions. Which I find abhorrent.

I go with me on this one. Its not my responsibility to keep them from getting pregnant, or for them getting an abortion.

Pumpkin is going to call this a strawman argument.. Some will call me a Lefty.. But I am just using my brains And my compassion..

Some things I gladly pay my taxes for.

I have plenty of compassion. Just none for the beneficiaries of what's been stolen from me.

How is flipping a kid a quarter being stolen from you? Now me being forced to pay $500 bucks a month for something I don't ought right need is high way robbery like obozo care.

Because taking ANYTHING from someone and giving it to another is still theft? People don't need birth control, they can easily just not have sex. Sex is not mandatory, people don't need it to survive, the government doesn't need to provide it, private industry already sells it. If people want things for 'free', paid for by taxpayer dollars, they can move to Russia, they'd be happy to have more lazy pieces of trash.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

The problem you are ignoring is that the consequences of said actions are far more wide reaching than people dealing with their own consequences.
Society changes because of the people in society. You have kids brought up by parents who don't have a clue, or don't care, and they're more likely to be criminals, more likely to disrupt at school. This is the reality of the situation.

You say they can choose not to take the risk and not have sex. I'm sorry, but this is extremely naive. You claim to be 15 years old, so I can understand that you don't get it yet.

The impulse for sex is testosterone. It's a drug within the body. Some people have to have sex in order to deal with the amount of testosterone in their body.

It has been found that porn has a POSITIVE effect on the rape rates and sex crimes.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/28803/title/Porn--Good-for-us-/

"
Scientific examination of the subject has found that as the use of porn increases, the rate of sex crimes goes down."

Why? Because men (mostly) need to get rid of this testosterone in their body.

If the need is there, then they will have to do something about it. For some it's about having sex. You seem to think sex is like a donut, that you can make the decision to stop eating donuts and it's that easy.

Actually it's more like trying to quit smoking. The drugs take over. The problem with sex is that the drug continues to be produced.

But you're talking about "I don't care, as long as I don't have to pay", again, this doesn't work. You WILL PAY no matter what. Now you can choose to pay for things like sex education, free birth control and the like, or you can choose to pay for more judges, more lawyers, more prison time. Do you know how much it costs to keep one person in prison for a year? Do you know how much free birth control for a year costs? Let's just say that the latter is far cheaper.

You can't pretend that this can just go away by people being responsible. One thing humans are good at is being irresponsible. You either deal with it before it becomes a problem, or you clean up the problem and spend 100 times more doing so.

You just made an argument against your own. First, that people can masturbate instead of having sex. Second, that more inmates should receive the death penalty. Thank you.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

You want to make them take responsibility but you don't want to make that choice any easier by providing free bc.

You think abortion is horrible but you don't want to reduce the rates by making birth control free.

You want them to suffer the consequences for their bad choices but those consequences may include children which you also don't want to support on the government dime.

It seems that it's not just about personal responsibility, it's about moral judgements and punishment.

Of course it's horrible, and unconstitutional, which is why it should be illegal. Yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

But then someone will always have to pay. Either they pay for birth control, or they end up paying for the kid once it's born. Which is cheaper? Especially when the child ends up committing crimes.

I don't care, it's a personal problem and a person responsibility, dependent on a personal decision, and nobody else should have to deal with the cost one way or the other.

Fine, no one should have to deal with the cost one way or another. Then go off to an island where there is only you and other people who don't have much testosterone.

The problem is you're looking at it from a very idealist reasoning.

I shouldn't have to deal with politicians being bastards looking out for their own career. But I do have to.
I shouldn't have to deal with the problem of pollution, but I do have to.

There are many "I shouldn't have to....... but I do"s in the world.

But there are two ways. The first is to say "i'm not doing anything about it" in which case it gets worse, or you act intelligently and deal with the problems before they become problems.

Liberals are what causes a single person's problem to become everyone's problem. We should just ship you all to Russia, problem solved.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

I do want to. Hence saying it should be illegal. If Liberals actually upheld the constitution in the first place, abortion wouldn't be a thing.

Birth control doesn't help people make the right decision, it encourages being a whore. You're suggesting counterproductive steps to solve a problem, much like all Liberal policies.

Cast them out of humanity? Not so, most people are awful, I'm considering them a part of that. In the real world, one takes responsibility for their actions and deals with it, rather than relying on tax payers to cover for it. If people actually start realizing what such a mistake can do to their lives, they'll be less likely to make those mistakes... much like criminals being punished. Liberals are attempting to remove the consequences of these mistakes, thus encouraging said mistakes... much like banning the death penalty.

I don't know~

Of course...you do realize a number of innocent people have been executed?

Provide ACTUAL evidence an innocent was put to death because of the death penalty.

How Many Innocent People Are Sentenced To Death?
One in 25 Sentenced to Death in the U.S. Is Innocent
10 Innocent People Who Were Tragically Executed - Listverse

Ahh so "studies" prove it ehh? Once again provide the name of one proven innocent put to death.

I said it before governor Ryan went to prison.. But he was so aware of it happening in Illinois.. I kinda of believe him and like I said before in this thread I served 30 days in cook countie jail..

If you're interested in the facts research it.. Or commit a minor crime and talk to inmates at the toughest jails in the United States.

Wonder how many inmates claim they're innocent. Surely not many... /Sarcasm