12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Or how about we actually treat mental illness

You obviously haven't read the thread. That's okay. It was someone else's idea. I am 100% behind the obvious solution of treating mental illness and making it harder for a mentally ill person with homicidal ideation to keep wandering the community unsupervised and untreated, as is his "right."
I feel for veterans who come home torn up psychologically. A lot of people go into the service for the career and educational opportunities they offer, and some just to get a JOB.

No "right" exists without responsibility on the part of the holder. The irresponsible do not have rights. The responsible have the obligation of aiding the irresponsible, as well as the 'right' to protect themselves form irresponsible acts.

Show me the actual legislation and the votes for it. I can show you where Dem judges prefer to release the mentally ill, rather than get them in hospital help.

Don’t go there, Old Lady. It is a problem, both left and right. Trying to blame one side is ridiculous. I could just as easily state that the lefts policies are responsible, but won’t, because it is a problem with all govt.

Sadly, it was our Republican governor and legislature (in OUR state) that made sure health benefits were cut.

The problem is not just funding, I know. Back to the specific case, as a vet he hopefully had help available if he chose to use it. If less than a year ago he was in a crisis and his guns were not temporarily taken, there is something wrong. Guns and mental health crises do not go together.

Stupid Liberals don't think that guns and Liberty go together, do they? Our Founding Fathers did but modern day idiot Liberals don't think so.

Flash, I have a right to want safety, too. Don't I? It isn't idiotic to want to end mass shootings where innocent unarmed people minding their own business are gunned down with increasing frequency. If it isn't the guns at fault, what is? Just calling liberals "stupid" for being concerned is not going to solve the problem. Next time, it could be in your town, or one of your kids. No one wants it to happen again, but the longer we keep ignoring the problem, the more it is going to happen. Which we have already seen.

Again, you are not Liberal at all and in fact you would restrict more than gun rights and that is the fact.

You hate freedom of speech and many other things, so calling yourself liberal is insulting liberal minded people like me.

Your safety is your issue and not mine not anyone else. You can not be protected all the time and removing one took to kill will just cause the killer to find something else.

I know you are so narrow minded and will tell me once guns are gone mass killings will end, but I can point to many times in recent history that killers do not care what tool they use.

Now go scream at those hunters in Maine and tell them they are evil while you enjoy that steak tonight that was raised in cruel conditions and you should see the weapon they use on them to kill the cow with...

 

[hunarcy]

Doesn’t California have the best gun laws?

This couldn’t have happened in California because liberals have made California a perfect state.

It's against the law to take a firearm to a bar.

not everywhere

Where in California is it legal to carry a firearm into a bar (unless you are a LEO)

you didn't specify CA in your post did you?

No you didn't

If you don't have the reading comprehension to get the inference, I think you should sue the school you attended and recover your parents' money.

 

[Asclepias]

Another mass shooter known to authorities. Obviously we cannot trust the authorities.

I don't think they like to prosecute white men.
They like to let them slide.
Then things like this happens.
This is like the 4th in a row, in like, 2 weeks.

Sanctuary state,and lots of anti gun laws, and you point out white men?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well it does appear to be an issue with white men. You dont see other races continually walking into bars, movie theaters, churches etc, and killing a bunch of people.

 

[2aguy]

Moron.....gun murder goes down when more Americans own and carry guns....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Guns in fewer households since then

Of course, with over 400 million guns in the country, it is easier for a criminal to get a gun here than anywhere in the world.

Not true.....

NBC Poll: Does Gun Ownership Increase Or Decrease Safety? Anti-Gun Activists Won't Like The Results.

nearly 6 in 10 Americans believe that getting guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens increases safety.

"In the poll, 58 percent agree with the statement that gun ownership does more to increase safety by allowing law-abiding citizens to protect themselves," NBC News reports. "By contrast, 38 percent say that gun ownership reduces safety by giving too many people access to firearms, increasing the chances for accidental misuse."

------

NBC notes that the overall result is a "reversal" of the findings of a 1999 survey that found that 52 percent of respondents believed gun ownership reduced safety. The more positive perspective on gun ownership is partly reflected in gun ownership trends: "47 percent of American adults say they have a firearm in the household, which is up from 44 percent in 1999."

Dude just go give a murderer a gun. You know you want to. You can come on here when they’re finished and demand more guns become available to him.

The democrat party politicians, judges and lawyers constantly release violent, known, repeat gun offenders on the street, and you accuse me of wanting criminals to have guns? Are you this stupid in real life, or only when you post?

You have worked tirelessly to flood the nation with guns, and your solution to that is to inflate our already planet leading percentage of incarcerated citizens? Many of them in there, btw, in large part because of how easy it was for them to get a gun.

Sorry.....the democrat party isn't keeping the violent, repeat, known gun offenders in prison...they actively try to get their sentences reduced...

Here....in California, no less....notice that it is the NRA trying to keep gun criminals in jail while the democrats are opening the doors...

California Democrats hate the gun, not the gunman – Orange County Register

Now that Democrats have supermajorities in the California state Legislature, they’ve rolled into Sacramento with a zest for lowering the state’s prison population and have interpreted St. Augustine’s words of wisdom to mean, “Hate the gun, not the gunman.”

I say this because, once they finally took a break from preaching about the benefits of stricter gun control, the state Senate voted to loosen sentencing guidelines for criminals convicted of gun crimes.

Currently, California law requires anyone who uses a gun while committing a felony to have their sentence increased by 10 years or more in prison — on top of the normal criminal penalty. If enacted, Senate Bill 620 would eliminate that mandate.

The bill, which passed on a 22-14 party-line vote, with support only from Democrats, now heads to the state Assembly for consideration.

Republicans and the National Rifle Association have vowed to campaign against it.

Why have Democrats suddenly developed a soft spot for criminals convicted of gun crimes? The bill’s author, state Sen. Steve Bradford, D-Gardena, says that he was motivated to write the bill after a 17-year-old riding in a car involved in a drive-by shooting was sentenced to 25 years in prison, even though he claims that he wasn’t the one who pulled the trigger.

and for all those anti-gunners who want to know where criminals get guns....well...this law lowers the prison time for those who give guns to criminals.....

Why is that?

Prop. 57, for example, very deceptively and fundamentally changed the definition of what constitutes a “non-violent” offense.


supplying a firearm to a gang member,

l
felon obtaining a firearm,

discharging a firearm on school grounds

 

[2aguy]

Another mass shooter known to authorities. Obviously we cannot trust the authorities.

I don't think they like to prosecute white men.
They like to let them slide.
Then things like this happens.
This is like the 4th in a row, in like, 2 weeks.

Sanctuary state,and lots of anti gun laws, and you point out white men?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well it does appear to be an issue with white men. You dont see other races continually walking into bars, movie theaters, churches etc, and killing a bunch of people.

Of the 10,982 gun murders in this country, the majority are committed by minorities in democrat party controlled voting districts....that is a fact.....that is an issue with democrats....

Analysis | The surprising way gun violence is dividing America

In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

------

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

For the last gotdamn time, this country has got to come to grips with white men and mass murder. While this country falls prey to Trumps fears of Muslims, illegals and XXXXX...white men are becoming America's worst fuckin nightmare. These men, all of them give signs of aggression and every single time, its over looked and placed on the back burner, because white men are just going through a bad day, their having mental issues, the eternal white man's burden.....Its time to seriously profile white men in this country or expect this shit to continue...treat these mf's like you treat a nigga with skittles in his hands.

This is racist....I looked at this guy's Instagram feed and he doesn't have any pics of him looking like, you know....one of those thugs....

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Another mass shooter known to authorities. Obviously we cannot trust the authorities.

If he was Black they would have planted some crack on him and he would already be in prison. They need to start doing the same to white males.

Has any black man not smoked crack?

If you are going to be racist -- at least make some sort of sense....

 

[pismoe]

We could do it, but not overnight, if we focused on severely limiting the violence in our entertainment and teaching kids from the time they can hit that killing other humans is the lowest thing you can do, including screwing your sister (in other words, taboo).

I don't think somebody screwing their sister was the root cause the shooting last night.

Well, that's one thing off the list.

And yet that is your first damn thought!

Fuck the Second Amendment.
Fuck you, too.

Well let get rid of the first amendment while at it so you can control what others write...

Your answer is ban all guns because MSM tell you they are the root of all evil but you know freedom of speech is a bigger cause of concern, so let ban that first!

------------------------- respectfully , but its my opinion that they don't want to ban ALL guns at this moment but they do want to ban the effective guns useful for Americans but which also can be misused Bruce . [same as a car or van being misused]---------------- just a comment .

 

[Asclepias]

Another mass shooter known to authorities. Obviously we cannot trust the authorities.

I don't think they like to prosecute white men.
They like to let them slide.
Then things like this happens.
This is like the 4th in a row, in like, 2 weeks.

Sanctuary state,and lots of anti gun laws, and you point out white men?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well it does appear to be an issue with white men. You dont see other races continually walking into bars, movie theaters, churches etc, and killing a bunch of people.

Of the 10,982 gun murders in this country, the majority are committed by minorities in democrat party controlled voting districts....that is a fact.....that is an issue with democrats....

Analysis | The surprising way gun violence is dividing America

In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

------

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas.

Its a white boy problem.

You dont see other races continually walking into bars, movie theaters, churches etc, and killing a bunch of people.

 

[2aguy]

PTSD is real and sad. Our vets need help. Those poor victims. Should never have happened.

The frustrating thing is -- how do we improve it?

There was a whole lot of it after WWII as well. People just didn't know what to call it. The vets eventually coped with it (a lot by "burying it" I think--how many times have you heard of a WWII vet "he NEVER talked about it.") War and the general "brainwashing" required to be in the military makes it hard to reenter civilian life. I think the military is trying, though, to be more proactive. I know that a friend's daughter, who is on a military base with her husband, had a lot of support when her husband came back from a deployment with PTSD and was abusive to her, drinking heavily, etc. It wasn't like him at all. They helped a lot (although he was not real happy about it at first). Where they were on base and he was still active, they could control things. With vets it's a whole nother story.

No...being in the military doesn't make it harder to be in civilian life..... that is a lie the left wing has perpetrated because they hate the military...if you look at any statistics, especially from Vietnam....let alone World War 2, you will find that veterans outperformed their civilian counterparts in every way.....you really have to stop buying the left wing crap.

 

[2aguy]

Another mass shooter known to authorities. Obviously we cannot trust the authorities.

I don't think they like to prosecute white men.
They like to let them slide.
Then things like this happens.
This is like the 4th in a row, in like, 2 weeks.

Sanctuary state,and lots of anti gun laws, and you point out white men?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well it does appear to be an issue with white men. You dont see other races continually walking into bars, movie theaters, churches etc, and killing a bunch of people.

Of the 10,982 gun murders in this country, the majority are committed by minorities in democrat party controlled voting districts....that is a fact.....that is an issue with democrats....

Analysis | The surprising way gun violence is dividing America

In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

------

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas.

Its a white boy problem.

You dont see other races continually walking into bars, movie theaters, churches etc, and killing a bunch of people.

Except for the long island train shooter? The D.C snipers? The Navy Yard shooter? Fort Hood? San Bernadino? The Dallas black lives matter shooter? The Virginia Tech Shooter? The Pulse Night club shooter?

 

[Asclepias]

PTSD is real and sad. Our vets need help. Those poor victims. Should never have happened.

The frustrating thing is -- how do we improve it?

There was a whole lot of it after WWII as well. People just didn't know what to call it. The vets eventually coped with it (a lot by "burying it" I think--how many times have you heard of a WWII vet "he NEVER talked about it.") War and the general "brainwashing" required to be in the military makes it hard to reenter civilian life. I think the military is trying, though, to be more proactive. I know that a friend's daughter, who is on a military base with her husband, had a lot of support when her husband came back from a deployment with PTSD and was abusive to her, drinking heavily, etc. It wasn't like him at all. They helped a lot (although he was not real happy about it at first). Where they were on base and he was still active, they could control things. With vets it's a whole nother story.

No...being in the military doesn't make it harder to be in civilian life..... that is a lie the left wing has perpetrated because they hate the military...if you look at any statistics, especially from Vietnam....let alone World War 2, you will find that veterans outperformed their civilian counterparts in every way.....you really have to stop buying the left wing crap.

Youre an idiot.

Of course its harder for someone to deal with civilian life after being exposed to combat and military life.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

I don't think somebody screwing their sister was the root cause the shooting last night.

Well, that's one thing off the list.

And yet that is your first damn thought!

Fuck the Second Amendment.
Fuck you, too.

Well let get rid of the first amendment while at it so you can control what others write...

Your answer is ban all guns because MSM tell you they are the root of all evil but you know freedom of speech is a bigger cause of concern, so let ban that first!

------------------------- respectfully , but its my opinion that they don't want to ban ALL guns at this moment but they do want to ban the effective guns useful for Americans but which also can be misused Bruce . [same as a car or van being misused]---------------- just a comment .

If she had her way she would ban all guns and then freedom of speech...

Personally I hope she get what she wishes for because the tyranny that will spring from it will make her wish for Trump to be President...

 

[pismoe]

You obviously haven't read the thread. That's okay. It was someone else's idea. I am 100% behind the obvious solution of treating mental illness and making it harder for a mentally ill person with homicidal ideation to keep wandering the community unsupervised and untreated, as is his "right."
I feel for veterans who come home torn up psychologically. A lot of people go into the service for the career and educational opportunities they offer, and some just to get a JOB.

No "right" exists without responsibility on the part of the holder. The irresponsible do not have rights. The responsible have the obligation of aiding the irresponsible, as well as the 'right' to protect themselves form irresponsible acts.

Show me the actual legislation and the votes for it. I can show you where Dem judges prefer to release the mentally ill, rather than get them in hospital help.

Sadly, it was our Republican governor and legislature (in OUR state) that made sure health benefits were cut.

The problem is not just funding, I know. Back to the specific case, as a vet he hopefully had help available if he chose to use it. If less than a year ago he was in a crisis and his guns were not temporarily taken, there is something wrong. Guns and mental health crises do not go together.

Stupid Liberals don't think that guns and Liberty go together, do they? Our Founding Fathers did but modern day idiot Liberals don't think so.

Flash, I have a right to want safety, too. Don't I? It isn't idiotic to want to end mass shootings where innocent unarmed people minding their own business are gunned down with increasing frequency. If it isn't the guns at fault, what is? Just calling liberals "stupid" for being concerned is not going to solve the problem. Next time, it could be in your town, or one of your kids. No one wants it to happen again, but the longer we keep ignoring the problem, the more it is going to happen. Which we have already seen.

Again, you are not Liberal at all and in fact you would restrict more than gun rights and that is the fact.

You hate freedom of speech and many other things, so calling yourself liberal is insulting liberal minded people like me.

Your safety is your issue and not mine not anyone else. You can not be protected all the time and removing one took to kill will just cause the killer to find something else.

I know you are so narrow minded and will tell me once guns are gone mass killings will end, but I can point to many times in recent history that killers do not care what tool they use.

Now go scream at those hunters in Maine and tell them they are evil while you enjoy that steak tonight that was raised in cruel conditions and you should see the weapon they use on them to kill the cow with...

---------------------------------------------------------- yeah , she does hate FREEDOM of SPEECH as the Old Woman does cry about certain terms because she doesn't like the terms . [pretty funny] Anti gun and anti Free Speech do go together eh ??

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

California mass shooting gunman identified

"The suspect behind America’s latest mass shooting has been identified as Ian David Long, who law enforcement officials have accused of killing at least 12 people inside the Borderline Bar & Grill in California.

The gunman, identified by NBC News as a heavily-tattooed, 28-year-old white male, used a .45 caliber handgun and was found dead after storming the bar that’s commonly frequented by country music fans on Wednesday nights. Details surrounding the suspect began flooding in from neighbours who told ABC News he was a veteran who may have suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Police said he was an ex-Marine who had multiple run-ins with law enforcement in recent years and likely shot himself Wednesday night in the bar."

Now we have a little more information about the shooter, not much information about what lead him to do it -- seems at this point it is mental illness -- I have also seen others speculate that since he was wearing black and targeted country music fans -- he may be ANTIFA..

Or he may be a republican thinking the club was filled with Jews.
You know how violent Republicans are. Just listen to what Trump says.

Interesting that the synagogue shooter only shared the viewpoints of democrats...since they too hate Trump, which he did, and the democrat party hates Isreal, which he did....the other shooters...the bernie sanders supporter who shot up the republican baseball team, and the black lives matter shooters who have murdered at least 9 police officers...not one Republican in the mix.....

He didn't hate Trump --- he hated the "JEWS" around Trump -- he felt Trump was not anti-Semitic enough....

Let me know when a democrat blamed the migrant caravan on jews?

I'll wait while you deflect...

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

I don't think they like to prosecute white men.
They like to let them slide.
Then things like this happens.
This is like the 4th in a row, in like, 2 weeks.

Sanctuary state,and lots of anti gun laws, and you point out white men?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well it does appear to be an issue with white men. You dont see other races continually walking into bars, movie theaters, churches etc, and killing a bunch of people.

Of the 10,982 gun murders in this country, the majority are committed by minorities in democrat party controlled voting districts....that is a fact.....that is an issue with democrats....

Analysis | The surprising way gun violence is dividing America

In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

------

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas.

Its a white boy problem.

You dont see other races continually walking into bars, movie theaters, churches etc, and killing a bunch of people.

Except for the long island train shooter? The D.C snipers? The Navy Yard shooter? Fort Hood? San Bernadino? The Dallas black lives matter shooter? The Virginia Tech Shooter? The Pulse Night club shooter?

You listed 8 different mass shootings over the span of the last 20 years...

We damn near had 8 mass shootings just this past year

 

[airplanemechanic]

The liberals got just what they wanted. Nobody armed to stop this guy so nobody was killed in the "crossfire."

Congrats liberals. Nobody could own a gun in there so nobody could stop him from having his way with everyone. More blood on liberals hands.

 

[Asclepias]

I don't think they like to prosecute white men.
They like to let them slide.
Then things like this happens.
This is like the 4th in a row, in like, 2 weeks.

Sanctuary state,and lots of anti gun laws, and you point out white men?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well it does appear to be an issue with white men. You dont see other races continually walking into bars, movie theaters, churches etc, and killing a bunch of people.

Of the 10,982 gun murders in this country, the majority are committed by minorities in democrat party controlled voting districts....that is a fact.....that is an issue with democrats....

Analysis | The surprising way gun violence is dividing America

In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

------

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas.

Its a white boy problem.

You dont see other races continually walking into bars, movie theaters, churches etc, and killing a bunch of people.

Except for the long island train shooter? The D.C snipers? The Navy Yard shooter? Fort Hood? San Bernadino? The Dallas black lives matter shooter? The Virginia Tech Shooter? The Pulse Night club shooter?

Mind you this doesnt include this years totals

Why are white men more likely to carry out mass shootings?

"Of 95 mass shootings carried out in the US between 1982 and 2017, 92 of the perpetrators were male."

"The shootings broken down by race, by Statista, show that 54 of the gunmen were white, 16 black, and seven each Latino or Asian."

 

[Asclepias]

The liberals got just what they wanted. Nobody armed to stop this guy so nobody was killed in the "crossfire."

Congrats liberals. Nobody could own a gun in there so nobody could stop him from having his way with everyone. More blood on liberals hands.

There were off duty cops there.

 

[Skull Pilot]

in california with some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation
what more do you want

ALL your guns...now....regardless of your rights, the rare nature of mass shootings and the leftist policies that nurture these violent acts.

"RARE" nature of mass shootings no longer flies, sad as that is.

99 times more people are murdered outside of mass shooting events

so if 1% isn't rare what is?

2 in two weeks isn't "rare."

Still only counts as 1% of all murders