Why Was No One Armed & Shooting Back In El Paso WalMart ?

[edthecynic]

Yet another shooting at a gun-free zone: El Paso shooting at Cielo Vista Mall...

Winner post. So once again, the Obama/Biden idiocy of disarming law-abiding citizens, rendering them defenseless, while giving the green light invitation to mass shooters, has gotten another 20 people killed

Lies are always winners to the lying scum Right.

 

[protectionist]

Even more shocking to me, on a very personal level as a man, an amazing woman's significant other, a son, a big brother, an uncle and a currently serving member of the armed forces, is the failure of every last adult human victim or bystander to do nothing more than at the very least charge the gunman and physically fuck his day up or at least try to be a human meat shield to protect others. I'll just go ahead and state the obvious—what no one else seems to be talking about; that which is on everyone else's mind: why didn't someone do something, anything to stop this fucker so other people could survive, get away, still be breathing. You know, it's almost like this incident was prearranged; almost like all these people were lured into being victims or set up to be easy kills.

Whenever I personally go to my local Wal Mart or the Mall, from the moment I park and we're heading for the store entrance, I am scanning other shoppers, store roofs, cover, wood/tree lines, whatever, for potential danger or threats to my lady and myself. Same goes for when shopping inside the store or eating in a restaurant. In short, I am always prepared to defend my lady or ambush an ambusher. Does no one else think this way? Have most modern "men" become such bleating, pacified sheep they'd rather flee danger than stand and defend all they love and care about in this world? WTF?

It was classified as a weapons free zone. No weapons allowed. Leave your pepper spray and pen knife in the car.

I'm still wondering though, if this is mall policy or govt law. I know at the VA Hospital here in Tampa FL, it is the law. An open invitation to terrorists.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

How do you know no one was armed?

Read the title of the thread. It doesn't say no one was armed. It says "No one Was Armed AND SHOOTING BACK" Get it ?

You think maybe because it was a bad idea to shoot back in a situation with people running all over like that?

Yep, that's one of the rules of basic firearm safety

#4 Be sure of your target and what lies beyond it.

You are responsible for everything which a round you shoot comes in contact with. This means another big dose of situational awareness BEFORE you make the decision to shoot! Consider the height of your target and the angle at which you will shoot it. If the round would make an impact through you intended target and impact something other than a bullet safe berm, trap or safe zone then you are obligated not to take the shot. This means never point or fire ar anything you can’t clearly identify as a target or that would be a danger if your bullet strays, ricochets, or over penetrates.
4 Rules of Gun Safety ⋆ A Girl and A Gun​

 

[edthecynic]

I suspected that, it explains why he drove 600 miles to find a soft target. Just like the Colorado wack job who passed two other movie theatres to get to the one that didn't allow firearms.

Gun free zone strikes again.

There were guns, it was Texas after all!
None of the "Good Guys with a Gun" ran to the shooting when they heard it, it is Texas after all.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Even more shocking to me, on a very personal level as a man, an amazing woman's significant other, a son, a big brother, an uncle and a currently serving member of the armed forces, is the failure of every last adult human victim or bystander to do nothing more than at the very least charge the gunman and physically fuck his day up or at least try to be a human meat shield to protect others. I'll just go ahead and state the obvious—what no one else seems to be talking about; that which is on everyone else's mind: why didn't someone do something, anything to stop this fucker so other people could survive, get away, still be breathing. You know, it's almost like this incident was prearranged; almost like all these people were lured into being victims or set up to be easy kills.

Whenever I personally go to my local Wal Mart or the Mall, from the moment I park and we're heading for the store entrance, I am scanning other shoppers, store roofs, cover, wood/tree lines, whatever, for potential danger or threats to my lady and myself. Same goes for when shopping inside the store or eating in a restaurant. In short, I am always prepared to defend my lady or ambush an ambusher. Does no one else think this way? Have most modern "men" become such bleating, pacified sheep they'd rather flee danger than stand and defend all they love and care about in this world? WTF?

It was classified as a weapons free zone. No weapons allowed. Leave your pepper spray and pen knife in the car.

I'm still wondering though, if this is mall policy or govt law. I know at the VA Hospital here in Tampa FL, it is the law. An open invitation to terrorists.

Concealed carry licensees are granted permission to carry in all areas that are not explicitedly prohibited such as courthouses, federal buldings/property, etc and possibly some state government locations however I'm not sure of the exact restrictions for the state of Texas because I don't have one of their permits.

If the mall or Walmart was designated a "gun free zone" then in all likelihood it is the policy of the property owners and not a law. As such people are free to ignore their policies however if asked to leave and they refuse, then it because a tresspass issue for which they can be arrested.

But if you note, neither the rule against carrying on the property, nor the law against shooting people and murdering them prevented either from occurring.

 

[protectionist]

Trump's phony philanthropy has offered a rare glimpse at his tax returns for over a year now, but New York Democrats seem unwilling to jeopardize future campaign contributions from real estate speculators?

Opinion | How to Make Trump’s Tax Returns Public

"On June 14, (2018) the New York State attorney general, Barbara Underwood, filed a civil complaint against President Trump and his three oldest children, accusing them of 'persistently illegal conduct' in using the Donald J. Trump Foundation as 'little more than a checkbook for payments from Mr. Trump or his businesses to nonprofits, regardless of their purpose or legality.'

"Ms. Underwood believes there is abundant evidence to bring criminal charges against Mr. Trump as well..."

Unfortunately, Ms Underwood lacks legal authority to bring such criminal charges under New York law; however, New York's governor could do so if he wanted.

"The attorney general could, however, easily gain that authority. All that’s needed is for Gov. Andrew Cuomo, the New York State Police or the state Department of Taxation and Finance to make a request, and the authority would be granted to her. Criminal jurisdiction also rests with Cyrus Vance Jr., the Manhattan district attorney. Mr. Vance has shown no interest, so far, in investigating other complaints against Mr. Trump."

Watch Cynthia Nixon's brutal ad slamming Andrew Cuomo's refusal to return Trump campaign donations

 

[protectionist]

This is a dumb question, but lets say the police arrive to one of these mass shootings and there are 4 or 5 people shooting weapons. How would they know who to start shooting at?

They would be told by the shoppers there. And told by 911 dispatch.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

The El Paso Walmart shooter killed 20 people (so far) and wounded 26 more. He may well have fired some shots missing people also. It's pretty fair to say this nut fired at least 50 shots, and very possibly well more than that.

It takes quite some time to fire that many shots individually, as this guy did, walking aisle to aisle, through the store. If there had been an armed security guard, or any armed citizen with a CCW license, this guy could have (and should have) been stopped cold after the first 2 or 3 shots.

As someone who has a CCW license, and is armed 99% of the time, when I'm walking around outside, it is amazing to me that there could have been that many people walking around unarmed and defenseless. Why? Don't they know something like this could happen at any time ?

In contrast, in 2002, a Muslim terrorist (Hesham Mohamed Hadayet) walked into Los Angeles Airport (LAX) armed with 2 handguns, plus magazines loaded with dozens of bullets. He shot and killed 2 people, and wounded 4. The airport was filled with people. The terrorist was shot dead right on the spot, by a security guard who was armed and ready to deal. Without that good guy with a gun, the airport would have been a bloodbath, just like this WalMart, and probably even worse.

This ARMED DEFENSE is what should have been the case in El Paso. How this guy could pull off what he did without getting shot, by a guard or CCW carrying citizen is mind boggling.

2002 Los Angeles International Airport shooting - Wikipedia

I saw the videos yesterday of the people dead on the ground
and another video of a guy hiding under something ...if i was in the store carrying ...(ill ignore the sign if their is one
I wont ignore at a post office or dmv ...or government building ......or bar ) I would of Absolutely risked my life...if i had a chance I would of snuck around to try and get the drop on him

All I need is one of those first shots to knock him down
I have an ak ...if the left wants me to give em up because of the ELPASO WATERMELON KID theyre going to have to come n git em ... MY point is I know exactly what they are capable of ...

if he had the chance to return fire I know i'm not hiding behind the toaster aisle ..aks will take apart cinder blocks ...i'm Swiss cheese .Carrying a p938 sig i'm certainly out gunned ...but its an easy to conceal lil gun thats great for carrying ..
I would of risked my life and tried to stop him




ITs not trump that set him on his path
The constant barrage of Progressive nazi environmental bullshit helped to warp this kid

 

[harmonica]

The El Paso Walmart shooter killed 20 people (so far) and wounded 26 more. He may well have fired some shots missing people also. It's pretty fair to say this nut fired at least 50 shots, and very possibly well more than that.

It takes quite some time to fire that many shots individually, as this guy did, walking aisle to aisle, through the store. If there had been an armed security guard, or any armed citizen with a CCW license, this guy could have (and should have) been stopped cold after the first 2 or 3 shots.

As someone who has a CCW license, and is armed 99% of the time, when I'm walking around outside, it is amazing to me that there could have been that many people walking around unarmed and defenseless. Why? Don't they know something like this could happen at any time ?

In contrast, in 2002, a Muslim terrorist (Hesham Mohamed Hadayet) walked into Los Angeles Airport (LAX) armed with 2 handguns, plus magazines loaded with dozens of bullets. He shot and killed 2 people, and wounded 4. The airport was filled with people. The terrorist was shot dead right on the spot, by a security guard who was armed and ready to deal. Without that good guy with a gun, the airport would have been a bloodbath, just like this WalMart, and probably even worse.

This ARMED DEFENSE is what should have been the case in El Paso. How this guy could pull off what he did without getting shot, by a guard or CCW carrying citizen is mind boggling.

2002 Los Angeles International Airport shooting - Wikipedia

This is only an opinion, but I believe you are naive. For an ordinary civilian shopper, even if armed, it takes a while to figure out what is happening and where it is coming from. Texas is a open carry State and I doubt there were no armed shoppers. However they were mentally geared for WalMart, not Fallujah. I think we're lucky no innocent shopper was killed by a 'good guy with a gun'.

I agree
these are DYNAMIC situations--NOT TV land/movie land

In Dayton the Police took out the killer within one minute. That's how long it took him to kill 8 and wound 26. There's a video of the shots. Unbelievable!

guns are designed to kill--that's why they are the weapon of choice

 

[flacaltenn]

The El Paso Walmart shooter killed 20 people (so far) and wounded 26 more. He may well have fired some shots missing people also. It's pretty fair to say this nut fired at least 50 shots, and very possibly well more than that.

It takes quite some time to fire that many shots individually, as this guy did, walking aisle to aisle, through the store. If there had been an armed security guard, or any armed citizen with a CCW license, this guy could have (and should have) been stopped cold after the first 2 or 3 shots.

As someone who has a CCW license, and is armed 99% of the time, when I'm walking around outside, it is amazing to me that there could have been that many people walking around unarmed and defenseless. Why? Don't they know something like this could happen at any time ?

In contrast, in 2002, a Muslim terrorist (Hesham Mohamed Hadayet) walked into Los Angeles Airport (LAX) armed with 2 handguns, plus magazines loaded with dozens of bullets. He shot and killed 2 people, and wounded 4. The airport was filled with people. The terrorist was shot dead right on the spot, by a security guard who was armed and ready to deal. Without that good guy with a gun, the airport would have been a bloodbath, just like this WalMart, and probably even worse.

This ARMED DEFENSE is what should have been the case in El Paso. How this guy could pull off what he did without getting shot, by a guard or CCW carrying citizen is mind boggling.

2002 Los Angeles International Airport shooting - Wikipedia

First off.. You're simply wrong.. I've heard 2 people interviewed that were legally carrying.. One is current "on leave" Army... That one was simply too busy rescuing kids who were in the path... Took about 8 out with him.. That's a good day's work...

 

[protectionist]

These two situations are not similar at all and besides, the average concealed weapon licensee is not trained for an active shooter event.

Something I found very interesting although I cannot currently find the webpage is that the state of Florida used to have posted on their information site for concealed carry that a CCW permit is only a license to carry, not to use your weapon. While this might at first seem to be contradictory, if you think about it makes perfect sense. If is up to the license holder to be intimately familiar with the laws regarding lawful self-defense and defense of another. Furthermore a CCW doesn't grant the license holder police powers which far too many people seem to believe is now their right to try to police other people's behavior. Additionally, CCW holders are trained to avoid confrontation and to remove themselves from violent and escalating situations first and foremost.

As for trained, what trained to do what ? You point and shoot. CCW carriers in Florida are required to take training before being licensed, and many like myself are also ex-military.

The implications of using a deadly weapon to kill someone goes far beyond just surviving a gunfight, there then is the stress and financial cost of the fight to retain your freedom and dealing with the psychological impact of having taken someone's life. There are good reasons for simply focusing on getting yourself and your loved ones out of harms way and there is no one who can fault anyone for doing so.

FALSE! If you are a CCW carrier, and are armed, and you have position advantage enough to take out an active mass shooter, you should do that.

Furthermore, you appear to be ignorant regarding Florida CCW and self-defense law. A CCW holder does not need police powers to shoot a mass shooter. Shooting that mass shooter is covered under Florida's self-defense law.

Under Section 776.012, Florida Statutes (Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Law), a person is justified in using deadly force (and does not have a duty to retreat) if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony or to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another.

I find it interesting that you claim that the El Paso shooting and LAX are you say >> "not similar at all" What a ridiculous thing to say. If course they are similar. In both cases, a terrorist entered a building filled with people, and started shooting. And you say these are not similar at all ? Are you feeling OK ?

 

[protectionist]

If it's concealed why would it be?

Now open carry, that's a bit different

In the LAX incident, Hadayet WAS DETERRED from shooting all those (dozens, if not hundreds) he would have shot, if the good guy with a gun had not instantly shot and killed him.

Same argument as the deterrence of the death penalty. The dead killer kills no more. Deterred from killing again. Get it ?

 

[protectionist]

There was armed security at the Orlando nightclub and it's still our second worst mass shooting in history. I'm not sure if you have noticed but law enforcement is regularly shot and often killed. They are all armed. And of course concealed carry people have tried to stop shooting before and they are dead.
2014 Las Vegas shootings - Wikipedia

This was refuted earlier in the thread with numerous examples of CCW holders stopping criminal shooters

 

[protectionist]

You think maybe because it was a bad idea to shoot back in a situation with people running all over like that?

Obviously, I DON'T think it a bad idea to shoot back, since the OP is advocating just that, and wondering why nobody did do that.

Also, in my own gun, I have hollow point bullets, which stay inside the perpetrator's body. Don't go through, and richochet around.

 

[protectionist]

if there are many CCW around, then they won't know who the real shooter is, probably
the real shooter can say he's the good guy--like the Norwegian mass murderer
if you come up on the real shooter OR a real good guy, --you have to to kill them
Norway killings: The laughing gunman who shot 85 young victims, one by one

The cops will certainly be advised, from shoppers' 911 calls, a full description of the mass shooter. Cops will know who's who.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

There was armed security at the Orlando nightclub and it's still our second worst mass shooting in history. I'm not sure if you have noticed but law enforcement is regularly shot and often killed. They are all armed. And of course concealed carry people have tried to stop shooting before and they are dead.
2014 Las Vegas shootings - Wikipedia

This was refuted earlier in the thread with numerous examples of CCW holders stopping criminal shooters

Wrong.

Isolated, anecdotal incidents prove nothing.

The fact remains that there is no objective, documented evidence in support of the notion that citizens carrying concealed firearms act as a deterrent to crime or otherwise stop mass shootings.

 

[protectionist]

I agree
these are DYNAMIC situations--NOT TV land/movie land

I DISagree 100%.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Apparently, most there were illegal aliens and assorted fat slobs on welfare.

Asshat I have nothing against illegals personally I just want them to follow our laws go back and legally enter the country. And give their heart and soul for the better of this country. I want people here that want America to be America and not some shit whole they left.
But your fucking comment was uncalled for

 

[protectionist]

but he has you outgunned...
.....what if there is another CCW with a gun--but you don't know he is a good guy--if you don't shoot him, he will kill you if he's the bad guy

You are coming up with very improbable scenarios.

1. As I explained before, if you are close to the shooter, and he is firing a semiautomatic (single shot) rifle, he does NOT have your handgun outgunned.

2. Not quite sure what you're talking about, but you positively ID the bad guy, by having seen him murdering innocent shoppers, and you shoot him QUICKLY. This aint rocket science.

 

[protectionist]

Even though the terms are used interchangeably they are not the same thing.

Self defense means just that - defense of one's "self". If you're referring to the lawful use of deadly force in defense of someone other than one's self then that's called something different

The right of self-defense (also called, when it applies to the defense of another, alter ego defense, defense of others, defense of a third person) is the right for people to use reasonable force or defensive force, for the purpose of defending one's own life (self-defense) or the lives of others, including –in certain circumstances– the use of deadly force.[1]
Right of self-defense - Wikipedia​

It's called self-defense in both cases, since it is all under the same self-defense law. And this isn't a thread about vocabulary, OK ?