$15 minimum wage would destroy 1.4 Million jobs

[danielpalos]

Total real family income would decrease by $9 billion...moron.

Not sure how they reached that conclusion when they reached this conclusion in that same study.

Real earnings for workers while they remained employed would increase by $64 billion,

Real earnings for workers while they were jobless would decrease by $20 billion,

64-20=44 billion in additional economic activity. Even if we subtract 9 billion in total family income that still leaves a gain of 35 billion in economic activity.

And, they did not suggest any tax breaks that could mitigate that cost.

And, with better coverage for unemployment compensation, there would still be a multiplier of 2 for those who are unemployed.

Where's your calculation for the opportunity cost you've imposed with all the new taxes required to fund the massive new welfare program you've created?

With a multiplier of 2 for that policy, any funds used would be an investment in our economy and would generate 2 dollars in economic activity for every 1 dollar spent. Thus, if we use a simple model with existing numbers, the 20 billion lost by those being unemployed could be the input for the cost of unemployment compensation. Spending 20 billion to replace that lost income would generate 40 billion in economic activity which would be effected by the multiplier. Ask any Capitalist if they want to get richer.

There is no multiplier.

When you take that 1 dollar from someone else to give to the guy who is unemployed it is not a net gain.

You need to read up on the broken windows fallacy.

You simply appeal to ignorance of economics and the multiplier effect.

 

[danielpalos]

most people don't work for companies with high paid CEOs

What Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk makes has never had an impact on my income and I bet it has none on yours..

Gravity Payments disagrees with you.

How many people work for that company? And tell me how what Jeff Bezoz gets paid has any effect on the people who work there?

 

[danielpalos]

View attachment 458007

Idiot.

Typical right winger.

Maybe in the short run. In the long run, higher paid labor creates more in demand and generates more in tax revenue.

Real earnings for workers while they remained employed would increase by $64 billion,

Real earnings for workers while they were jobless would decrease by $20 billion,

you know just because you italicize something and repeat it over and over and over doesn't make it true

It came from the same CBO report. If one is true why not the other? You need valid arguments since you have no "gospel Truth".

And you do?

and where exactly in the CBO report are those numbers?

copy the sentence and do a search in the document (F3).

 

[jbander]

Do you know how stupid The right wing corporate toe suckers are, just short of 45% of the population make less then $15:00 an hour . The brain dead, only the teenage kids would be effected by the increase remark, is absolutely stupid. Just about everything that comes out of their mouths about this is a wash when everything is considered as far as the $15.00 hour minimum wage is concerned ,What it is is the fact that these corporate toe suckers are only speaking the party corporate line like good little puppets. The only thing it really breaks down to is who gets the money the worker or people who don't need it. When these idiots come on here with their bullshit corporate driven puppet response . just tell the to stick it, they are just to dumb and uncaring to have a debate with.

 

[danielpalos]

Tell me what a new dollar does in a rich mans pocket compared to adding a dollar in a poor mans pocket.

Well, a dollar in Elon Musk's pocket started several new high tech businesses.
The poor guy bought another pack of smokes.

Because it wasn't one dollar.

In the short term, an increase in the minimum wage can boost the employment of low-wage workers through changes in the economywide demand for goods and services. A higher minimum wage shifts income from higher-wage consumers and business owners to low-wage workers. Because low-wage workers tend to spend a larger fraction of their earnings, some firms see increased demand for their goods and services, which boosts the employment of low-wage workers and higher-wage workers alike.

 

[danielpalos]

In other words, corporations can hire more due to less tax?

In other words, corporations can hire less and invest less due to higher minimum wage.
Now, about your confusion about federal corporate tax revenues.........

You are the one claiming they can lower their taxable income by expensing higher wages. Besides, some corporations pay no income tax anyway.

 

[danielpalos]

Not with a multiplier of two.

The CBO disagrees with your feelings.

This is where they considered the multiplier:

In the short term, an increase in the minimum wage can boost the employment of low-wage workers through changes in the economywide demand for goods and services. A higher minimum wage shifts income from higher-wage consumers and business owners to low-wage workers. Because low-wage workers tend to spend a larger fraction of their earnings, some firms see increased demand for their goods and services, which boosts the employment of low-wage workers and higher-wage workers alike.

 

[danielpalos]

Total real family income would decrease by $9 billion...moron.

Not sure how they reached that conclusion when they reached this conclusion in that same study.

Real earnings for workers while they remained employed would increase by $64 billion,

Real earnings for workers while they were jobless would decrease by $20 billion,

64-20=44 billion in additional economic activity. Even if we subtract 9 billion in total family income that still leaves a gain of 35 billion in economic activity.

And, they did not suggest any tax breaks that could mitigate that cost.

And, with better coverage for unemployment compensation, there would still be a multiplier of 2 for those who are unemployed.

Where's your calculation for the opportunity cost you've imposed with all the new taxes required to fund the massive new welfare program you've created?

With a multiplier of 2 for that policy, any funds used would be an investment in our economy and would generate 2 dollars in economic activity for every 1 dollar spent. Thus, if we use a simple model with existing numbers, the 20 billion lost by those being unemployed could be the input for the cost of unemployment compensation. Spending 20 billion to replace that lost income would generate 40 billion in economic activity which would be effected by the multiplier. Ask any Capitalist if they want to get richer.

There is no multiplier.

When you take that 1 dollar from someone else to give to the guy who is unemployed it is not a net gain.

You need to read up on the broken windows fallacy.

He won't even acknowledge that there's such a thing as opportunity cost.

Expensing higher wages to minimize their taxable income is one opportunity cost.

And, you won't even acknowledge the multiplier effect.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Tell me what a new dollar does in a rich mans pocket compared to adding a dollar in a poor mans pocket.

Well, a dollar in Elon Musk's pocket started several new high tech businesses.
The poor guy bought another pack of smokes.

Because it wasn't one dollar.

In the short term, an increase in the minimum wage can boost the employment of low-wage workers through changes in the economywide demand for goods and services. A higher minimum wage shifts income from higher-wage consumers and business owners to low-wage workers. Because low-wage workers tend to spend a larger fraction of their earnings, some firms see increased demand for their goods and services, which boosts the employment of low-wage workers and higher-wage workers alike.

Over a longer period, however, more firms would replace low-wage workers with higher-wage workers, machines, and other substitutes. Thus, CBO expects that the percentage reduction in employment of low-wage workers would generally rise over time for any given increase in the minimum wage

LOL!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In other words, corporations can hire more due to less tax?

In other words, corporations can hire less and invest less due to higher minimum wage.
Now, about your confusion about federal corporate tax revenues.........

You are the one claiming they can lower their taxable income by expensing higher wages. Besides, some corporations pay no income tax anyway.

You are the one claiming they can lower their taxable income by expensing higher wages.

Duh.

That's why their tax savings are larger than the higher payments by the minimum wage workers.

Because your claim was wrong (actually a lie).

Besides, some corporations pay no income tax anyway.

The unprofitable ones.

You should definitely make them pay higher wages.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Not with a multiplier of two.

The CBO disagrees with your feelings.

This is where they considered the multiplier:

In the short term, an increase in the minimum wage can boost the employment of low-wage workers through changes in the economywide demand for goods and services. A higher minimum wage shifts income from higher-wage consumers and business owners to low-wage workers. Because low-wage workers tend to spend a larger fraction of their earnings, some firms see increased demand for their goods and services, which boosts the employment of low-wage workers and higher-wage workers alike.

This is where they considered the multiplier:

This is where they show the multiplier is negative.

 

[danielpalos]

I saw it but discounted it

Liar.

Oh, look; a right winger typing on the Internet.

 

[danielpalos]

In the short term, an increase in the minimum wage can boost the employment of low-wage workers

And in the longer term..... Over a longer period, however, more firms would replace low-wage workers with higher-wage workers, machines, and other substitutes. Thus, CBO expects that the percentage reduction in employment of low-wage workers would generally rise over time for any given increase in the minimum wage

LOL!

That is going to happen anyway as automation becomes less expensive; higher paid but fewer workers will be needed. Just one more reason for equal protection of the laws for unemployment compensation in our at-will employment States. The left has solutions not just right wing bigotry or simply lying about being for free market Capitalism solutions.

 

[danielpalos]

Only right wingers call it a welfare program. I call it equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation in our at-will employment States.

Because you're full of shit.

That would actually mean something if you had any "gospel Truth" instead of merely fallacy by typing on the Internet, right winger.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In the short term, an increase in the minimum wage can boost the employment of low-wage workers

And in the longer term..... Over a longer period, however, more firms would replace low-wage workers with higher-wage workers, machines, and other substitutes. Thus, CBO expects that the percentage reduction in employment of low-wage workers would generally rise over time for any given increase in the minimum wage

LOL!

That is going to happen anyway as automation becomes less expensive; higher paid but fewer workers will be needed. Just one more reason for equal protection of the laws for unemployment compensation in our at-will employment States. The left has solutions not just right wing bigotry or simply lying about being for free market Capitalism solutions.

Low-wage workers are going to lose their jobs........let's make them lose more jobs....faster!!!

 

[danielpalos]

In other words, corporations can hire more due to less tax?

In other words, corporations can hire less and invest less due to higher minimum wage.
Now, about your confusion about federal corporate tax revenues.........

You are the one claiming they can lower their taxable income by expensing higher wages. Besides, some corporations pay no income tax anyway.

You are the one claiming they can lower their taxable income by expensing higher wages.

Duh.

That's why their tax savings are larger than the higher payments by the minimum wage workers.

Because your claim was wrong (actually a lie).

Besides, some corporations pay no income tax anyway.

The unprofitable ones.

You should definitely make them pay higher wages.

Simply typing on the Internet instead of being more grateful for modern broadband times and computer technologies?

• Nearly 100 companies in the Fortune 500 had an effective federal tax rate of 0% or less in 2018, according to a new report.
• The report looks at the first year since the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 went into effect.
• The list of companies covers a wide range of industries and includes some of the biggest companies in the United States.

These 91 companies paid no federal taxes in 2018

A new report from think tank says some of the biggest companies in the country had effective tax rates of 0% or less in 2018.

www.cnbc.com

 

[danielpalos]

Not with a multiplier of two.

The CBO disagrees with your feelings.

This is where they considered the multiplier:

In the short term, an increase in the minimum wage can boost the employment of low-wage workers through changes in the economywide demand for goods and services. A higher minimum wage shifts income from higher-wage consumers and business owners to low-wage workers. Because low-wage workers tend to spend a larger fraction of their earnings, some firms see increased demand for their goods and services, which boosts the employment of low-wage workers and higher-wage workers alike.

This is where they considered the multiplier:

View attachment 458448

This is where they show the multiplier is negative.

Here is where they showed it is positive even in the short term:

In the short term, an increase in the minimum wage can boost the employment of low-wage workers through changes in the economywide demand for goods and services. A higher minimum wage shifts income from higher-wage consumers and business owners to low-wage workers. Because low-wage workers tend to spend a larger fraction of their earnings, some firms see increased demand for their goods and services, which boosts the employment of low-wage workers and higher-wage workers alike.

And, we already know higher-paid labor creates more in demand and generates more in tax revenue in every long-run equilibrium.

 

[danielpalos]

In the short term, an increase in the minimum wage can boost the employment of low-wage workers

And in the longer term..... Over a longer period, however, more firms would replace low-wage workers with higher-wage workers, machines, and other substitutes. Thus, CBO expects that the percentage reduction in employment of low-wage workers would generally rise over time for any given increase in the minimum wage

LOL!

That is going to happen anyway as automation becomes less expensive; higher paid but fewer workers will be needed. Just one more reason for equal protection of the laws for unemployment compensation in our at-will employment States. The left has solutions not just right wing bigotry or simply lying about being for free market Capitalism solutions.

Low-wage workers are going to lose their jobs........let's make them lose more jobs....faster!!!

Only right wingers have a problem with equal protection of the laws for unemployment compensation in our at-will employment States.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I saw it but discounted it

Liar.

Oh, look; a right winger typing on the Internet.

Oh, look; a left winger whining on the Internet when his lies are pointed out.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Nearly 100 companies in the Fortune 500 had an effective federal tax rate of 0% or less in 2018, according to a new report.

Sounds awful!
What was their profit in 2018?