Why the fight against Birth Control?

[Coyote]

It can be argued that all children result from recreational sex. Why should I have to pay for that result by paying to educate your kids when I don't have kids?

The reason is an uneducated population is detrimental to our society, so it's in all our interests to pay for it. Likewise, unwanted pregnancies (whether or not you agree with how they came about) are also detrimental to our society and cost far more then the cost of preventing them.

I think the point is moot. A large percentage of people who get pregnant would forget to the take the pill anyway.

Yet - countries where it is freely available have lower rates of teen pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies and abortions then we do.

 

[Dr Grump]

I hope you have some study to cite or something.

Nope. But I would suggest that the vast majority of people know when you have sex there is a chance the woman might get pregnant. Yet they still take the risk. I never would when I was younger. That would suggest to me that if they are willing to take that kind of risk, then taking a pill every day - or in the case of men buying condoms - probably doesn't rate that high on their 'must do before sex' list.

 

[Cecilie1200]

They can go fuck a dildo for all I care. You want dick? Pay for the consequences your damn self.

Then you have no problem with abortion?

You understand that birth control and abortion are two totally separate issues, with two totally separate areas of and reasons for concern, yes?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Mostly, it's offering it through the ACA that I mean.

ACA is just like any other insurance.

Should be no different. No special carve outs. A parasite is still a parasite.

And still you continue to post ignorance and untruth about matters you so clearly know nothing about. Distressing.

 

[Dr Grump]

Yet - countries where it is freely available have lower rates of teen pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies and abortions then we do.

Yeah, you're probably right. I'm more a centrist on most issues. But paying for other peoples' BC and death taxes are two where I stand on the right. I get your point. And it's a valid one. We just see it differently.

 

[Dr Grump]

I have to pay for maternity coverage on my health insurance plan, as well as other benefits that I will likely never need. Comparing birth control to a nose job or liposuction is really a false comparison since neither of the latter have any effect on public health.

Really? You have to pay for maternity coverage? Is that compulsory or an option? I don't think it's fair to be compulsory if you have no desire to have kids.

 

[Fenton Lum]

I hope you have some study to cite or something.

Nope. But I would suggest that the vast majority of people know when you have sex there is a chance the woman might get pregnant. Yet they still take the risk. I never would when I was younger. That would suggest to me that if they are willing to take that kind of risk, then taking a pill every day - or in the case of men buying condoms - probably doesn't rate that high on their 'must do before sex' list.

Yeah well, that's pretty thin pard, you just made some shit up talked yorself into it being fact.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

The problem is it is a lifestyle issue, not a healthcare issue. Are you going to provide free helmets for motorcyclists?

I disagree, it's not a lifestyle issue. For example birth control is used by married people. Reproduction and sex are pretty hardwired in our species. In terms of cost/benefit - it makes sense to provide free birth control and it certainly seems to correlate with lower rates of teen pregnancies and abortion.

I'm not opposed to birth control, just to providing it as a mandatory part of health insurance. I don't want to pay for your birth control pills or your motorcycle helmet of your nose job or your liposuction. I recognize all these things may be important to you but they don't belong in a health insurance plan everyone has to pay for.

I have to pay for maternity coverage on my health insurance plan, as well as other benefits that I will likely never need. Comparing birth control to a nose job or liposuction is really a false comparison since neither of the latter have any effect on public health.

There is no sense in which birth control is a public health issue.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Yet - countries where it is freely available have lower rates of teen pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies and abortions then we do.

Yeah, you're probably right. I'm more a centrist on most issues. But paying for other peoples' BC and death taxes are two where I stand on the right. I get your point. And it's a valid one. We just see it differently.

So your belief is more important than actual societal effects.

 

[Coyote]

When it comes to issues of "religious freedom" - there was a good workaround that was perfectly reasonable.

Benefits as in healthcare benefits work both ways - you, as an employer pay a share, and I as an employee pay a share. Those benefits are part of what I receive in exchange for the work I do. Part of the contract.

If I have no right to force you to pay for something that you view as unethical, then likewise - you have no more "right" to deny me benefits my insurance company is willing to pay for.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

The problem is it is a lifestyle issue, not a healthcare issue. Are you going to provide free helmets for motorcyclists?

I disagree, it's not a lifestyle issue. For example birth control is used by married people. Reproduction and sex are pretty hardwired in our species. In terms of cost/benefit - it makes sense to provide free birth control and it certainly seems to correlate with lower rates of teen pregnancies and abortion.

I'm not opposed to birth control, just to providing it as a mandatory part of health insurance. I don't want to pay for your birth control pills or your motorcycle helmet of your nose job or your liposuction. I recognize all these things may be important to you but they don't belong in a health insurance plan everyone has to pay for.

I have to pay for maternity coverage on my health insurance plan, as well as other benefits that I will likely never need. Comparing birth control to a nose job or liposuction is really a false comparison since neither of the latter have any effect on public health.

There is no sense in which birth control is a public health issue.

There'rs no sense in which yours is a medical opinion.

 

[Dr Grump]

Yeah well, that's pretty thin pard, you just made some shit up talked yorself into it being fact.

Didn't say it was fact. Wouldn't surprise me though.

 

[Coyote]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

The problem is it is a lifestyle issue, not a healthcare issue. Are you going to provide free helmets for motorcyclists?

I disagree, it's not a lifestyle issue. For example birth control is used by married people. Reproduction and sex are pretty hardwired in our species. In terms of cost/benefit - it makes sense to provide free birth control and it certainly seems to correlate with lower rates of teen pregnancies and abortion.

I'm not opposed to birth control, just to providing it as a mandatory part of health insurance. I don't want to pay for your birth control pills or your motorcycle helmet of your nose job or your liposuction. I recognize all these things may be important to you but they don't belong in a health insurance plan everyone has to pay for.

I have to pay for maternity coverage on my health insurance plan, as well as other benefits that I will likely never need. Comparing birth control to a nose job or liposuction is really a false comparison since neither of the latter have any effect on public health.

There is no sense in which birth control is a public health issue.

It absolutely is because unwanted pregnancies and teen pregnancies all have a public cost

 

[Dr Grump]

[

So your belief is more important than actual societal effects.

Of course it is. We all have our own beliefs and mores, and moral systems we live by. This is mine. I see sex as a recreational activity. I don't expect you to pay for my recreational activities, and I don't want to pay for yours.

 

[whitehall]

If you are going to post an argument about "birth control" you have to define it. Does "birth control" include horror houses like Dr. Kermit Gosnel in Pa. where full term babies who slipped out of the birth canal were beheaded on the table and a woman patient was found dead? Does "birth control" include stabbing full term infants in the back of the head and sucking out their brains with a frankenstein machine while they silently scream as a couple of inches of their head remained in the birth canal to make it "legal"? A kennel would be shut down and people would go to jail for doing the same thing to freaking dogs.

 

[WillowTree]

It can be argued that all children result from recreational sex. Why should I have to pay for that result by paying to educate your kids when I don't have kids?

The reason is an uneducated population is detrimental to our society, so it's in all our interests to pay for it. Likewise, unwanted pregnancies (whether or not you agree with how they came about) are also detrimental to our society and cost far more then the cost of preventing them.

I think the point is moot. A large percentage of people who get pregnant would forget to the take the pill anyway.

Yet - countries where it is freely available have lower rates of teen pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies and abortions then we do.

Nothing is free. Why don't you liberals get that?

 

[toomuchtime_]

The problem is it is a lifestyle issue, not a healthcare issue. Are you going to provide free helmets for motorcyclists?

I disagree, it's not a lifestyle issue. For example birth control is used by married people. Reproduction and sex are pretty hardwired in our species. In terms of cost/benefit - it makes sense to provide free birth control and it certainly seems to correlate with lower rates of teen pregnancies and abortion.

I'm not opposed to birth control, just to providing it as a mandatory part of health insurance. I don't want to pay for your birth control pills or your motorcycle helmet of your nose job or your liposuction. I recognize all these things may be important to you but they don't belong in a health insurance plan everyone has to pay for.

I have to pay for maternity coverage on my health insurance plan, as well as other benefits that I will likely never need. Comparing birth control to a nose job or liposuction is really a false comparison since neither of the latter have any effect on public health.

There is no sense in which birth control is a public health issue.

It absolutely is because unwanted pregnancies and teen pregnancies all have a public cost

It may be an important issue, but it is not a public health issue.

 

[Vastator]

Gee, that's comparable, own the land you want to hunt?

okay polygomy. Back in the day the head honcho of the tribe had a harem of women. This is because he was the biggest baddest horndog on the block, and women were given protection by the biggest, baddest horndog. He was hard wired to shag a lot, she was hard wired to get protection. In muslim countries it is still legal. in western countries, illegal.

From a biological view point, it's much more basic. Unlike other primates - she has no estrus. Because it's hidden, he's hard wired to shag a lot, and she's hard wired to keep him guessing as to her exact reproductive status. Means they're both hard wired to fuck a lot since you never know if you'll ring the pregnancy bell and, somehow, it became enjoyable to both - another anomaly...but probably to encourage more shagging.

Well fuck it then! Let's all just have an orgy!

It can be argued that all children result from recreational sex. Why should I have to pay for that result by paying to educate your kids when I don't have kids?

The reason is an uneducated population is detrimental to our society, so it's in all our interests to pay for it. Likewise, unwanted pregnancies (whether or not you agree with how they came about) are also detrimental to our society and cost far more then the cost of preventing them.

I think the point is moot. A large percentage of people who get pregnant would forget to the take the pill anyway.

Yet - countries where it is freely available have lower rates of teen pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies and abortions then we do.

Nothing is free. Why don't you liberals get that?

Liberalism is an ideology whose goal is to share the burden of their own bad decisions across society as a whole.

 

[Dr Grump]

Nothing is free. Why don't you liberals get that?

I think some things should be 'free'. Public health for example. I don't mind my tax payer dollars going towards that. I see it as almost like an insurance policy. I'll pay into it so others benefit. Then when it comes to my turn - which it will some day - I get to cash in. It's probably cheaper than health insurance too..

 

[WillowTree]