12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

[MisterBeale]

OL is doing pretty good by herself, tho, she's hanging in there by herself, agree or disagree with her position. Good battles, OL. The glory isn't really in the victory or the defeat. It's in the charge. Know what I mean?

 

[Skull Pilot]

If everyone is free no one will be safe

those are your words not mine.

Read through this link, then get back to me:

SparkNotes: Lord of the Flies

I read the actual book maybe you should too instead of having someone else read it for you and then tell you what it means

I too read the book, and watched the movie too. Your comment is stupid, unless you think (lol) that I needed to post the entire book. IF you read the book, you might understand why I referenced it.

All you had to do was reference it

no link to someone else's interpretation was necessary

Obviously you believe my comment was only for you, it was not, it was posted since not everyone has read, or recalls the takeaway from the book.

you replied to me who the fuck else did want to read it

Hint

Don't quote a person if you are not addressing him directly

 

[EverCurious]

Yeah. I talk a lot of shit about fighting back against they tyrants just on principle alone, but you're right, we're too far gone. Our government has been lost for a long time. We're 22 trillion in debt, our dollar is worth 4 cents, the market is gonna collapse by default any year now, and given the dependence on the massive welfare state we run, when the government runs out of money to steal and when they've totally devalued the dollar to the point that they cant print any more, when the people have nothing else to lose, they'll lose it in the streets. Notwithstanding the fact that we've drifted into a true police state. I wanna be as far away from that as possible. Personally, I plan on being out of the country before they finally tank it. I'm prepared to make the move, and I will. Though, I was hoping they'd get their wall up sooner to keep the zombies and the jackboots contained.

There's too many other nice countries in the world to want to hang around this powder keg. And it's all manufactured from the top down. The more I think on it, the more I believe they want to use the media to create unrest and to go after the guns because they know they can't keep patching that bubble. It's literally the biggest bubbe in the history if mankind. There will be civil unrrest, the likes this country has never known.

I plan to be on the outside and watching the smoke rise from afar. Maybe sipping on those blue fruity things with the little pink umbrellas in em.

I partially agree, but I think you are being naive.

When the US goes, the rest of the world is going with it.

See my post above son. You're right, the world it going with the US, but we will make it through, after the left and the idiots turn on each other and kill each other for not agreeing 100%... We will survive, they will not.

There is no, "us and them," we are one.

We are all one human family, together we stand, or we fall.

Yeah, no sorry. I'm done with the bullshit game sorry. I refuse to be lumped in with these violent abusive fucks who think that we shouldn't have free speech, a means to defend ourselves (2nd), and fucking due process, who think that my fucking pocket book is theirs to raid, who think that my entire family deserves to die simply for having American ideals about real liberty.

I am /not/ one with them and if that means we fall, then by fuck all we're falling because I will /not/ put my life in the hands of a violent fascist mob, period. I am a free American woman and I will never be under the thumb of vile people. I will die first. My husband will have my full fucking support to take out as many as possible if/when they come for us - presuming we don't get the fuck out of this failed state before then.

OldLady and people like her ARE NOT "violent fascist mob."

They are our fellow humans beings, our countrymen, and need protection too.

You read this, then tell me if they are the enemy, or victims.

Propaganda by Edward Bernays (1928)

And what do we do with victims, let them die, or save them?

Nope, there's a certain grade of shit which I flush twice just to get rid of the stench. There is no saving these people, they're fucking lost, hell most of them can't even form their own thoughts anyway. I mean, maybe it's my syn (crossed senses, I 'feel' in color) but its like throwing away a bunch of broken cell phones in my eyes. They have zero respect for other people, other American's, anyone but themselves. Sorry, there was a time when I was a centrist, but I'm not anymore, center is now the left and I'm not left, I'm now "far right" because they tipped the scales so bad. The left, through their leaders and their followers, have proven themselves a violent and dangerous bunch who'd just as soon have us slaughtered in the streets for disagreeing with them, than to even give the slightest consideration for our opinions and beliefs.

If you'd like to try to pet the rabid dog, do feel free, but I'm sick and tired of having my hand mangled. Imagine that scene with Old Yeller, that's where I'm at. They either need be left to die of their disease or, if they attack, put out of their misery.

 

[MisterBeale]

I partially agree, but I think you are being naive.

When the US goes, the rest of the world is going with it.

See my post above son. You're right, the world it going with the US, but we will make it through, after the left and the idiots turn on each other and kill each other for not agreeing 100%... We will survive, they will not.

There is no, "us and them," we are one.

We are all one human family, together we stand, or we fall.

Yeah, no sorry. I'm done with the bullshit game sorry. I refuse to be lumped in with these violent abusive fucks who think that we shouldn't have free speech, a means to defend ourselves (2nd), and fucking due process, who think that my fucking pocket book is theirs to raid, who think that my entire family deserves to die simply for having American ideals about real liberty.

I am /not/ one with them and if that means we fall, then by fuck all we're falling because I will /not/ put my life in the hands of a violent fascist mob, period. I am a free American woman and I will never be under the thumb of vile people. I will die first. My husband will have my full fucking support to take out as many as possible if/when they come for us - presuming we don't get the fuck out of this failed state before then.

OldLady and people like her ARE NOT "violent fascist mob."

They are our fellow humans beings, our countrymen, and need protection too.

You read this, then tell me if they are the enemy, or victims.

Propaganda by Edward Bernays (1928)

And what do we do with victims, let them die, or save them?

Nope, there's a certain grade of shit which I flush twice just to get rid of the stench. There is no saving these people, they're fucking lost, hell most of them can't even form their own thoughts anyway. I mean, maybe it's my syn (crossed senses, I 'feel' in color) but its like throwing away a bunch of broken cell phones in my eyes. They have zero respect for other people, other American's, anyone but themselves. Sorry, there was a time when I was a centrist, but I'm not anymore, center is now the left and I'm not left, I'm now "far right" because they tipped the scales so bad. The left, through their leaders and their followers, have proven themselves a violent and dangerous bunch who'd just as soon have us slaughtered in the streets for disagreeing with them, than to even give the slightest consideration for our opinions and beliefs.

If you'd like to try to pet the rabid dog, do feel free, but I'm sick and tired of having my hand mangled. Imagine that scene with Old Yeller, that's where I'm at. They either need be left to die of their disease or, if they attack, put out of their misery.

Even if it turned out to be your children, grand children, nieces or nephews?

 

[MisterBeale]

Three things will happen.

1) We will find out everyone in this person's life knew he was crazy.
2) We will find he was able to amass a lot of firepower with little or no trouble.
3) 2AGuy and other NRA shills will be on here spamming the thread with their gun "Facts" that are anything but.

We won't find out that Big Pharma and his doctor filled him with synthetic drugs that likely are the cause. As is the case with most mass shooters.

Great point there!

How many of these nutters are on medication that has alter their perception in life and if the person stop taking them they go full nutter?

What should be looked at is the pill pushing industry and their peddlers!

I notice that too.

Like clock work, the corporate media ALWAYS harps on the guns, but because of HIPAA laws, no one ever questions what mood altering drugs these killers are on.


Ever since the passage of the ACA, these shootings have sky rocketed by poor, uneducated, mentally unstable desperate folks, but the corporate press hasn't been telling the brain dead public anything about that.

. . . and I suspect it has to do with the drugs that the community mental health providers are putting them on.

And BIG PHARMA wants the profits and wants THAT kept quiet.

I mean, I know correlation is not causation, but wow, take a look at this;

The ACA passes in 2010.

All of a sudden, we have this spike in mass shootings?

We have always had guns, what we haven't always had is mass availability of psychotropic drugs to just any poor person that used to go out and get a bottle of booze when they felt pissy or blue;

It's a win-win for the ruling class. They earn big profits off those nasty drugs all the while helping to accomplish their plan of disarming the law abiding.

Stranger things have happened.

 

[joaquinmiller]

MSM told her guns are bad, so she refuses to look at the actual stats about mass shootings.

She refuses to take into account America population size and that we are Fifty States and some States population are larger than most countries in the World.

She believe that making more laws will finally convince criminals that breaking them will stop killings.

What she has yet to learn is Cain and Able story tell me at least humans never learn and their lust for blood and death can never be taught out of them...

No, it's not that.

She thinks none of that is really the issue, she doesn't see the need for the 2nd Amendment. We are not having a conversation. She is comparing our nation with other nation's that don't have a 2nd Amendment. She wants our right to bear arms gone, that is what the media is telling folks, that we don't need it.

All I want her to address is these two videos, as the world authority on history has written, an armed people is a free people;

Breaking News - 12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

. .. . and there is no denying, America has more free speech, and more liberty than any other nation.

and there is no denying, America has more free speech, and more liberty than any other nation.
Something has gone wrong. Is it perhaps that we have let those two things take precedence over responsibility for a safe and sane society?

Then I suggest you call repealing your right to free speech and right to vote...

I can prove more people die because of your vote by showing you the wars you support and hate speech by our politicians beside Trump!

Someone is shooting up a high school in North Carolina this morning, Bruce. When are you people gonna stop your knee jerk reactions and think this over?

Really?

If found out the individual was not to have the guns when will you finally blame the LEO for their failure?

Never as usual!

Also if the individual is on a pill when will you blame the pill pushers?

Never as usual!

So tell me old lady how many more laws do you need to feel safe?

When will you get the Second Amendment repealed and while at it I demand your right to free speech and vote to be repealed because they are more dangerous!

So as you use those shootings go hide in a damn closet you pathetic excuse of a human!

The pill didn't shoot anyone.

 

[MisterBeale]

No, it's not that.

She thinks none of that is really the issue, she doesn't see the need for the 2nd Amendment. We are not having a conversation. She is comparing our nation with other nation's that don't have a 2nd Amendment. She wants our right to bear arms gone, that is what the media is telling folks, that we don't need it.

All I want her to address is these two videos, as the world authority on history has written, an armed people is a free people;

Breaking News - 12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

. .. . and there is no denying, America has more free speech, and more liberty than any other nation.

and there is no denying, America has more free speech, and more liberty than any other nation.
Something has gone wrong. Is it perhaps that we have let those two things take precedence over responsibility for a safe and sane society?

Then I suggest you call repealing your right to free speech and right to vote...

I can prove more people die because of your vote by showing you the wars you support and hate speech by our politicians beside Trump!

Someone is shooting up a high school in North Carolina this morning, Bruce. When are you people gonna stop your knee jerk reactions and think this over?

Really?

If found out the individual was not to have the guns when will you finally blame the LEO for their failure?

Never as usual!

Also if the individual is on a pill when will you blame the pill pushers?

Never as usual!

So tell me old lady how many more laws do you need to feel safe?

When will you get the Second Amendment repealed and while at it I demand your right to free speech and vote to be repealed because they are more dangerous!

So as you use those shootings go hide in a damn closet you pathetic excuse of a human!

The pill didn't shoot anyone.

Nice to have big pharma chime in, thanx.

 

[joaquinmiller]

and there is no denying, America has more free speech, and more liberty than any other nation.
Something has gone wrong. Is it perhaps that we have let those two things take precedence over responsibility for a safe and sane society?

Then I suggest you call repealing your right to free speech and right to vote...

I can prove more people die because of your vote by showing you the wars you support and hate speech by our politicians beside Trump!

Someone is shooting up a high school in North Carolina this morning, Bruce. When are you people gonna stop your knee jerk reactions and think this over?

Really?

If found out the individual was not to have the guns when will you finally blame the LEO for their failure?

Never as usual!

Also if the individual is on a pill when will you blame the pill pushers?

Never as usual!

So tell me old lady how many more laws do you need to feel safe?

When will you get the Second Amendment repealed and while at it I demand your right to free speech and vote to be repealed because they are more dangerous!

So as you use those shootings go hide in a damn closet you pathetic excuse of a human!

The pill didn't shoot anyone.

Nice to have big pharma chime in, thanx.

If you have a problem with a statement of fact, it's not my problem.

 

[EverCurious]

See my post above son. You're right, the world it going with the US, but we will make it through, after the left and the idiots turn on each other and kill each other for not agreeing 100%... We will survive, they will not.

There is no, "us and them," we are one.

We are all one human family, together we stand, or we fall.

Yeah, no sorry. I'm done with the bullshit game sorry. I refuse to be lumped in with these violent abusive fucks who think that we shouldn't have free speech, a means to defend ourselves (2nd), and fucking due process, who think that my fucking pocket book is theirs to raid, who think that my entire family deserves to die simply for having American ideals about real liberty.

I am /not/ one with them and if that means we fall, then by fuck all we're falling because I will /not/ put my life in the hands of a violent fascist mob, period. I am a free American woman and I will never be under the thumb of vile people. I will die first. My husband will have my full fucking support to take out as many as possible if/when they come for us - presuming we don't get the fuck out of this failed state before then.

OldLady and people like her ARE NOT "violent fascist mob."

They are our fellow humans beings, our countrymen, and need protection too.

You read this, then tell me if they are the enemy, or victims.

Propaganda by Edward Bernays (1928)

And what do we do with victims, let them die, or save them?

Nope, there's a certain grade of shit which I flush twice just to get rid of the stench. There is no saving these people, they're fucking lost, hell most of them can't even form their own thoughts anyway. I mean, maybe it's my syn (crossed senses, I 'feel' in color) but its like throwing away a bunch of broken cell phones in my eyes. They have zero respect for other people, other American's, anyone but themselves. Sorry, there was a time when I was a centrist, but I'm not anymore, center is now the left and I'm not left, I'm now "far right" because they tipped the scales so bad. The left, through their leaders and their followers, have proven themselves a violent and dangerous bunch who'd just as soon have us slaughtered in the streets for disagreeing with them, than to even give the slightest consideration for our opinions and beliefs.

If you'd like to try to pet the rabid dog, do feel free, but I'm sick and tired of having my hand mangled. Imagine that scene with Old Yeller, that's where I'm at. They either need be left to die of their disease or, if they attack, put out of their misery.

Even if it turned out to be your children, grand children, nieces or nephews?

Never happen son. See I was taught, and taught, my family members about responsibility, duty, honor, and respect for others. I taught them to compromise. The sad part is I was wrong. There's a class of people, mindless automaton types. These people don't care, it's all a big game to them. They have literally thrown away everything I spent my entire life fighting for, and for nothing but their virtue signaling bullshit likes on social media. Because they're idiots, because they don't understand what it is to be American. They're not salvageable because they have nothing underpinning their "core beliefs" - they don't even have such foundation principles. It's why they can't explain "why" they feel what they feel, it's why they can't form logical arguments and instead scream racist, sexist, bigot, nazi, at everyone. They are what they accuse everyone of being, and that is the entire worth of their rotten miserable existences.

Compromise was first-wave womens rights, first-wave gay rights, first-wave abortion rights, first wave gun control - that was fair compromise between two polar opposite opinion and beliefs. What happened? It wasn't enough for them. You need to understand that it'll never be enough for these fucks because they thrive on the war and they have nothing but that hatred and discontent in their hearts and minds - taught to them by the communist/socialist influx that we stupidly allowed into this nation. It doesn't matter how far you extend your hand son, they're going to continue to demand more and more until you are forced to give up /everything/ you believe in and even then they won't be happy. They won't be satisfied until your ideas, until your beliefs are utterly destroyed because they are everything they claim to hate in every sense of it.

They are not my people, they are not my family, they are nothing I want anything to do with because they are the kind who slaughtered my ancestors in the 30s. They are the people my grandparents (on both sides) fled to America to escape. My ancestors refused to continue to compromise with these bastards and neither will I.

 

[OldLady]

There is another thread starting in Health & Lifestyle about the role antidepressants and other drugs may be playing in this suicidal/homicidal increase in violence.
Although it is easy to say "yes, they were mentally ill so of course they were on meds," I don't think we should dismiss the idea out of hand without taking a serious look at it. "Cutting edge" medical treatments over the years have been pretty wild. Like mercury to cure syphilis and bleeding patients to cure whatever ailed them. Electric shock treatments for depression were pretty rough, too, although they did seem to work for awhile.

So there's nothing wrong with taking a look see at what is happening. Think of what the doctor's advice was fifty years ago and compare it to today on any number of issues. Their ideas and treatments are always changing.

All that said, for the most part, I believe antidepressants are successful in helping most patients with garden variety depression. We still have a lot to learn, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater, either.

 

[2aguy]

Yes... you have to focus like a laser on the murder rate, since the gun control laws in Britain do not decrease gun crime there

Gun crime in the UK is a fraction of that in the US. Remove the mote from you own eye.

Gun crime was always low before they banned guns...that is the issue, since now, after they banned guns...on an island....their gun crime rate is going up..that is the important point you don't want to confront....

 

[joaquinmiller]

There is another thread starting in Health & Lifestyle about the role antidepressants and other drugs may be playing in this suicidal/homicidal increase in violence.
Although it is easy to say "yes, they were mentally ill so of course they were on meds," I don't think we should dismiss the idea out of hand without taking a serious look at it. "Cutting edge" medical treatments over the years have been pretty wild. Like mercury to cure syphilis and bleeding patients to cure whatever ailed them. Electric shock treatments for depression were pretty rough, too, although they did seem to work for awhile.

So there's nothing wrong with taking a look see at what is happening. Think of what the doctor's advice was fifty years ago and compare it to today on any number of issues. Their ideas and treatments are always changing.

All that said, for the most part, I believe antidepressants are successful in helping most patients with garden variety depression. We still have a lot to learn, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater, either.

The only time gun nuts mention pharmaceuticals is when they are trying to deflect attention from another mass gun murder.

 

[2aguy]

There is another thread starting in Health & Lifestyle about the role antidepressants and other drugs may be playing in this suicidal/homicidal increase in violence.
Although it is easy to say "yes, they were mentally ill so of course they were on meds," I don't think we should dismiss the idea out of hand without taking a serious look at it. "Cutting edge" medical treatments over the years have been pretty wild. Like mercury to cure syphilis and bleeding patients to cure whatever ailed them. Electric shock treatments for depression were pretty rough, too, although they did seem to work for awhile.

So there's nothing wrong with taking a look see at what is happening. Think of what the doctor's advice was fifty years ago and compare it to today on any number of issues. Their ideas and treatments are always changing.

All that said, for the most part, I believe antidepressants are successful in helping most patients with garden variety depression. We still have a lot to learn, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater, either.

That would actually be an important thing to look into....but it won't lead to banning and confiscating guns so the left wing isn't interested in it...since understanding that aspect of the issue would actually lower the body count...which the left really needs to push gun control.

 

[OldLady]

Yes... you have to focus like a laser on the murder rate, since the gun control laws in Britain do not decrease gun crime there

Gun crime in the UK is a fraction of that in the US. Remove the mote from you own eye.

Gun crime was always low before they banned guns...that is the issue, since now, after they banned guns...on an island....their gun crime rate is going up..that is the important point you don't want to confront....

That's the fun thing about reporting on another country that you know nothing about but their crime stats. Do you think there could be some other factors at work besides gun control?

 

[joaquinmiller]

If the pillhead didn't have a gun, how many people would he have shot?

 

[2aguy]

I addressed your false perception about the uselessness of the 2nd Amendment.

Perhaps you need to revisit it? It was by the authority on world history, by that guy, Carroll Quigley, that is telling you the truth behind the corporate media conditioning you to the reason why you really want to get rid of it?

Did you watch that video? Breaking News - 12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

Minute 8:00, remember? You never addressed it. Why not? That is the authority on world history, he told us, remember, crucial to a nation's liberty?

Who are you to dispute that? Some professor at Harvard now?

I tried watching it, Mr. Beale, but I listened to quite a bit of it and did not see that it was addressing the second amendment. I don't agree with how you view the world's affairs. Sorry.

Why do you want to give up your right to self defense? Have you bothered to study the history of this issue? If you had, you would know what a terrible idea this is.

Well, I appreciate your approach, gipper. I made the choice early in my life not to protect myself with a firearm and I have never changed my mind. I was not aware that a lot of other countries had ever had an automatic right to own guns emblazoned in their Constitution. In retrospect, I think THAT may be been a terrible idea. Certainly, the resistance to restricting ownership to responsible and stable people has been a terrible idea and if people don't start compromising on this, I think the threat of the 2nd going away is going to become more real.
My position on guns has always been radical and I have no hope whatsoever of ever seeing my country agree with me.

Well if history can be used as our guide, I too would expect the 2A to disappear. After all, the ruling class demands it and they usually get what they want. The consequences of this, again if history is our guide, will be rather harmful to the American people. Once criminals and the government (one and the same) are the only one's armed, well we know what happens....if history is our guide.

What happens? Switzerland?

No... he means mass murder of innocent civilians. As happened in Germany, Europe, China, Russia, Cambodia, Viet Nam...anywhere the government has guns and the civilians do not.......

 

[EverCurious]

There is another thread starting in Health & Lifestyle about the role antidepressants and other drugs may be playing in this suicidal/homicidal increase in violence.
Although it is easy to say "yes, they were mentally ill so of course they were on meds," I don't think we should dismiss the idea out of hand without taking a serious look at it. "Cutting edge" medical treatments over the years have been pretty wild. Like mercury to cure syphilis and bleeding patients to cure whatever ailed them. Electric shock treatments for depression were pretty rough, too, although they did seem to work for awhile.

So there's nothing wrong with taking a look see at what is happening. Think of what the doctor's advice was fifty years ago and compare it to today on any number of issues. Their ideas and treatments are always changing.

All that said, for the most part, I believe antidepressants are successful in helping most patients with garden variety depression. We still have a lot to learn, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater, either.

Oh that's fucking rich while you advocate to leave me defenseless to fucking protect myself and my family with the only equalizer for a woman my size...

 

[2aguy]

If the pillhead didn't have a gun, how many people would he have shot?

He could have used a truck and killed even more people.....the muslim terrorist in Nice, France used a rental Truck and murdered 86 people, not 12, and injured 450, not 18, in 5 minutes of driving.......

It isn't the tool...it is the target.

 

[2aguy]

Yes... you have to focus like a laser on the murder rate, since the gun control laws in Britain do not decrease gun crime there

Gun crime in the UK is a fraction of that in the US. Remove the mote from you own eye.

Gun crime was always low before they banned guns...that is the issue, since now, after they banned guns...on an island....their gun crime rate is going up..that is the important point you don't want to confront....

That's the fun thing about reporting on another country that you know nothing about but their crime stats. Do you think there could be some other factors at work besides gun control?

That is the whole point of my posts on Britain..... it is their culture, not gun control, which has kept their crime rates and their gun crime rates low. That is why even after banning and confiscating guns, their gun crime rate is going up, which means it isn't the guns that are the issue, it is the now changing culture in Britain, led by single teenage girls raising young males without fathers....and the importation of violent 3rd World males who do not share the same values as British citizens, especially when it comes to violence.

 

[joaquinmiller]

If the pillhead didn't have a gun, how many people would he have shot?

He could have used a truck and killed even more people.....the muslim terrorist in Nice, France used a rental Truck and murdered 86 people, not 12, and injured 450, not 18, in 5 minutes of driving.......

It isn't the tool...it is the target.

Yet another deflection. What a surprise. How many would he have "shot"?