$200,000/job.. 27 years to pay back...

[Inthemiddle]

So you are against the defense of this nation?

Defense from what?

 

[miami_thomas]

40% of the stimulus was tax cuts. For example, most households got $800 to $1600 over 2 years in the make work pay credit.

Yes it was and even that was done poorly as evident by the situation we are still in. When you do tax breaks in small chunks each pay check and increasing them by like 20 to 50 dollars people just spend the money like they always do. When you give them the money in one lump sum they tend to use it more wisely and pay of some of their debts. Now we are almost out of money and people’s checks will shrink and cause another huge bubble to burst. What a brilliant move that was. Every thing done in this stimulus at the end of the day will make things much worse next year. They will of course blame it on Republicans for not extending it by passing another 500 billion or so to get the US through to the next election.

 

[healthmyths]

Most of the American deaths in Iraq occurred AFTER obama and the changes he made in the Rules of Engagement that prohibited air support and reinforcements for pinned down units.

Evidence?

READ my POST about the following:

Dakota Meyer rightfully won the Medal of Honor .. no question..
but the traitor that put around his neck CAUSED the deaths of the Marines!

How can Obama do that when HE KNOWS his orders got the Marines killed!
Here is why.. Obama's NEW rules of engagements did the following:

U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties,
rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village."

mcclatchydc.com/2009/09/08/75036/were-pinned-down-4usmarines.html#ixzz1YLqkHGN3

Proof? Here is a card our military are required to have on them!!!

“Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force,” the laminated card reads. For a soldier who has traveled halfway around the world to fight, that’s like telling a cop he should only patrol in areas where he knows he won’t have to make arrests. “Does that make any f–king sense?” Pfc. Jared Pautsch. “We should just drop a f–king bomb on this place. You sit and ask yourself: What are we doing here?”
There are plenty of critics in the arena. He deserves my silence. I love my country a lot more than I love politics. I think it is essential that he be helped in office.

newsrealblog.com/2011/01/27/top-10-breaches-of-protocol-by-the-obamas-1/6/

 

[uscitizen]

Most of the American deaths in Iraq occurred AFTER obama and the changes he made in the Rules of Engagement that prohibited air support and reinforcements for pinned down units.

YOU ARE RIGHT!!

Dakota Meyer rightfully won the Medal of Honor .. no question..
but the traitor that put around his neck CAUSED the deaths of the Marines!

How can Obama do that when HE KNOWS his orders got the Marines killed!
Here is why..
Obama's NEW rules of engagements did the following:

U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties,
rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village."

mcclatchydc.com/2009/09/08/75036/were-pinned-down-4usmarines.html#ixzz1YLqkHGN3

Proof? Here is a card our military are required to have on them!!!

“Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force,” the laminated card reads. For a soldier who has traveled halfway around the world to fight, that’s like telling a cop he should only patrol in areas where he knows he won’t have to make arrests. “Does that make any f–king sense?” Pfc. Jared Pautsch. “We should just drop a f–king bomb on this place. You sit and ask yourself: What are we doing here?”
There are plenty of critics in the arena. He deserves my silence. I love my country a lot more than I love politics. I think it is essential that he be helped in office.

newsrealblog.com/2011/01/27/top-10-breaches-of-protocol-by-the-obamas-1/6/

total fraking lies. at this site you will find a tally of US dead by month.
U.S. Casualties in Iraq

 

[uscitizen]

There were 4,139 named dead US killed in Iraq when Obama took office what is the tally now?

 

[healthmyths]

So? How long will it take to pay bakc the 1 trillion + for Iraq?
And how many US citizens were killed? How much would that work out per citizen killed?

How easy we forget that Obama was for going to Iraq as well. Last the 1 trillion was over 9 years not in one year. Two wrongs don't make a right. Last, at least the Iraqi mission accomplished it’s goal we can not say the same for the stimulus.

AND IT didn't have to last 9 years!
BUT when traitors say:
Durbin (D) "must have been done by Nazis, Soviets --action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid(D) "War is lost",
U.S. Rep. Murtha(D) "Our troops killed innocent civilians in cold blood,”
Senator Kerry(D) "American soldiers going into the homes of Iraqis in the
dead of night, terrorizing kids and children."
Senator Obama(D) .."troops are air-raiding villages and killing civilians,"

I'd like to know WHY the terrorists were NOT encouraged by the above words being used to recruit terrorists?

I'd like to know WHY these words if they had meaning and the speaker said them THEY WERE NOT helpful in recruiting and therefore PROLONGING the war?
Really I don't understand people saying they made no difference?
THEN WHY SAY THEM?? What purpose is there to at the minimum give ammunition NO different then Durbin,Reid,Obama.et.al. using guns to kill our troops... calling our troops "Killers",,"Terrorists"???

 

[miami_thomas]

So you are against the defense of this nation?

Defense from what?

From the threat of Saddam Hussein and the possible risk that our intelligence agency believed he had WMDs. Both the Democrats and Republicans were saying he had WMDs. That plus the fact Saddam Hussein would not let UN inspectors in to inspect his facilities created enough doubt to use force. Last, it is not like we believed he would not use Chemical weapons as he had used them before. So yes we needed to go in there and remove him from power as it was creating further instability in the region.

 

[uscitizen]

Coalition Military Fatalities By Year
Year US UK Other Total
2003 486 53 41 580
2004 849 22 35 906
2005 846 23 28 897
2006 822 29 21 872
2007 904 47 10 961
2008 314 4 4 322
2009 149 1 0 150
2010 60 0 0 60
2011 53 0 0 53
Total 4483 179 139 4801
iCasualties | Operation Iraqi Freedom | Iraq

anyone going to admit they were wrong?

 

[asterism]

Since it was brought up, here are some cold numbers.


US Casualties in Iraq by year:

2003 486
2004 849
2005 846
2006 822
2007 904
2008 314
2009 149
2010 60
2011 53


Now Afghanistan for the same period:

2003 48
2004 52
2005 99
2006 98
2007 117
2008 155
2009 317
2010 499
2011 386

Under Bush the average was 958 deaths per year (2003-2008). Since then, under Obama, the average has been 488 deaths per year. Nothing here suggests either President had any effect on substantially increasing or decreasing casualty numbers, as the trends are not associated with the changing of office.

source

Your point is valid but your math is wrong.

2003-2008 was 798 deaths per year.

 

[healthmyths]

Most of the American deaths in Iraq occurred AFTER obama and the changes he made in the Rules of Engagement that prohibited air support and reinforcements for pinned down units.

YOU ARE RIGHT!!

Dakota Meyer rightfully won the Medal of Honor .. no question..
but the traitor that put around his neck CAUSED the deaths of the Marines!

How can Obama do that when HE KNOWS his orders got the Marines killed!
Here is why..
Obama's NEW rules of engagements did the following:

U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties,
rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village."

mcclatchydc.com/2009/09/08/75036/were-pinned-down-4usmarines.html#ixzz1YLqkHGN3

Proof? Here is a card our military are required to have on them!!!

“Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force,” the laminated card reads. For a soldier who has traveled halfway around the world to fight, that’s like telling a cop he should only patrol in areas where he knows he won’t have to make arrests. “Does that make any f–king sense?” Pfc. Jared Pautsch. “We should just drop a f–king bomb on this place. You sit and ask yourself: What are we doing here?”
There are plenty of critics in the arena. He deserves my silence. I love my country a lot more than I love politics. I think it is essential that he be helped in office.

newsrealblog.com/2011/01/27/top-10-breaches-of-protocol-by-the-obamas-1/6/

total fraking lies. at this site you will find a tally of US dead by month.
U.S. Casualties in Iraq

WHAT is a LIE? There is NO laminated card telling soldiers NOT to go into places where won't have to defend themselves? IS THAT A LIE?

Are you telling me there was no cover fire for those 4 marines killed that Meyer's was trying to rescue just cause they didn't want to do it or were they "fearful" of "collateral damage" that Obama would be accused of authorizing? Remember Obama ACCUSED the military of:
"air-raiding villages and killing civilians" HIS WORDS!!!



[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrW4fOGIMVYAug[/ame] 14, 2007
According to Barack Obama, our troops in Afghanistan are "just air-raiding villages and killing civilians". 8/13/07

 

[paulitician]

Most if not all of their Stimulus-created jobs were Government jobs. Government jobs are incredibly expensive for Taxpayers. So the American Taxpayer got screwed again. It's a real shame.

 

[Inthemiddle]

READ my POST about the following:

Dakota Meyer rightfully won the Medal of Honor .. no question..
but the traitor that put around his neck CAUSED the deaths of the Marines!

How can Obama do that when HE KNOWS his orders got the Marines killed!
Here is why.. Obama's NEW rules of engagements did the following:

U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties,
rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village."

mcclatchydc.com/2009/09/08/75036/were-pinned-down-4usmarines.html#ixzz1YLqkHGN3

Proof? Here is a card our military are required to have on them!!!

“Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force,” the laminated card reads. For a soldier who has traveled halfway around the world to fight, that’s like telling a cop he should only patrol in areas where he knows he won’t have to make arrests. “Does that make any f–king sense?” Pfc. Jared Pautsch. “We should just drop a f–king bomb on this place. You sit and ask yourself: What are we doing here?”
There are plenty of critics in the arena. He deserves my silence. I love my country a lot more than I love politics. I think it is essential that he be helped in office.

newsrealblog.com/2011/01/27/top-10-breaches-of-protocol-by-the-obamas-1/6/

None of that is evidence to your claim. I, however, did post the exact figures. Go take a look.

 

[Inthemiddle]

From the threat of Saddam Hussein

There was no risk and we knew that.

and the possible risk that our intelligence agency believed he had WMDs.

No, the intelligence community in fact doubted that he had WMD.

Both the Democrats and Republicans were saying he had WMDs.

This claim was first asserted by Bush, and was parroted by others because it was a politically popular thing to say. In other words the Republicans and Democrats both supported taking the country into war because it would buy your vote. There were few people in those days courageous enough to say from the beginning that the entire thing was a sham. But there were some.

That plus the fact Saddam Hussein would not let UN inspectors in to inspect his facilities created enough doubt to use force.

No, that would have been for the UN to decide. And as you'll remember, they did not make that decision.

Last, it is not like we believed he would not use Chemical weapons as he had used them before.

Actually, we were aware that he did not have those old weapons before. The argument was that he was manufacturing new chemical weaponry. Powell's infamous (now understood to be entirely manufactured itself) speech to the UN, remember?

So yes we needed to go in there and remove him from power as it was creating further instability in the region.

Yeah, because the place is so much more stable now. The truth is that Hussein's Iraq was a pillar maintaining stability in the region. After the US invasion, Al Qaeda and other terrorists were able to flow into Iraq, and all kinds of Hell started breaking loose.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Your point is valid but your math is wrong.

2003-2008 was 798 deaths per year.

Actually, double checking again, I come up with 898 per year.

 

[uscitizen]

YOU ARE RIGHT!!

Dakota Meyer rightfully won the Medal of Honor .. no question..
but the traitor that put around his neck CAUSED the deaths of the Marines!

How can Obama do that when HE KNOWS his orders got the Marines killed!
Here is why..
Obama's NEW rules of engagements did the following:

U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties,
rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village."

mcclatchydc.com/2009/09/08/75036/were-pinned-down-4usmarines.html#ixzz1YLqkHGN3

Proof? Here is a card our military are required to have on them!!!

“Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force,” the laminated card reads. For a soldier who has traveled halfway around the world to fight, that’s like telling a cop he should only patrol in areas where he knows he won’t have to make arrests. “Does that make any f–king sense?” Pfc. Jared Pautsch. “We should just drop a f–king bomb on this place. You sit and ask yourself: What are we doing here?”
There are plenty of critics in the arena. He deserves my silence. I love my country a lot more than I love politics. I think it is essential that he be helped in office.

newsrealblog.com/2011/01/27/top-10-breaches-of-protocol-by-the-obamas-1/6/

total fraking lies. at this site you will find a tally of US dead by month.
U.S. Casualties in Iraq

WHAT is a LIE? There is NO laminated card telling soldiers NOT to go into places where won't have to defend themselves? IS THAT A LIE?

Are you telling me there was no cover fire for those 4 marines killed that Meyer's was trying to rescue just cause they didn't want to do it or were they "fearful" of "collateral damage" that Obama would be accused of authorizing? Remember Obama ACCUSED the military of:
"air-raiding villages and killing civilians" HIS WORDS!!!



[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrW4fOGIMVYAug[/ame] 14, 2007
According to Barack Obama, our troops in Afghanistan are "just air-raiding villages and killing civilians". 8/13/07

this is the lie and you said you are right.
"Most of the American deaths in Iraq occurred AFTER obama and the changes he made in the Rules of Engagement that prohibited air support and reinforcements for pinned down units."

this is about Iraq.

 

[Avorysuds]

So? How long will it take to pay bakc the 1 trillion + for Iraq?
And how many US citizens were killed? How much would that work out per citizen killed?

I dono, ask Obama... Obama is the one ending the Iraq war 2x while still leaving 17 THOUSAND troops there. Ask Obama why we are still in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Libya... 3 years later and I think it's well past time to start adding the war debt to Obama's spending, not umm, what was that guys names.... hmm, it's been 3 years.... Oh that's right, Bush! Sorry, it's been a long time, I figured Obama would start being held accountable for his actions.... Guess not.

 

[uscitizen]

So? How long will it take to pay bakc the 1 trillion + for Iraq?
And how many US citizens were killed? How much would that work out per citizen killed?

I dono, ask Obama... Obama is the one ending the Iraq war 2x while still leaving 17 THOUSAND troops there. Ask Obama why we are still in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Libya... 3 years later and I think it's well past time to start adding the war debt to Obama's spending, not umm, what was that guys names.... hmm, it's been 3 years.... Oh that's right, Bush! Sorry, it's been a long time, I figured Obama would start being held accountable for his actions.... Guess not.

Breaking his promise on GIYMO and ending the war is why I will not be voting for Obama this time.
If romney does not win the primary I will not be voting.

that binary thinking of yours again. Just because I do not like the right wingers does not mean I support Obama or support all of the left wing garbage either.

 

[Avorysuds]

So? How long will it take to pay bakc the 1 trillion + for Iraq?
And how many US citizens were killed? How much would that work out per citizen killed?

I dono, ask Obama... Obama is the one ending the Iraq war 2x while still leaving 17 THOUSAND troops there. Ask Obama why we are still in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Libya... 3 years later and I think it's well past time to start adding the war debt to Obama's spending, not umm, what was that guys names.... hmm, it's been 3 years.... Oh that's right, Bush! Sorry, it's been a long time, I figured Obama would start being held accountable for his actions.... Guess not.

Breaking his promise on GIYMO and ending the war is why I will not be voting for Obama this time.
If romney does not win the primary I will not be voting.

that binary thinking of yours again. Just because I do not like the right wingers does not mean I support Obama or support all of the left wing garbage either.

I suppose I assumed you were trying to place blame on the OP for supporting Bush when you brought up Iraq... If that is true then did you not do what you just claimed I did?

But maybe the OP is/was an avid Bush supporter.

 

[uscitizen]

I dono, ask Obama... Obama is the one ending the Iraq war 2x while still leaving 17 THOUSAND troops there. Ask Obama why we are still in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Libya... 3 years later and I think it's well past time to start adding the war debt to Obama's spending, not umm, what was that guys names.... hmm, it's been 3 years.... Oh that's right, Bush! Sorry, it's been a long time, I figured Obama would start being held accountable for his actions.... Guess not.

Breaking his promise on GIYMO and ending the war is why I will not be voting for Obama this time.
If romney does not win the primary I will not be voting.

that binary thinking of yours again. Just because I do not like the right wingers does not mean I support Obama or support all of the left wing garbage either.

I suppose I assumed you were trying to place blame on the OP for supporting Bush when you brought up Iraq... If that is true then did you not do what you just claimed I did?

But maybe the OP is/was an avid Bush supporter.

Why? because I intrepreted your reply to me as giving Bush a free ride and shifting the blame to Obama. Sorry if i misread that.

Yes Obama deserves blame as well for not getting our boys and girls out sooner, but the Iraq was was Bush mess that he left for the next guy to clean up.
Suprising since it was only supposed to last 6 months.

 

[Jarhead]

Breaking his promise on GIYMO and ending the war is why I will not be voting for Obama this time.
If romney does not win the primary I will not be voting.

that binary thinking of yours again. Just because I do not like the right wingers does not mean I support Obama or support all of the left wing garbage either.

I suppose I assumed you were trying to place blame on the OP for supporting Bush when you brought up Iraq... If that is true then did you not do what you just claimed I did?

But maybe the OP is/was an avid Bush supporter.

Why? because I intrepreted your reply to me as giving Bush a free ride and shifting the blame to Obama. Sorry if i misread that.

Yes Obama deserves blame as well for not getting our boys and girls out sooner, but the Iraq was was Bush mess that he left for the next guy to clean up.
Suprising since it was only supposed to last 6 months.

Bush mess?

Uh.....congress is the one who gave Bush the right to engage in a military conflcit with Iraq......not the other way around.

If a Sober Joe gives Drunk John the keys to his car to drive Lisa home and Drunk John has an accident....Sober Joe gets part if not most of the blame in a court of law.