1 woman & her purse vs. 3 violent men...no one has a gun...poor woman...

[Brain357]

I just showed you that WI went up. So no it hasn't.

And here is someone who looked at the research...and shows you are wrong...

Concealed Weapons Studies Found What Extrano s Alley a gun blog

Someone stopped by searching for “concealed weapons studies found what.”

Nothing that made front page headlines, even assuming the media were inclined to give front page headlines to studies that refute some of their most firmly held beliefs.

I know of 29 such studies. 18 found Concealed Carry laws reduce crime. 11 were “indeterminate,” primarily because of the choice of study subjects and methodology.

In order to live up to the potential a substantial number of people must carry a legal weapon, so the risks of attempting to commit a crime are also substantial: and that risk must be sufficiently well known to the criminal community before it becomes a deterrent.

Generally speaking, it takes two to five years to get enough legal guns on the street to make a difference; and it takes a number of well publicized incidents in which a criminal came a cropper at the hands of a legally armed citizen. Those conditions are best met in jurisdictions with “clean” Concealed Carry laws.

That is, laws in which lawfully armed citizens can carry everywhere or almost everywhere; and where a brief sight of a weapon or “being made” as armed; will not result in jail time or permit revocation. If a law is encumbered with restrictions on a citizens right to carry, or a gust of wind may result in jail time, too many citizens do not use the privileges that come with their permit. So the effect of concealed carry is much lessened.

I just showed you the numbers, I am not wrong. WI passed concealed carry and crime went up. That's a fact.

 

[2aguy]

which is why law abiding citizens need to be armed since a huge amount of crime is drug related...addicts robbing people to get drug money...to buy drugs from gangs....when a law abiding citizen has a gun to stop the crime...they are no longer a victim...

or do you want people to be beaten, raped, robbed and murdered...due to the fact they could not defend themselves...?

• 
  
• 
  
• 

 

[2aguy]

WI passed concealed carry and crime went up. That's a fact.

And I showed you it can take between 2-5 years...that is a fact...how long has it been for Wisconsin....or for Chicago that passed concealed carry in January...and violent crime is down 22%...

 

[Brain357]

which is why law abiding citizens need to be armed since a huge amount of crime is drug related...addicts robbing people to get drug money...to buy drugs from gangs....when a law abiding citizen has a gun to stop the crime...they are no longer a victim...

or do you want people to be beaten, raped, robbed and murdered...due to the fact they could not defend themselves...?

• 
  
• 
  
• 

Nope I want to focus on the problems, not selling more guns. You will never arm enough people to make gang members get real jobs. There will always be people who don't want to carry guns. The more guns out there the more accidental shootings we will have. We should be focusing on how to keep people from joining gangs.

 

[Brain357]

WI passed concealed carry and crime went up. That's a fact.

And I showed you it can take between 2-5 years...that is a fact...how long has it been for Wisconsin....or for Chicago that passed concealed carry in January...and violent crime is down 22%...

Yes you are pretty clear that you will wait until the rate goes down and then claim it. WI goes up and no it takes 5 years for it to work. Chicago goes down and you claim it right away. That is a joke.

 

[2aguy]

Here is another fact...allowing guns in bars..reduced gun violence in bars...

Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants - Richmond Times-Dispatch Archive

You will never arm enough people to make gang members get real jobs.

Wow...some incite...and a definite reason to keep guns in the hands of innocent, law abiding citizens...since the criminals will always be present...

There will always be people who don't want to carry guns.

Yes, and they don't have to thank the people who will carry guns for the blanket of protection they provide by keeping the criminals away...because they don't know exactly who will shoot and kill them if they attack...again...no thanks necessary...just leave us alone...

The more guns out there the more accidental shootings we will have.

This is factually not true...there are more guns in this country than before up from 300 million to over 310 million and less accidental shootings...so you are wrong again...

and again...we support gun safety education...to save the lives of children...the same thing fire safety education does...teach gun safety with fire safety in the elementary schools and you will have less accidental gun deaths by children...

Hmmmmm...but the gun grabbers fight to keep gun safety out of the schools....it makes one think that they prefer dead children to living children...after all...you can't generate anti gun feelings with children who aren't dead...can you...

 

[2aguy]

Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants - Richmond Times-Dispatch Archive

Virginia's bars and restaurants did not turn into shooting galleries as some had feared during the first year of a new state law that allows patrons with permits to carry concealed guns into alcohol-serving businesses, a Richmond Times-Dispatch analysis found.

The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2 percent from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011, compared with the fiscal year before the law went into effect, according to crime data compiled by Virginia State Police at the newspaper's request.

 

[Brain357]

I was curious about your blaming Democrat mayors for everything. Republican mayors are hard to find, but Miami has one. Not the largest city, but about 400,000 population. Now Jacksonville is a bigger city at about 800,000 and has a democrat mayor. Looking at violent crime and murder the Republican loses.

United States cities by crime rate - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I don't think your theory stands.

 

[Brain357]

Here is another fact...allowing guns in bars..reduced gun violence in bars...

Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants - Richmond Times-Dispatch Archive

You will never arm enough people to make gang members get real jobs.

Wow...some incite...and a definite reason to keep guns in the hands of innocent, law abiding citizens...since the criminals will always be present...

There will always be people who don't want to carry guns.

Yes, and they don't have to thank the people who will carry guns for the blanket of protection they provide by keeping the criminals away...because they don't know exactly who will shoot and kill them if they attack...again...no thanks necessary...just leave us alone...

The more guns out there the more accidental shootings we will have.

This is factually not true...there are more guns in this country than before up from 300 million to over 310 million and less accidental shootings...so you are wrong again...

and again...we support gun safety education...to save the lives of children...the same thing fire safety education does...teach gun safety with fire safety in the elementary schools and you will have less accidental gun deaths by children...

Hmmmmm...but the gun grabbers fight to keep gun safety out of the schools....it makes one think that they prefer dead children to living children...after all...you can't generate anti gun feelings with children who aren't dead...can you...

I should have said if the ownership rate goes up we will have more accidental shootings. The rate has gone down, but gun owners own more guns.

 

[Brain357]

Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants - Richmond Times-Dispatch Archive

Virginia's bars and restaurants did not turn into shooting galleries as some had feared during the first year of a new state law that allows patrons with permits to carry concealed guns into alcohol-serving businesses, a Richmond Times-Dispatch analysis found.

The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2 percent from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011, compared with the fiscal year before the law went into effect, according to crime data compiled by Virginia State Police at the newspaper's request.

So this one doesn't take 5 years to have an effect? Go figure. But if it had gone down in 5 years you'd have claimed it.

 

[Unkotare]

Why do you think guns are the answer when other countries like Denmark have lower crime rates and hardly any guns? Shouldn't that be a hint more guns isn't the answer? We have the most guns, yet we are far from the lowest crime rates. These things should tell you more guns aren't the answer, just more accidental shootings.

Brilliant! You have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that wooden shoes are the key to lower crime rates!

No I proved that the feckless braying of the socialist cult, wherein they dismiss the obvious, is nonsense.

While you proved that you're a troll with little means to challenge that reasoning.

Congrats! Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

Who the fuck was even talking to you, ass-breath?

 

[2aguy]

Hmmm...what do criminals say about armed citizens...they are the professionals...right?

TEN MYTHS ABOUT GUN CONTROL

Research conducted by Professors James Wright and Peter Rossi,6 for a landmark study funded by the U.S. Department of Justice, points to the armed citizen as possibly the most effective deterrent to crime in the nation. Wright and Rossi questioned over 1,800 felons serving time in prisons across the nation and found:

• 81% agreed the "smart criminal" will try to find out if a potential victim is armed.
• 74% felt that burglars avoided occupied dwellings for fear of being shot.
• 80% of "handgun predators" had encountered armed citizens.
• 40% did not commit a specific crime for fear that the victim was armed.
• 34% of "handgun predators" were scared off or shot at by armed victims.
• 57% felt that the typical criminal feared being shot by citizens more than he feared being shot by police.

So...the real experts have spoken...

 

[Unkotare]

...Japan has literally no guns for private civilians.....

That's not true.

Really, you are going to try to pedal that here...really?

You were factually wrong in your categorical statement, that's all.

 

[2aguy]

The rate has gone down, but gun owners own more guns.

Brain...I wouldn't trust that stat...in the age of obama...do you really think most gun owners are going to tell these government agencies if they own guns or not...

Analysis Fewer U.S. gun owners own more guns - CNN.com

The data, collected by the Injury Prevention Journal, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, the General Social Survey and population figures from the U.S. Census Bureau, found that the number of U.S. households with guns has declined, but current gun owners are gathering more guns.

Yes...gun owners who don't trust gun grabbers are just going to open up about their ownership of guns to the U.N....and the Census Bureau...really? Try again Brain...

 

[2aguy]

You were factually wrong in your categorical statement, that's all.

No, I am factually correct...it is almost impossible for the citizens of Japan to own guns...so they don't....

 

[2aguy]

A more intelligent look at gun ownership rates in America...

Mythbusting Gun Ownership Is On the Decline in the U.S. - The Truth About Guns

1. Given the current environment and concern about Government oversight, NSA spying, etc, I would suggest that if people are going to lie during a poll, they are more likely to say that they don’t own a gun when they do as opposed to saying that they do own a gun when they don’t. I would argue that the number of people who don’t fess up to owning a gun may very well result in a few percentage points of error in the poll.

2. The results of the GSS and Gallup polls differ by nine points, which could be related to their respective polling methods. The GSS conducts all polls in face to face interviews while Gallup uses phone based ones. People who might already be reluctant to admit to owning a gun at all are likely to be even more reluctant to do it in a face-to-face situation.

1. Gun sales are up and have been for a number of years. Certainly a good percentage of this increase is attributable to existing gun owners adding to their collections and the proposed anti-gun legislation in early 2013 certainly stoked the fires. On the other hand, the number of NRA instructors certified to teach the basic NRA classes has increased by nearly 66% over the past five years. Experienced gun owners adding to their collections generally don’t drive demand for introductory courses. New gun owners do.

Yes, there is one major poll that concludes that gun ownership is on the decline, but a second major poll sharply disagrees with that conclusion and the increases in NICS checks and number of certified NRA instructors certainly suggests a conclusion other than what the Times arrived at.

 

[Unkotare]

You were factually wrong in your categorical statement, that's all.

No, I am factually correct...it is almost impossible for the citizens of Japan to own guns...so they don't....

You are not factually correct. You said "literally." Do you know what that means? Here's a hint, it leaves no room for "almost." Just be more careful when making categorical claims in the future.

 

[Andylusion]

Well, another anti gunner victory...no one in this situation had a gun...so the woman was viciously beaten for her purse by three men....she didn't have a gun....neither did they....an anti gunner paradise....

the attack was,caught on video....it shows how vicious the attack was....

Trio of Black New York Men Beat Hispanic Woman in Robbery Attempt

The other two then swarm around her trying to pry her wrap around purse from her body as she lay helpless on the sidewalk. Two of them men drag her several feet by the purse strap.

"I just remember the whole attack, and for them leaving me, I remember them just dragging me, and then I started yelling for someone to help me," Reyes told CBS. "And then that's when I realized blood was coming from my face, but I didn't know where from my face."

The victim's father said that his daughter was traumatized by the attack.

"And her jeans were covered in blood and her sneakers were covered in blood," Jay Reyes said.

I can see that this is so much better...sure, she might have been killed, she might have been beaten into a coma...but it is better for society that she just take the beating...quietly, and without fuss, so that the anti gunners can feel safe....better 1000 innocent people be raped, robbed, brutally beaten or killed, than one criminal be shot....

Right?

While I don't think getting rid of guns eliminates crime, I also don't think more guns eliminates crime. If more guns did that we would by far have the least crime in the world right? We certainly have the most guns. You work at some gun company cause you seem like a gun salesman.

No. We have the most guns in total number, but we have the fewest armed people than ever before.

If your next door neighbor has 200 guns, and you, and the other 49 people on your street all have zero guns, guess how much of a deterrent that is for criminals? None.

It's when everyone is armed, that engaging in criminal activity becomes hazardous.

Households with guns, is now down in the low 30% range.

Now of course, criminals are not reporting their ownership of guns. That's why you find drug runners with a half dozen guns in the trunk of a car. Obviously those are not reflected in the survey.

So while the total number of guns per capita in the US is high. The number of actually armed lawful citizens has drastically declined.

Further, being able to use the gun in self defense, is different than simply owning it.

For example the lady in the article here. She may have owned a gun, but couldn't carry it loaded legally. Thus her merely owning the gun sitting at home, with a safety lock, and stashed in a gun safe, with ammo stored in a separate location (as leftist have said we need to do), does her zero good when walking down the street and brutalized by thugs.

Worse a criminal can sue the guy who shoots him, if he violated the law by carrying a weapon illegally. It shouldn't be surprising to think that knowing this emboldens criminals.

I believe without a doubt, that if people ditched their pro-lemming culture and armed themselves with guns, and if the government stopped restricting and penalizing people for defending themselves, that crime would almost disappear in our country.

 

[Brain357]

The rate has gone down, but gun owners own more guns.

Brain...I wouldn't trust that stat...in the age of obama...do you really think most gun owners are going to tell these government agencies if they own guns or not...

Analysis Fewer U.S. gun owners own more guns - CNN.com

The data, collected by the Injury Prevention Journal, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, the General Social Survey and population figures from the U.S. Census Bureau, found that the number of U.S. households with guns has declined, but current gun owners are gathering more guns.

Yes...gun owners who don't trust gun grabbers are just going to open up about their ownership of guns to the U.N....and the Census Bureau...really? Try again Brain...

Funny how you deny stats whenever they go against your agenda. Sorry but you just can't do that.

 

[Brain357]

Well, another anti gunner victory...no one in this situation had a gun...so the woman was viciously beaten for her purse by three men....she didn't have a gun....neither did they....an anti gunner paradise....

the attack was,caught on video....it shows how vicious the attack was....

Trio of Black New York Men Beat Hispanic Woman in Robbery Attempt

The other two then swarm around her trying to pry her wrap around purse from her body as she lay helpless on the sidewalk. Two of them men drag her several feet by the purse strap.

"I just remember the whole attack, and for them leaving me, I remember them just dragging me, and then I started yelling for someone to help me," Reyes told CBS. "And then that's when I realized blood was coming from my face, but I didn't know where from my face."

The victim's father said that his daughter was traumatized by the attack.

"And her jeans were covered in blood and her sneakers were covered in blood," Jay Reyes said.

I can see that this is so much better...sure, she might have been killed, she might have been beaten into a coma...but it is better for society that she just take the beating...quietly, and without fuss, so that the anti gunners can feel safe....better 1000 innocent people be raped, robbed, brutally beaten or killed, than one criminal be shot....

Right?

While I don't think getting rid of guns eliminates crime, I also don't think more guns eliminates crime. If more guns did that we would by far have the least crime in the world right? We certainly have the most guns. You work at some gun company cause you seem like a gun salesman.

No. We have the most guns in total number, but we have the fewest armed people than ever before.

If your next door neighbor has 200 guns, and you, and the other 49 people on your street all have zero guns, guess how much of a deterrent that is for criminals? None.

It's when everyone is armed, that engaging in criminal activity becomes hazardous.

Households with guns, is now down in the low 30% range.

Now of course, criminals are not reporting their ownership of guns. That's why you find drug runners with a half dozen guns in the trunk of a car. Obviously those are not reflected in the survey.

So while the total number of guns per capita in the US is high. The number of actually armed lawful citizens has drastically declined.

Further, being able to use the gun in self defense, is different than simply owning it.

For example the lady in the article here. She may have owned a gun, but couldn't carry it loaded legally. Thus her merely owning the gun sitting at home, with a safety lock, and stashed in a gun safe, with ammo stored in a separate location (as leftist have said we need to do), does her zero good when walking down the street and brutalized by thugs.

Worse a criminal can sue the guy who shoots him, if he violated the law by carrying a weapon illegally. It shouldn't be surprising to think that knowing this emboldens criminals.

I believe without a doubt, that if people ditched their pro-lemming culture and armed themselves with guns, and if the government stopped restricting and penalizing people for defending themselves, that crime would almost disappear in our country.

You better talk to Bill about the ownership rate. He disagrees with you completely.

More guns is not going to lower crime. We have more guns than any other country in the world. You can look at countries or states. Some countries with very few guns have much lower crime than us. Some states with low ownership rates have lower crime rates than states with much higher gun ownership.

And there are a lot of people who don't want to carry guns, the majority by far of US citizens.