Yet another school shooting

[TemplarKormac]

Huh? Right wing wacko's post and act emotionally, many hysterically when they feel their right to own guns is even questioned.

And lefties like you appear when some loon with a gun shoots up a school, with emotional arguments. You get emotional when someone stands up for their right to own a gun.

Who are the emotional ones on this thread? Calling other posters rude names? Getting angry over posts?

Clearly you aren't being emotional when you refer to other people as "trumpanzees" or "con-servatives".

Your responses in this thread are essentially a case study in the emotional and argumentative habits of hard leftists.

My goodness....are you going all PC on us?

What else would I be using to post here?

 

[bodecea]

Huh? Right wing wacko's post and act emotionally, many hysterically when they feel their right to own guns is even questioned.

And lefties like you appear when some loon with a gun shoots up a school, with emotional arguments. You get emotional when someone stands up for their right to own a gun.

Who are the emotional ones on this thread? Calling other posters rude names? Getting angry over posts?

And you standing on the sidelines just making pithy retorts, then YOU CAN'T BLAME ME, I NEVER SAID THAT!

What a friggin coward.

Wait....and yet you want to accuse people of saying things they never said.....and YOU are the victim? It never ceases to amaze me, the combination of flim-flammery and stupidity trumpanzees possess.

 

[basquebromance]

Gov Abbott 2 weeks ago at NRA Nat’l convention:”The problem is not guns. It’s hearts without God.”

Moments ago:”we need to do more than pray for victims and their families.”

 

[Ridgerunner]

Barney Frank? What was he convicted of?

Funny the word convicted was not mentioned in any of the posts I am responding to or in the posts I have posted... You're making shit up again sis... Stick to the facts...
Oh and Barney Frank could be incarcerated for felony stupid...

 

[Pop23]

Huh? Right wing wacko's post and act emotionally, many hysterically when they feel their right to own guns is even questioned.

And lefties like you appear when some loon with a gun shoots up a school, with emotional arguments. You get emotional when someone stands up for their right to own a gun.

Who are the emotional ones on this thread? Calling other posters rude names? Getting angry over posts?

And you standing on the sidelines just making pithy retorts, then YOU CAN'T BLAME ME, I NEVER SAID THAT!

What a friggin coward.

Wait....and yet you want to accuse people of saying things they never said.....and YOU are the victim? It never ceases to amaze me, the combination of flim-flammery and stupidity trumpanzees possess.

Where have I claimed to be a victim. You on the right thread?

 

[miketx]

Thoughts and Prayers......

Yes Thoughts and Prayers the same as the # Leftists do every time there is an Islamist Terror attack, you offer Thoughts and Prayers and nothing else eg. total banning of importing more Islamics to Western nations, yet whenever there is a school shooting you demand that 99% of the law abiding Americans who have firearms should be punished for a random maniac who has done a shooting massacre.

We'll, it looks like the domestic terrorists in this country are winning the battle from the imported one's in statistical mass shootings. Therefore, there hasn't been a lot of need for thoughts and prayers from Leftists when it comes to Islamic terrorist attacks in this country when it comes to mass shootings.

You seem to be confusing the argument with Islamic terrorist bombing attacks with domestic mass murder with guns? Not sure how "thoughts and prayers" can be useful for both, when one of them has a clear common sense solution?

And what is that solution?

Banning AR's for starters. No civilian needs one. And no one has yet given me a logical/intelligent reason for owning them.

Notice this guy said "for starters". Tell us how banning AR-15's will stop shootings when there a hundred other brands or more just as lethal or more so. Hmmm?

 

[Trumpisgod25]

Santa Fe High School shooting: Suspect in custody, assistant principal says - CNN

Details still breaking.

When will this end?

This is why we need more guns in the united states. We should arm gun adept teachers. Gun control is a sham. The ar15 is not a weapon of war

 

[miketx]

Are you that intellectually bankrupt, that you cannot look up statistics of mass shootings with AR's in this country, as opposed to other countries, which have a ban on these type weapons?

Hmm, I can look up the stats and see they don't support your argument. You always use the qualifier "compared to other countries" but as it stands, just a handful of mass murders are carried out with an AR style assault weapon.

1. America is relatively safe, and the trend is toward becoming safer.

• According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, violent crime has been declining steadily since the early 1990s.
• The 2011 homicide rate was almost half of the rate in 1991, and according to Pew Research, the 2013 gun-related death rate was half of the rate in 1993.
• The number of non-fatal firearm crimes committed in 2011 was one-sixth the number committed in 1993.
• In the past few years, there have been minor increases in certain types of violent crimes, mainly in large metropolitan areas. However, these increases are nowhere near those seen in the 1990s and are largely related to gang activity.
• It should be remembered that it takes at least three to five years of data to show true trend lines. It appears that the collective homicide toll for America’s 50 largest cities decreased modestly in 2017 after two consecutive years of increases.

2. The principal public safety concerns are suicides and illegally owned handguns.

• According to the Pew Research Center, almost two-thirds of America’s annual gun deaths are suicides. Since 1981, when the Centers for Disease Control began publishing data, gun suicides have outnumbered gun homicides. In 2010 alone, 19,392 Americans used guns to kill themselves.
• Most gun-related crimes are carried out with illegally owned firearms—as much as 80 percent according to some estimates.
• The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports prove that the overwhelming majority of gun-related homicides are perpetrated with handguns, with rifles of any kind accounting for less than 3 percent of gun-related homicides. In 2013, 5,782 murders were committed by killers who used a handgun, compared to 285 committed by killers who used a rifle. The same holds true for 2012 (6,404 to 298); 2011 (6,251 to 332); 2010 (6,115 to 367); and 2009 (6,501 to 351).
• More people are stabbed to death every year than are murdered with rifles.
• A person is more likely to be bludgeoned to death with a blunt object or beaten to death with hands and feet than to be murdered with a rifle.

3. A small number of factors significantly increase the likelihood that a person will be a victim of a gun-related homicide.

• Where do you live? Murders in the United States are very concentrated. According to the Crime Prevention Research Center, over 50 percent of murders occur in 2 percent of the nation’s 3,142 counties. Moreover, gun-related homicides are heavily concentrated in certain neighborhoods within those counties: 54 percent of U.S. counties had zero murders in 2014.
• Who is your partner? According to a recent scholarly article in the Hastings Law Journal, people recently or currently involved in an abusive intimate relationship are much more likely to be victims of gun-related homicide than is the rest of the population, especially if the abuser possesses firearms.
• Are you in a gang? According to the Department of Justice’s National Gang Center, particularly in urban areas, significant percentages of gun-related homicides (15 percent to 33 percent) are linked with gang and drug activity. Gang-related homicides are more likely to involve firearms than non-gang-related homicides are.
• Are you a male between 15 and 34? The majority of standard gun murder victims are men between the ages of 15 and 34. Although black men make up roughly 7 percent of the population, they account for almost two-thirds of gun murder victims every year.
• Women and children are more likely to be the victims of mass shootings and homicide-suicide shootings than they are to be the victims of a “typical” gun-related homicide.

4. The perpetration of gun-related murders is often carried out by predictable people.

• According to studies, almost all mass public shooters have extensive histories of mental health issues (whether delusional/psychiatric or depression/anger), disturbing behaviors, or interpersonal violence.
• Intimate partner conflict and domestic violence history are major risk factors for homicide-suicides, even for those not involving intimate partners.
• Especially in urban areas, a small number of recidivist violent offendersare typically responsible for the majority of gun violence.

5. Higher rates of gun ownership are not associated with higher rates of violent crime.

• Switzerland and Israel have much higher gun ownership rates than the United States but experience far fewer homicides and have much lower violent crime rates than many European nations with strict gun control laws.
  • While some will argue that the guns carried by Swiss and Israeli citizens are technically “owned” by the government in most cases, this does little to negate the fact that many citizens in those countries have ready access to firearms.
• Canada is ranked 12th in the world for the number of civilian-owned guns per capita and reports one of the world’s lower homicide rates—but even then, some provinces have higher homicide rates than U.S. states with less restrictive laws and higher rates of gun ownership have.
• Although many gun control advocates have noted that “right-to-carry” states tend to experience slight increases in violent crime, other studies have noted the opposite effect.
• Higher rates of concealed carry permit holders are even more strongly associated with reduction in violent crime than are “right-to-carry” states. The probable reason for this is that “right-to-carry” studies often include “open carry” states, which have not been shown to correlate with more people actually carrying or even owning firearms. Rates of concealed carry permit holders are better indicators of the number of people who actually possess and carry firearms within a given population.
• Further, as with most correlations, there are many other factors that can account for increases in concealed carry permits—including the fact that people who live in already dangerous neighborhoods seek out means of self-defense. The Huffington Post noted that the rate of concealed carry permit requests in Chicago has soared in recent years after the city loosened restrictions, in large part, according to the Chicago Tribune, because law-abiding residents are increasingly worried about rising rates of violent crime in the city.
• The rate of gun ownership is higher among whites than it is among African-Americans, but the murder rate among African-Americans is significantly higher than the rate among whites.
• Similarly, the rate of gun ownership is higher in rural areas than in urban areas, but urban areas experience higher murder rates.

6. There is no clear relationship between strict gun control legislation and homicide or violent crime rates.

• The Brady Campaign Against Gun Violence ironically makes this clear with its ratings for states based on gun laws. “Gun freedom” states that score poorly, like New Hampshire, Vermont, Idaho, and Oregon, have some of the lowest homicide rates. Conversely, “gun-control-loving” states that received high scores, like Maryland and Illinois, experience some of the nation’s highest homicide rates.
• The Crime Prevention Research Center notes that, if anything, the data indicate that countries with high rates of gun ownership tend to have lower homicide rates—but this is only a correlation, and many factors do not necessarily support a conclusion that high rates of gun ownership cause the low rates of homicide.
• Homicide and firearm homicide rates in Great Britain spiked in the years immediately following the imposition of severe gun control measures, despite the fact that most developed countries continued to experience a downward trend in these rates. This is also pointed out by noted criminologist John Lott in his book “The War on Guns.”
• Similarly, Ireland’s homicide rates spiked in the years immediately following the country’s 1972 gun confiscation legislation.
• Australia’s National Firearms Act appears to have had little effect on suicide and homicide rates, which were falling before the law was enacted and continued to decline at a statistically unremarkable rate compared to worldwide trends.
• According to research compiled by John Lott and highlighted in his book “The War on Guns,” Australia’s armed and unarmed robbery rates both increased markedly in the five years immediately following the National Firearms Act, despite the general downward trend experienced by other developed countries.
• Great Britain has some of the strictest gun control laws in the developed world, but the violent crime rate for homicide, rape, burglary, and aggravated assault is much higher than that in the U.S. Further, approximately 60 percent of burglaries in Great Britain occur while residents are home, compared to just 13 percent in the U.S., and British burglars admit to targeting occupied residences because they are more likely to find wallets and purses.
• It is difficult to compare homicide and firearm-related murder rates across international borders because countries use different methods to determine which deaths “count” for purposes of violent crime. For example, since 1967, Great Britain has excluded from its homicide counts any case that does not result in a conviction, that was the result of dangerous driving, or in which the person was determined to have acted in self-defense. All of these factors are counted as “homicides” in the United States.

7. Legally owned firearms are used for lawful purposes much more often than they are used to commit crimes or suicide.

• In 2013, President Barack Obama ordered the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to assess existing research on gun violence. The report, compiled by the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council, found (among other things) that firearms are used defensively hundreds of thousands of times every year.
• According to the CDC, “self-defense can be an important crime deterrent.” Recent CDC reports acknowledge that studies directly assessing the effect of actual defensive uses of guns have found “consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”
• Semi-automatic rifles (such as the AR-15) are commonly used as self-defense weapons in the homes of law-abiding citizens because they are easier to control than handguns, are more versatile than handguns, and offer the advantage of up to 30 rounds of protection. Even Vox has published stories defending the use of the AR-15.
• AR-15s have been used to save lives on many occasions, including:
  • Oswego, Illinois (2018) — A man with an AR-15 intervened to stop a neighbor’s knife attack and cited the larger weapon’s “intimidation factor” as a reason why the attacker dropped the knife.
  • Catawba County, North Carolina (2018) — A 17-year-old successfully fought off three armed attackers with his AR-15.
  • Houston, Texas (2017) — A homeowner survived a drive-by shooting by defending himself with his AR-15.
  • Broken Arrow, Oklahoma (2017) — A homeowner’s son killed three would-be burglars with an AR-15 (the man was later deemed to have acted in justifiable self-defense).
  • Ferguson, Missouri (2014) — African-American men protected a white man’s store from rioters by standing outside armed with AR-15s.
  • Texas (2013) — A 15-year-old boy used an AR-15 during a home invasion to save both his life and that of his 12-year-old sister.
  • Rochester, New York (2013) — Home intruders fled after facing an AR-15.

8. Concealed carry permit holders are not the problem, but they may be part of the solution.

• Noted criminologist John Lott found that, as a group, concealed carry permit holders are some of the most law-abiding people in the United States. The rate at which they commit crimes generally and firearm crimes specifically is between one-sixth and one-tenth of that recorded for police officers, who are themselves committing crimes at a fraction of the rate of the general population.
• Between 2007 and 2015, murder rates dropped 16 percent and violent crime rates dropped 18 percent, even though the percentage of adults with concealed carry permits rose by 190 percent.
• Regression estimates show a significant association between increased permit ownership and a drop in murder and violent crime rates. Each percentage point increase in rates of permit-holding is associated with a roughly 2.5 percent drop in the murder rate.
• Concealed carry permit holders are often “the good guy with a gun,” even though they rarely receive the attention of the national media. Concealed carry permit holders were credited with saving multiple lives in:
  • Rockledge, Florida (2017);
  • Antioch, Tennessee (2017);
  • Arlington, Texas (2017);
  • Lyman, South Carolina (2016);
  • Winton, Ohio (2015);
  • Conyers, Georgia (2015);
  • New Holland, South Carolina (2015);
  • Chicago, Illinois (2015);
  • Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (2015);
  • Darby, Pennsylvania (2015);
  • Chicago, Illinois (2014);
  • Portland, Oregon (2014); and
  • Spartanburg, South Carolina (2012).

Here Are 8 Stubborn Facts on Gun Violence in America


Fact Check: Are Most Gun Crimes Committed With Handguns?

You cannot change or fix the truth at your convenience, just because you want to. World statistics destroys any argument. It is what it is; America's gun culture vs. the world in 5 charts - CNN

I don't give a shit about the rest of the world. They are too busy being over ran by muslims.

"Over ran"......English your second language?

Classic.

Regressive liberal ROE


1. Demand a link or an explanation of the truth they are objecting to.

2. Promptly reject all explanations as right wing lies. Smoke spin deflect

3. Ignore any facts presented.

4. Ridicule spelling and typos, punctuation.

5. Attack the person as being juvenile, ie: "are you 12 years old", question their education, intelligence, Age

6. Employ misdirection,

6a. smear people

6b. attack religion

6c. attack their rationality.

7. Lie, make false assumptions

8. Play race/gender card/misogynist card

9. Play gay/lesbian card

10. Play the Nazi/Fascist/bigot card

11. Make up stuff/So you got nothing?

12. Deny constantly

13. Reword and repeat

14. Pretending not to understand, playing ignorant/what did I lie about

15. When losing, resort to personal attacks.

16. Russia

17. Fox News/Alex Jones/Brietbart/infowars/Stormfront/Gateway/hannity

18. You can’t read.

19. Trump Trump Trump TrumpTrump Trump

 

[DrLove]

Well, all the red flags yet again on this one and nothing was done in the gun-centric states of Florida OR Texas.

The Texas student arrested for gunning down 10 people at his high school Friday is a 17-year-old named Dimitrios Pagourtzis, according to CBS News.

Officials haven’t officially released his name, but law enforcement sources tell the Associated Press and other outlets that Pagourtzis is the suspect they have in custody.

A month ago, an Instagram account that appears to belong to Pagourtzis posted a photo of a handgun and a knife on a bed, with the caption “hi f–kers.”

And screenshots of Pagourtzis’ now-deleted Facebook page show that he recently posted images of a T-shirt with “Born to Kill” written across it and a coat covered in pins that he said represented “kamikaze tactics” and “bravery.”

Witnesses told CW 39 Houston News that the shooter was wearing army boots, a trench coat and a “Born to Kill” shirt when he stormed the school.

One student said Pagourtzis always dressed like that.

“He wears a trench coat every day, and it’s like 90 degrees out here,” Dustin Severin, 17, told a local NBC affiliate.

“He’s been picked on by coaches before, for smelling bad and stuff like that. And he doesn’t really talk to very many people either. He keeps to himself.”

He was away from school for several days before the shooting, student Avery Garza told Buzzfeed News. ​

And he donned a Nazi uniform for the carnage - Sad

Sante Fe School Shooter Dimitrios Pagourtzis Wore NAZI Uniform . . . 'White Supremacist'!!

 

[basquebromance]

I've said it 1000 times... grown adults aren't the ones running into schools and shooting them up, it's other high school kids who are sick of being picked on. You want to blame someone? Blame the kids trolling and bullying other kids in school and social media.

 

[TemplarKormac]

But do we have something like an egg timer to determine when it is appropriate to discuss a few reforms?

There is something called "reverence" that I was taught at a young age. You just don't go around talking about gun control/gun rights when the bodies aren't even cold yet.

What else is there to say?

You're on here aren't you? Doesn't look like you learned too much?

Huh?

 

[bendog]

Santa Fe High School shooting: Suspect in custody, assistant principal says - CNN

Details still breaking.

When will this end?

When we decide that giving our kids SSRI antidepressants is a really really bad idea.

Until then, it won't

antidepressants caused this?

A class of them. SSRI

They have been used by most, and maybe all of the school shooters.

Correlation is not the same as cause effect. I'd think crazy ass social media might be an indicator though.

 

[DrLove]

Yeah, it's never "quite time" to talk about some sensible gun reforms. I believe you even agreed with mine earlier.

Thoughts & Prayers seem a little shallow at this point.

Yanno, I can be amiable with people when they make reasonable arguments. You clearly made one. But I still despise politicizing a tragedy, any tragedy, for mere political gain. Intelligent people offer thoughts and prayers rather than political talking points in response to mass shootings like these.

But as for what they say about broken clocks...

You're an interesting dude and I like you - FAR more to contribute than the average poster here. Thought provoking at a minimum.

But do we have something like an egg timer to determine when it is appropriate to discuss a few reforms?

I think you know that it is NEVER time to discuss these things with NRA fueled politicians.

The basic misunderstand is, our side wants to stop the child from becoming a Monster, and your side kind of likes the ides that children are becoming monsters to advance a political ideology.

Sell it somewhere where they care. He we seek answers, not political points.

Dude, now you're out of bounds.

As I gun owner and 2nd amendment advocate myself -

I object to the goofy insinuation that we want children to become monsters and cheer school (or any other) shootings.

You must, otherwise you wouldn't be posting here about the tool, and not the cause.

Not true - as for "the tool and not the cause" - It's just that I believe some tools are more appropriate for certain jobs.

Would you choose a roofing nail gun, or a Phillips-ead screwdriver to reroof?

 

[basquebromance]

"Texas Gov. Greg Abbott: Information indicates shooting suspect had wanted to commit suicide following school shooting, but "didn't have the courage." Abbott says shooter "gave himself up."

 

[bendog]

I've said it 1000 times... grown adults aren't the ones running into schools and shooting them up, it's other high school kids who are sick of being picked on. You want to blame someone? Blame the kids trolling and bullying other kids in school and social media.

Well not every bullied kid kills, and I doubt every kid on antidepressants or posting neo Nazi shit on facebook is either. But there does seem to be a lack of responsible adult supervision. Schools and social workers and cops can't be the same as parents, but it seems money will have to be found to employ more "watchers," and yeah that includes people who investigate and stop bullying.

 

[bodecea]

Your gun runners who don't FOLLOW GUN LAWS nor need them.

View attachment 194158

I'm shocked to hear that guns from "Fast and Furious" were used in this TX school shooting.

 

[Pop23]

I will post wherever I please.

People lack the common decency to revere the dead and leave politics out of it for at least a day or so. So damned disrespectful to the families to which the victims belonged. Don't lecture me.

Yeah, it's never "quite time" to talk about some sensible gun reforms. I believe you even agreed with mine earlier.

Thoughts & Prayers seem a little shallow at this point.

Yanno, I can be amiable with people when they make reasonable arguments. You clearly made one. But I still despise politicizing a tragedy, any tragedy, for mere political gain. Intelligent people offer thoughts and prayers rather than political talking points in response to mass shootings like these.

But as for what they say about broken clocks...

You're an interesting dude and I like you - FAR more to contribute than the average poster here. Thought provoking at a minimum.

But do we have something like an egg timer to determine when it is appropriate to discuss a few reforms?

I think you know that it is NEVER time to discuss these things with NRA fueled politicians.

The basic misunderstand is, our side wants to stop the child from becoming a Monster, and your side kind of likes the ides that children are becoming monsters to advance a political ideology.

Sell it somewhere where they care. He we seek answers, not political points.

Dude, now you're out of bounds.

As I gun owner and 2nd amendment advocate myself -

I object to the goofy insinuation that we want children to become monsters and cheer school (or any other) shootings.

You've been ranting that these school shootings place the blood of these children on the hands of the NRA and their members, when I've clearly shown the link between a class of antidepresant and most of these shootings, and you respond with righteous indignation?

That is the height of absurdity

 

[DrLove]

You've been ranting that these school shootings place the blood of these children on the hands of the NRA and their members, when I've clearly shown the link between a class of antidepresant and most of these shootings, and you respond with righteous indignation?

That is the height of absurdity

I am willing to assess blame to both drugs and lax gun laws as promoted by the NRA.

We'll find out soon I guess if this kid was on prescription drugs.

 

[miketx]

Yeah, it's never "quite time" to talk about some sensible gun reforms. I believe you even agreed with mine earlier.

Thoughts & Prayers seem a little shallow at this point.

Yanno, I can be amiable with people when they make reasonable arguments. You clearly made one. But I still despise politicizing a tragedy, any tragedy, for mere political gain. Intelligent people offer thoughts and prayers rather than political talking points in response to mass shootings like these.

But as for what they say about broken clocks...

You're an interesting dude and I like you - FAR more to contribute than the average poster here. Thought provoking at a minimum.

But do we have something like an egg timer to determine when it is appropriate to discuss a few reforms?

I think you know that it is NEVER time to discuss these things with NRA fueled politicians.

The basic misunderstand is, our side wants to stop the child from becoming a Monster, and your side kind of likes the ides that children are becoming monsters to advance a political ideology.

Sell it somewhere where they care. He we seek answers, not political points.

Dude, now you're out of bounds.

As I gun owner and 2nd amendment advocate myself -

I object to the goofy insinuation that we want children to become monsters and cheer school (or any other) shootings.

You've been ranting that these school shootings place the blood of these children on the hands of the NRA and their members, when I've clearly shown the link between a class of antidepresant and most of these shootings, and you respond with righteous indignation?

That is the height of absurdity

That's what troll liars are all about. Fake.

 

[JBond]

Prayers and thoughts. If it was an illegal alien, we'd do something.

What a truly insensitive post. That's just like me saying, "if it were a Trump supporter, you'd be cheering."

Wow. I've almost had enough.

Are you offended?

If you said that id respond, No I don't chear for death, which is why I support more restrictions on ranged death machines that are obviously being abused.

Scraping the Constitution is hardly a plan. Gun bans and restrictions have done nothing to slow down violence.