2000 People on "Terror Watch List" able to buy guns!

[2aguy]

If they succeed in passing this bill to prevent 'possible' terrorists from purchasing firearms, how long before they bring up another list to attempt to prevent 'terrorists' from purchasing firearms?

the NRA mailing list.

That law would never pass - SCOTUS has made it very clear what the exceptions to 2nd Amendment are.

The majority of NRA members support more background checks and banning No-Fly list folks.

And the polls that show Americans supporting background checks are a lie……they do not reveal the truth about the purpose of background checks to the people taking them…if they did they would not support them.

 

[hazlnut]

No one on the list is a terrorist…that takes an actual action and then an arrest…that list is created by government bureaucrats, not judges and their is no way to appeal it…….

Trusting that list with the denial of gun rights is like trusting the IRS with the tax status of conservative political groups….not going to happen.

So how is it that list is good enough to keep these people off airplane flights, but not good enough to keep them from getting guns?

Legally, Constitutionally, it's not good enough for either use.

What do you not get about due process of law, and about the fact that people are put on this list without any such due process? How can you reconcile this with the principle of “Innocent until proven guilty” and the Constitutional requirement—explicitly spelled out in the Fifth Amendment—that no person may be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law?

There is a process to have your name removed from the list.

Fourth/Fifth Amendment "Due Process" has been interpreted by SCOTUS and many reasonable exceptions have been defined.

 

[hazlnut]

Again….

The terrorists who attacked charlie hebdo were on French terrorist watch lists and got fully automatic military rifles, grenades, pistols, and a rocket propelled grenades….

The cartoonists they murdered…were forbidden by French law from carrying guns to keep from being murdered by terrorists on French government, terrorist watch lists…

The terrorists who attacked Paris and killed 128 French citizens and wounded another 300 French citizens were on French government terrorist watch lists……and even on this list they were able to get all the weapons they wanted…fully automatic, military rifles, grenades, explosives and were able to make suicide vests…….

The 128 French citizens who were murdered by the terrorists on French government terrorist watch lists and the 300 French citizens who were injured and maimed by the terrorists on French government terrorist watch lists….were prevented by French law from carrying guns to stop the french terrorists on French Government terrorist watch lists from murdering them…..


That is how good Government, terrorist watch lists are at keeping terrorists from getting illegal, fully automatic military rifles, grenades, pistols and explosives….

Meanwhile….the law abiding citizens…were unarmed..

So when the democrats get in control of the bureaucracy, they will place people on the list, and those innocent Americans will not be able to buy a gun…..while terrorists on the list will still get any guns they want….

That is what the democrats want…….

Um, false analogy.

Here, in the U.S. they could be armed.

 

[2aguy]

Again….

The terrorists who attacked charlie hebdo were on French terrorist watch lists and got fully automatic military rifles, grenades, pistols, and a rocket propelled grenades….

The cartoonists they murdered…were forbidden by French law from carrying guns to keep from being murdered by terrorists on French government, terrorist watch lists…

The terrorists who attacked Paris and killed 128 French citizens and wounded another 300 French citizens were on French government terrorist watch lists……and even on this list they were able to get all the weapons they wanted…fully automatic, military rifles, grenades, explosives and were able to make suicide vests…….

The 128 French citizens who were murdered by the terrorists on French government terrorist watch lists and the 300 French citizens who were injured and maimed by the terrorists on French government terrorist watch lists….were prevented by French law from carrying guns to stop the french terrorists on French Government terrorist watch lists from murdering them…..


That is how good Government, terrorist watch lists are at keeping terrorists from getting illegal, fully automatic military rifles, grenades, pistols and explosives….

Meanwhile….the law abiding citizens…were unarmed..

So when the democrats get in control of the bureaucracy, they will place people on the list, and those innocent Americans will not be able to buy a gun…..while terrorists on the list will still get any guns they want….

That is what the democrats want…….

Um, false analogy.

Here, in the U.S. they could be armed.

no…not a false analogy…

We have a watch list….and if you make it so that people on that watch list are forbidden to buy guns, actual terrorists will still get guns…just like the terrorists in France did…..

Just like the IRS targeting political enemies of the democrat party, the watch list will be used to target enemies of the democrats.

 

[2aguy]

No one on the list is a terrorist…that takes an actual action and then an arrest…that list is created by government bureaucrats, not judges and their is no way to appeal it…….

Trusting that list with the denial of gun rights is like trusting the IRS with the tax status of conservative political groups….not going to happen.

So how is it that list is good enough to keep these people off airplane flights, but not good enough to keep them from getting guns?

Legally, Constitutionally, it's not good enough for either use.

What do you not get about due process of law, and about the fact that people are put on this list without any such due process? How can you reconcile this with the principle of “Innocent until proven guilty” and the Constitutional requirement—explicitly spelled out in the Fifth Amendment—that no person may be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law?

There is a process to have your name removed from the list.

Fourth/Fifth Amendment "Due Process" has been interpreted by SCOTUS and many reasonable exceptions have been defined.

Nope….there is also a process to get a concealed carry permit in New York…try to get one...

 

[Uncensored2008]

no…not a false analogy…

We have a watch list….and if you make it so that people on that watch list are forbidden to buy guns, actual terrorists will still get guns…just like the terrorists in France did…..

Just like the IRS targeting political enemies of the democrat party, the watch list will be used to target enemies of the democrats.

It already is.

One in three-hundred Americans is on the watch list, there is nothing rational about the list.

 

[2aguy]

The terrorists in France…all of them….were on French government watch lists…

French and Belgian intelligence knew Paris attackers had jihadi backgrounds

And they still got guns….

Regular, law abiding citizens…..could not get guns…..

That is how well a terrorist watch list will work, just like all the other ideas of anti gun extremists….they will target normal gun owners, and not do one thing to stop terrorists from getting weapons…..

A win win for anti gun extremists….

 

[2aguy]

This is a good take down on the democrats latest fascism……

Terrorism & Gun Control -- Democrats Are Using Terror Fears to Undermine Gun Rights | National Review Online

Let us avoid gloss or euphemism and speak plainly: This idea flies directly in the face of every cherished American conception of justice, and it should be rejected with extreme prejudice. You will note, I hope, that Reid, Schumer, Jentleson, and co. are not proposing to place restrictions on those who have been “accused,” “charged,” or “convicted,” but upon those who are “suspected.” They are not referring to those who are working their way through the judicial system, but to those who remain outside of it.

They are not seeking to limit the rights of those who are out on bail or awaiting trial, but those who have not so much as been handcuffed. Loudly and proudly, they are arguing in favor of removing fundamental rights from anyone whose name has been written down on a list. Because they hope to confuse the public, their talk is peppered with references to “Paris-style” “assault” rifles and “automatic” weapons. But this is a red herring: Their proposal applies equally to guns of all types, not just those that give Shannon Watts and Diane Feinstein the willies.

----------------------

And lose their minds the bill’s champions have. As of today, there are almost one million names on the terror watch list — that’s names, not identities — of which around 280,000 are linked to nothing much at all. This should not surprise, for one does not in fact have to do a great deal in order to find one’s way onto the list. Perhaps you know someone who is already on it? That’s suspicious, right? On you go!

Perhaps you have annoyed someone powerful? Oops! On you go! Perhaps you once said something intemperate in public? Better to be safe


. On you go! Perhaps you are a Muslim? On. You. Go. And now what? To whom do you apply for removal? Nobody, that’s whom.


By design, the system features scant due-process protections and an appeals process straight out of Kafka. It is, in the words of the U.S. District Court for the District of Oregon, an “arbitrary and capricious” monstrosity that violates not only the Constitution of the United States but the Administrative Procedure Act, too. No man shall be “deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law,” says the Fifth Amendment. “Whatever,” say the apologists.

 

[rightwinger]

Thank the NRA that terrorists are allowed to buy the guns of their choice at any gun shop

Why interfere with their open access to guns.....maybe we can get them some explosives too

 

[Rustic]

No one on the list is a terrorist…that takes an actual action and then an arrest…that list is created by government bureaucrats, not judges and their is no way to appeal it…….

Trusting that list with the denial of gun rights is like trusting the IRS with the tax status of conservative political groups….not going to happen.

So how is it that list is good enough to keep these people off airplane flights, but not good enough to keep them from getting guns?

Legally, Constitutionally, it's not good enough for either use.

What do you not get about due process of law, and about the fact that people are put on this list without any such due process? How can you reconcile this with the principle of “Innocent until proven guilty” and the Constitutional requirement—explicitly spelled out in the Fifth Amendment—that no person may be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law?

There is a process to have your name removed from the list.

Fourth/Fifth Amendment "Due Process" has been interpreted by SCOTUS and many reasonable exceptions have been defined.

Nope….there is also a process to get a concealed carry permit in New York…try to get one...

Some people have tried for years to get one, what a joke.
The second admendment should be a non-felons right carry concealed or open carry...

 

[Rustic]

Thank the NRA that terrorists are allowed to buy the guns of their choice at any gun shop

Why interfere with their open access to guns.....maybe we can get them some explosives too

Have you ever tried to buy a firearm at an retail store??
If you have, you would know you have to fill out form 4473 ATF.
Dumba$$

 

[flacaltenn]

No one on the list is a terrorist…that takes an actual action and then an arrest…that list is created by government bureaucrats, not judges and their is no way to appeal it…….

Trusting that list with the denial of gun rights is like trusting the IRS with the tax status of conservative political groups….not going to happen.

So how is it that list is good enough to keep these people off airplane flights, but not good enough to keep them from getting guns?

Legally, Constitutionally, it's not good enough for either use.

What do you not get about due process of law, and about the fact that people are put on this list without any such due process? How can you reconcile this with the principle of “Innocent until proven guilty” and the Constitutional requirement—explicitly spelled out in the Fifth Amendment—that no person may be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law?

There is a process to have your name removed from the list.

Fourth/Fifth Amendment "Due Process" has been interpreted by SCOTUS and many reasonable exceptions have been defined.

Wow -- If YOU say it -- then it MUST be true.. Or not...

The ACLU doesn't agree with you..

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/watchlist_briefing_paper_v3.pdf

Given the gravity of these consequences, it is vital that if the government blacklists people, the standards it uses are appropriately narrow, the information it relies on is accurate and credible, and the manner in which watchlists are used is consistent with the presumption of innocence and the right to a hearing before punishment—legal principles older than our nation itself. Yet the government fails these basic tests of fairness. It has placed individuals on watchlists, and left them there for years, as a result of blatant errors. It has expanded its master terrorist watchlist to include as many as a million names, based on information that is often stale, poorly reviewed, or of questionable reliability. It has adopted a standard for inclusion on the master watchlist that gives agencies and analysts near-unfettered discretion. And it has refused to disclose the standards by which it places individuals on other watchlists, such as the No Fly List. Compounding this unfairness is the fact that the “redress” procedures the U.S. government provides for those who have been wrongly or mistakenly included on a watchlist are wholly inadequate. Even after people know the government has placed them on a watchlist—including after they are publicly denied boarding on a plane, or subjected to additional and invasive screening at the airport, or told by federal agents that they will be removed from a list if they agree to become a government informant—the government’s official policy is to refuse to confirm or deny watchlist status. Nor is there any meaningful way to contest one’s designation as a potential terrorist and ensure that the U.S. government, and all other users of the information, removes or corrects inaccurate records. The result is that innocent people can languish on the watchlists indefinitely, without real recourse.

What Redress Procedures Are Available for Watchlisted Individuals? Individuals who believe they have been incorrectly watchlisted currently have only one option for seeking redress: the DHS Traveler Redress Inquiry Program (DHS TRIP). The “redress” offered by that program is utterly inadequate. At no point does the government officially confirm or deny that a person has been placed on a watchlist, even after government action makes watchlist status blatantly clear.

Now buzz off with what ever fantasies you'd LIKE to be true..

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The terrorists in France…all of them….were on French government watch lists…

French and Belgian intelligence knew Paris attackers had jihadi backgrounds

And they still got guns….

Regular, law abiding citizens…..could not get guns…..

That is how well a terrorist watch list will work, just like all the other ideas of anti gun extremists….they will target normal gun owners, and not do one thing to stop terrorists from getting weapons…..

A win win for anti gun extremists….

Amazing that anyone thinks they can have any credibility in denying what this clearly demonstrates about which side it is on which these Constitution-hating scumbags really are—that they are willfully on tje side of terrorists, tyrants, and violent criminals, and against that of honest, law-abiding Americans.

 

[flacaltenn]

Thank the NRA that terrorists are allowed to buy the guns of their choice at any gun shop

Why interfere with their open access to guns.....maybe we can get them some explosives too

Where are you getting the idea that terrorist COULD buy guns thru InstaCheck? Citizenship is required. Could be a straw purchase -- but that's illegal AND TRACEABLE..

 

[Rustic]

Without the second admendment this county would be A mob ruled banana republic...

 

[Rustic]

Thank the NRA that terrorists are allowed to buy the guns of their choice at any gun shop

Why interfere with their open access to guns.....maybe we can get them some explosives too

Where are you getting the idea that terrorist COULD buy guns thru InstaCheck? Citizenship is required. Could be a straw purchase -- but that's illegal AND TRACEABLE..

He has never tried to buy a firearm, so he has no credibility on the subject...

 

[Uncensored2008]

Thank the NRA that terrorists are allowed to buy the guns of their choice at any gun shop

Why interfere with their open access to guns.....maybe we can get them some explosives too

Which terrorist is that, Shitflinger?

Oh, you're just lying.

Carry on.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Thank the NRA that terrorists are allowed to buy the guns of their choice at any gun shop

Why interfere with their open access to guns.....maybe we can get them some explosives too

What makes them terrorists? Because they are on a terrorist watch list?

I guess you don't believe in our justice system that states a person is innocent until proven guilty. Everybody on that terrorist watch list is innocent of terrorism. Anybody who was on that list that committed an act of terror was brought to court and convicted.

But we don't convict people simply because their name is on a list of some sort.

 

[JoeB131]

What do you call your groveling to your owner and master Georg

George Soros is hiding under your bed right now and he's going to pop out and sodomize you tonight.

Oh, no, wait. That's just one of your fantasies.... like you having a Ph.D.

 

[JoeB131]

What makes them terrorists? Because they are on a terrorist watch list?

I guess you don't believe in our justice system that states a person is innocent until proven guilty. Everybody on that terrorist watch list is innocent of terrorism. Anybody who was on that list that committed an act of terror was brought to court and convicted.

But we don't convict people simply because their name is on a list of some sort.

Nobody has "convicted" them.

We don't let them fly on airplanes, and we shouldn't allow them to buy guns. That's just common fucking sense, dude.