World's largest solar plant now online

[HenryBHough]

I call you a woman because Elektra was a woman. Electra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All three boilers at Ivanpah have been operating and putting energy into the grid since late 2013.

No doubt rivaling the performance of an Energizer bunny on a moderately decent day.

 

[westwall]

Does Ivanpah produce as much GHGs as a plant with equivalent capacity using any form of fossil fuel?

No?

End of debate.

To borrow a phrase from you, bullshit. It created a tremendous amount of GHG's to produce it all and it is so inefficient that it was built as a nat gas powerplant with solar thrown in.

Good luck with your claims, but they are BS.

It most certainly is (or should be) the end of the debate. Ivanpah was built to produce electricity with as little GHG emission as possible. It does just that. An exceptional amount of GHGs was NOT produced manufacturing the plant and what GHG's were produced, will very quickly be compensated by the plant's normal operation.

The natural gas fired boilers the plant includes are not there to compensate for any inefficiencies. The gas boilers do not come anywhere near the capacity of the solar side. So, every claim you just made was factually in error.

Ivanpah is doing what it was designed to do. End of debate.

Yeah, sure...end of debate. Of course you can't come up with a shred of evidence to support your BS so of course you don't dare talk about it. What a fraud. Just a complete unethical, dishonest fraud.

Go away, you're useless.

 

[westwall]

I call you a woman because Elektra was a woman. Electra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All three boilers at Ivanpah have been operating and putting energy into the grid since late 2013.

If the boilers are operating it's because they are being fired by nat gas. As I have stated, I have flown over the place three times and not once has the solar been operational.

 

[elektra]

I call you a woman because Elektra was a woman. Electra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All three boilers at Ivanpah have been operating and putting energy into the grid since late 2013.

Wikipedia is not a source, see why/

The boilers are working, prove it, post something other than the same regurgitated press release.

Practically Zero from all[/B] CSP is zero, all is not just Ivanpah.
Is Ivanpah Online? | Environment

January ISO data shows practically no CSP output during nearly all days in January 2014, meaning that neither SEGS nor Ivanpah were what we would call operational.

 

[Abraham3]

If you want to reject Elektra as a female character of the Greek plays (both Sophocles' and Euripides') you'll need to go a lot further back than an attack on Wikipedia. I think anyone that's been through even a couple years of college would recognize Elektra. If you never heard of her when you chose the nickname... well, that's just funny. Got that Skooks? This is FUNNY.

Ivanpah officially became operational on 13 February. There is nothing systemically wrong with the plant or its design. The plant is producing electricity and will likely continue to do so for some time. As I stated earlier, the plant is doing what it was designed to do. End of debate. Your desperate deprecations are just that.

Look, I'm not singing that the plant was some enormous success. It produces electricity with virtually no GHG emissions. That's great, but we need more and the relative cost of solar thermal is high. Right now it's looking as if solar thermal is not the the road to take. Imagine what we could do with five square miles of desert covered in photovoltaics.

 

[HenryBHough]

Nothing produces energy like a scam on steroids.

 

[elektra]

If you want to reject Elektra as a female character of the Greek plays (both Sophocles' and Euripides') you'll need to go a lot further back than an attack on Wikipedia. I think anyone that's been through even a couple years of college would recognize Elektra. If you never heard of her when you chose the nickname... well, that's just funny. Got that Skooks? This is FUNNY.

Ivanpah officially became operational on 13 February. There is nothing systemically wrong with the plant or its design. The plant is producing electricity and will likely continue to do so for some time. As I stated earlier, the plant is doing what it was designed to do. End of debate. Your desperate deprecations are just that.

Look, I'm not singing that the plant was some enormous success. It produces electricity with virtually no GHG emissions. That's great, but we need more and the relative cost of solar thermal is high. Right now it's looking as if solar thermal is not the the road to take. Imagine what we could do with five square miles of desert covered in photovoltaics.

Prove it produces electricity, I have been posting reports from California ISO. Which Abraham ignores.

That is the California Independent System Operators, which is those people who control power on the Grid.

What does Abraham post, his mouth and a news release from Obama's mouth, the Energy Secretary who dedicated Ivanpah on the 13th.

Abraham is a perfect example of stooge, all the government has to do is release a press release saying anything they like, and people like Abraham believe it.

2.2 Billion dollars is proportion to the amount of GHG's released in the manufacture of Ivanpah, 17 square miles of mirrors, computers, cement, building, 17 square miles of raw material turned into a hunk of junk that delivers a whooping 30 mwh.

I can not imagine how anyone can look at that huge waste of materials and not realize that GHG's were not emitted?

Its complete denial.

anyhow, once again, more reports from February showing Abraham only need read a press release, or Abraham needs only to go to wikipedia, and Abraham believes, literally blindly.

KW08*|*California sets yet another peak solar output record; sporadic contributions from Ivanpah*-*SolarServer

Ivanpah off to a rocky start

Despite plant owner NRG stating that all three units were connected to the grid on February 13th, 2014, one or more units at the plant have remained offline on all but one day, and output remains relatively low.

California ISO's list of curtailed units shows a puzzling picture. All three units remain on the “curtailed and non-operational” list, but the units going off and on continue to change. On February 16th, 2014 two units were listed as totally off-line, and on February 15th, 2014 California ISO reported no CSP output from any plant.

On February 14th, 2014 only partial curtailments were listed for all three units, however grid-wide CSP output did not exceed 170 MW at any time, and CSP generated only 750 megawatt-hours (MWh) during the day.

During the month of January 2014, Ivanpah and the state's other CSP plants produced very little to no power most days of the month. This led to speculations that in addition to Ivanpah being offline, the Solar Electric Generating Systems, the world's first large-scale CSP plants, had been taken offline for maintenance.

Anyhow, no problem 2.2 Billion dollars worth of raw materials gone, and at that, its the last CSP to be built, already Ivanpah is obsolete.

All that really mattered for the Green Energy the Sky is Falling Nuts, is that they built something, waste as much money as possible, so that when the next President comes along, the USA is so broke and in debt, we will never be able to build another power plant.

America's decline is what they desire.

Next time you see the price of food, thank yourselves for building wasteful power plants that produce nothing of significance.

30 mwh delivered at a cost of 2.2 Billion dollars.

Read what these jerks think about the USA, our history, who we are, and its easy to see why they love an Albatross strapped to our backs.

 

[elektra]

Abraham has yet to quote and address one of my posts, that is because Abraham knows Abraham is wrong and is simply here to make sure that not one word telling the truth goes unanswered with a lie.

Take a good look, in 5 pages Abraham has not quoted and offered even one iota of proof, Abraham simply parrots, it works, it works, it works, even despite California's Grid Operators reporting otherwise.

 

[Abraham3]

When I can talk to someone who knows where their own nick comes from, I might feel a little more responsibility for that sort of thing. I didn't bring up Ivanpah. I have no obligation to support this pointless thread. Ivanpah is operational, it is performing as it was designed to perform and that is to produce electricity with vastly less GHG output. As far as I'm concerned, that is the end of this debate. If you want to keep flapping your yap about it, flap at the fucking wall. You'll get just as much satisfaction.

 

[elektra]

When I can talk to someone who knows where their own nick comes from, I might feel a little more responsibility for that sort of thing. I didn't bring up Ivanpah. I have no obligation to support this pointless thread. Ivanpah is operational, it is performing as it was designed to perform and that is to produce electricity with vastly less GHG output. As far as I'm concerned, that is the end of this debate. If you want to keep flapping your yap about it, flap at the fucking wall. You'll get just as much satisfaction.

Abraham is quick to duck and hide validating all my posts.

Again Abraham parrots the lie.

 

[jc456]

Ivanpah will produce orders of magnitude less GHG emissions than would any fossil fuel source with the same capacity. That is - truly - all that matters.

you might be wasting your time. deniers worship throwing up carbon into the atmosphere. Their philosophy of "I want it all now, future generations be damned" is inviolable.

Who's a denier? I think it is you!

 

[jc456]

When I can talk to someone who knows where their own nick comes from, I might feel a little more responsibility for that sort of thing. I didn't bring up Ivanpah. I have no obligation to support this pointless thread. Ivanpah is operational, it is performing as it was designed to perform and that is to produce electricity with vastly less GHG output. As far as I'm concerned, that is the end of this debate. If you want to keep flapping your yap about it, flap at the fucking wall. You'll get just as much satisfaction.

Huh? Nice, no facts, zero, I read all of the posts and still no graph or chart to show where Ivanhoe produced any power. Let's see those reports that you so willingly wished to argue existed. Let's see them, don't skirt your obligation on here. You posted you knew, let's see that evidence as requested by elektra.

 

[Abraham3]

I've already posted two different statements that say the plant is operating. If you or anyone else (male or female) thinks different, it's now THEIR turn to post some findings.

 

[polarbear]

When I can talk to someone who knows where their own nick comes from, I might feel a little more responsibility for that sort of thing. I didn't bring up Ivanpah. I have no obligation to support this pointless thread. Ivanpah is operational, it is performing as it was designed to perform and that is to produce electricity with vastly less GHG output. As far as I'm concerned, that is the end of this debate. If you want to keep flapping your yap about it, flap at the fucking wall. You'll get just as much satisfaction.

Huh? Nice, no facts, zero, I read all of the posts and still no graph or chart to show where Ivanhoe produced any power. Let's see those reports that you so willingly wished to argue existed. Let's see them, don't skirt your obligation on here. You posted you knew, let's see that evidence as requested by elektra.

That`s right. Nothing but nice fat zeros not just from prophet Abraham the 3.rd. Take a good look at the control panel of Unit #3:

The Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System - In Focus - The Atlantic

A monitor in the control room of the Ivanpah SEGS displays steam cycle data, on February 27, 2014.

Feedwaterflow = 0
Main steam flow =0
Turbine (G) output = 0

And "Brightsource" said on their web page:
World?s largest solar thermal plant now fully operational

February 17, 2014
NRG announced last week that each of the plant's three units is now supplying electricity to California’s grid.

Maybe so, but 10 days later it sure as shit produced no power, when that picture was taken in this control room:

Workers monitor plant operations in the control room of the Ivanpah SEGS on February 27, 2014 in the Mojave Desert in California

All they "produced" was some hot air and a little bit of steam, 528 degF at 44 psig with superheater unit #3.

 

[Dot Com]

If you want to reject Elektra as a female character of the Greek plays (both Sophocles' and Euripides') you'll need to go a lot further back than an attack on Wikipedia. I think anyone that's been through even a couple years of college would recognize Elektra. If you never heard of her when you chose the nickname... well, that's just funny. Got that Skooks? This is FUNNY.

Ivanpah officially became operational on 13 February. There is nothing systemically wrong with the plant or its design. The plant is producing electricity and will likely continue to do so for some time. As I stated earlier, the plant is doing what it was designed to do. End of debate. Your desperate deprecations are just that.

Look, I'm not singing that the plant was some enormous success. It produces electricity with virtually no GHG emissions. That's great, but we need more and the relative cost of solar thermal is high. Right now it's looking as if solar thermal is not the the road to take. Imagine what we could do with five square miles of desert covered in photovoltaics.

using logic w/ deniers? Good luck.

 

[elektra]

When I can talk to someone who knows where their own nick comes from, I might feel a little more responsibility for that sort of thing. I didn't bring up Ivanpah. I have no obligation to support this pointless thread. Ivanpah is operational, it is performing as it was designed to perform and that is to produce electricity with vastly less GHG output. As far as I'm concerned, that is the end of this debate. If you want to keep flapping your yap about it, flap at the fucking wall. You'll get just as much satisfaction.

I've already posted two different statements that say the plant is operating. If you or anyone else (male or female) thinks different, it's now THEIR turn to post some findings.

Look folks, Abraham lied twice in this post.

1st Abraham thinks wikipedia and press releases are facts
2nd, Abraham said he was done with this debate but here he is again, parroting his post.

Yes the debate is ended, this is Abraham stomping his feet like an immature man, "I said so, I said so!".

Take note, I did not compare Abraham to a child, no need to insult children, further Abraham's behavior and posts are simply irrational and moronic.

 

[elektra]

I guess AbraHAM does not have the intellect (brains abraHAM) to comprehend responses to AbraHAMs previous posts in this thread.

I've already posted two different statements that say the plant is operating. If you or anyone else (male or female) thinks different, it's now THEIR turn to post some findings.

So is it operating or not. There seems to be some contention on this thread that this site is not up. Problems have been encountered. Have you posted that yet?

The site is not operating. As far as the problems at Ivanpah, the owners have been silent,
Google is one of the owners, I imagine Google will not link to news stories about the problems.

Either way, this is the very last CSP of this type that will ever be built. It has proven itself to be a failure.

The cost is prohibitive, this one was built because Obama gave 1.6$ billion to the project.

Further, you must take public land, land that is suppose to be ours forever, and give it to the private corporations. not many Corporations have the cash to buy 17 square miles.

The cost to the environment is too great.

The amount of water is extreme, and that its in the desert, and california is in another drought season, which sometimes lasts as long as 7 years.

And with an unproven capacity factor of 31.7%, it will not provide a miniscule amount of electricity needed to simply pump water, which in California is 80% of our electrical usage (agriculture and industry use 90% of the water in California).

You've got an amazing penchant for posting falsehoods.

— All Three Units of 392 megawatt Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System Now Delivering Solar Power to California’s Electric Grid —

World?s Largest Solar Thermal Power Project at Ivanpah Achieves Commercial Operation

Solar thermal has not failed. The plant is doing precisely what it was built to do at precisely the predicted cost. No more solar thermal plants will get built for the foreseeable future because the cost of photovoltaic and natural gas have fallen. The dropping cost of PV has made the idea of distributed power generation far more feasible. We're all going to start putting PV panels on our roofs.

The government did not give 1.6 billion for the construction of the plant. They gave a loan guarantee on which they have not had to pay out one cent. They DID give Bright Source a tax credit because the plant is not nuclear and does not emit GHGs. This will total about $800 million over the next two years.

The land used by Ivanpah - in fact the public land available for use by wind and solar concerns (and these are rights of way vice leases since no mineral extraction is performed - the land could be restored to its original conditions simply by removing the installed equipment) - are less than 3% of the land available for lease for oil, coal, gas and mineral extraction. http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40806.pdf

The amount of water used by Ivanpah is less than a nearby golf course uses to water two of its holes. Water is NOT used to cool the working fluid. The only water used at the plant is keeping the mirrors clean.

I don't like being called a liar missy. Put up or shut up, as the saying goes. I want to know specifically what statements of mine you believe were lies and the evidence that makes you think so. And let me say up front that I don't call mistakes, lies; else I would have had more than a few additional comments for you along the way.

ps: if you don't like my absences, don't get involved with people who still work for a living.

You are either a complete idiot or a liar. You go to Brightsource, the company covering up the inoperation of Ivanpah? You post a press release? Which I already pointed out was false, in light of the dedication ceremony by Energy Secretary Moniz on the same exact day? On the 13th its dedicated and declared operational while Obamas man Moniz is there.

Energy Secretary Moniz Dedicates World?s Largest Concentrating Solar Power Project | Department of Energy



How do I know its not operational?

California ISO - Todays Outlook



20 mwh of total Solar, not just CSP, this includes photovoltaic.

Given Ivanpah is only capable of 105 mwh and this figure include all solar, what is going on?

Is Ivanpah Online? | CleanTechnica

To further complicate matters, January ISO data shows practically no CSP output during nearly all days in January 2014, meaning that neither SEGS nor Ivanpah were what we would call operational.

Abraham is looking at a Press Release by the owner of Ivanpah for power output?

Elektra is looking at data put out by the California Grid Operators.

Which is more accurate, a press release from the owners (Google, Brightsource, NRG) the day the President sends the Energy Secretary to Ivanpah to dedicate it, or the Data from the grid operators?

Of course, I already posted this, in this thread, which Abraham ignores for three days, and then Abraham comes back and says I am a liar and posts a press release like this information is not in this thread already.

Is Ivanpah Online? | CleanTechnica

Operational or Non-operational?
California ISO does provide more clues to this mystery. The organization keeps a list of “curtailed and non-operational” power plants, and Ivanpah’s three units have been on this list for months. During four of the first five days of February, at least one unit was listed as fully curtailed or non-operational, and the other two partially curtailed.

The position of the three units have switched on this list. On February 2nd, it was unit 2 that was fully off-line, with the other two partially restricted; and on February 3rd, 4th, and 5th, unit 3 was fully off-line. On February 1st, all three units are listed as only partially “curtailed or non-operational.”

So in the end, we simply don’t know how much power is being produced by Ivanpah at this time. It is likely that as the units ramp up for full production, one or the other is being taken off-line for technical tweaking.

I’m willing to wager that construction contractor Bechtel and Brightsource are making one Hell of an effort to get everything up and running for next week, when Energy Secretary Ernie Moniz flies out from DC for the big unveiling. Around February 13th, 2014 we are likely to see a big jump in solar power output in California

If Abraham easily misses facts in this thread, is Abraham able to find facts anywhere else?

 

[jc456]

I've already posted two different statements that say the plant is operating. If you or anyone else (male or female) thinks different, it's now THEIR turn to post some findings.

You're rich. Nice to see you know nothing. BTW since you most likely don't know, today is March 18th 2014 and the plant still most likely isn't operating. But you know it is because you know. A pigeon came down from high and stated it was so, so it is so! LOL

 

[Abraham3]

I've already posted two different statements that say the plant is operating. If you or anyone else (male or female) thinks different, it's now THEIR turn to post some findings.

You're rich. Nice to see you know nothing. BTW since you most likely don't know, today is March 18th 2014 and the plant still most likely isn't operating. But you know it is because you know. A pigeon came down from high and stated it was so, so it is so! LOL

Are you familiar with the concept of EVIDENCE?

Ivanpah, World's Largest Solar Thermal Plant, Is Online | EarthTechling

"NRG Energy made it official early today, announcing that the Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System was “operational and delivering solar electricity to California customers.” " 13 February, 2014

NRG Energy | Investor Relations | News Release

"News Release

World’s Largest Solar Thermal Power Project at Ivanpah Achieves Commercial Operation
- All Three Units of 392 megawatt Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System Now Delivering Solar Power to California’s Electric Grid -

NIPTON, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb. 13, 2014-- NRG Energy, Inc. (NYSE:NRG), through its wholly owned subsidiary NRG Solar, LLC, today announced that the Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System is now operational and delivering solar electricity to California customers. At full capacity, the facility’s trio of 450-foot high towers produces a gross total of 392 megawatts (MW) of solar power, enough electricity to provide 140,000 California homes with clean energy and avoid 400,000 metric tons of carbon dioxide per year, equal to removing 72,000 vehicles off the road."

If you know of some sort of reliable source that says something different, I'm sure we'd all love to hear it. Or even read it.

 

[elektra]

I guess AbraHAM does not have the intellect (brains abraHAM) to comprehend responses to AbraHAMs previous posts in this thread.

I've already posted two different statements that say the plant is operating. If you or anyone else (male or female) thinks different, it's now THEIR turn to post some findings.

You are either a complete idiot or a liar. You go to Brightsource, the company covering up the inoperation of Ivanpah? You post a press release? Which I already pointed out was false, in light of the dedication ceremony by Energy Secretary Moniz on the same exact day? On the 13th its dedicated and declared operational while Obamas man Moniz is there.

Energy Secretary Moniz Dedicates World?s Largest Concentrating Solar Power Project | Department of Energy



How do I know its not operational?

California ISO - Todays Outlook



20 mwh of total Solar, not just CSP, this includes photovoltaic.

Given Ivanpah is only capable of 105 mwh and this figure include all solar, what is going on?

Is Ivanpah Online? | CleanTechnica






Abraham is looking at a Press Release by the owner of Ivanpah for power output?

Elektra is looking at data put out by the California Grid Operators.

Which is more accurate, a press release from the owners (Google, Brightsource, NRG) the day the President sends the Energy Secretary to Ivanpah to dedicate it, or the Data from the grid operators?

Of course, I already posted this, in this thread, which Abraham ignores for three days, and then Abraham comes back and says I am a liar and posts a press release like this information is not in this thread already.

Is Ivanpah Online? | CleanTechnica

Operational or Non-operational?
California ISO does provide more clues to this mystery. The organization keeps a list of “curtailed and non-operational” power plants, and Ivanpah’s three units have been on this list for months. During four of the first five days of February, at least one unit was listed as fully curtailed or non-operational, and the other two partially curtailed.

The position of the three units have switched on this list. On February 2nd, it was unit 2 that was fully off-line, with the other two partially restricted; and on February 3rd, 4th, and 5th, unit 3 was fully off-line. On February 1st, all three units are listed as only partially “curtailed or non-operational.”

So in the end, we simply don’t know how much power is being produced by Ivanpah at this time. It is likely that as the units ramp up for full production, one or the other is being taken off-line for technical tweaking.

I’m willing to wager that construction contractor Bechtel and Brightsource are making one Hell of an effort to get everything up and running for next week, when Energy Secretary Ernie Moniz flies out from DC for the big unveiling. Around February 13th, 2014 we are likely to see a big jump in solar power output in California

If Abraham easily misses facts in this thread, is Abraham able to find facts anywhere else?

I've already posted two different statements that say the plant is operating. If you or anyone else (male or female) thinks different, it's now THEIR turn to post some findings.

You're rich. Nice to see you know nothing. BTW since you most likely don't know, today is March 18th 2014 and the plant still most likely isn't operating. But you know it is because you know. A pigeon came down from high and stated it was so, so it is so! LOL

Are you familiar with the concept of EVIDENCE?

Ivanpah, World's Largest Solar Thermal Plant, Is Online | EarthTechling

"NRG Energy made it official early today, announcing that the Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System was “operational and delivering solar electricity to California customers.” " 13 February, 2014

NRG Energy | Investor Relations | News Release

"News Release

World’s Largest Solar Thermal Power Project at Ivanpah Achieves Commercial Operation
- All Three Units of 392 megawatt Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System Now Delivering Solar Power to California’s Electric Grid -

NIPTON, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb. 13, 2014-- NRG Energy, Inc. (NYSE:NRG), through its wholly owned subsidiary NRG Solar, LLC, today announced that the Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System is now operational and delivering solar electricity to California customers. At full capacity, the facility’s trio of 450-foot high towers produces a gross total of 392 megawatts (MW) of solar power, enough electricity to provide 140,000 California homes with clean energy and avoid 400,000 metric tons of carbon dioxide per year, equal to removing 72,000 vehicles off the road."

If you know of some sort of reliable source that says something different, I'm sure we'd all love to hear it. Or even read it.

How about data directly from the grid.

See how the parrot keeps going back to a press release.