Will more guns create a safer society?

[2aguy]

Gun aficionados often frame the debate in terms of protection, but it is vital to realise that the vast majority of rape and murder victims are not harmed by nefarious strangers, but by people they know, and often love – friends, family members, lovers.

Of the rapes that are attempted....how effective are guns at stopping them? What does the research show?

guns are the most effective way to stop a rape...superior to a knife, or empty hands and vastly better than screaming for help....here is the research...

rape more likely stopped with guns...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

So...if I were to try to use liberal logic...since guns are the most effective means at stopping a rape....using liberal logic...that means that anti gunners want women to be raped.....right?

 

[2aguy]

You know....you anti gunners know that the numbers of gun murders are 8-9,000 a year....if you have read gun debates here on U.S. message....

You also know that the average number of times a year a gun is used to save a life or stop a violent criminal attack is 1.6 million times a year...

So...you have to hide the truth...you only point out the problem with guns, knowing full well the numbers prove that guns save more lives than they take....

You guys....I would say mean things about you and your tactics...but it is Thanksgiving.....

 

[Geaux4it]

Gun aficionados often frame the debate in terms of protection, but it is vital to realise that the vast majority of rape and murder victims are not harmed by nefarious strangers, but by people they know, and often love – friends, family members, lovers.

Of the rapes that are attempted....how effective are guns at stopping them? What does the research show?

guns are the most effective way to stop a rape...superior to a knife, or empty hands and vastly better than screaming for help....here is the research...

rape more likely stopped with guns...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

So...if I were to try to use liberal logic...since guns are the most effective means at stopping a rape....using liberal logic...that means that anti gunners want women to be raped.....right?

 

[Saigon]

You know....you anti gunners know that the numbers of gun murders are 8-9,000 a year....if you have read gun debates here on U.S. message....

You also know that the average number of times a year a gun is used to save a life or stop a violent criminal attack is 1.6 million times a year...

So...you have to hide the truth...you only point out the problem with guns, knowing full well the numbers prove that guns save more lives than they take....

You guys....I would say mean things about you and your tactics...but it is Thanksgiving.....

Jesus wept....I very much hope these weren't the amazing, startling, groundbreaking stats you wanted me to see!!!

The US has the most liberal gun laws in the world, so if they were effective at saving lives, we would see that reflected in the statistics, no?

It is VERY easy to see how many lives guns save, and here it is:

So tell us what YOU see in this picture, Bill.

 

[Geaux4it]

Guns were beneficial in these cases. Everything else to get here is acceptable risk to be in the pool of the living

-Geaux



Arthur M. Lewis, 89, a decorated World War II veteran, was working at his jewelry business around 3 p.m. when a man with a gun entered the store. Lewis quickly grabbed the .38-caliber handgun he was carrying in his pocket. The would-be robber exchanged gunfire with Lewis before fleeing the scene. He was later found at a local hospital suffering from six gunshot wounds. After being treated, the assailant was arrested and now faces charges of armed robbery, felon in possession of a firearm, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon and armed burglary. Lewis’ left arm was grazed by a bullet, but he was otherwise unscathed. (The Palm Beach Post, Palm Beach, FL, 8/26/14)


Barbara Haley, 52, awoke to the sound of her barking dog around 2:40 a.m. She went to investigate and noticed a few items out of place, but when she did not see anyone, she returned to bed. Then, after a loud crash, she discovered an intruder had taken refuge in her bedroom closet. She retrieved her firearm and issued the verbal warning, “Don’t move!” before calling 911. She then pointed her .45-caliber handgun and kept the 24-year-old suspect at bay for 30 minutes until police arrived. (Omaha World Herald, Omaha, NE, 9/3/14)

Kim and Jim Fee, owners of Rob’s Quick Stop, were suspicious when a young man wearing a black bandanna over his face entered the store around 9:15 a.m. With firearm in hand, the masked robber rounded the counter and headed for the cash register. Jim immediately drew his .380-caliber handgun and aimed at the assailant. Surprised to find a pistol aimed back at him, the suspect fled. The suspect is reportedly still at large, and no injuries were sustained during the incident. (Kitsap Sun, Bremerton, WA, 8/22/14)

Shortly after 9 p.m., a gas station clerk exchanged gunfire with three masked, armed robbers using the firearm he legally carried, thus protecting a co-worker from harm. The clerk sustained injuries to the hip and leg that were determined to be non life-threatening. Two of the 20-year-old suspects were taken to the hospital and later died. The third suspect is reportedly still being sought by police, who are investigating other convenience store robberies in the area. (The Repository, Canton, OH, 9/14/14)

Despite having a protective order against him, Brandy Moreno’s ex-boyfriend shattered a glass door and entered her home just before 4 a.m. He attacked Moreno and stabbed her. Moreno’s 11-year-old daughter, Jayda, was home at the time of the incident. When she witnessed the attack, Jayda retrieved a handgun and fired twice. The ex-boyfriend fled the home, but was found just a few blocks away. Both he and Moreno were taken to a local hospital in serious condition. Their current conditions are reportedly unknown. “I think she’s a hero,” Moreno’s neighbor, Carolyn Marsee, said of Jayda’s actions. (The Oklahoman, Oklahoma City, OK, 9/25/14)

When a 20-year-old suspect entered a convenience store, confronted the owner and attempted to pistol whip him, the would-be victim retrieved his own gun, called 911 and kept the suspect inside the store until police could arrive. The suspect was arraigned on charges of armed robbery, and assault and battery with a dangerous weapon. (Cape Cod Times, Cape Cod, MA 9/12/14)

James Jackson, a 73-year-old Air Force veteran, was at home with his wife and grandson when he heard the sound of a picture window breaking. He armed himself with his Taurus .380 ACP handgun and investigated the noise. Encoutering a strange man inside his home, he fired a single round at the 29-year-old intruder. After being treated at the hospital for a bullet wound, the suspect was upgraded to fair condition. Reportedly the suspect has not yet been charged. Neither Jackson nor his family were harmed. (Omaha World Herald, Omaha, NE, 8/27/14)

In the early morning hours, a woman called 911 to report that a man had broken into her home. She confronted the intruder with a firearm causing him to flee before the police could arrive. Police are linking the event to other break-ins in the neighborhood and a suspect is being sought. The resident was not injured. (Foster’s Daily Democrat, Dover, NH, 9/10/14)

 

[Saigon]

Guns were beneficial in these cases. Everything else to get here is acceptable risk to be in the pool of the living

And the fact that we have just seen that the gun-related homicide rate in the US is often 100 TIMES that of similar countries doesn't alter that, right?

Does it ever occur to you that when people die in huge numbers - they are no longer in "the pool of the living", genius?

 

[Geaux4it]

Guns were beneficial in these cases. Everything else to get here is acceptable risk to be in the pool of the living

And the fact that we have just seen that the gun-related homicide rate in the US is often 100 TIMES that of similar countries doesn't alter that, right?

Does it ever occur to you that when people die in huge numbers - they are no longer in "the pool of the living", genius?

But the above were.. that's my point.... genius...

-Geaux

 

[Saigon]

Geaux -

Then let me ask - how is any risk acceptable which sees 100 times more Americans die of gunshot sounds that their counterparts in other countries?

Don't you like Americans?

 

[Derideo_Te]

The Founders made sure that the PEOPLE would have access to guns to ensure that when our government switched from being legitimate to illegitimate, we could do something about it.

The Founders also passed a law requiring that all firearms be registered.

 

[Saigon]

So...if I were to try to use liberal logic...since guns are the most effective means at stopping a rape....using liberal logic...that means that anti gunners want women to be raped.....right?

This is a VERY offensive comment, by the way, Bill. You should be throughly ashamed of it. Rape is not a great starting place for jokes or political advantage.

Since I know you were interested in my thoughts on your statistics, I offer this analogy:

There are two islands: Gun Island and Nogun Island. Both have a population of 1,000. On Gun Island there are guns for everyone, on NoGun Island, no one has a gun. Gun Island has 50 homicides per year. NoGun Island has 10.

On Gun Island, 10 crimes per year are prevented using guns. No crimes are prevented this way on NoGun Island.

So - which island is better off?

So yes - guns DO prevent crime. Absolutely. However, statistics show clearly and repeatedly that where there are guns, there are also deaths. They also show that any decrease in crime related to guns is massively overshadowed by the death toll.

If your figures were right, the US would have a crime rate MUCH lower then Germany, the UK or France. It doesn't.

What the US does have is a murder rate MUCH higher than those countries.

So - which country is better off?

 

[2aguy]

So yes - guns DO prevent crime. Absolutely. However, statistics show clearly and repeatedly that where there are guns, there are also deaths. They also show that any decrease in crime related to guns is massively overshadowed by the death toll.

Saigon...you are wrong....incredibly wrong....just for you....

...this time is just for you...the statistics on how many times guns are used to save lives and stop violent crime...keeping in mind, according to the FBI, there are about 8-9,000 gun murders a year....and about 80% of those occur in small, multi block areas in inner city areas of our major cities...usually controlled by democrats...having been controlled by democrats for decades....

again....the bottom column of the chart never wants to post so I give the name of the people or group doing the study, the year of the study and number of times they found guns were used to save lives and stop violent crime each year....

Okay...again...here are all the studies that actually give numbers for guns used to save lives and stop crimes taken from the table I provided from guncite.com...

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717

Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIa 1978...2,141,512

DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Ohio...1982...771,043

Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1991...777,153

Gallup...1993...1,621,377

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,682

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

And this from the clinton justice department...

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million
(Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text,PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
.(Lawrence Southwick, Jr.,Guns and Justifiable Homicide: Deterrence and Defense-concludes there are at least 400,000 "fewer violent crimes due to civilian self-defense use of guns" and at least "800,000 violent crimes are deterred each year because of gun ownership and use by civilians.")


From Obama's CDC...they spent 10 million dollars in 2013 for this study...

from slate.com an article on CDC obama's era...500-3 million defensive gun uses

Handguns suicides mass shootings deaths and self-defense Findings from a research report on gun violence.
7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.”
--------------------

"Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year."

As shown in the previous footnote, this study did not use a nationally representative population. To correct for this, Just Facts used the following equation:


As Kleck points out in his paper...



....can you answer the question...since none of these studies is lower than about 700,000 times a year....



I re ran the numbers with all of the studies and the average number of times guns are used to save lives and stop violent crime each year in the United States is 1.6 million....

8-9,000 gun murders a year vs. 1.6 million times, on average that a non law enforcement, non military, law abiding citizen stops a violent criminal attack or saves a life....

8-9,000 vs. 1.6 million....

Guns save far more lives than they take....even using the lowest numbers from anti gun biased studies.....

 

[2aguy]

You guys still never explain the level of gun deaths and other murder in countries that have absolute gun control...Mexico, Russia, almost all of Latin America....

again....

Each year in the U.S. we have about 8-9,000 gun murders each year, 80% of which are committed by gangs in democrat controlled cities...in very small areas...usually just a few blocks in size....the rest of the country is as peaceful as Europe.....

Law abiding gun owners...who own and carry their guns for self defense in the United States...use guns 1.6 million times to stop violent criminal attacks and save lives....

8-9,000 (as per FBI murder stats) vs. 1.6 million times...(as per 19 different studies, conducted by different researchers, both private and public, over a 40 year period....included in this the anti gun Clinton Justice Dept. study from 1994 which found 1.5 million times a gun is used to stop violent crime...and the anti gun obama administration CDC which spent 10 million dollars in 2013 to study this issue...and found the number between 500,000 and 3 million times a year)


I'll live with those numbers....because I won't say to 1.6 million people that they must quietly endure rape, beatings, stabbings, torture and murder....because of an irrational fear of the very tool that keeps them safe....

1.6 million is far more than gun murders, and gun accidents combined.....so guns are a positive, life saving tool in the hands of good people....

 

[2aguy]

So tell us what YOU see in this picture, Bill.

I see violence committed by gangs in inner cities....of 25 of the most violent cities in the United States, 24 of them are controlled by democrats and have been for decades....the 8-9,000 murders in the U.S. is in a population of 310 million...another point that is rarely pointed out....the inner city killing zones are very small, usually just a few blocks in size...and they skew our numbers of murders dramatically.....

So our problem isn't guns...since if you look at law abiding concealed carry permit holders...they commit less crime than the average citizen, and even less crime than sworn police officers...

That chart you love to post shows a problem in our inner cities that create fatherless families, where teenagers raise babies who turn into teenagers who raise babies, and the only adult role models are drug dealers and gang members....and the also the fact that democrats in control of these cities do not care to educate these poor, trapped individuals, or provide them with enough police protection....

The public schools in Chicago have high school graduation rates of around 50% in these neighborhoods. The city of Chicago is missing 2,000 police officers each day, 1000 because they refuse to spend the money to hire more, and another 1000 because of sick leave and vacations....they prefer to overwork the police they have by forcing them to work overtime, rather than hire new officers, and they make sure that the police cover the rich, white, democrat areas of the city, while the killing zones are left to the gang bangers....


We don't have a gun problem...we have a democrat, social policy problem, an education problem and a lack of police officer problem....

Go outside of these inner city, multi block, killing zones...and the United States is as peaceful as Europe...

Your chart is dumb Saigon because it doesn't show the actual problem....but it does make a nice way to mislead people who don't know what is really going on....

 

[2aguy]

Another interesting point...there is another thread here on U.S. message...it details the 50 most violent cities in the world....4 of those most violent cities are in the United States....all four are controlled by democrats...and have been for decades....again...this isn't reflected in that chart you love to post.....

 

[Derideo_Te]

You guys still never explain the level of gun deaths and other murder in countries that have absolute gun control...Mexico, Russia, almost all of Latin America....

again....

Each year in the U.S. we have about 8-9,000 gun murders each year, 80% of which are committed by gangs in democrat controlled cities...in very small areas...usually just a few blocks in size....the rest of the country is as peaceful as Europe.....

Law abiding gun owners...who own and carry their guns for self defense in the United States...use guns 1.6 million times to stop violent criminal attacks and save lives....

8-9,000 (as per FBI murder stats) vs. 1.6 million times...(as per 19 different studies, conducted by different researchers, both private and public, over a 40 year period....included in this the anti gun Clinton Justice Dept. study from 1994 which found 1.5 million times a gun is used to stop violent crime...and the anti gun obama administration CDC which spent 10 million dollars in 2013 to study this issue...and found the number between 500,000 and 3 million times a year)


I'll live with those numbers....because I won't say to 1.6 million people that they must quietly endure rape, beatings, stabbings, torture and murder....because of an irrational fear of the very tool that keeps them safe....

1.6 million is far more than gun murders, and gun accidents combined.....so guns are a positive, life saving tool in the hands of good people....

This is where the credibility of the gun fetishists goes off the rails.

You make this claim;

use guns 1.6 million times to stop violent criminal attacks and save lives....

And this one;

....the rest of the country is as peaceful as Europe.....

Which means that either there are 1.6 million attempted violent crimes in the area that you allege is as "peaceful as Europe" or the gun owners in those "very small areas...usually just a few blocks in size" are busier than the Wild West of yore.

I am going to assume you meant the latter. In which case where are the statistics demonstrating that all of these 1.6 million attempted violent crimes are clustered in those very small areas?

 

[Derideo_Te]

So tell us what YOU see in this picture, Bill.

I see violence committed by gangs in inner cities....of 25 of the most violent cities in the United States, 24 of them are controlled by democrats and have been for decades....the 8-9,000 murders in the U.S. is in a population of 310 million...another point that is rarely pointed out....the inner city killing zones are very small, usually just a few blocks in size...and they skew our numbers of murders dramatically.....

So our problem isn't guns...since if you look at law abiding concealed carry permit holders...they commit less crime than the average citizen, and even less crime than sworn police officers...

That chart you love to post shows a problem in our inner cities that create fatherless families, where teenagers raise babies who turn into teenagers who raise babies, and the only adult role models are drug dealers and gang members....and the also the fact that democrats in control of these cities do not care to educate these poor, trapped individuals, or provide them with enough police protection....

The public schools in Chicago have high school graduation rates of around 50% in these neighborhoods. The city of Chicago is missing 2,000 police officers each day, 1000 because they refuse to spend the money to hire more, and another 1000 because of sick leave and vacations....they prefer to overwork the police they have by forcing them to work overtime, rather than hire new officers, and they make sure that the police cover the rich, white, democrat areas of the city, while the killing zones are left to the gang bangers....


We don't have a gun problem...we have a democrat, social policy problem, an education problem and a lack of police officer problem....

Go outside of these inner city, multi block, killing zones...and the United States is as peaceful as Europe...

Your chart is dumb Saigon because it doesn't show the actual problem....but it does make a nice way to mislead people who don't know what is really going on....

Notice how you ignored the fact that hiring more cops means raising taxes. Something gun owners strongly oppose.

 

[2aguy]

I am going to assume you meant the latter. In which case where are the statistics demonstrating that all of these 1.6 million attempted violent crimes are clustered in those very small areas?

If you read the stats...80% of the gun murders take place in those areas....there is all sorts of crime all over the states...(in fact there are more aggravated assaults in Britain than there are here in the States...why....no one in Britain can defend themselves with a gun)....but in those other parts of the states...the law abiding citizens stop those violent attacks...while they are more likely to succeed in those high crime areas with little police protection...and those high crime areas are also areas where they have the strictest gun laws preventing regular people from using a gun to stop criminals...

So around the country, these crimes are stopped, and aren't completed...keeping in mind that there is still crime in Europe...and there are still vicitims in Europe...

Do you doubt the number of studies done over the 40 year period....? The fact that different researchers...many of them anti gun researchers have found those numbers....? From both private studies and government sponsored studies....( one by anti gun Clinton and another by anti gun obama)?

• 
  
• 
  
• 

 

[2aguy]

Notice how you ignored the fact that hiring more cops means raising taxes. Something gun owners strongly oppose.

How is that....? It doesn't mean raising taxes, it means spending tax money on those things the government is supposed to do...like law enforcment...the city of Chicago gets plenty of money through taxes...they just don't spend it on the things that are important....

Why is it with you guys that you believe that when you give greedy, corrupt politicians money...and they waste it, spend it on their friends to buy power and influence, or lose it......that that means we need to give these greedy, corrupt politicians more tax money to make up for the money they wasted, lost or spent on themselves....?

You liberal types think funny....if you had a relative, and you lent them money to buy food for their family and then you found out they spent it on drugs and alcohol, and threw a party for their friends..........would you think the solution was to give them more money....?


That is what you insist on doing with these corrupt politicians...and it makes no f*****g sense.....

 

[Derideo_Te]

Do you doubt the number of studies done over the 40 year period....?

Given that the NRA managed to impose a moratorium on gun studies that has only recently been lifted there is a pro-gun bias that has been apparent for some time now.

So yes, I do question their validity given those restrictions. Only when you have a level playing field can you truly have legitimate data. (Same rules apply to AGW, right?)

The gun death toll in this nation is directly tied to the fact that we essentially have unregulated access to guns. That is because the laws on the books are not enforced and the gun manufacturers and their mouthpiece throw a hissyfit whenever anyone wants to suggest even a modest attempt to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill.

None of the "defensive use of guns" would be necessary if this wasn't the case. Furthermore none of those "defensive uses" would prevent the accidental deaths of children or the suicides via firearms.

The problem this nation is facing, and yes, the FBI statistics prove it, is an alarming rise in the number of Sandy Hook type incidents each and every year.

Yes, we have a 2nd Amendment right to own guns and no one is advocating taking that away but we have a need to protect our children from this threat that is far more dire than Ebola and ISIS combined.

The Founding Fathers regulated firearms. We the People need to keep firearms out of the hands of the mentally ill. To do any less is a betrayal of the rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness of our children and grandchildren.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Notice how you ignored the fact that hiring more cops means raising taxes. Something gun owners strongly oppose.

How is that....? It doesn't mean raising taxes, it means spending tax money on those things the government is supposed to do...like law enforcment...the city of Chicago gets plenty of money through taxes...they just don't spend it on the things that are important....

Why is it with you guys that you believe that when you give greedy, corrupt politicians money...and they waste it, spend it on their friends to buy power and influence, or lose it......that that means we need to give these greedy, corrupt politicians more tax money to make up for the money they wasted, lost or spent on themselves....?

You liberal types think funny....if you had a relative, and you lent them money to buy food for their family and then you found out they spent it on drugs and alcohol, and threw a party for their friends..........would you think the solution was to give them more money....?


That is what you insist on doing with these corrupt politicians...and it makes no f*****g sense.....

Ironic that you accuse others of "thinking funny" when you believe that cities don't need to spend money on streets, lighting, sanitation, sewage, fire depts, inspections and every thing else that keeps it from falling apart but instead should just hire cops.