Will more guns create a safer society?

[2aguy]

Ironic that you accuse others of "thinking funny" when you believe that cities don't need to spend money on streets, lighting, sanitation, sewage, fire depts, inspections and every thing else that keeps it from falling apart but instead should just hire cops.

How is that like anything you believe I believe....Oh...I get it...you were educated in a government school controlled by the education wing of the democrat party.....

How is that....? It doesn't mean raising taxes, it means spending tax money on those things the government is supposed to do...like law enforcment...the city of Chicago gets plenty of money through taxes...they just don't spend it on the things that are important....

Law enforcement is ONE, of the things government is supposed to do...I didn't say or imply it was the only thing....please...try to overcome you democrat education...you will be better served if you do....

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[2aguy]

The gun death toll in this nation is directly tied to the fact that we essentially have unregulated access to guns.

You have no idea what you are talking about here...try buying a gun sometime...see how much regulation you have to go through...

 

[2aguy]

Given that the NRA managed to impose a moratorium on gun studies that has only recently been lifted there is a pro-gun bias that has been apparent for some time now.

I know...you were educated by the democrats...

Did you fail to see the 17 studies I posted....over 40 years...outside of the government and also from the anti gun Clinton Justice dept. study...and the 2013 anti gun study by obama and his CDC....


You don't want to accept the truth...part of that has to do with your democrat controlled education...and part of it probably has to do with an underdeveloped "rational" area of your brain....don't worry...you can fix that with work....

 

[2aguy]

. Furthermore none of those "defensive uses" would prevent the accidental deaths of children or the suicides via firearms.

Do you know how many kids are killed accidentally by guns each year...about 60-70...in a country of 310 million people....many of them shot in drive bys in democrat controlled inner cities....

And the one thing that could prevent gun accidents and children...gun safety education in conjunction with fire safety education in all grade schools....it is guys like you who fight it tooth and nail....

So who is keeping kids safe...the NRA and their Eddie Eagle gun safety program...or you guys who prevent gun safety in schools?

 

[2aguy]

The problem this nation is facing, and yes, the FBI statistics prove it, is an alarming rise in the number of Sandy Hook type incidents each and every year.

Sorry, they are not on the rise...the FBI study was flawed...including things that aren't school shootings....try doing some research not controlled by anti gun groups.....

 

[Derideo_Te]

Ironic that you accuse others of "thinking funny" when you believe that cities don't need to spend money on streets, lighting, sanitation, sewage, fire depts, inspections and every thing else that keeps it from falling apart but instead should just hire cops.

How is that like anything you believe I believe....Oh...I get it...you were educated in a government school controlled by the education wing of the democrat party.....

How is that....? It doesn't mean raising taxes, it means spending tax money on those things the government is supposed to do...like law enforcment...the city of Chicago gets plenty of money through taxes...they just don't spend it on the things that are important....

Law enforcement is ONE, of the things government is supposed to do...I didn't say or imply it was the only thing....please...try to overcome you democrat education...you will be better served if you do....

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My sincere condolences on the appalling mediocrity of your home schooling and your lack of any advanced education qualifications.

 

[2aguy]

My sincere condolences on the appalling mediocrity of your home schooling and your lack of any advanced education qualifications.

Sadly, I was also educated in a public school...but I overcame it....you should try to overcome it too...you wouldn't be following such silliness if you did....

 

[Derideo_Te]

Do you know how many kids are killed accidentally by guns each year...about 60-70..

The annual blood sacrifice of children on the NRA alter of gun fetishists is higher than you allege.

Gun deaths in children Statistics show firearms endanger kids despite NRA safety programs.

The overwhelming empirical evidence indicates that the presence of a gun makes children less safe; that programs such as Eddie Eagle are insufficient; and that measures the NRA and extreme gun advocates vehemently oppose, such as gun safes and smart guns, could dramatically reduce the death toll. Study after study unequivocally demonstrates that the prevalence of firearms directly increases the risk of youth homicide, suicide, and unintentional death. This effect is consistent across the United States and throughout the world. As a country, we should be judged by how well we protect our children. By any measure, we are failing horribly.​

The United States accounts for nearly 75 percent of all children murdered in the developed world. Children between the ages of 5 and 14 in the United States are 17 times more likely to be murdered by firearms than children in other industrialized nations.

Children from states where firearms are prevalent suffer from significantly higher rates of homicide, even after accounting for poverty, education, and urbanization. Astudy focusing on youth in North Carolina found that most of these deaths were caused by legally purchased handguns. A recent meta-analysis revealed that easy access to firearms doubled the risk of homicide and tripled the risk for suicide among all household members. Family violence is also much more likely to be lethal in homes where a firearm is present, placing children especially in danger. Murder-suicides are another major risk to children and are most likely to be committed with a gun.

Crucially, these deaths are not offset by defensive gun use. As one study found, for every time a gun is used legally in self-defense at home, there are “four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.” A study of adolescents in California found that there were 13 times as many threatening as self-defensive uses of guns. Of the defensive encounters, many arose in confrontations that became hostilebecause of the presence of a firearm.

In the overall suicide rate, the United States ranks roughly in the middle of the pack among industrialized nations. However, we are the exceptionwhen it comes to suicides among children between the ages of 5 and 14, with an overall rate twice the average of other developed nations. This stark difference is driven almost exclusively by a firearm-related suicide rate that is 10 times the average of other industrialized nations.

Adolescents living in states with higher gun prevalence suffer from higher rates of suicide. Adolescents who commit suicide are significantly more likely to live with firearms in their homes even after adjusting for various risk factors. The increased risk holds true regardless of how the firearm is stored or the type of gun. Firearms that are stored loaded have the highest risk, while safely stored guns (locked and unloaded) are much safer. Proper firearm storage can’t mitigate the entire risk of adolescent gun suicide, but it is a necessary step.

In terms of accidental fatalities, American children younger than 15 are nine timesmore likely to die by a gun accident than those in the rest of the developed world. Children living in states with higher levels of firearm availability also suffer fromsignificantly higher rates of unintentional gun deaths. Studies indicate the vast majority of these shootings involve either family or friends. These statistics indicate that parents’ ownership of a weapon is a significant risk not only to their own children but also to their children’s friends. As a report from the New York Times revealed, accidental killings are significantly underreported in the official data, often being classified as homicides or suicides rather than accidents. In several states there were twice as many accidental gun deaths than the official record indicated.



And yes, here is the evidence that NRA is responsible;

In contrast, the NRA claims that its safety programs work and are sufficient, despite significan tevidence to the contrary. The NRA ignores the overwhelming evidence that firearms make children less safe and continues to promote bills that forbid pediatricians from talking to parents about guns and safety measures.​

Toy guns, like teddy bears, have tomes of regulation dedicated to reducing the risk of fatal accidents, but real guns, the single device most responsible for accidental child fatalities, have exactly zero federal safety standards regulating their designs. In fact, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission has been forbidden by Congresssince 1976 to address gun safety, at the urging of the NRA. Gun manufacturers, under federal law, have since been able to choose gun designs without regard for safety or public health.​

 

[Derideo_Te]

the FBI study was flawed

 

[2aguy]

Again...how many children are killed each year in accidental gun deaths....? 60-70? Out of a country of 310 million.....get real....

 

[2aguy]

The flawed FBI study....

Crime Prevention Research Center - To subscribe to the Crime Research Prevention Center write us info crimeresearch.org

Hang on...that was a different flawed study...I'll get the FBI flawed study....

Here is a look at why the FBI study was wrong...

The incredibly flawed FBI study on active shooters CPRC original research - Crime Prevention Research Center

The figure using the FBI data pretty much summarizes their claim: from 2000 to 2013, fatalities from public shootings in the US have grown by an average annual rate of 16.4%. While the FBI reportprovides graphs illustrating “active shooting incidents,” not mass shootings, given the way that the report was written, the media has understandably interpreted the report as implying that mass public shootings have massively increased over time. To get a rough idea of the media coverage look at these headlines:

“Mass Shootings on the Rise, FBI says,”Wall Street Journal
“F.B.I. Confirms a Sharp Rise in Mass Shootings Since 2000,” New York Times
“FBI: Mass shooting incidents occurring more frequently,” CNN
“FBI study: Deaths in mass shootings increasing,” BBC
“Mass Shootings surge in U.S. over last seven years: FBI study,” New York Daily News
“FBI report shows increase in mass shootings since 2007,” Fox News
“Mass shootings in U.S. have tripled in recent years, FBI says,” Los Angeles Times
“Mass shooting incidents have doubled since 2000: FBI,” Washington Times
“FBI releases report examining mass shootings,” Washington Post

But instead of a 16 percent annual growth in fatalities, the actual growth rate is less than one percent and even that small growth rate is heavily dependent on just one year, 2012. The Obama administration’s FBI report obtained its result by manipulating the data: including non-mass shootings, missing mass shooting cases, and selectively picking the period of time that they examined. Part of the abstract of the CRPC’s latest report describes what the Obama administration did:

But the FBI made a number of subtle and misleading decisions as well as outright errors. Once these biases and mistakes are fixed, the annual growth rate in homicides is cut in half. When a longer period of time is examined (1977 through the first half of 2014), deaths from Mass Public Shootings show only a slight, statistically insignificant, increase – an annual increase of less than one percent.

The FBI’s misleadingly includes cases that aren’t mass shootings – cases where no one or only one person was killed in a public place. While the FBI assures people that it “captured the vast majority of incidents falling within the search criteria,” their report missed 20 shootings where at least two people were killed in a public place. Most of these missing cases took place early on, biasing their results towards showing an increase.

There you go......I guess obama wasn't happy that his 10 million dollar CDC study showed that guns are used 500,000-3 million times a year to save lives and stop violent crime....

 

[Derideo_Te]

The flawed FBI study....

Crime Prevention Research Center - To subscribe to the Crime Research Prevention Center write us info crimeresearch.org

Hang on...that was a different flawed study...I'll get the FBI flawed study....

Here is a look at why the FBI study was wrong...

The incredibly flawed FBI study on active shooters CPRC original research - Crime Prevention Research Center

The figure using the FBI data pretty much summarizes their claim: from 2000 to 2013, fatalities from public shootings in the US have grown by an average annual rate of 16.4%. While the FBI reportprovides graphs illustrating “active shooting incidents,” not mass shootings, given the way that the report was written, the media has understandably interpreted the report as implying that mass public shootings have massively increased over time. To get a rough idea of the media coverage look at these headlines:

“Mass Shootings on the Rise, FBI says,”Wall Street Journal
“F.B.I. Confirms a Sharp Rise in Mass Shootings Since 2000,” New York Times
“FBI: Mass shooting incidents occurring more frequently,” CNN
“FBI study: Deaths in mass shootings increasing,” BBC
“Mass Shootings surge in U.S. over last seven years: FBI study,” New York Daily News
“FBI report shows increase in mass shootings since 2007,” Fox News
“Mass shootings in U.S. have tripled in recent years, FBI says,” Los Angeles Times
“Mass shooting incidents have doubled since 2000: FBI,” Washington Times
“FBI releases report examining mass shootings,” Washington Post


But instead of a 16 percent annual growth in fatalities, the actual growth rate is less than one percent and even that small growth rate is heavily dependent on just one year, 2012. The Obama administration’s FBI report obtained its result by manipulating the data: including non-mass shootings, missing mass shooting cases, and selectively picking the period of time that they examined. Part of the abstract of the CRPC’s latest report describes what the Obama administration did:

But the FBI made a number of subtle and misleading decisions as well as outright errors. Once these biases and mistakes are fixed, the annual growth rate in homicides is cut in half. When a longer period of time is examined (1977 through the first half of 2014), deaths from Mass Public Shootings show only a slight, statistically insignificant, increase – an annual increase of less than one percent.

The FBI’s misleadingly includes cases that aren’t mass shootings – cases where no one or only one person was killed in a public place. While the FBI assures people that it “captured the vast majority of incidents falling within the search criteria,” their report missed 20 shootings where at least two people were killed in a public place. Most of these missing cases took place early on, biasing their results towards showing an increase.
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CPRC has zero credibility. There isn't a single article in there that doesn't align with the NRA and the gun manufacturers.

 

[2aguy]

This false FBI study helps to show why people get a false sense of gun crime in the states...this study, as shown, got all kinds of media attention....vs....when the studies show gun violence on the decline.....even as more people own and carry guns....

 

[Derideo_Te]

This false FBI study helps to show why people get a false sense of gun crime in the states...this study, as shown, got all kinds of media attention....vs....when the studies show gun violence on the decline.....even as more people own and carry guns....

Your gullibility is showing.

 

[2aguy]

Yes...all the anti gun sources are good, all the neutral or positive sources are bad....great tactic there.....

Notice....I listed 17 studies and they include several anti gun group studies...including Clinton's and obama's as well as the low ball figure from the National Crime Victimization Survey....and they all support the high number of times guns are used to save lives and stop violent crime....

Clinton's Justice Dept. study in 1994.....1.5 million defensive gun uses....

2013 Obama's CDC with 10 million dollars....500,000- 3 million defensive gun uses...

 

[2aguy]

Your gullibility is showing.

Really...all of the data I include vs.....you are gullible...great argument.....no wonder you guys have to resort to dragging the dead bodies in front of cameras....the Constitution and Bill of Rights defeat your goals, the actual statistics defeat you....common sense defeats you....

But those dead bodies...they sure do get headlines....does the blood wash off easily?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Your gullibility is showing.

Really...all of the data I include vs.....you are gullible...great argument.....no wonder you guys have to resort to dragging the dead bodies in front of cameras....the Constitution and Bill of Rights defeat your goals, the actual statistics defeat you....common sense defeats you....

But those dead bodies...they sure do get headlines....does the blood wash off easily?

You are accusing me of your own shortcomings because you are incapable of critical thinking about your own gun fetish.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Gun aficionados often frame the debate in terms of protection..."

Which of course is idiocy.

One cannot be compelled to ‘justify’ the exercising of a right as some sort of a ‘prerequisite’ to indeed do so, citizens have the right to possess firearms independent of any ‘justification’ or the opinion of others as to the appropriateness or wisdom of the act of possessing firearms.

 

[2aguy]

Happy Thanksgiving Clayton.

 

[2aguy]

Here is an anti gun piece...with some interesting points accidentally made about guns in France....I will of course point those out...

France Where fear and taboo control guns more than laws - CNN.com

The laws are so strict they cannot be efficiently implemented. That is why, mostly for bureaucratic reasons, more than 16 million weapons are unaccounted for and kept illegally, according to Small Arms Survey, mostly by otherwise law-abiding French citizens. Still, per capita, our murder rate is a fraction of the American one.

This doesn't mean France is not growing more violent. Its underworld is changing and expanding fast. Gangsters now use RPGs [rocket-propelled grenades] and bazookas to attack bank trucks, and military grade fully automatic weapons to kill their guards.

Drug dealers execute their competitors in Marseille with dreadful impunity. The Corsican mob, or its independent networks have killed 20 people in the island in a year. Thousands of military grade weapons are flowing now in western Europe, the remnants of the recent Balkan wars, exported by corrupt officials all around the former eastern block.

A few blocks from the house where I first saw my first gun, teenage dealers stash Kalashnikovs in the basements of project buildings. They are still rarely used, and to most French people, they belong in a parallel world. For now.

Once they cross that line of gun violence....when the criminals realize the power to control their victims....then the people in Europe will suffer because only the dangerous, violent criminals will have guns....then their crime rate will spike....