14 and 17 year old injured in shooting, why can't guns be banned?

[BULLDOG]

England population 53, 000,000 homicides 580
ST louis population 300,000 homicides 188
that's one city vs a country

Britain always had a low murder rate....our non gun murder rate is higher than their total murder rate.........and after they banned and confiscated guns...their gun crime rate has gone up, not down....

They are an island....they banned and confiscated guns.....their gun crime rate is going up...

Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Banning and confiscating guns didn't lower their gun crime or their gun murder rates....

Now....they too are cutting their police numbers, their police money, and they are attacking their police with Politically Correct policies........added to that, they are importing violent people who are taking over their drug trades......and using guns more and more.....and their social welfare state can't civilize their poor, young males anymore...

That is driving their gun crime rate and their violent crime rate....

0.23 per 100,000

Any of the European countries especially the western ones are what not to be like… we need to reject the cesspool that is Europe

Hard to reject 0.23 per 100,000 gun related deaths. You think it's better to have more dead people due to guns?

I think it's better when people are free to own guns.

What people do with those guns is not my responsibility. Gun owners are not responsible for the acts of criminals they are not responsible for acts of suicide.

Criminals are gun owners.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You do realize that people kill people not firearms, and more frivolous gun laws will not save a single soul… Fact

Violence with firearms is a non-issue in this country… we have much bigger fish to fry.
Get your fucking priorities straight. Jack weed
2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

it is im

You do realize that people kill people not firearms, and more frivolous gun laws will not save a single soul… Fact

Violence with firearms is a non-issue in this country… we have much bigger fish to fry.
Get your fucking priorities straight. Jack weed
2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

so we shouldn't try to lower murders??
guns are the MOST efficient hand-held killing device
they are continuously re-designed to kill more efficiently
cars are continuously re-designed for survivability
please see my previous post...gun laws work

You are using absolute numbers

If you want to be taken seriously use murders per 100000

The murder rate in Chicago for 2015 was 18.6 per 100000
The murder rate in the entire state of New Hampshire with its extremely lax gun laws in 2015 was less than 1 per 100000

Explain that.

there it is again! population and population density...and state vs Chicago...there is no comparison...not even close ..so your hypothesis is invalid
NH density 147 psm ..pop. 1,300,000
Chi density 11, 000. psm . pop. 2,700,000 147 vs 11 thousand
the whole STATE of NH population is half of Chicago
please give me a city/state with around the same pop. and same/more dense
I gave you LA, NYC, and CHi vs STL
..no, you don't have the same murder rate Chi vs Wyoming, Nevada, etc...it's not because of more guns--but the density and total of the population
you are trying to compare--so the factors have to be comparable for the comparison to be valid

And here you have some more numbers...again, it isn't law abiding people with guns that are the issue.....it is criminals and how the local justice system deals with them.....

Chicago...2016

Population 2.705 million

762

Houston...2016

Population 2.303

302

England population 53, 000,000 homicides 580
ST louis population 300,000 homicides 188
that's one city vs a country

You still don't understand ratios do you?

WHat's the murder rate per 100000 people?

Given those numbers, that would be
St Louis 62.6666 per 100,000
England 1.09 per 100,000

So?

I do not want to live in England but it seems like you do.
I don't want to live in St Louis

The thing you just can't seem to understand is that I am not responsible for what criminals do

 

[BULLDOG]

If you're saying that Americans are inherently more violent than Brits...why would you want Americans to have guns?!

People kill people not firearms... most people learn that in grade school

So why do we end up with so many dead people with bullets in them?

Because our criminals shoot each other more often than British criminals shoot each other.....70-80% of gun murder victims are criminals..with long histories of crime and violence.....

And as you keep ignoring....times are changing...Britain is becoming far more violent than the United States....and their murder rate is going to go up as well...and their people don't have guns to stop the killers...

Get back with me when they start shooting as many people as we do.

The vast majority of people killed by gunfire are criminals.

IDGAF if a piece of shit criminal gets dead

Criminals are gun owners.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Britain always had a low murder rate....our non gun murder rate is higher than their total murder rate.........and after they banned and confiscated guns...their gun crime rate has gone up, not down....

They are an island....they banned and confiscated guns.....their gun crime rate is going up...

Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Banning and confiscating guns didn't lower their gun crime or their gun murder rates....

Now....they too are cutting their police numbers, their police money, and they are attacking their police with Politically Correct policies........added to that, they are importing violent people who are taking over their drug trades......and using guns more and more.....and their social welfare state can't civilize their poor, young males anymore...

That is driving their gun crime rate and their violent crime rate....

0.23 per 100,000

Any of the European countries especially the western ones are what not to be like… we need to reject the cesspool that is Europe

Hard to reject 0.23 per 100,000 gun related deaths. You think it's better to have more dead people due to guns?

I think it's better when people are free to own guns.

What people do with those guns is not my responsibility. Gun owners are not responsible for the acts of criminals they are not responsible for acts of suicide.

Criminals are gun owners.

So all criminals are gun owners?

Here's the thing you left out

ALL criminals are illegal gun owners

But you seem to think that all gun owners are criminals because you want to hold ALL gun owners responsible for the acts of criminals

 

[BULLDOG]

I understand the problem. You're just a gun nut who wants everybody to be scared and armed just like you. Have you always been a coward, or did something happen to you?

Annnnnd.......you can't refute my information, the truth or reality.....so now you go on the attack....

I would never attack someone who has displayed the all encompassing fear that you have. Someone who fears life 24/7 to the point that he thinks he needs a gun to protect himself should be treated delicately. I don't want to make your psychosis worse than it is.

The most fearful people in this country are the ones trying to take firearms away from law-abiding citizens, you come across as spineless

Odd coming from a coward who can't go outside without a gun to hide behind.

Says the guy who is afraid of guns

When did I ever say I am afraid of guns? I'm afraid of indiscriminate gun ownership, and crazy gun nuts.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Annnnnd.......you can't refute my information, the truth or reality.....so now you go on the attack....

I would never attack someone who has displayed the all encompassing fear that you have. Someone who fears life 24/7 to the point that he thinks he needs a gun to protect himself should be treated delicately. I don't want to make your psychosis worse than it is.

The most fearful people in this country are the ones trying to take firearms away from law-abiding citizens, you come across as spineless

Odd coming from a coward who can't go outside without a gun to hide behind.

Says the guy who is afraid of guns

When did I ever say I am afraid of guns? I'm afraid of indiscriminate gun ownership, and crazy gun nuts.

It's obvious to me you are scared shitless of guns.

You somehow think restricting people who own guns and will never commit a crime will stop criminals from committing crimes with guns

 

[BULLDOG]

it is im
so we shouldn't try to lower murders??
guns are the MOST efficient hand-held killing device
they are continuously re-designed to kill more efficiently
cars are continuously re-designed for survivability
please see my previous post...gun laws work

there it is again! population and population density...and state vs Chicago...there is no comparison...not even close ..so your hypothesis is invalid
NH density 147 psm ..pop. 1,300,000
Chi density 11, 000. psm . pop. 2,700,000 147 vs 11 thousand
the whole STATE of NH population is half of Chicago
please give me a city/state with around the same pop. and same/more dense
I gave you LA, NYC, and CHi vs STL
..no, you don't have the same murder rate Chi vs Wyoming, Nevada, etc...it's not because of more guns--but the density and total of the population
you are trying to compare--so the factors have to be comparable for the comparison to be valid

And here you have some more numbers...again, it isn't law abiding people with guns that are the issue.....it is criminals and how the local justice system deals with them.....

Chicago...2016

Population 2.705 million

762

Houston...2016

Population 2.303

302

England population 53, 000,000 homicides 580
ST louis population 300,000 homicides 188
that's one city vs a country

You still don't understand ratios do you?

WHat's the murder rate per 100000 people?

Given those numbers, that would be
St Louis 62.6666 per 100,000
England 1.09 per 100,000

So?

I do not want to live in England but it seems like you do.
I don't want to live in St Louis

The thing you just can't seem to understand is that I am not responsible for what criminals do

You aren't responsible for what bank robbers do either, yet you aren't allowed to roam freely through a bank vault with an empty sack. You aren't responsible for what terrorists do, yet you aren't allowed to build an explosive device. You might be an excellent driver, but you aren't allowed to drive without taking the test and getting a license. We are limited on a lot of things because not everybody can be trusted to be safe and legal to do those things. It's called basic accommodation to the safety of society. Don't start whining about guns being constitutionally allowed. The SC already said reasonable restrictions don't deny your rights.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And here you have some more numbers...again, it isn't law abiding people with guns that are the issue.....it is criminals and how the local justice system deals with them.....

Chicago...2016

Population 2.705 million

762

Houston...2016

Population 2.303

302

England population 53, 000,000 homicides 580
ST louis population 300,000 homicides 188
that's one city vs a country

You still don't understand ratios do you?

WHat's the murder rate per 100000 people?

Given those numbers, that would be
St Louis 62.6666 per 100,000
England 1.09 per 100,000

So?

I do not want to live in England but it seems like you do.
I don't want to live in St Louis

The thing you just can't seem to understand is that I am not responsible for what criminals do

You aren't responsible for what bank robbers do either, yet you aren't allowed to roam freely through a bank vault with an empty sack. You aren't responsible for what terrorists do, yet you aren't allowed to build an explosive device. You might be an excellent driver, but you aren't allowed to drive without taking the test and getting a license. We are limited on a lot of things because not everybody can be trusted to be safe and legal to do those things. It's called basic accommodation to the safety of society. Don't start whining about guns being constitutionally allowed. The SC already said reasonable restrictions don't deny your rights.

Very poor analogy since a bank is private property

I can't carry a gun without a permit and having my fingerprints on file with the state police.
I can't buy a gun without a background check

And I have no real problem with that.

But that said if I pass every background check thrown at me and agree to have my fingerprints on file with the state even though I have committed no crime there is absolutely no reason to restrict my ownership of firearms or where I can and can't carry a concealed weapon.

 

[BULLDOG]

0.23 per 100,000

Any of the European countries especially the western ones are what not to be like… we need to reject the cesspool that is Europe

Hard to reject 0.23 per 100,000 gun related deaths. You think it's better to have more dead people due to guns?

I think it's better when people are free to own guns.

What people do with those guns is not my responsibility. Gun owners are not responsible for the acts of criminals they are not responsible for acts of suicide.

Criminals are gun owners.

So all criminals are gun owners?

Here's the thing you left out

ALL criminals are illegal gun owners

But you seem to think that all gun owners are criminals because you want to hold ALL gun owners responsible for the acts of criminals

No. All criminals are not illegal gun owners. Many got their guns and keep them perfectly legally. Lots of gang members who haven't been convicted of a felony. The NRA and gun nuts want them all to be allowed all the guns they want. Without universal background checks, they can legally buy from any private seller. Only the ones who have already been denied the right to own guns but still have them are illegal gun owners. I suspect that is only a small percentage.

 

[BULLDOG]

England population 53, 000,000 homicides 580
ST louis population 300,000 homicides 188
that's one city vs a country

You still don't understand ratios do you?

WHat's the murder rate per 100000 people?

Given those numbers, that would be
St Louis 62.6666 per 100,000
England 1.09 per 100,000

So?

I do not want to live in England but it seems like you do.
I don't want to live in St Louis

The thing you just can't seem to understand is that I am not responsible for what criminals do

You aren't responsible for what bank robbers do either, yet you aren't allowed to roam freely through a bank vault with an empty sack. You aren't responsible for what terrorists do, yet you aren't allowed to build an explosive device. You might be an excellent driver, but you aren't allowed to drive without taking the test and getting a license. We are limited on a lot of things because not everybody can be trusted to be safe and legal to do those things. It's called basic accommodation to the safety of society. Don't start whining about guns being constitutionally allowed. The SC already said reasonable restrictions don't deny your rights.

Very poor analogy since a bank is private property

I can't carry a gun without a permit and having my fingerprints on file with the state police.
I can't buy a gun without a background check

And I have no real problem with that.

But that said if I pass every background check thrown at me and agree to have my fingerprints on file with the state even though I have committed no crime there is absolutely no reason to restrict my ownership of firearms or where I can and can't carry a concealed weapon.

Not sure about your state laws, but lots of states don't require a permit to own or carry. No fingerprints, no background check unless you are buying from a licensed dealer, no anything, you don't even have to give your name. The individual seller is required to file no paperwork, or keep any records of the sale, or even know who you are. All perfectly legal.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Any of the European countries especially the western ones are what not to be like… we need to reject the cesspool that is Europe

Hard to reject 0.23 per 100,000 gun related deaths. You think it's better to have more dead people due to guns?

I think it's better when people are free to own guns.

What people do with those guns is not my responsibility. Gun owners are not responsible for the acts of criminals they are not responsible for acts of suicide.

Criminals are gun owners.

So all criminals are gun owners?

Here's the thing you left out

ALL criminals are illegal gun owners

But you seem to think that all gun owners are criminals because you want to hold ALL gun owners responsible for the acts of criminals

No. All criminals are not illegal gun owners. Many got their guns and keep them perfectly legally. Lots of gang members who haven't been convicted of a felony. The NRA and gun nuts want them all to be allowed all the guns they want. Without universal background checks, they can legally buy from any private seller. Only the ones who have already been denied the right to own guns but still have them are illegal gun owners. I suspect that is only a small percentage.

If they haven't been convicted of a crime then by definition they are NOT criminals are they?

I don't know any person who belongs to the NRA that says convicted felons should be able to buy guns.

And in many if not most states it is already illegal for anyone, licensed dealer or private party, to knowingly sell a gun to anyone who is legally ineligible to buy a gun.

The laws on straw purchases are not enforced but that is not my fault so restricting me because our law enforcement fails to do its job is ludicrous.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You still don't understand ratios do you?

WHat's the murder rate per 100000 people?

Given those numbers, that would be
St Louis 62.6666 per 100,000
England 1.09 per 100,000

So?

I do not want to live in England but it seems like you do.
I don't want to live in St Louis

The thing you just can't seem to understand is that I am not responsible for what criminals do

You aren't responsible for what bank robbers do either, yet you aren't allowed to roam freely through a bank vault with an empty sack. You aren't responsible for what terrorists do, yet you aren't allowed to build an explosive device. You might be an excellent driver, but you aren't allowed to drive without taking the test and getting a license. We are limited on a lot of things because not everybody can be trusted to be safe and legal to do those things. It's called basic accommodation to the safety of society. Don't start whining about guns being constitutionally allowed. The SC already said reasonable restrictions don't deny your rights.

Very poor analogy since a bank is private property

I can't carry a gun without a permit and having my fingerprints on file with the state police.
I can't buy a gun without a background check

And I have no real problem with that.

But that said if I pass every background check thrown at me and agree to have my fingerprints on file with the state even though I have committed no crime there is absolutely no reason to restrict my ownership of firearms or where I can and can't carry a concealed weapon.

Not sure about your state laws, but lots of states don't require a permit to own or carry. No fingerprints, no background check unless you are buying from a licensed dealer, no anything, you don't even have to give your name. The individual seller is required to file no paperwork, or keep any records of the sale, or even know who you are. All perfectly legal.

States rights and all that inconvenient liberty shit is a bitch ain't it?

 

[BULLDOG]

Hard to reject 0.23 per 100,000 gun related deaths. You think it's better to have more dead people due to guns?

I think it's better when people are free to own guns.

What people do with those guns is not my responsibility. Gun owners are not responsible for the acts of criminals they are not responsible for acts of suicide.

Criminals are gun owners.

So all criminals are gun owners?

Here's the thing you left out

ALL criminals are illegal gun owners

But you seem to think that all gun owners are criminals because you want to hold ALL gun owners responsible for the acts of criminals

No. All criminals are not illegal gun owners. Many got their guns and keep them perfectly legally. Lots of gang members who haven't been convicted of a felony. The NRA and gun nuts want them all to be allowed all the guns they want. Without universal background checks, they can legally buy from any private seller. Only the ones who have already been denied the right to own guns but still have them are illegal gun owners. I suspect that is only a small percentage.

If they haven't been convicted of a crime then by definition they are NOT criminals are they?

I don't know any person who belongs to the NRA that says convicted felons should be able to buy guns.

And in many if not most states it is already illegal for anyone, licensed dealer or private party, to knowingly sell a gun to anyone who is legally ineligible to buy a gun.

The laws on straw purchases are not enforced but that is not my fault so restricting me because our law enforcement fails to do its job is ludicrous.

Yes they are criminals. Lots of thugs with a rap sheet as long as your arm who have never been to prison. Lots of non felony crimes to be convicted of. They are criminals usually long before they are convicted of a felony, and can legally buy and even carry a gun in lots of states. The NRA and gun nuts consider all those thugs to be good guys with guns all the way up to that felony conviction that might not ever happen. How is an individual seller supposed to know who he is selling the gun to? There is no requirement for background checks or records of any kind. The seller isn't even required to ask the thug's name. On top of all that, unless the long time thug has had his first felony conviction, he is legal to buy all the guns he wants, anyway. There is no need for a straw purchase for any of the gang members and thugs to bother with a straw purchase unless they have had that first felony conviction. Excuse me. I should have called those gang members and thugs "Good Guys with a Gun" like the NRA and gun nuts do.

 

[BULLDOG]

Given those numbers, that would be
St Louis 62.6666 per 100,000
England 1.09 per 100,000

So?

I do not want to live in England but it seems like you do.
I don't want to live in St Louis

The thing you just can't seem to understand is that I am not responsible for what criminals do

You aren't responsible for what bank robbers do either, yet you aren't allowed to roam freely through a bank vault with an empty sack. You aren't responsible for what terrorists do, yet you aren't allowed to build an explosive device. You might be an excellent driver, but you aren't allowed to drive without taking the test and getting a license. We are limited on a lot of things because not everybody can be trusted to be safe and legal to do those things. It's called basic accommodation to the safety of society. Don't start whining about guns being constitutionally allowed. The SC already said reasonable restrictions don't deny your rights.

Very poor analogy since a bank is private property

I can't carry a gun without a permit and having my fingerprints on file with the state police.
I can't buy a gun without a background check

And I have no real problem with that.

But that said if I pass every background check thrown at me and agree to have my fingerprints on file with the state even though I have committed no crime there is absolutely no reason to restrict my ownership of firearms or where I can and can't carry a concealed weapon.

Not sure about your state laws, but lots of states don't require a permit to own or carry. No fingerprints, no background check unless you are buying from a licensed dealer, no anything, you don't even have to give your name. The individual seller is required to file no paperwork, or keep any records of the sale, or even know who you are. All perfectly legal.

States rights and all that inconvenient liberty shit is a bitch ain't it?

Got nothing to do with states rights. The SC already said federal regulation of guns is not denying anybody their constitutional rights.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

REASONABLE laws and regulations not what you want.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I think it's better when people are free to own guns.

What people do with those guns is not my responsibility. Gun owners are not responsible for the acts of criminals they are not responsible for acts of suicide.

Criminals are gun owners.

So all criminals are gun owners?

Here's the thing you left out

ALL criminals are illegal gun owners

But you seem to think that all gun owners are criminals because you want to hold ALL gun owners responsible for the acts of criminals

No. All criminals are not illegal gun owners. Many got their guns and keep them perfectly legally. Lots of gang members who haven't been convicted of a felony. The NRA and gun nuts want them all to be allowed all the guns they want. Without universal background checks, they can legally buy from any private seller. Only the ones who have already been denied the right to own guns but still have them are illegal gun owners. I suspect that is only a small percentage.

If they haven't been convicted of a crime then by definition they are NOT criminals are they?

I don't know any person who belongs to the NRA that says convicted felons should be able to buy guns.

And in many if not most states it is already illegal for anyone, licensed dealer or private party, to knowingly sell a gun to anyone who is legally ineligible to buy a gun.

The laws on straw purchases are not enforced but that is not my fault so restricting me because our law enforcement fails to do its job is ludicrous.

Yes they are criminals. Lots of thugs with a rap sheet as long as your arm who have never been to prison. Lots of non felony crimes to be convicted of. They are criminals usually long before they are convicted of a felony, and can legally buy and even carry a gun in lots of states. The NRA and gun nuts consider all those thugs to be good guys with guns all the way up to that felony conviction that might not ever happen. How is an individual seller supposed to know who he is selling the gun to? There is no requirement for background checks or records of any kind. The seller isn't even required to ask the thug's name. On top of all that, unless the long time thug has had his first felony conviction, he is legal to buy all the guns he wants, anyway. There is no need for a straw purchase for any of the gang members and thugs to bother with a straw purchase unless they have had that first felony conviction. Excuse me. I should have called those gang members and thugs "Good Guys with a Gun" like the NRA and gun nuts do.

The standard is a felony conviction.
I don't see a misdemeanor disturbing the peace charge as sufficient enough for denying a person a firearm.

And now you fall back to the flawed default position that gun owners are just criminals in waiting so we should treat them like they have already been tried and convicted of a gun crime.

If that's your default position on gun holders are you consistent with other crimes as well?

Shouldn't all men be considered rapists in waiting and be put on a state and federal registration because all rapists were "good guys" until they raped a woman ?

Can you not see how utterly ridiculous this position is?

 

[Skull Pilot]

So?

I do not want to live in England but it seems like you do.
I don't want to live in St Louis

The thing you just can't seem to understand is that I am not responsible for what criminals do

You aren't responsible for what bank robbers do either, yet you aren't allowed to roam freely through a bank vault with an empty sack. You aren't responsible for what terrorists do, yet you aren't allowed to build an explosive device. You might be an excellent driver, but you aren't allowed to drive without taking the test and getting a license. We are limited on a lot of things because not everybody can be trusted to be safe and legal to do those things. It's called basic accommodation to the safety of society. Don't start whining about guns being constitutionally allowed. The SC already said reasonable restrictions don't deny your rights.

Very poor analogy since a bank is private property

I can't carry a gun without a permit and having my fingerprints on file with the state police.
I can't buy a gun without a background check

And I have no real problem with that.

But that said if I pass every background check thrown at me and agree to have my fingerprints on file with the state even though I have committed no crime there is absolutely no reason to restrict my ownership of firearms or where I can and can't carry a concealed weapon.

Not sure about your state laws, but lots of states don't require a permit to own or carry. No fingerprints, no background check unless you are buying from a licensed dealer, no anything, you don't even have to give your name. The individual seller is required to file no paperwork, or keep any records of the sale, or even know who you are. All perfectly legal.

States rights and all that inconvenient liberty shit is a bitch ain't it?

Got nothing to do with states rights. The SC already said federal regulation of guns is not denying anybody their constitutional rights.

No the states have plenty of power. You stated yourself that some states require permits and some don't if the feds set the rules then those rules would apply to the entire country

 

[BULLDOG]

REASONABLE laws and regulations not what you want.

What do you think I want?

 

[BULLDOG]

Criminals are gun owners.

So all criminals are gun owners?

Here's the thing you left out

ALL criminals are illegal gun owners

But you seem to think that all gun owners are criminals because you want to hold ALL gun owners responsible for the acts of criminals

No. All criminals are not illegal gun owners. Many got their guns and keep them perfectly legally. Lots of gang members who haven't been convicted of a felony. The NRA and gun nuts want them all to be allowed all the guns they want. Without universal background checks, they can legally buy from any private seller. Only the ones who have already been denied the right to own guns but still have them are illegal gun owners. I suspect that is only a small percentage.

If they haven't been convicted of a crime then by definition they are NOT criminals are they?

I don't know any person who belongs to the NRA that says convicted felons should be able to buy guns.

And in many if not most states it is already illegal for anyone, licensed dealer or private party, to knowingly sell a gun to anyone who is legally ineligible to buy a gun.

The laws on straw purchases are not enforced but that is not my fault so restricting me because our law enforcement fails to do its job is ludicrous.

Yes they are criminals. Lots of thugs with a rap sheet as long as your arm who have never been to prison. Lots of non felony crimes to be convicted of. They are criminals usually long before they are convicted of a felony, and can legally buy and even carry a gun in lots of states. The NRA and gun nuts consider all those thugs to be good guys with guns all the way up to that felony conviction that might not ever happen. How is an individual seller supposed to know who he is selling the gun to? There is no requirement for background checks or records of any kind. The seller isn't even required to ask the thug's name. On top of all that, unless the long time thug has had his first felony conviction, he is legal to buy all the guns he wants, anyway. There is no need for a straw purchase for any of the gang members and thugs to bother with a straw purchase unless they have had that first felony conviction. Excuse me. I should have called those gang members and thugs "Good Guys with a Gun" like the NRA and gun nuts do.

The standard is a felony conviction.
I don't see a misdemeanor disturbing the peace charge as sufficient enough for denying a person a firearm.

And now you fall back to the flawed default position that gun owners are just criminals in waiting so we should treat them like they have already been tried and convicted of a gun crime.

If that's your default position on gun holders are you consistent with other crimes as well?

Shouldn't all men be considered rapists in waiting and be put on a state and federal registration because all rapists were "good guys" until they raped a woman ?

Can you not see how utterly ridiculous this position is?

OK, so there is a convicted felon who should never be anywhere near a gun. He's a felon, so you know he will lie if he has to, but to get a gun he doesn't have to. An individual seller has no legal obligation to even know the name of the purchaser he sells to. No background check, no records to file, no records to keep. All he needs to care about is if the buyer has the money. There you go. The felon just bought a gun, and there was nothing legal to stop him other than the fact that they told him he couldn't have a gun. I suspect lots of felons won't worry about what they were told if there is nothing else to interfere with them purchasing a gun. I never said all gun owners were criminals in waiting, but lots of them are. Do you think those thugs/gang members/ Good guys with guns will hesitate to use their legally bought guns to commit a crime, especially since there is no record of them ever buying the gun from an individual seller.
Your silly mark about rape doesn't apply.
When you sell a thug, with a rap sheet as long as your arm, a gun with no record of that sale, it's reasonably expected that that thug will eventually use that unregistered, unknown gun in a crime.

 

[BULLDOG]

You aren't responsible for what bank robbers do either, yet you aren't allowed to roam freely through a bank vault with an empty sack. You aren't responsible for what terrorists do, yet you aren't allowed to build an explosive device. You might be an excellent driver, but you aren't allowed to drive without taking the test and getting a license. We are limited on a lot of things because not everybody can be trusted to be safe and legal to do those things. It's called basic accommodation to the safety of society. Don't start whining about guns being constitutionally allowed. The SC already said reasonable restrictions don't deny your rights.

Very poor analogy since a bank is private property

I can't carry a gun without a permit and having my fingerprints on file with the state police.
I can't buy a gun without a background check

And I have no real problem with that.

But that said if I pass every background check thrown at me and agree to have my fingerprints on file with the state even though I have committed no crime there is absolutely no reason to restrict my ownership of firearms or where I can and can't carry a concealed weapon.

Not sure about your state laws, but lots of states don't require a permit to own or carry. No fingerprints, no background check unless you are buying from a licensed dealer, no anything, you don't even have to give your name. The individual seller is required to file no paperwork, or keep any records of the sale, or even know who you are. All perfectly legal.

States rights and all that inconvenient liberty shit is a bitch ain't it?

Got nothing to do with states rights. The SC already said federal regulation of guns is not denying anybody their constitutional rights.

No the states have plenty of power. You stated yourself that some states require permits and some don't if the feds set the rules then those rules would apply to the entire country

And?