12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

[AzogtheDefiler]

PTSD is real and sad. Our vets need help. Those poor victims. Should never have happened.

The frustrating thing is -- how do we improve it?

Vets that come back from overseas need to have consistent medical tests and their guns must be taken away until they are given a 100% bill of health. If they show ANY signs of PTSD they should immediately be placed under medical care, medications monitored and GUNS TAKEN AWAY!!!

Really? How many Vets are there in this country....and as of this shooting, how many Veterans stage mass public shootings...? Please.....we will wait for your answer.....

Smearing Veterans is typical of left wing haters......

I am Saying only those who show signs of PTSD. My post was not clear. My apologies.

 

[2aguy]

Agreed. It's nobody's fault be his. No need for senseless partisan mud slinging.

No need for anything at all. Get more guns into circulation until massacres happen often enough that nobody even bothers reporting about them.

Moron.....gun murder goes down when more Americans own and carry guns....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Guns in fewer households since then

Of course, with over 400 million guns in the country, it is easier for a criminal to get a gun here than anywhere in the world.

Not true.....

NBC Poll: Does Gun Ownership Increase Or Decrease Safety? Anti-Gun Activists Won't Like The Results.

nearly 6 in 10 Americans believe that getting guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens increases safety.

"In the poll, 58 percent agree with the statement that gun ownership does more to increase safety by allowing law-abiding citizens to protect themselves," NBC News reports. "By contrast, 38 percent say that gun ownership reduces safety by giving too many people access to firearms, increasing the chances for accidental misuse."

------

NBC notes that the overall result is a "reversal" of the findings of a 1999 survey that found that 52 percent of respondents believed gun ownership reduced safety. The more positive perspective on gun ownership is partly reflected in gun ownership trends: "47 percent of American adults say they have a firearm in the household, which is up from 44 percent in 1999."

Dude just go give a murderer a gun. You know you want to. You can come on here when they’re finished and demand more guns become available to him.

The democrat party politicians, judges and lawyers constantly release violent, known, repeat gun offenders on the street, and you accuse me of wanting criminals to have guns? Are you this stupid in real life, or only when you post?

 

[OldLady]

I was talking about a metal detector being a solution at bars.

Or how about we actually treat mental illness

You obviously haven't read the thread. That's okay. It was someone else's idea. I am 100% behind the obvious solution of treating mental illness and making it harder for a mentally ill person with homicidal ideation to keep wandering the community unsupervised and untreated, as is his "right."
I feel for veterans who come home torn up psychologically. A lot of people go into the service for the career and educational opportunities they offer, and some just to get a JOB.

No "right" exists without responsibility on the part of the holder. The irresponsible do not have rights. The responsible have the obligation of aiding the irresponsible, as well as the 'right' to protect themselves form irresponsible acts.

Show me the actual legislation and the votes for it. I can show you where Dem judges prefer to release the mentally ill, rather than get them in hospital help.

Don’t go there, Old Lady. It is a problem, both left and right. Trying to blame one side is ridiculous. I could just as easily state that the lefts policies are responsible, but won’t, because it is a problem with all govt.

Our Sheriff calls our local jail the detox center. And it is. When I was in social work, the waiting list for a substance abuse counselor was months long. The wait to become a suboxone patient was months long, as well. I hope that has gotten better, but it isn't likely with all the cuts to mental health funding that have been enacted by the Republicans over the past eight years here. Fortunately, we just did a clean sweep and got them outta here.

Sadly, it was our Republican governor and legislature (in OUR state) that made sure health benefits were cut.

The problem is not just funding, I know. Back to the specific case, as a vet he hopefully had help available if he chose to use it. If less than a year ago he was in a crisis and his guns were not temporarily taken, there is something wrong. Guns and mental health crises do not go together.

Stupid Liberals don't think that guns and Liberty go together, do they? Our Founding Fathers did but modern day idiot Liberals don't think so.

Flash, I have a right to want safety, too. Don't I? It isn't idiotic to want to end mass shootings where innocent unarmed people minding their own business are gunned down with increasing frequency. If it isn't the guns at fault, what is? Just calling liberals "stupid" for being concerned is not going to solve the problem. Next time, it could be in your town, or one of your kids. No one wants it to happen again, but the longer we keep ignoring the problem, the more it is going to happen. Which we have already seen.

 

[2aguy]

Doesn’t California have the best gun laws?

This couldn’t have happened in California because liberals have made California a perfect state.

It is Nevada and Arizona fault... Wait, it is Trump fault... Wait, it is Bush jr. fault... Wait, is Hitler allow?

You forgot the AR-15


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't remind the anti gunners....the guy didn't use an AR-15 last night...he used a pistol...so they are pretty upset that he was inconsiderate enough to not use an AR-15...now they don't have a way to push banning AR-15s...... that was really inconsiderate of him...

 

[Asclepias]

PTSD is real and sad. Our vets need help. Those poor victims. Should never have happened.

The frustrating thing is -- how do we improve it?

More money into healthcare. Regan is the cause of that money disappearing.

No...he wasn't....

yes he was.

U01: Ronald Reagan and the Federal Deinstitutionalization of Mentally Ill Patients | PSY 533: Ethics and Leadership (Wheeler)

"What Reagan is not readily known for is the long term effect of a law he repealed that essentially deinstitutionalized mentally ill patients at the federal level (Roberts, 2013). While some of his fiscal policies had a positive effect on the U.S. economy during the 1980s, his decision to deinstitutionalize mentally ill patients had a much more deleterious effect on these patients, their communities, and the agencies that were left to contend with these individuals’ mental health issues (Honberg, 2015)"

 

[OldLady]

11:15 p.m. last night. Twelve dead, and they are still counting. Dead include the gunman, who went into a local Country-Western bar & grill having it's weekly College Night and began by shooting the security guard and cashier, then entered and began spraying bullets at college students with his rapid fire gun. Twelve dead include one of the first deputies on the scene.

Thousand Oaks is considered one of the safest communities in the country. Just like Parkland was.

People, it is time we stopped talking and started doing something about this. It is beyond ridiculous that we are no longer safe to go grocery shopping, pray in our church, go to yoga class, or to a bar to dance. Or to work. Or to school.

Something has to be done to stop this. Not just talk this time. It is time to actually do something. January approaches. Make sure your legislators know what you think will help make this country SAFE AGAIN.

California has some of the strictest gun laws, so what do you propose that can fix the issue?

We could do it, but not overnight, if we focused on severely limiting the violence in our entertainment and teaching kids from the time they can hit that killing other humans is the lowest thing you can do, including screwing your sister (in other words, taboo).

I don't think somebody screwing their sister was the root cause the shooting last night.

Well, that's one thing off the list.

And yet that is your first damn thought!

Fuck the Second Amendment.
Fuck you, too.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

PTSD is real and sad. Our vets need help. Those poor victims. Should never have happened.

The frustrating thing is -- how do we improve it?

More money into healthcare. Regan is the cause of that money disappearing.

No...he wasn't....

yes he was.

U01: Ronald Reagan and the Federal Deinstitutionalization of Mentally Ill Patients | PSY 533: Ethics and Leadership (Wheeler)

"What Reagan is not readily known for is the long term effect of a law he repealed that essentially deinstitutionalized mentally ill patients at the federal level (Roberts, 2013). While some of his fiscal policies had a positive effect on the U.S. economy during the 1980s, his decision to deinstitutionalize mentally ill patients had a much more deleterious effect on these patients, their communities, and the agencies that were left to contend with these individuals’ mental health issues (Honberg, 2015)"

Why are we discussing the 80s? Let’s deal in the now.

 

[pismoe]

Don’t go there, Old Lady. It is a problem, both left and right. Trying to blame one side is ridiculous. I could just as easily state that the lefts policies are responsible, but won’t, because it is a problem with all govt.

Incarcerated? Getting a mental health hold on those that are known to be a danger is next to impossible in this country. In a hospital, not a jail cell, where so many end up.

Our Sheriff calls our local jail the detox center. And it is. When I was in social work, the waiting list for a substance abuse counselor was months long. The wait to become a suboxone patient was months long, as well. I hope that has gotten better, but it isn't likely with all the cuts to mental health funding that have been enacted by the Republicans over the past eight years here. Fortunately, we just did a clean sweep and got them outta here.

Sadly, it was our Republican governor and legislature (in OUR state) that made sure health benefits were cut.

------------------------------------------------- GOOD , last thing i'd want to do is pay money to head or mental health doktors , social workers and other silly experts that speculate and guess as they waste time to stay on the gravy train and act important OldLady .

Even coming from you, that is a really stupid thing to say. And your attitude is a great example of why so many mentally ill people are walking around untreated and unsupervised.

----------------------------------------------- yeah , i guess that Americans of ALL types are FREE until they break the law eh OldLady , !! [feck those that Dress and express unAmerican points of view from the USSR eh OldLady]

 

[Asclepias]

PTSD is real and sad. Our vets need help. Those poor victims. Should never have happened.

The frustrating thing is -- how do we improve it?

More money into healthcare. Regan is the cause of that money disappearing.

No...he wasn't....

yes he was.

U01: Ronald Reagan and the Federal Deinstitutionalization of Mentally Ill Patients | PSY 533: Ethics and Leadership (Wheeler)

"What Reagan is not readily known for is the long term effect of a law he repealed that essentially deinstitutionalized mentally ill patients at the federal level (Roberts, 2013). While some of his fiscal policies had a positive effect on the U.S. economy during the 1980s, his decision to deinstitutionalize mentally ill patients had a much more deleterious effect on these patients, their communities, and the agencies that were left to contend with these individuals’ mental health issues (Honberg, 2015)"

Why are we discussing the 80s? Let’s deal in the now.

Because he lied and said Regan wasnt the cause.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

California has some of the strictest gun laws, so what do you propose that can fix the issue?

A proper LIbEral response would be to call for even more of the same poison that is causing the sickness in the first place.

I am actually very liberal in my views but not Progressive...

The issue with those like the OP is when they can not get their way they want big brother to fix it and for that to happen they will need enough votes in the Senate along with the White House and States to approve a new amendment which will never happen.

So as Old Lady pushes her agenda of more strict Federal Laws the reality is they will not stop a damn thing because criminals do not obey laws ever!

What laws do you think I'm proposing? If gun control isn't the answer, there must be another answer, because these mass shootings are not acceptable and they are not normal everyday business as usual in any other developed country in the world.

What gun control law that CA doesn't have would have prevented this shooting?

And why do states with very lax gun control laws have much lower murder rates than CA?

It ain't guns the American society has a cancer that is spreading and no where is the disease more evident than in the ultra violent urban areas and the violence and crime that emanates from them in numbers large enough to skew the murder rate for the entire country

You all know that I believe in super duper gun restriction/confiscation and to pretty much go full Australia on your ass. But in this thread, I am keeping that idea on the shelf, because you all apparently think there must be another way to stop this mass shooting violence that is becoming more and more frequent. We just had eleven killed in synagogue in Pittsburgh less than two weeks ago. Now a dozen people in So. Cal out for a little fun with friends at a country western bar.

Unless maybe y'all DON'T care. If we don't focus on guns themselves, which you seem so sure is not the problem, what ELSE could the problem be and how can it be fixed?

Alright let me explain this to you:

1. America is the third largest country in population ( China and India are ahead of us. ) and has 50 States in the union with some that have populations bigger many Countries around the damn world, so mass killings will happen.

2. For you to change the damn Constitution you need the Senate votes, The Oval Office and the Majority of the Damn States to go along, so I guess that is not happening...

3. Passing new gun control laws with Trump appointing Conservative Judges to the USSC will cause the laws to be struck down.


Now you know damn well California has strict laws already, so why didn't the criminal follow the law?

Simple, laws do not matter to those assholes.

The solution?

Simple, realize the size of the country you live in and understand that mass shootings will happen or do not and cry about how big brother should do like China and take all our rights away...

Wait, if you wish for that then Trump could have you arrested for calling him Hitler...

 

[MrShangles]

Another mass shooter known to authorities. Obviously we cannot trust the authorities.

I don't think they like to prosecute white men.
They like to let them slide.
Then things like this happens.
This is like the 4th in a row, in like, 2 weeks.

Sanctuary state,and lots of anti gun laws, and you point out white men?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[2aguy]

Yep....it was a gun free zone..again..

Massacre at Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks, California was in another Gun-free zone: 12 murdered, 18 injured - Crime Prevention Research Center

 

[JimH52]

The frustrating thing is -- how do we improve it?

Vets that come back from overseas need to have consistent medical tests and their guns must be taken away until they are given a 100% bill of health. If they show ANY signs of PTSD they should immediately be placed under medical care, medications monitored and GUNS TAKEN AWAY!!!

How very liberal gun-grabber of you!

I am neither a liberal nor a gun grabber. Those who have a mental illness should not own guns. PTSD is a mental illness.

Well, when the president himself shows signs of mental illness....good luck...

Trump Undid Obama Rule That Added Mentally Ill People to Gun Check Register

Is he walking around with guns? What are you talking about? He is actually always surrounded by those who are well trained in using guns. Are you mentally ill too?

trump is just another pawn for the NRA...a mentally deranged pawn....

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

California has some of the strictest gun laws, so what do you propose that can fix the issue?

We could do it, but not overnight, if we focused on severely limiting the violence in our entertainment and teaching kids from the time they can hit that killing other humans is the lowest thing you can do, including screwing your sister (in other words, taboo).

I don't think somebody screwing their sister was the root cause the shooting last night.

Well, that's one thing off the list.

And yet that is your first damn thought!

Fuck the Second Amendment.
Fuck you, too.

Well let get rid of the first amendment while at it so you can control what others write...

Your answer is ban all guns because MSM tell you they are the root of all evil but you know freedom of speech is a bigger cause of concern, so let ban that first!

 

[2aguy]

Vets that come back from overseas need to have consistent medical tests and their guns must be taken away until they are given a 100% bill of health. If they show ANY signs of PTSD they should immediately be placed under medical care, medications monitored and GUNS TAKEN AWAY!!!

How very liberal gun-grabber of you!

I am neither a liberal nor a gun grabber. Those who have a mental illness should not own guns. PTSD is a mental illness.

Well, when the president himself shows signs of mental illness....good luck...

Trump Undid Obama Rule That Added Mentally Ill People to Gun Check Register

Is he walking around with guns? What are you talking about? He is actually always surrounded by those who are well trained in using guns. Are you mentally ill too?

trump is just another pawn for the NRA...a mentally deranged pawn....

The NRA? You mean the organization that likely helped train the police who stop mass shooters? Or the NRA who trains civilians in gun safety?

Versus the democrat party, that uses its political power to let repeat, violent, known, gun offenders out of jail over and over again?

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Living with his mother, and likely ptsd.

 

[BlackFlag]

No need for anything at all. Get more guns into circulation until massacres happen often enough that nobody even bothers reporting about them.

Moron.....gun murder goes down when more Americans own and carry guns....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Guns in fewer households since then

Of course, with over 400 million guns in the country, it is easier for a criminal to get a gun here than anywhere in the world.

Not true.....

NBC Poll: Does Gun Ownership Increase Or Decrease Safety? Anti-Gun Activists Won't Like The Results.

nearly 6 in 10 Americans believe that getting guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens increases safety.

"In the poll, 58 percent agree with the statement that gun ownership does more to increase safety by allowing law-abiding citizens to protect themselves," NBC News reports. "By contrast, 38 percent say that gun ownership reduces safety by giving too many people access to firearms, increasing the chances for accidental misuse."

------

NBC notes that the overall result is a "reversal" of the findings of a 1999 survey that found that 52 percent of respondents believed gun ownership reduced safety. The more positive perspective on gun ownership is partly reflected in gun ownership trends: "47 percent of American adults say they have a firearm in the household, which is up from 44 percent in 1999."

Dude just go give a murderer a gun. You know you want to. You can come on here when they’re finished and demand more guns become available to him.

The democrat party politicians, judges and lawyers constantly release violent, known, repeat gun offenders on the street, and you accuse me of wanting criminals to have guns? Are you this stupid in real life, or only when you post?

You have worked tirelessly to flood the nation with guns, and your solution to that is to inflate our already planet leading percentage of incarcerated citizens? Many of them in there, btw, in large part because of how easy it was for them to get a gun.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

California mass shooting gunman identified

"The suspect behind America’s latest mass shooting has been identified as Ian David Long, who law enforcement officials have accused of killing at least 12 people inside the Borderline Bar & Grill in California.

The gunman, identified by NBC News as a heavily-tattooed, 28-year-old white male, used a .45 caliber handgun and was found dead after storming the bar that’s commonly frequented by country music fans on Wednesday nights. Details surrounding the suspect began flooding in from neighbours who told ABC News he was a veteran who may have suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Police said he was an ex-Marine who had multiple run-ins with law enforcement in recent years and likely shot himself Wednesday night in the bar."

Now we have a little more information about the shooter, not much information about what lead him to do it -- seems at this point it is mental illness -- I have also seen others speculate that since he was wearing black and targeted country music fans -- he may be ANTIFA..

It's possible but as of now we have no proof.

 

[pismoe]

Or how about we actually treat mental illness

You obviously haven't read the thread. That's okay. It was someone else's idea. I am 100% behind the obvious solution of treating mental illness and making it harder for a mentally ill person with homicidal ideation to keep wandering the community unsupervised and untreated, as is his "right."
I feel for veterans who come home torn up psychologically. A lot of people go into the service for the career and educational opportunities they offer, and some just to get a JOB.

No "right" exists without responsibility on the part of the holder. The irresponsible do not have rights. The responsible have the obligation of aiding the irresponsible, as well as the 'right' to protect themselves form irresponsible acts.

Show me the actual legislation and the votes for it. I can show you where Dem judges prefer to release the mentally ill, rather than get them in hospital help.

Don’t go there, Old Lady. It is a problem, both left and right. Trying to blame one side is ridiculous. I could just as easily state that the lefts policies are responsible, but won’t, because it is a problem with all govt.

Sadly, it was our Republican governor and legislature (in OUR state) that made sure health benefits were cut.

The problem is not just funding, I know. Back to the specific case, as a vet he hopefully had help available if he chose to use it. If less than a year ago he was in a crisis and his guns were not temporarily taken, there is something wrong. Guns and mental health crises do not go together.

Stupid Liberals don't think that guns and Liberty go together, do they? Our Founding Fathers did but modern day idiot Liberals don't think so.

Flash, I have a right to want safety, too. Don't I? It isn't idiotic to want to end mass shootings where innocent unarmed people minding their own business are gunned down with increasing frequency. If it isn't the guns at fault, what is? Just calling liberals "stupid" for being concerned is not going to solve the problem. Next time, it could be in your town, or one of your kids. No one wants it to happen again, but the longer we keep ignoring the problem, the more it is going to happen. Which we have already seen.

----------------------------------------- there is a cost to being FREE and like i have said , over 320 million people ate supper , went to bed and have since awakened and have gone to work or school OldLady

 

[OldLady]

PTSD is real and sad. Our vets need help. Those poor victims. Should never have happened.

The frustrating thing is -- how do we improve it?

There was a whole lot of it after WWII as well. People just didn't know what to call it. The vets eventually coped with it (a lot by "burying it" I think--how many times have you heard of a WWII vet "he NEVER talked about it.") War and the general "brainwashing" required to be in the military makes it hard to reenter civilian life. I think the military is trying, though, to be more proactive. I know that a friend's daughter, who is on a military base with her husband, had a lot of support when her husband came back from a deployment with PTSD and was abusive to her, drinking heavily, etc. It wasn't like him at all. They helped a lot (although he was not real happy about it at first). Where they were on base and he was still active, they could control things. With vets it's a whole nother story.