Yet another school shooting

Thoughts and Prayers......

Yes Thoughts and Prayers the same as the # Leftists do every time there is an Islamist Terror attack, you offer Thoughts and Prayers and nothing else eg. total banning of importing more Islamics to Western nations, yet whenever there is a school shooting you demand that 99% of the law abiding Americans who have firearms should be punished for a random maniac who has done a shooting massacre.
We'll, it looks like the domestic terrorists in this country are winning the battle from the imported one's in statistical mass shootings. Therefore, there hasn't been a lot of need for thoughts and prayers from Leftists when it comes to Islamic terrorist attacks in this country when it comes to mass shootings.

You seem to be confusing the argument with Islamic terrorist bombing attacks with domestic mass murder with guns? Not sure how "thoughts and prayers" can be useful for both, when one of them has a clear common sense solution?
And what is that solution?

Gun bans....lol
"Common sense..." lol

Different shooting but the same BS talking points
 
Are you that intellectually bankrupt, that you cannot look up statistics of mass shootings with AR's in this country, as opposed to other countries, which have a ban on these type weapons?

Hmm, I can look up the stats and see they don't support your argument. You always use the qualifier "compared to other countries" but as it stands, just a handful of mass murders are carried out with an AR style assault weapon.

1. America is relatively safe, and the trend is toward becoming safer.

  • According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, violent crime has been declining steadily since the early 1990s.
  • The 2011 homicide rate was almost half of the rate in 1991, and according to Pew Research, the 2013 gun-related death rate was half of the rate in 1993.
  • The number of non-fatal firearm crimes committed in 2011 was one-sixth the number committed in 1993.
  • In the past few years, there have been minor increases in certain types of violent crimes, mainly in large metropolitan areas. However, these increases are nowhere near those seen in the 1990s and are largely related to gang activity.
  • It should be remembered that it takes at least three to five years of data to show true trend lines. It appears that the collective homicide toll for America’s 50 largest cities decreased modestly in 2017 after two consecutive years of increases.
2. The principal public safety concerns are suicides and illegally owned handguns.

  • According to the Pew Research Center, almost two-thirds of America’s annual gun deaths are suicides. Since 1981, when the Centers for Disease Control began publishing data, gun suicides have outnumbered gun homicides. In 2010 alone, 19,392 Americans used guns to kill themselves.
  • Most gun-related crimes are carried out with illegally owned firearms—as much as 80 percent according to some estimates.
  • The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports prove that the overwhelming majority of gun-related homicides are perpetrated with handguns, with rifles of any kind accounting for less than 3 percent of gun-related homicides. In 2013, 5,782 murders were committed by killers who used a handgun, compared to 285 committed by killers who used a rifle. The same holds true for 2012 (6,404 to 298); 2011 (6,251 to 332); 2010 (6,115 to 367); and 2009 (6,501 to 351).
  • More people are stabbed to death every year than are murdered with rifles.
  • A person is more likely to be bludgeoned to death with a blunt object or beaten to death with hands and feet than to be murdered with a rifle.
3. A small number of factors significantly increase the likelihood that a person will be a victim of a gun-related homicide.

  • Where do you live? Murders in the United States are very concentrated. According to the Crime Prevention Research Center, over 50 percent of murders occur in 2 percent of the nation’s 3,142 counties. Moreover, gun-related homicides are heavily concentrated in certain neighborhoods within those counties: 54 percent of U.S. counties had zero murders in 2014.
  • Who is your partner? According to a recent scholarly article in the Hastings Law Journal, people recently or currently involved in an abusive intimate relationship are much more likely to be victims of gun-related homicide than is the rest of the population, especially if the abuser possesses firearms.
  • Are you in a gang? According to the Department of Justice’s National Gang Center, particularly in urban areas, significant percentages of gun-related homicides (15 percent to 33 percent) are linked with gang and drug activity. Gang-related homicides are more likely to involve firearms than non-gang-related homicides are.
  • Are you a male between 15 and 34? The majority of standard gun murder victims are men between the ages of 15 and 34. Although black men make up roughly 7 percent of the population, they account for almost two-thirds of gun murder victims every year.
  • Women and children are more likely to be the victims of mass shootings and homicide-suicide shootings than they are to be the victims of a “typical” gun-related homicide.
4. The perpetration of gun-related murders is often carried out by predictable people.

5. Higher rates of gun ownership are not associated with higher rates of violent crime.

  • Switzerland and Israel have much higher gun ownership rates than the United States but experience far fewer homicides and have much lower violent crime rates than many European nations with strict gun control laws.
    • While some will argue that the guns carried by Swiss and Israeli citizens are technically “owned” by the government in most cases, this does little to negate the fact that many citizens in those countries have ready access to firearms.
  • Canada is ranked 12th in the world for the number of civilian-owned guns per capita and reports one of the world’s lower homicide rates—but even then, some provinces have higher homicide rates than U.S. states with less restrictive laws and higher rates of gun ownership have.
  • Although many gun control advocates have noted that “right-to-carry” states tend to experience slight increases in violent crime, other studies have noted the opposite effect.
  • Higher rates of concealed carry permit holders are even more strongly associated with reduction in violent crime than are “right-to-carry” states. The probable reason for this is that “right-to-carry” studies often include “open carry” states, which have not been shown to correlate with more people actually carrying or even owning firearms. Rates of concealed carry permit holders are better indicators of the number of people who actually possess and carry firearms within a given population.
  • Further, as with most correlations, there are many other factors that can account for increases in concealed carry permits—including the fact that people who live in already dangerous neighborhoods seek out means of self-defense. The Huffington Post noted that the rate of concealed carry permit requests in Chicago has soared in recent years after the city loosened restrictions, in large part, according to the Chicago Tribune, because law-abiding residents are increasingly worried about rising rates of violent crime in the city.
  • The rate of gun ownership is higher among whites than it is among African-Americans, but the murder rate among African-Americans is significantly higher than the rate among whites.
  • Similarly, the rate of gun ownership is higher in rural areas than in urban areas, but urban areas experience higher murder rates.
6. There is no clear relationship between strict gun control legislation and homicide or violent crime rates.

  • The Brady Campaign Against Gun Violence ironically makes this clear with its ratings for states based on gun laws. “Gun freedom” states that score poorly, like New Hampshire, Vermont, Idaho, and Oregon, have some of the lowest homicide rates. Conversely, “gun-control-loving” states that received high scores, like Maryland and Illinois, experience some of the nation’s highest homicide rates.
  • The Crime Prevention Research Center notes that, if anything, the data indicate that countries with high rates of gun ownership tend to have lower homicide rates—but this is only a correlation, and many factors do not necessarily support a conclusion that high rates of gun ownership cause the low rates of homicide.
  • Homicide and firearm homicide rates in Great Britain spiked in the years immediately following the imposition of severe gun control measures, despite the fact that most developed countries continued to experience a downward trend in these rates. This is also pointed out by noted criminologist John Lott in his book “The War on Guns.”
  • Similarly, Ireland’s homicide rates spiked in the years immediately following the country’s 1972 gun confiscation legislation.
  • Australia’s National Firearms Act appears to have had little effect on suicide and homicide rates, which were falling before the law was enacted and continued to decline at a statistically unremarkable rate compared to worldwide trends.
  • According to research compiled by John Lott and highlighted in his book “The War on Guns,” Australia’s armed and unarmed robbery rates both increased markedly in the five years immediately following the National Firearms Act, despite the general downward trend experienced by other developed countries.
  • Great Britain has some of the strictest gun control laws in the developed world, but the violent crime rate for homicide, rape, burglary, and aggravated assault is much higher than that in the U.S. Further, approximately 60 percent of burglaries in Great Britain occur while residents are home, compared to just 13 percent in the U.S., and British burglars admit to targeting occupied residences because they are more likely to find wallets and purses.
  • It is difficult to compare homicide and firearm-related murder rates across international borders because countries use different methods to determine which deaths “count” for purposes of violent crime. For example, since 1967, Great Britain has excluded from its homicide counts any case that does not result in a conviction, that was the result of dangerous driving, or in which the person was determined to have acted in self-defense. All of these factors are counted as “homicides” in the United States.
7. Legally owned firearms are used for lawful purposes much more often than they are used to commit crimes or suicide.

  • In 2013, President Barack Obama ordered the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to assess existing research on gun violence. The report, compiled by the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council, found (among other things) that firearms are used defensively hundreds of thousands of times every year.
  • According to the CDC, “self-defense can be an important crime deterrent.” Recent CDC reports acknowledge that studies directly assessing the effect of actual defensive uses of guns have found “consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”
  • Semi-automatic rifles (such as the AR-15) are commonly used as self-defense weapons in the homes of law-abiding citizens because they are easier to control than handguns, are more versatile than handguns, and offer the advantage of up to 30 rounds of protection. Even Vox has published stories defending the use of the AR-15.
  • AR-15s have been used to save lives on many occasions, including:
    • Oswego, Illinois (2018) — A man with an AR-15 intervened to stop a neighbor’s knife attack and cited the larger weapon’s “intimidation factor” as a reason why the attacker dropped the knife.
    • Catawba County, North Carolina (2018) — A 17-year-old successfully fought off three armed attackers with his AR-15.
    • Houston, Texas (2017) — A homeowner survived a drive-by shooting by defending himself with his AR-15.
    • Broken Arrow, Oklahoma (2017) — A homeowner’s son killed three would-be burglars with an AR-15 (the man was later deemed to have acted in justifiable self-defense).
    • Ferguson, Missouri (2014) — African-American men protected a white man’s store from rioters by standing outside armed with AR-15s.
    • Texas (2013) — A 15-year-old boy used an AR-15 during a home invasion to save both his life and that of his 12-year-old sister.
    • Rochester, New York (2013) — Home intruders fled after facing an AR-15.
8. Concealed carry permit holders are not the problem, but they may be part of the solution.


Here Are 8 Stubborn Facts on Gun Violence in America


Fact Check: Are Most Gun Crimes Committed With Handguns?
You cannot change or fix the truth at your convenience, just because you want to. World statistics destroys any argument. It is what it is; America's gun culture vs. the world in 5 charts - CNN
 
Are you offended?

Why shouldn't I be?
Try the CDZ. You've been here long enough to know better.

I will post wherever I please.

People lack the common decency to revere the dead and leave politics out of it for at least a day or so. So damned disrespectful to the families to which the victims belonged. Don't lecture me.

Yeah, it's never "quite time" to talk about some sensible gun reforms. I believe you even agreed with mine earlier.

Thoughts & Prayers seem a little shallow at this point.

Yanno, I can be amiable with people when they make reasonable arguments. You clearly made one. But I still despise politicizing a tragedy, any tragedy, for mere political gain. Intelligent people offer thoughts and prayers rather than political talking points in response to mass shootings like these.

But as for what they say about broken clocks...

You're an interesting dude and I like you - FAR more to contribute than the average poster here. Thought provoking at a minimum.

But do we have something like an egg timer to determine when it is appropriate to discuss a few reforms?

I think you know that it is NEVER time to discuss these things with NRA fueled politicians.
 
Huh? Right wing wacko's post and act emotionally, many hysterically when they feel their right to own guns is even questioned.

And lefties like you appear when some loon with a gun shoots up a school, with emotional arguments. You get emotional when someone stands up for their right to own a gun.
Who are the emotional ones on this thread? Calling other posters rude names? Getting angry over posts?

Clearly you aren't being emotional when you refer to other people as "trumpanzees" or "con-servatives".

Your responses in this thread are essentially a case study in the emotional and argumentative habits of hard leftists.
 
Huh? Right wing wacko's post and act emotionally, many hysterically when they feel their right to own guns is even questioned.

And lefties like you appear when some loon with a gun shoots up a school, with emotional arguments. You get emotional when someone stands up for their right to own a gun.
Who are the emotional ones on this thread? Calling other posters rude names? Getting angry over posts?

And you standing on the sidelines just making pithy retorts, then YOU CAN'T BLAME ME, I NEVER SAID THAT!

What a friggin coward.
 
Are you that intellectually bankrupt, that you cannot look up statistics of mass shootings with AR's in this country, as opposed to other countries, which have a ban on these type weapons?

Hmm, I can look up the stats and see they don't support your argument. You always use the qualifier "compared to other countries" but as it stands, just a handful of mass murders are carried out with an AR style assault weapon.

1. America is relatively safe, and the trend is toward becoming safer.

  • According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, violent crime has been declining steadily since the early 1990s.
  • The 2011 homicide rate was almost half of the rate in 1991, and according to Pew Research, the 2013 gun-related death rate was half of the rate in 1993.
  • The number of non-fatal firearm crimes committed in 2011 was one-sixth the number committed in 1993.
  • In the past few years, there have been minor increases in certain types of violent crimes, mainly in large metropolitan areas. However, these increases are nowhere near those seen in the 1990s and are largely related to gang activity.
  • It should be remembered that it takes at least three to five years of data to show true trend lines. It appears that the collective homicide toll for America’s 50 largest cities decreased modestly in 2017 after two consecutive years of increases.
2. The principal public safety concerns are suicides and illegally owned handguns.

  • According to the Pew Research Center, almost two-thirds of America’s annual gun deaths are suicides. Since 1981, when the Centers for Disease Control began publishing data, gun suicides have outnumbered gun homicides. In 2010 alone, 19,392 Americans used guns to kill themselves.
  • Most gun-related crimes are carried out with illegally owned firearms—as much as 80 percent according to some estimates.
  • The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports prove that the overwhelming majority of gun-related homicides are perpetrated with handguns, with rifles of any kind accounting for less than 3 percent of gun-related homicides. In 2013, 5,782 murders were committed by killers who used a handgun, compared to 285 committed by killers who used a rifle. The same holds true for 2012 (6,404 to 298); 2011 (6,251 to 332); 2010 (6,115 to 367); and 2009 (6,501 to 351).
  • More people are stabbed to death every year than are murdered with rifles.
  • A person is more likely to be bludgeoned to death with a blunt object or beaten to death with hands and feet than to be murdered with a rifle.
3. A small number of factors significantly increase the likelihood that a person will be a victim of a gun-related homicide.

  • Where do you live? Murders in the United States are very concentrated. According to the Crime Prevention Research Center, over 50 percent of murders occur in 2 percent of the nation’s 3,142 counties. Moreover, gun-related homicides are heavily concentrated in certain neighborhoods within those counties: 54 percent of U.S. counties had zero murders in 2014.
  • Who is your partner? According to a recent scholarly article in the Hastings Law Journal, people recently or currently involved in an abusive intimate relationship are much more likely to be victims of gun-related homicide than is the rest of the population, especially if the abuser possesses firearms.
  • Are you in a gang? According to the Department of Justice’s National Gang Center, particularly in urban areas, significant percentages of gun-related homicides (15 percent to 33 percent) are linked with gang and drug activity. Gang-related homicides are more likely to involve firearms than non-gang-related homicides are.
  • Are you a male between 15 and 34? The majority of standard gun murder victims are men between the ages of 15 and 34. Although black men make up roughly 7 percent of the population, they account for almost two-thirds of gun murder victims every year.
  • Women and children are more likely to be the victims of mass shootings and homicide-suicide shootings than they are to be the victims of a “typical” gun-related homicide.
4. The perpetration of gun-related murders is often carried out by predictable people.

5. Higher rates of gun ownership are not associated with higher rates of violent crime.

  • Switzerland and Israel have much higher gun ownership rates than the United States but experience far fewer homicides and have much lower violent crime rates than many European nations with strict gun control laws.
    • While some will argue that the guns carried by Swiss and Israeli citizens are technically “owned” by the government in most cases, this does little to negate the fact that many citizens in those countries have ready access to firearms.
  • Canada is ranked 12th in the world for the number of civilian-owned guns per capita and reports one of the world’s lower homicide rates—but even then, some provinces have higher homicide rates than U.S. states with less restrictive laws and higher rates of gun ownership have.
  • Although many gun control advocates have noted that “right-to-carry” states tend to experience slight increases in violent crime, other studies have noted the opposite effect.
  • Higher rates of concealed carry permit holders are even more strongly associated with reduction in violent crime than are “right-to-carry” states. The probable reason for this is that “right-to-carry” studies often include “open carry” states, which have not been shown to correlate with more people actually carrying or even owning firearms. Rates of concealed carry permit holders are better indicators of the number of people who actually possess and carry firearms within a given population.
  • Further, as with most correlations, there are many other factors that can account for increases in concealed carry permits—including the fact that people who live in already dangerous neighborhoods seek out means of self-defense. The Huffington Post noted that the rate of concealed carry permit requests in Chicago has soared in recent years after the city loosened restrictions, in large part, according to the Chicago Tribune, because law-abiding residents are increasingly worried about rising rates of violent crime in the city.
  • The rate of gun ownership is higher among whites than it is among African-Americans, but the murder rate among African-Americans is significantly higher than the rate among whites.
  • Similarly, the rate of gun ownership is higher in rural areas than in urban areas, but urban areas experience higher murder rates.
6. There is no clear relationship between strict gun control legislation and homicide or violent crime rates.

  • The Brady Campaign Against Gun Violence ironically makes this clear with its ratings for states based on gun laws. “Gun freedom” states that score poorly, like New Hampshire, Vermont, Idaho, and Oregon, have some of the lowest homicide rates. Conversely, “gun-control-loving” states that received high scores, like Maryland and Illinois, experience some of the nation’s highest homicide rates.
  • The Crime Prevention Research Center notes that, if anything, the data indicate that countries with high rates of gun ownership tend to have lower homicide rates—but this is only a correlation, and many factors do not necessarily support a conclusion that high rates of gun ownership cause the low rates of homicide.
  • Homicide and firearm homicide rates in Great Britain spiked in the years immediately following the imposition of severe gun control measures, despite the fact that most developed countries continued to experience a downward trend in these rates. This is also pointed out by noted criminologist John Lott in his book “The War on Guns.”
  • Similarly, Ireland’s homicide rates spiked in the years immediately following the country’s 1972 gun confiscation legislation.
  • Australia’s National Firearms Act appears to have had little effect on suicide and homicide rates, which were falling before the law was enacted and continued to decline at a statistically unremarkable rate compared to worldwide trends.
  • According to research compiled by John Lott and highlighted in his book “The War on Guns,” Australia’s armed and unarmed robbery rates both increased markedly in the five years immediately following the National Firearms Act, despite the general downward trend experienced by other developed countries.
  • Great Britain has some of the strictest gun control laws in the developed world, but the violent crime rate for homicide, rape, burglary, and aggravated assault is much higher than that in the U.S. Further, approximately 60 percent of burglaries in Great Britain occur while residents are home, compared to just 13 percent in the U.S., and British burglars admit to targeting occupied residences because they are more likely to find wallets and purses.
  • It is difficult to compare homicide and firearm-related murder rates across international borders because countries use different methods to determine which deaths “count” for purposes of violent crime. For example, since 1967, Great Britain has excluded from its homicide counts any case that does not result in a conviction, that was the result of dangerous driving, or in which the person was determined to have acted in self-defense. All of these factors are counted as “homicides” in the United States.
7. Legally owned firearms are used for lawful purposes much more often than they are used to commit crimes or suicide.

  • In 2013, President Barack Obama ordered the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to assess existing research on gun violence. The report, compiled by the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council, found (among other things) that firearms are used defensively hundreds of thousands of times every year.
  • According to the CDC, “self-defense can be an important crime deterrent.” Recent CDC reports acknowledge that studies directly assessing the effect of actual defensive uses of guns have found “consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”
  • Semi-automatic rifles (such as the AR-15) are commonly used as self-defense weapons in the homes of law-abiding citizens because they are easier to control than handguns, are more versatile than handguns, and offer the advantage of up to 30 rounds of protection. Even Vox has published stories defending the use of the AR-15.
  • AR-15s have been used to save lives on many occasions, including:
    • Oswego, Illinois (2018) — A man with an AR-15 intervened to stop a neighbor’s knife attack and cited the larger weapon’s “intimidation factor” as a reason why the attacker dropped the knife.
    • Catawba County, North Carolina (2018) — A 17-year-old successfully fought off three armed attackers with his AR-15.
    • Houston, Texas (2017) — A homeowner survived a drive-by shooting by defending himself with his AR-15.
    • Broken Arrow, Oklahoma (2017) — A homeowner’s son killed three would-be burglars with an AR-15 (the man was later deemed to have acted in justifiable self-defense).
    • Ferguson, Missouri (2014) — African-American men protected a white man’s store from rioters by standing outside armed with AR-15s.
    • Texas (2013) — A 15-year-old boy used an AR-15 during a home invasion to save both his life and that of his 12-year-old sister.
    • Rochester, New York (2013) — Home intruders fled after facing an AR-15.
8. Concealed carry permit holders are not the problem, but they may be part of the solution.


Here Are 8 Stubborn Facts on Gun Violence in America


Fact Check: Are Most Gun Crimes Committed With Handguns?
You cannot change or fix the truth at your convenience, just because you want to. World statistics destroys any argument. It is what it is; America's gun culture vs. the world in 5 charts - CNN
I don't give a shit about the rest of the world. They are too busy being over ran by muslims.
 
/----/ when will criminal behavior end? Never.

Yep.... the Disney dwellers sit out there in radioland and think that there is some way we're going to have a day where tragedies don't happen. It's called missing too many memos.
Dead school kids as part of the cost of doing business? How cynical.
/----/ When are you releasing your plan to lock up crazies so they can't hurt anyone ?

Obviously...there is still a lot to do.....since you are still posting.
 
Are you that intellectually bankrupt, that you cannot look up statistics of mass shootings with AR's in this country, as opposed to other countries, which have a ban on these type weapons?

Hmm, I can look up the stats and see they don't support your argument. You always use the qualifier "compared to other countries" but as it stands, just a handful of mass murders are carried out with an AR style assault weapon.

1. America is relatively safe, and the trend is toward becoming safer.

  • According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, violent crime has been declining steadily since the early 1990s.
  • The 2011 homicide rate was almost half of the rate in 1991, and according to Pew Research, the 2013 gun-related death rate was half of the rate in 1993.
  • The number of non-fatal firearm crimes committed in 2011 was one-sixth the number committed in 1993.
  • In the past few years, there have been minor increases in certain types of violent crimes, mainly in large metropolitan areas. However, these increases are nowhere near those seen in the 1990s and are largely related to gang activity.
  • It should be remembered that it takes at least three to five years of data to show true trend lines. It appears that the collective homicide toll for America’s 50 largest cities decreased modestly in 2017 after two consecutive years of increases.
2. The principal public safety concerns are suicides and illegally owned handguns.

  • According to the Pew Research Center, almost two-thirds of America’s annual gun deaths are suicides. Since 1981, when the Centers for Disease Control began publishing data, gun suicides have outnumbered gun homicides. In 2010 alone, 19,392 Americans used guns to kill themselves.
  • Most gun-related crimes are carried out with illegally owned firearms—as much as 80 percent according to some estimates.
  • The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports prove that the overwhelming majority of gun-related homicides are perpetrated with handguns, with rifles of any kind accounting for less than 3 percent of gun-related homicides. In 2013, 5,782 murders were committed by killers who used a handgun, compared to 285 committed by killers who used a rifle. The same holds true for 2012 (6,404 to 298); 2011 (6,251 to 332); 2010 (6,115 to 367); and 2009 (6,501 to 351).
  • More people are stabbed to death every year than are murdered with rifles.
  • A person is more likely to be bludgeoned to death with a blunt object or beaten to death with hands and feet than to be murdered with a rifle.
3. A small number of factors significantly increase the likelihood that a person will be a victim of a gun-related homicide.

  • Where do you live? Murders in the United States are very concentrated. According to the Crime Prevention Research Center, over 50 percent of murders occur in 2 percent of the nation’s 3,142 counties. Moreover, gun-related homicides are heavily concentrated in certain neighborhoods within those counties: 54 percent of U.S. counties had zero murders in 2014.
  • Who is your partner? According to a recent scholarly article in the Hastings Law Journal, people recently or currently involved in an abusive intimate relationship are much more likely to be victims of gun-related homicide than is the rest of the population, especially if the abuser possesses firearms.
  • Are you in a gang? According to the Department of Justice’s National Gang Center, particularly in urban areas, significant percentages of gun-related homicides (15 percent to 33 percent) are linked with gang and drug activity. Gang-related homicides are more likely to involve firearms than non-gang-related homicides are.
  • Are you a male between 15 and 34? The majority of standard gun murder victims are men between the ages of 15 and 34. Although black men make up roughly 7 percent of the population, they account for almost two-thirds of gun murder victims every year.
  • Women and children are more likely to be the victims of mass shootings and homicide-suicide shootings than they are to be the victims of a “typical” gun-related homicide.
4. The perpetration of gun-related murders is often carried out by predictable people.

5. Higher rates of gun ownership are not associated with higher rates of violent crime.

  • Switzerland and Israel have much higher gun ownership rates than the United States but experience far fewer homicides and have much lower violent crime rates than many European nations with strict gun control laws.
    • While some will argue that the guns carried by Swiss and Israeli citizens are technically “owned” by the government in most cases, this does little to negate the fact that many citizens in those countries have ready access to firearms.
  • Canada is ranked 12th in the world for the number of civilian-owned guns per capita and reports one of the world’s lower homicide rates—but even then, some provinces have higher homicide rates than U.S. states with less restrictive laws and higher rates of gun ownership have.
  • Although many gun control advocates have noted that “right-to-carry” states tend to experience slight increases in violent crime, other studies have noted the opposite effect.
  • Higher rates of concealed carry permit holders are even more strongly associated with reduction in violent crime than are “right-to-carry” states. The probable reason for this is that “right-to-carry” studies often include “open carry” states, which have not been shown to correlate with more people actually carrying or even owning firearms. Rates of concealed carry permit holders are better indicators of the number of people who actually possess and carry firearms within a given population.
  • Further, as with most correlations, there are many other factors that can account for increases in concealed carry permits—including the fact that people who live in already dangerous neighborhoods seek out means of self-defense. The Huffington Post noted that the rate of concealed carry permit requests in Chicago has soared in recent years after the city loosened restrictions, in large part, according to the Chicago Tribune, because law-abiding residents are increasingly worried about rising rates of violent crime in the city.
  • The rate of gun ownership is higher among whites than it is among African-Americans, but the murder rate among African-Americans is significantly higher than the rate among whites.
  • Similarly, the rate of gun ownership is higher in rural areas than in urban areas, but urban areas experience higher murder rates.
6. There is no clear relationship between strict gun control legislation and homicide or violent crime rates.

  • The Brady Campaign Against Gun Violence ironically makes this clear with its ratings for states based on gun laws. “Gun freedom” states that score poorly, like New Hampshire, Vermont, Idaho, and Oregon, have some of the lowest homicide rates. Conversely, “gun-control-loving” states that received high scores, like Maryland and Illinois, experience some of the nation’s highest homicide rates.
  • The Crime Prevention Research Center notes that, if anything, the data indicate that countries with high rates of gun ownership tend to have lower homicide rates—but this is only a correlation, and many factors do not necessarily support a conclusion that high rates of gun ownership cause the low rates of homicide.
  • Homicide and firearm homicide rates in Great Britain spiked in the years immediately following the imposition of severe gun control measures, despite the fact that most developed countries continued to experience a downward trend in these rates. This is also pointed out by noted criminologist John Lott in his book “The War on Guns.”
  • Similarly, Ireland’s homicide rates spiked in the years immediately following the country’s 1972 gun confiscation legislation.
  • Australia’s National Firearms Act appears to have had little effect on suicide and homicide rates, which were falling before the law was enacted and continued to decline at a statistically unremarkable rate compared to worldwide trends.
  • According to research compiled by John Lott and highlighted in his book “The War on Guns,” Australia’s armed and unarmed robbery rates both increased markedly in the five years immediately following the National Firearms Act, despite the general downward trend experienced by other developed countries.
  • Great Britain has some of the strictest gun control laws in the developed world, but the violent crime rate for homicide, rape, burglary, and aggravated assault is much higher than that in the U.S. Further, approximately 60 percent of burglaries in Great Britain occur while residents are home, compared to just 13 percent in the U.S., and British burglars admit to targeting occupied residences because they are more likely to find wallets and purses.
  • It is difficult to compare homicide and firearm-related murder rates across international borders because countries use different methods to determine which deaths “count” for purposes of violent crime. For example, since 1967, Great Britain has excluded from its homicide counts any case that does not result in a conviction, that was the result of dangerous driving, or in which the person was determined to have acted in self-defense. All of these factors are counted as “homicides” in the United States.
7. Legally owned firearms are used for lawful purposes much more often than they are used to commit crimes or suicide.

  • In 2013, President Barack Obama ordered the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to assess existing research on gun violence. The report, compiled by the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council, found (among other things) that firearms are used defensively hundreds of thousands of times every year.
  • According to the CDC, “self-defense can be an important crime deterrent.” Recent CDC reports acknowledge that studies directly assessing the effect of actual defensive uses of guns have found “consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”
  • Semi-automatic rifles (such as the AR-15) are commonly used as self-defense weapons in the homes of law-abiding citizens because they are easier to control than handguns, are more versatile than handguns, and offer the advantage of up to 30 rounds of protection. Even Vox has published stories defending the use of the AR-15.
  • AR-15s have been used to save lives on many occasions, including:
    • Oswego, Illinois (2018) — A man with an AR-15 intervened to stop a neighbor’s knife attack and cited the larger weapon’s “intimidation factor” as a reason why the attacker dropped the knife.
    • Catawba County, North Carolina (2018) — A 17-year-old successfully fought off three armed attackers with his AR-15.
    • Houston, Texas (2017) — A homeowner survived a drive-by shooting by defending himself with his AR-15.
    • Broken Arrow, Oklahoma (2017) — A homeowner’s son killed three would-be burglars with an AR-15 (the man was later deemed to have acted in justifiable self-defense).
    • Ferguson, Missouri (2014) — African-American men protected a white man’s store from rioters by standing outside armed with AR-15s.
    • Texas (2013) — A 15-year-old boy used an AR-15 during a home invasion to save both his life and that of his 12-year-old sister.
    • Rochester, New York (2013) — Home intruders fled after facing an AR-15.
8. Concealed carry permit holders are not the problem, but they may be part of the solution.


Here Are 8 Stubborn Facts on Gun Violence in America


Fact Check: Are Most Gun Crimes Committed With Handguns?
You cannot change or fix the truth at your convenience, just because you want to. World statistics destroys any argument. It is what it is; America's gun culture vs. the world in 5 charts - CNN


Word of advice...CNN is shit
 
The Left -

STOP THE MADNESS - We MUST OUTLAW AND CONFISCATE GUNS NOW !!!!!!!

The REALITY -

Confiscating ALL guns might reduce the number of deaths a bit...but a disarmed society no longer retains the capability to resist government organized tyranny.

The Left -

In modern times, there is no need for civilians to have arms, governments don't become tyrannical like they did in past history

The Reality -

China JUST became a dictatorship and is likely entering a new century of oppression and abuse of power and large scale human suffering
Russia recently became a de facto Dictatorship with the assassination of opposition leaders becoming common
Venezuela JUST became a dictatorship and is falling into a chaotic, deadly, murderous state of poverty and human suffering
North Korea and China have entered into agreements assuring much of Asia will remain under Authoritarian control for the foreseeable future.

The Left -

But the US is different. The US could never fall like that

The Reality -

The IRS was recently used as a political tool against select groups
A President was elected that the Left claims is a tyrant of the worst kind, (so is this REALLY a good time to be disarming America?)
Politicians and Congressmen are coming into office and amassing great wealth. Is that not a sign of corruption?
Under George Bush, The Patriot Act was initiated which GREATLY reduces Due Process and subjects Americans to UnConstitutional searches and seizures.
Congress passed Civil Forfeiture Laws allowing Law enforcement at any level to confiscate your property with NO warrant and with nearly ZERO recourse

The Conclusion
While there is a cost to pay, American citizens must remain armed per the 2nd Amendment in order to have even the slightest chance of resisting corruption and to discourage political/governmental instability. Remember, in a perfect society, government is not even necessary, but in reality, is the result of the need to correct HUMAN FAULTS & SHORTCOMINGS.
 
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Really? Who defends pedophiles like Dennis Hastert and Roy Moore?

The same people who defend the likes of REP. Gerry Studds (D-Mass.), REP. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), REP Mel Reynolds (D-Ill.)...

California Congresswoman Jackie Speier, Democrat, wants to federalize a state law that protects pedophiles. No, that's not the main part of the bill, known in California as SB1172. Speier's bill is designed to prohibit counseling to change a person's sexual orientation.
California Democrats Pass Bill That Protects Pedophiles
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3004300/posts
Barney Frank? What was he convicted of?
 
"It's time for our school buildings to have the same level of security as our government buildings. Gun-Free Zone signs have done nothing to keep our school children safe. They've turned them into defenseless victims. And it must stop." - Wacky Joe Walsh
 
Guns have been around FOREVER but this uptick in mass killings is new. We will NOT be able to fix the problem until we properly identify it. Guns don’t kill people, psychotic ANIMALS kill people! Media also needs to stop giving these people the notoriety they want!
 
But do we have something like an egg timer to determine when it is appropriate to discuss a few reforms?

There is something called "reverence" that I was taught at a young age. You just don't go around talking about gun control/gun rights when the bodies aren't even cold yet. Politicizing it only proceeds to re-insert the lost of a loved one into the minds of their family. I think that is rather cruel.

What else is there to say?
 
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Why shouldn't I be?
Try the CDZ. You've been here long enough to know better.

I will post wherever I please.

People lack the common decency to revere the dead and leave politics out of it for at least a day or so. So damned disrespectful to the families to which the victims belonged. Don't lecture me.

Yeah, it's never "quite time" to talk about some sensible gun reforms. I believe you even agreed with mine earlier.

Thoughts & Prayers seem a little shallow at this point.

Yanno, I can be amiable with people when they make reasonable arguments. You clearly made one. But I still despise politicizing a tragedy, any tragedy, for mere political gain. Intelligent people offer thoughts and prayers rather than political talking points in response to mass shootings like these.

But as for what they say about broken clocks...

You're an interesting dude and I like you - FAR more to contribute than the average poster here. Thought provoking at a minimum.

But do we have something like an egg timer to determine when it is appropriate to discuss a few reforms?

I think you know that it is NEVER time to discuss these things with NRA fueled politicians.

The basic misunderstand is, our side wants to stop the child from becoming a Monster, and your side kind of likes the ides that children are becoming monsters to advance a political ideology.

Sell it somewhere where they care. He we seek answers, not political points.
 
Thoughts and Prayers......

Yes Thoughts and Prayers the same as the # Leftists do every time there is an Islamist Terror attack, you offer Thoughts and Prayers and nothing else eg. total banning of importing more Islamics to Western nations, yet whenever there is a school shooting you demand that 99% of the law abiding Americans who have firearms should be punished for a random maniac who has done a shooting massacre.
We'll, it looks like the domestic terrorists in this country are winning the battle from the imported one's in statistical mass shootings. Therefore, there hasn't been a lot of need for thoughts and prayers from Leftists when it comes to Islamic terrorist attacks in this country when it comes to mass shootings.

You seem to be confusing the argument with Islamic terrorist bombing attacks with domestic mass murder with guns? Not sure how "thoughts and prayers" can be useful for both, when one of them has a clear common sense solution?
And what is that solution?
Banning AR's for starters. No civilian needs one. And no one has yet given me a logical/intelligent reason for owning them.
 
Heartbreaking moment as Santa Fe High School student is asked if she thought a shooting 'would not happen' at her school: "It's been happening everywhere. I've always kind of felt like eventually it was going to happen here too."
 
/----/ when will criminal behavior end? Never.

Yep.... the Disney dwellers sit out there in radioland and think that there is some way we're going to have a day where tragedies don't happen. It's called missing too many memos.
Ah...so we should just get used to it....I agree. School shootings are the new normal in this country. #MAGA!

Sadly this is true. We can now expect a slew of comments making the claim that only one school shooting today, and yet 10,000 times today a gun will prevent the loss of life or property.


That's exactly right s0n.... and at the end of the day your side will lose again in prolific fashion like always.

Armed police officers in schools. Period. It's coming.... the bubble dwellers won't like it but that's the way it's going to be.

U know what a SRO is? If they are cowards... They are the armed guards..
 
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I've done a bit of research on my own and determined that your argument definitely has merit.

School Shooters & Stabbings Committed by those on Psychiatric Drugs | CCHR International
 
"The Texas school murder suspect has been identified as 17-year-old Dimitrios Pagourtzis. he attended the Assumption of the Virgin Mary Greek Orthodox Church in Galveston."
 

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