12.8 million Americans carry guns for self defense….and crime is down again in 2014 says FBI...

[2aguy]

Yes…more Americans own guns….and crime is down again in the U.S. for the year 2014, the most recent year for crime stats.

FBI reports lower murder, crime rates in 2014 - CNNPolitics.com

The FBI report shows a 0.2% decline nationwide in violent crimes in 2014, with more than 11 million arrests made by police for almost a half-million violent crimes.

The report says that in 2014 the U.S. recorded the fewest murders since 2009. Most other violent crimes, such as robbery, burglary, theft and arson have declined, while aggravated assaults and rapes, which now includes a broader definition, were on the rise in 2014.

The 2014 numbers do not reflect an increase this year in murders and other violent crimes reported in some cities, such as Washington, Baltimore, Milwaukee and others.

Deputy Attorney General Sally Quillian Yates highlighted progress made for cities compared to decades past.

"We have witnessed a remarkable drop in crime since the 1980's -- both violent crime and crime overall. Entire cities have been transformed, unlocking tremendous potential and releasing a wave of prosperity," Yates said, adding that "even though crime is trending downward in most places, we are seeing pockets of rising violence in various locations across the country."

Anti gun extremists…..you can stop typing…I know…you will say this does not prove that Americans with guns lowered the crime rate……but it doesn't disprove it either, now does it.

Also….each time a state would vote to implement concealed or open carry, the anti gun extremists said it would lead to more violence, more blood in the streets and that every traffic fender bender would result in murder…..and they were wrong…..completely and utterly wrong….on all points.

No….Americans who are law abiding, normal and good people owning and carrying guns does not increase the crime rate….and in fact may actually help to lower it…more than a few studies show that it does lower crime rates…..especially for armed victims who are attacked by violent criminals…


Soooooo…good for you America….you are responsible gun owners…and you are keeping our Rights and freedom alive….

 

[bucs90]

Ok 2 things here....

1) This can't be accurate. Guns are bad mmmkay. Libs said so. So....this stat is racist.

2) Cops made 11,000,000 arrests???!!! That's....only 3% of the population. And many are repeat offenders. Which means...you have a 1% chance or so of being arrested in America...and that's almost 100% based on your choice. BUT...cops are evil and racist and we are a police state....libs said so. So this stat also can't be right. And...as libs say....cops instantly resort to deadly force so out of 11,000,000 they should've killed like 8,000,000 but apparently only kill like 500 or so.....which means the number of deadly force incidents during an arrest is like.....0.0005%.

Meaning your odds of being killed by a cop.....are so ridiculously tiny that it's not even worth talking about. Yet....that completely destroys the liberals anti cop agenda and the #BlackLivesMatter movements argument.

And thats mean because they care so much about it.

 

[dannyboys]

Yes…more Americans own guns….and crime is down again in the U.S. for the year 2014, the most recent year for crime stats.

FBI reports lower murder, crime rates in 2014 - CNNPolitics.com

The FBI report shows a 0.2% decline nationwide in violent crimes in 2014, with more than 11 million arrests made by police for almost a half-million violent crimes.

The report says that in 2014 the U.S. recorded the fewest murders since 2009. Most other violent crimes, such as robbery, burglary, theft and arson have declined, while aggravated assaults and rapes, which now includes a broader definition, were on the rise in 2014.

The 2014 numbers do not reflect an increase this year in murders and other violent crimes reported in some cities, such as Washington, Baltimore, Milwaukee and others.

Deputy Attorney General Sally Quillian Yates highlighted progress made for cities compared to decades past.

"We have witnessed a remarkable drop in crime since the 1980's -- both violent crime and crime overall. Entire cities have been transformed, unlocking tremendous potential and releasing a wave of prosperity," Yates said, adding that "even though crime is trending downward in most places, we are seeing pockets of rising violence in various locations across the country."

Anti gun extremists…..you can stop typing…I know…you will say this does not prove that Americans with guns lowered the crime rate……but it doesn't disprove it either, now does it.

Also….each time a state would vote to implement concealed or open carry, the anti gun extremists said it would lead to more violence, more blood in the streets and that every traffic fender bender would result in murder…..and they were wrong…..completely and utterly wrong….on all points.

No….Americans who are law abiding, normal and good people owning and carrying guns does not increase the crime rate….and in fact may actually help to lower it…more than a few studies show that it does lower crime rates…..especially for armed victims who are attacked by violent criminals…


Soooooo…good for you America….you are responsible gun owners…and you are keeping our Rights and freedom alive….

And look at the shit hole LIB run cities where violent crime is going up.
Then connect the dots.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Yes…more Americans own guns….and crime is down again in the U.S. for the year 2014, the most recent year for crime stats.

FBI reports lower murder, crime rates in 2014 - CNNPolitics.com

The FBI report shows a 0.2% decline nationwide in violent crimes in 2014, with more than 11 million arrests made by police for almost a half-million violent crimes.

The report says that in 2014 the U.S. recorded the fewest murders since 2009. Most other violent crimes, such as robbery, burglary, theft and arson have declined, while aggravated assaults and rapes, which now includes a broader definition, were on the rise in 2014.

The 2014 numbers do not reflect an increase this year in murders and other violent crimes reported in some cities, such as Washington, Baltimore, Milwaukee and others.

Deputy Attorney General Sally Quillian Yates highlighted progress made for cities compared to decades past.

"We have witnessed a remarkable drop in crime since the 1980's -- both violent crime and crime overall. Entire cities have been transformed, unlocking tremendous potential and releasing a wave of prosperity," Yates said, adding that "even though crime is trending downward in most places, we are seeing pockets of rising violence in various locations across the country."

Anti gun extremists…..you can stop typing…I know…you will say this does not prove that Americans with guns lowered the crime rate……but it doesn't disprove it either, now does it.

Also….each time a state would vote to implement concealed or open carry, the anti gun extremists said it would lead to more violence, more blood in the streets and that every traffic fender bender would result in murder…..and they were wrong…..completely and utterly wrong….on all points.

No….Americans who are law abiding, normal and good people owning and carrying guns does not increase the crime rate….and in fact may actually help to lower it…more than a few studies show that it does lower crime rates…..especially for armed victims who are attacked by violent criminals…


Soooooo…good for you America….you are responsible gun owners…and you are keeping our Rights and freedom alive….

Civilians can carry and use firearms for self-defense. But when police do it they're crucified.

 

[Skylar]

Yes…more Americans own guns….and crime is down again in the U.S. for the year 2014, the most recent year for crime stats.

FBI reports lower murder, crime rates in 2014 - CNNPolitics.com

The FBI report shows a 0.2% decline nationwide in violent crimes in 2014, with more than 11 million arrests made by police for almost a half-million violent crimes.

The report says that in 2014 the U.S. recorded the fewest murders since 2009. Most other violent crimes, such as robbery, burglary, theft and arson have declined, while aggravated assaults and rapes, which now includes a broader definition, were on the rise in 2014.

The 2014 numbers do not reflect an increase this year in murders and other violent crimes reported in some cities, such as Washington, Baltimore, Milwaukee and others.

Deputy Attorney General Sally Quillian Yates highlighted progress made for cities compared to decades past.

"We have witnessed a remarkable drop in crime since the 1980's -- both violent crime and crime overall. Entire cities have been transformed, unlocking tremendous potential and releasing a wave of prosperity," Yates said, adding that "even though crime is trending downward in most places, we are seeing pockets of rising violence in various locations across the country."

Anti gun extremists…..you can stop typing…I know…you will say this does not prove that Americans with guns lowered the crime rate……but it doesn't disprove it either, now does it.

Also….each time a state would vote to implement concealed or open carry, the anti gun extremists said it would lead to more violence, more blood in the streets and that every traffic fender bender would result in murder…..and they were wrong…..completely and utterly wrong….on all points.

No….Americans who are law abiding, normal and good people owning and carrying guns does not increase the crime rate….and in fact may actually help to lower it…more than a few studies show that it does lower crime rates…..especially for armed victims who are attacked by violent criminals…


Soooooo…good for you America….you are responsible gun owners…and you are keeping our Rights and freedom alive….

Crime is down everywhere. Including those states with the lowest gun ownership rates. With the average crime rates in those states with the lowest gun ownership rates being lower than than those states with the highest gun ownership rates.

Kicking the shit out of both of your assertions.

 

[2aguy]

Yes…more Americans own guns….and crime is down again in the U.S. for the year 2014, the most recent year for crime stats.

FBI reports lower murder, crime rates in 2014 - CNNPolitics.com

The FBI report shows a 0.2% decline nationwide in violent crimes in 2014, with more than 11 million arrests made by police for almost a half-million violent crimes.

The report says that in 2014 the U.S. recorded the fewest murders since 2009. Most other violent crimes, such as robbery, burglary, theft and arson have declined, while aggravated assaults and rapes, which now includes a broader definition, were on the rise in 2014.

The 2014 numbers do not reflect an increase this year in murders and other violent crimes reported in some cities, such as Washington, Baltimore, Milwaukee and others.

Deputy Attorney General Sally Quillian Yates highlighted progress made for cities compared to decades past.

"We have witnessed a remarkable drop in crime since the 1980's -- both violent crime and crime overall. Entire cities have been transformed, unlocking tremendous potential and releasing a wave of prosperity," Yates said, adding that "even though crime is trending downward in most places, we are seeing pockets of rising violence in various locations across the country."

Anti gun extremists…..you can stop typing…I know…you will say this does not prove that Americans with guns lowered the crime rate……but it doesn't disprove it either, now does it.

Also….each time a state would vote to implement concealed or open carry, the anti gun extremists said it would lead to more violence, more blood in the streets and that every traffic fender bender would result in murder…..and they were wrong…..completely and utterly wrong….on all points.

No….Americans who are law abiding, normal and good people owning and carrying guns does not increase the crime rate….and in fact may actually help to lower it…more than a few studies show that it does lower crime rates…..especially for armed victims who are attacked by violent criminals…


Soooooo…good for you America….you are responsible gun owners…and you are keeping our Rights and freedom alive….

Crime is down everywhere. Including those states with the lowest gun ownership rates. With the average crime rates in those states with the lowest gun ownership rates being lower than than those states with the highest gun ownership rates.

Kicking the shit out of both of your assertions.

Sorry, a study by the Violence Policy Center, a known rabidly anti gun organization with a history of lying in their "studies" is not kicking the shit out of anything.

Concealed carry states that have a saturation rate of about 5% like Minnesota, which just reached it and also Florida……have decreased crime rates.

You would, of course have to link to prove your assertion….but thanks for trying….

 

[Skylar]

Yes…more Americans own guns….and crime is down again in the U.S. for the year 2014, the most recent year for crime stats.

FBI reports lower murder, crime rates in 2014 - CNNPolitics.com

The FBI report shows a 0.2% decline nationwide in violent crimes in 2014, with more than 11 million arrests made by police for almost a half-million violent crimes.

The report says that in 2014 the U.S. recorded the fewest murders since 2009. Most other violent crimes, such as robbery, burglary, theft and arson have declined, while aggravated assaults and rapes, which now includes a broader definition, were on the rise in 2014.

The 2014 numbers do not reflect an increase this year in murders and other violent crimes reported in some cities, such as Washington, Baltimore, Milwaukee and others.

Deputy Attorney General Sally Quillian Yates highlighted progress made for cities compared to decades past.

"We have witnessed a remarkable drop in crime since the 1980's -- both violent crime and crime overall. Entire cities have been transformed, unlocking tremendous potential and releasing a wave of prosperity," Yates said, adding that "even though crime is trending downward in most places, we are seeing pockets of rising violence in various locations across the country."

Anti gun extremists…..you can stop typing…I know…you will say this does not prove that Americans with guns lowered the crime rate……but it doesn't disprove it either, now does it.

Also….each time a state would vote to implement concealed or open carry, the anti gun extremists said it would lead to more violence, more blood in the streets and that every traffic fender bender would result in murder…..and they were wrong…..completely and utterly wrong….on all points.

No….Americans who are law abiding, normal and good people owning and carrying guns does not increase the crime rate….and in fact may actually help to lower it…more than a few studies show that it does lower crime rates…..especially for armed victims who are attacked by violent criminals…


Soooooo…good for you America….you are responsible gun owners…and you are keeping our Rights and freedom alive….

Crime is down everywhere. Including those states with the lowest gun ownership rates. With the average crime rates in those states with the lowest gun ownership rates being lower than than those states with the highest gun ownership rates.

Kicking the shit out of both of your assertions.

Sorry, a study by the Violence Policy Center, a known rabidly anti gun organization with a history of lying in their "studies" is not kicking the shit out of anything.

Strawman. As when did I quote such a 'study' in the post you're replying to.

Shall we look at the states with the highest gun ownership rates together and see what their crime rates are? Then compare them to the states with the lowest. Top 10 vs. Lowest 10.

You know what the results are going to be.

Concealed carry states that have a saturation rate of about 5% like Minnesota, which just reached it and also Florida……have decreased crime rates.

Prove it. You're claiming a causative relationship. That concealed carry have decreased crime rates. But you can't establish causation. You merely allude to it. And none of the studies on the matter claim causation. They claim correlation.

You know the difference. But you really hope we don't.

Problem is....the States without concealed carry have seen reductions in crime as well. When the 'effect' of lower crime rates exists even when your imagined 'cause' of higher concealed carry permits doesn't.....your 'cause' isn't.

You're intentionally trying to claim causation when you know you can't prove it.

 

[2aguy]

Yes…more Americans own guns….and crime is down again in the U.S. for the year 2014, the most recent year for crime stats.

FBI reports lower murder, crime rates in 2014 - CNNPolitics.com

The FBI report shows a 0.2% decline nationwide in violent crimes in 2014, with more than 11 million arrests made by police for almost a half-million violent crimes.

The report says that in 2014 the U.S. recorded the fewest murders since 2009. Most other violent crimes, such as robbery, burglary, theft and arson have declined, while aggravated assaults and rapes, which now includes a broader definition, were on the rise in 2014.

The 2014 numbers do not reflect an increase this year in murders and other violent crimes reported in some cities, such as Washington, Baltimore, Milwaukee and others.

Deputy Attorney General Sally Quillian Yates highlighted progress made for cities compared to decades past.

"We have witnessed a remarkable drop in crime since the 1980's -- both violent crime and crime overall. Entire cities have been transformed, unlocking tremendous potential and releasing a wave of prosperity," Yates said, adding that "even though crime is trending downward in most places, we are seeing pockets of rising violence in various locations across the country."

Anti gun extremists…..you can stop typing…I know…you will say this does not prove that Americans with guns lowered the crime rate……but it doesn't disprove it either, now does it.

Also….each time a state would vote to implement concealed or open carry, the anti gun extremists said it would lead to more violence, more blood in the streets and that every traffic fender bender would result in murder…..and they were wrong…..completely and utterly wrong….on all points.

No….Americans who are law abiding, normal and good people owning and carrying guns does not increase the crime rate….and in fact may actually help to lower it…more than a few studies show that it does lower crime rates…..especially for armed victims who are attacked by violent criminals…


Soooooo…good for you America….you are responsible gun owners…and you are keeping our Rights and freedom alive….

Crime is down everywhere. Including those states with the lowest gun ownership rates. With the average crime rates in those states with the lowest gun ownership rates being lower than than those states with the highest gun ownership rates.

Kicking the shit out of both of your assertions.

Sorry, a study by the Violence Policy Center, a known rabidly anti gun organization with a history of lying in their "studies" is not kicking the shit out of anything.

Strawman. As when did I quote such a 'study' in the post you're replying to.

Shall we look at the states with the highest gun ownership rates together and see what their crime rates are? Then compare them to the states with the lowest. Top 10 vs. Lowest 10.

You know what the results are going to be.

Concealed carry states that have a saturation rate of about 5% like Minnesota, which just reached it and also Florida……have decreased crime rates.

Prove it. You're claiming a causative relationship. That concealed carry have decreased crime rates. But you can't establish causation. You merely allude to it. And none of the studies on the matter claim causation. They claim correlation.

You know the difference. But you really hope we don't.

Problem is....the States without concealed carry have seen reductions in crime as well. When the 'effect' of lower crime rates exists even when your imagined 'cause' of higher concealed carry permits doesn't.....your 'cause' isn't.

You're intentionally trying to claim causation when you know you can't prove it.

And please show us where your information comes from ….I have already pointed out it probably comes from the Violence Policy Center…an anti gun group….if it doesn't please link…..

 

[Skylar]

Yes…more Americans own guns….and crime is down again in the U.S. for the year 2014, the most recent year for crime stats.

FBI reports lower murder, crime rates in 2014 - CNNPolitics.com

The FBI report shows a 0.2% decline nationwide in violent crimes in 2014, with more than 11 million arrests made by police for almost a half-million violent crimes.

The report says that in 2014 the U.S. recorded the fewest murders since 2009. Most other violent crimes, such as robbery, burglary, theft and arson have declined, while aggravated assaults and rapes, which now includes a broader definition, were on the rise in 2014.

The 2014 numbers do not reflect an increase this year in murders and other violent crimes reported in some cities, such as Washington, Baltimore, Milwaukee and others.

Deputy Attorney General Sally Quillian Yates highlighted progress made for cities compared to decades past.

"We have witnessed a remarkable drop in crime since the 1980's -- both violent crime and crime overall. Entire cities have been transformed, unlocking tremendous potential and releasing a wave of prosperity," Yates said, adding that "even though crime is trending downward in most places, we are seeing pockets of rising violence in various locations across the country."

Anti gun extremists…..you can stop typing…I know…you will say this does not prove that Americans with guns lowered the crime rate……but it doesn't disprove it either, now does it.

Also….each time a state would vote to implement concealed or open carry, the anti gun extremists said it would lead to more violence, more blood in the streets and that every traffic fender bender would result in murder…..and they were wrong…..completely and utterly wrong….on all points.

No….Americans who are law abiding, normal and good people owning and carrying guns does not increase the crime rate….and in fact may actually help to lower it…more than a few studies show that it does lower crime rates…..especially for armed victims who are attacked by violent criminals…


Soooooo…good for you America….you are responsible gun owners…and you are keeping our Rights and freedom alive….

Crime is down everywhere. Including those states with the lowest gun ownership rates. With the average crime rates in those states with the lowest gun ownership rates being lower than than those states with the highest gun ownership rates.

Kicking the shit out of both of your assertions.

Sorry, a study by the Violence Policy Center, a known rabidly anti gun organization with a history of lying in their "studies" is not kicking the shit out of anything.

Strawman. As when did I quote such a 'study' in the post you're replying to.

Shall we look at the states with the highest gun ownership rates together and see what their crime rates are? Then compare them to the states with the lowest. Top 10 vs. Lowest 10.

You know what the results are going to be.

Concealed carry states that have a saturation rate of about 5% like Minnesota, which just reached it and also Florida……have decreased crime rates.

Prove it. You're claiming a causative relationship. That concealed carry have decreased crime rates. But you can't establish causation. You merely allude to it. And none of the studies on the matter claim causation. They claim correlation.

You know the difference. But you really hope we don't.

Problem is....the States without concealed carry have seen reductions in crime as well. When the 'effect' of lower crime rates exists even when your imagined 'cause' of higher concealed carry permits doesn't.....your 'cause' isn't.

You're intentionally trying to claim causation when you know you can't prove it.

And please show us where your information comes from ….I have already pointed out it probably comes from the Violence Policy Center…an anti gun group….if it doesn't please link…..

You haven't 'pointed' anything out. You've made an allegation you can't back up. Refuting an argument I didn't make.

And of course, you still can't establish causation between higher concealed carry permits and and lower crime rates. As lower crimes rates occur without concealed carry permits.

And you know you can't establish causation. Which is why you refused to address it.

 

[Brain357]

Yes…more Americans own guns….and crime is down again in the U.S. for the year 2014, the most recent year for crime stats.

FBI reports lower murder, crime rates in 2014 - CNNPolitics.com

The FBI report shows a 0.2% decline nationwide in violent crimes in 2014, with more than 11 million arrests made by police for almost a half-million violent crimes.

The report says that in 2014 the U.S. recorded the fewest murders since 2009. Most other violent crimes, such as robbery, burglary, theft and arson have declined, while aggravated assaults and rapes, which now includes a broader definition, were on the rise in 2014.

The 2014 numbers do not reflect an increase this year in murders and other violent crimes reported in some cities, such as Washington, Baltimore, Milwaukee and others.

Deputy Attorney General Sally Quillian Yates highlighted progress made for cities compared to decades past.

"We have witnessed a remarkable drop in crime since the 1980's -- both violent crime and crime overall. Entire cities have been transformed, unlocking tremendous potential and releasing a wave of prosperity," Yates said, adding that "even though crime is trending downward in most places, we are seeing pockets of rising violence in various locations across the country."

Anti gun extremists…..you can stop typing…I know…you will say this does not prove that Americans with guns lowered the crime rate……but it doesn't disprove it either, now does it.

Also….each time a state would vote to implement concealed or open carry, the anti gun extremists said it would lead to more violence, more blood in the streets and that every traffic fender bender would result in murder…..and they were wrong…..completely and utterly wrong….on all points.

No….Americans who are law abiding, normal and good people owning and carrying guns does not increase the crime rate….and in fact may actually help to lower it…more than a few studies show that it does lower crime rates…..especially for armed victims who are attacked by violent criminals…


Soooooo…good for you America….you are responsible gun owners…and you are keeping our Rights and freedom alive….

Crime is down everywhere. Including those states with the lowest gun ownership rates. With the average crime rates in those states with the lowest gun ownership rates being lower than than those states with the highest gun ownership rates.

Kicking the shit out of both of your assertions.

Sorry, a study by the Violence Policy Center, a known rabidly anti gun organization with a history of lying in their "studies" is not kicking the shit out of anything.

Concealed carry states that have a saturation rate of about 5% like Minnesota, which just reached it and also Florida……have decreased crime rates.

You would, of course have to link to prove your assertion….but thanks for trying….

What study supports this 5% fantasy?

 

[2aguy]

Yes…more Americans own guns….and crime is down again in the U.S. for the year 2014, the most recent year for crime stats.

FBI reports lower murder, crime rates in 2014 - CNNPolitics.com

The FBI report shows a 0.2% decline nationwide in violent crimes in 2014, with more than 11 million arrests made by police for almost a half-million violent crimes.

The report says that in 2014 the U.S. recorded the fewest murders since 2009. Most other violent crimes, such as robbery, burglary, theft and arson have declined, while aggravated assaults and rapes, which now includes a broader definition, were on the rise in 2014.

The 2014 numbers do not reflect an increase this year in murders and other violent crimes reported in some cities, such as Washington, Baltimore, Milwaukee and others.

Deputy Attorney General Sally Quillian Yates highlighted progress made for cities compared to decades past.

"We have witnessed a remarkable drop in crime since the 1980's -- both violent crime and crime overall. Entire cities have been transformed, unlocking tremendous potential and releasing a wave of prosperity," Yates said, adding that "even though crime is trending downward in most places, we are seeing pockets of rising violence in various locations across the country."

Anti gun extremists…..you can stop typing…I know…you will say this does not prove that Americans with guns lowered the crime rate……but it doesn't disprove it either, now does it.

Also….each time a state would vote to implement concealed or open carry, the anti gun extremists said it would lead to more violence, more blood in the streets and that every traffic fender bender would result in murder…..and they were wrong…..completely and utterly wrong….on all points.

No….Americans who are law abiding, normal and good people owning and carrying guns does not increase the crime rate….and in fact may actually help to lower it…more than a few studies show that it does lower crime rates…..especially for armed victims who are attacked by violent criminals…


Soooooo…good for you America….you are responsible gun owners…and you are keeping our Rights and freedom alive….

Crime is down everywhere. Including those states with the lowest gun ownership rates. With the average crime rates in those states with the lowest gun ownership rates being lower than than those states with the highest gun ownership rates.

Kicking the shit out of both of your assertions.

Sorry, a study by the Violence Policy Center, a known rabidly anti gun organization with a history of lying in their "studies" is not kicking the shit out of anything.

Strawman. As when did I quote such a 'study' in the post you're replying to.

Shall we look at the states with the highest gun ownership rates together and see what their crime rates are? Then compare them to the states with the lowest. Top 10 vs. Lowest 10.

You know what the results are going to be.

Concealed carry states that have a saturation rate of about 5% like Minnesota, which just reached it and also Florida……have decreased crime rates.

Prove it. You're claiming a causative relationship. That concealed carry have decreased crime rates. But you can't establish causation. You merely allude to it. And none of the studies on the matter claim causation. They claim correlation.

You know the difference. But you really hope we don't.

Problem is....the States without concealed carry have seen reductions in crime as well. When the 'effect' of lower crime rates exists even when your imagined 'cause' of higher concealed carry permits doesn't.....your 'cause' isn't.

You're intentionally trying to claim causation when you know you can't prove it.

And please show us where your information comes from ….I have already pointed out it probably comes from the Violence Policy Center…an anti gun group….if it doesn't please link…..

You haven't 'pointed' anything out. You've made an allegation you can't back up. Refuting an argument I didn't make.

And of course, you still can't establish causation between higher concealed carry permits and and lower crime rates. As lower crimes rates occur without concealed carry permits.

And you know you can't establish causation. Which is why you refused to address it.

And here is the actual research showing that concealed carry lowers the crime rate…..

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

Lott...list of papers...

Of course, the single paper that Shermer cites was mentioned and discussed at length in the review of the literature that Lott provided in More Guns, Less Crime (click on screen shots to make them larger). Unfortunately, Scientific American wasn’t willing to allow a link to this list of papers.



Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

 

[Skylar]

And I ask again....shall we compare average crime rate of the top 10 states with the highest gun ownership rates with the bottom 10 states with the lowest gun ownership rates.

If more guns means less crime.....then it should be an obvious win for you. Yet every time I ask you if you want compare them......you try and change the subject.

Why is that? Don't you have confidence in your premise?

 

[Brain357]

Crime is down everywhere. Including those states with the lowest gun ownership rates. With the average crime rates in those states with the lowest gun ownership rates being lower than than those states with the highest gun ownership rates.

Kicking the shit out of both of your assertions.

Sorry, a study by the Violence Policy Center, a known rabidly anti gun organization with a history of lying in their "studies" is not kicking the shit out of anything.

Strawman. As when did I quote such a 'study' in the post you're replying to.

Shall we look at the states with the highest gun ownership rates together and see what their crime rates are? Then compare them to the states with the lowest. Top 10 vs. Lowest 10.

You know what the results are going to be.

Concealed carry states that have a saturation rate of about 5% like Minnesota, which just reached it and also Florida……have decreased crime rates.

Prove it. You're claiming a causative relationship. That concealed carry have decreased crime rates. But you can't establish causation. You merely allude to it. And none of the studies on the matter claim causation. They claim correlation.

You know the difference. But you really hope we don't.

Problem is....the States without concealed carry have seen reductions in crime as well. When the 'effect' of lower crime rates exists even when your imagined 'cause' of higher concealed carry permits doesn't.....your 'cause' isn't.

You're intentionally trying to claim causation when you know you can't prove it.

And please show us where your information comes from ….I have already pointed out it probably comes from the Violence Policy Center…an anti gun group….if it doesn't please link…..

You haven't 'pointed' anything out. You've made an allegation you can't back up. Refuting an argument I didn't make.

And of course, you still can't establish causation between higher concealed carry permits and and lower crime rates. As lower crimes rates occur without concealed carry permits.

And you know you can't establish causation. Which is why you refused to address it.

And here is the actual research showing that concealed carry lowers the crime rate…..

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

Lott...list of papers...

Of course, the single paper that Shermer cites was mentioned and discussed at length in the review of the literature that Lott provided in More Guns, Less Crime (click on screen shots to make them larger). Unfortunately, Scientific American wasn’t willing to allow a link to this list of papers.



Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

Most by lott who is pretty much disgraced for making up survey results.

 

[Skylar]

Crime is down everywhere. Including those states with the lowest gun ownership rates. With the average crime rates in those states with the lowest gun ownership rates being lower than than those states with the highest gun ownership rates.

Kicking the shit out of both of your assertions.

Sorry, a study by the Violence Policy Center, a known rabidly anti gun organization with a history of lying in their "studies" is not kicking the shit out of anything.

Strawman. As when did I quote such a 'study' in the post you're replying to.

Shall we look at the states with the highest gun ownership rates together and see what their crime rates are? Then compare them to the states with the lowest. Top 10 vs. Lowest 10.

You know what the results are going to be.

Concealed carry states that have a saturation rate of about 5% like Minnesota, which just reached it and also Florida……have decreased crime rates.

Prove it. You're claiming a causative relationship. That concealed carry have decreased crime rates. But you can't establish causation. You merely allude to it. And none of the studies on the matter claim causation. They claim correlation.

You know the difference. But you really hope we don't.

Problem is....the States without concealed carry have seen reductions in crime as well. When the 'effect' of lower crime rates exists even when your imagined 'cause' of higher concealed carry permits doesn't.....your 'cause' isn't.

You're intentionally trying to claim causation when you know you can't prove it.

And please show us where your information comes from ….I have already pointed out it probably comes from the Violence Policy Center…an anti gun group….if it doesn't please link…..

You haven't 'pointed' anything out. You've made an allegation you can't back up. Refuting an argument I didn't make.

And of course, you still can't establish causation between higher concealed carry permits and and lower crime rates. As lower crimes rates occur without concealed carry permits.

And you know you can't establish causation. Which is why you refused to address it.

And here is the actual research showing that concealed carry lowers the crime rate…..

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

Lott...list of papers...

Of course, the single paper that Shermer cites was mentioned and discussed at length in the review of the literature that Lott provided in More Guns, Less Crime (click on screen shots to make them larger). Unfortunately, Scientific American wasn’t willing to allow a link to this list of papers.



Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

And quote your study claiming causation. even John R. Lott.....whose studies are paid for by the gun industry, doesn't claim causation. He claims correlation. You're spamming a block of links to studies you've never read, you can't quote....and that don't back your claims.

QUOTE the studies where they establish causation. As remember, the National Academy of Sciences has rejected Mr. Lott's methodology as lacking evidence for causation.

So let me guess.....the National Academy of Science contradicts you. So now you ignore the National Academy of Science. Have you ever heard of the cherry picking fallacy? Confirmation bias?

Because you're living it.

 

[Skylar]

Sorry, a study by the Violence Policy Center, a known rabidly anti gun organization with a history of lying in their "studies" is not kicking the shit out of anything.

Strawman. As when did I quote such a 'study' in the post you're replying to.

Shall we look at the states with the highest gun ownership rates together and see what their crime rates are? Then compare them to the states with the lowest. Top 10 vs. Lowest 10.

You know what the results are going to be.

Concealed carry states that have a saturation rate of about 5% like Minnesota, which just reached it and also Florida……have decreased crime rates.

Prove it. You're claiming a causative relationship. That concealed carry have decreased crime rates. But you can't establish causation. You merely allude to it. And none of the studies on the matter claim causation. They claim correlation.

You know the difference. But you really hope we don't.

Problem is....the States without concealed carry have seen reductions in crime as well. When the 'effect' of lower crime rates exists even when your imagined 'cause' of higher concealed carry permits doesn't.....your 'cause' isn't.

You're intentionally trying to claim causation when you know you can't prove it.

And please show us where your information comes from ….I have already pointed out it probably comes from the Violence Policy Center…an anti gun group….if it doesn't please link…..

You haven't 'pointed' anything out. You've made an allegation you can't back up. Refuting an argument I didn't make.

And of course, you still can't establish causation between higher concealed carry permits and and lower crime rates. As lower crimes rates occur without concealed carry permits.

And you know you can't establish causation. Which is why you refused to address it.

And here is the actual research showing that concealed carry lowers the crime rate…..

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

Lott...list of papers...

Of course, the single paper that Shermer cites was mentioned and discussed at length in the review of the literature that Lott provided in More Guns, Less Crime (click on screen shots to make them larger). Unfortunately, Scientific American wasn’t willing to allow a link to this list of papers.



Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

Most by lott who is pretty much disgraced for making up survey results.

Don't you mean Mary Rosh? John Lott's sock puppet. You can always tell when a man knows his argument is shit when he has to invent people that support him.

But Mary Rosh simply gushed about Lott, his books, his genius and how right he must be. Its odd to watch someone give themself a reach around.

 

[2aguy]

Sorry, a study by the Violence Policy Center, a known rabidly anti gun organization with a history of lying in their "studies" is not kicking the shit out of anything.

Strawman. As when did I quote such a 'study' in the post you're replying to.

Shall we look at the states with the highest gun ownership rates together and see what their crime rates are? Then compare them to the states with the lowest. Top 10 vs. Lowest 10.

You know what the results are going to be.

Concealed carry states that have a saturation rate of about 5% like Minnesota, which just reached it and also Florida……have decreased crime rates.

Prove it. You're claiming a causative relationship. That concealed carry have decreased crime rates. But you can't establish causation. You merely allude to it. And none of the studies on the matter claim causation. They claim correlation.

You know the difference. But you really hope we don't.

Problem is....the States without concealed carry have seen reductions in crime as well. When the 'effect' of lower crime rates exists even when your imagined 'cause' of higher concealed carry permits doesn't.....your 'cause' isn't.

You're intentionally trying to claim causation when you know you can't prove it.

And please show us where your information comes from ….I have already pointed out it probably comes from the Violence Policy Center…an anti gun group….if it doesn't please link…..

You haven't 'pointed' anything out. You've made an allegation you can't back up. Refuting an argument I didn't make.

And of course, you still can't establish causation between higher concealed carry permits and and lower crime rates. As lower crimes rates occur without concealed carry permits.

And you know you can't establish causation. Which is why you refused to address it.

And here is the actual research showing that concealed carry lowers the crime rate…..

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

Lott...list of papers...

Of course, the single paper that Shermer cites was mentioned and discussed at length in the review of the literature that Lott provided in More Guns, Less Crime (click on screen shots to make them larger). Unfortunately, Scientific American wasn’t willing to allow a link to this list of papers.



Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

And quote your study claiming causation. even John R. Lott.....whose studies are paid for by the gun industry, doesn't claim causation. He claims correlation. You're spamming a block of links to studies you've never read, you can't quote....and that don't back your claims.

QUOTE the studies where they establish causation. As remember, the National Academy of Sciences has rejected Mr. Lott's methodology as lacking evidence for causation.

So let me guess.....the National Academy of Science contradicts you. So now you ignore the National Academy of Science. Have you ever heard of the cherry picking fallacy? Confirmation bias?

Because you're living it.

John Lott is not paid by the gun industry…that is a lie. And please link to the National Academy of Sciences that disputes Lott…..that would be helpful…….

And of course Lott isn't the only study to show this as that long list of studies show…and Lott didn't cherry pick his data…he looked at every single county in the United States….where as the anti gun researchers actually do cherry pick their info.

 

[2aguy]

Sorry, a study by the Violence Policy Center, a known rabidly anti gun organization with a history of lying in their "studies" is not kicking the shit out of anything.

Strawman. As when did I quote such a 'study' in the post you're replying to.

Shall we look at the states with the highest gun ownership rates together and see what their crime rates are? Then compare them to the states with the lowest. Top 10 vs. Lowest 10.

You know what the results are going to be.

Concealed carry states that have a saturation rate of about 5% like Minnesota, which just reached it and also Florida……have decreased crime rates.

Prove it. You're claiming a causative relationship. That concealed carry have decreased crime rates. But you can't establish causation. You merely allude to it. And none of the studies on the matter claim causation. They claim correlation.

You know the difference. But you really hope we don't.

Problem is....the States without concealed carry have seen reductions in crime as well. When the 'effect' of lower crime rates exists even when your imagined 'cause' of higher concealed carry permits doesn't.....your 'cause' isn't.

You're intentionally trying to claim causation when you know you can't prove it.

And please show us where your information comes from ….I have already pointed out it probably comes from the Violence Policy Center…an anti gun group….if it doesn't please link…..

You haven't 'pointed' anything out. You've made an allegation you can't back up. Refuting an argument I didn't make.

And of course, you still can't establish causation between higher concealed carry permits and and lower crime rates. As lower crimes rates occur without concealed carry permits.

And you know you can't establish causation. Which is why you refused to address it.

And here is the actual research showing that concealed carry lowers the crime rate…..

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

Lott...list of papers...

Of course, the single paper that Shermer cites was mentioned and discussed at length in the review of the literature that Lott provided in More Guns, Less Crime (click on screen shots to make them larger). Unfortunately, Scientific American wasn’t willing to allow a link to this list of papers.



Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

Most by lott who is pretty much disgraced for making up survey results.

Do you anti gun extremists have to lie about everything….Lott and Kleck and the other gun researchers are not the ones lying…..the anti gun researchers constantly make up studies that lie because they can't get the truth to comport with their desire to ban guns...

 

[2aguy]

And I ask again....shall we compare average crime rate of the top 10 states with the highest gun ownership rates with the bottom 10 states with the lowest gun ownership rates.

If more guns means less crime.....then it should be an obvious win for you. Yet every time I ask you if you want compare them......you try and change the subject.

Why is that? Don't you have confidence in your premise?

You have yet to link to that information…..can't find the Violence Policy Center study….? That is actually a piece of crap…….

 

[2aguy]

And I ask again....shall we compare average crime rate of the top 10 states with the highest gun ownership rates with the bottom 10 states with the lowest gun ownership rates.

If more guns means less crime.....then it should be an obvious win for you. Yet every time I ask you if you want compare them......you try and change the subject.

Why is that? Don't you have confidence in your premise?

Try linking to that info…..let's see it……because most of the time they have to include suicides to get the gun homicide numbers up……and of course when you look at cities, your concept falls apart because the cities with the strictest gun control laws have the highest gun murder rates….D.C., Chicago, Baltimore….