2013 sea ice thread!!!

[Old Rocks]

With Arctic ice melt, ships now ply the Northern Sea Route

Here is possibly one of the rare pluses of climate change.

Melting sea ice means that Arctic shipping is set for a record year, reports the Financial Times.

As of Tuesday, 232 ships had received permission from Russia's Northern Sea Route Administration to transit what used to be called the Northeastern Passage.

How quickly things change.

in 2009, two German ships made history by navigating from South Korea to Rotterdam via the Northeast Passage.

"Plenty have tried," noted a report in Time that year. "For centuries, sailors have searched for a shortcut between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans through the icy waters off Russia's northern coast. Otherwise known as the Northern Sea Route, the passage — from Siberia to the Bering Strait — promised a speedy sea route between Europe and Asia for anyone who could make it. But caked in ice during winter and pretty much inhospitable because of floating ice in summer, the route has remained largely off-limits."

And then, the report noted, "Global warming may change that."

In 2010, four vessels sailed through the Northeastern route.

In 2012, 46 sailed through.

And now, 232. So far.

The northern route shaves ten days off the time to sail between Rotterdam and Kobe, in Japan, or Busan, in South Korea. Instead of 33 days via the Suez Canal, it takes 23 via the formerly ice-bound waters

Read more at With Arctic ice melt, ships now ply the Northern Sea Route

Oh looky, it's so rare for the ice to be not there that it wasn't until 1878 that Nordenskiöld first was able to transit that area. Between 1877 and 1919, 75 of 122 convoys that attempted the passage succeeded. Yeppers it's so uncommon that hundreds of vessels did it before the turn of LAST century

Read a damned book on history sometime....

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Northeast_Passage.aspx

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Northeast_Passage.aspx

Northeast Passage, water route along the northern coast of Europe and Asia, between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. Beginning in the 15th cent., efforts were made to find a new all-water route to India and China. Most of these attempts were directed at seeking a Northwest Passage. However, English, Dutch, and Russian navigators did try to seek a northeast route by sailing along the northern coast of Russia and far into the arctic seas.

In the 1550s, English ships made the first attempt to find the passage. Willem Barentz, the Dutch navigator, made several futile voyages in the 1590s, as did Henry Hudson in the early 17th cent. The decline of Dutch shipping in the 1700s left the exploration mainly to the Russians; among the men sent out was Vitus Bering, who explored the eastern part of the passage. The Russian Great Northern Expedition (1733–43) explored most of the coast of N Siberia. The Northeast Passage was not, however, traversed by anyone until Nils A. E. Nordenskjöld of Sweden accomplished the feat in 1878–79. In the early 1900s, icebreakers sailed through the passage, and in the 1930s the Northern Sea Route, a shipping lane, was established by the USSR.

Since World War II the Soviet Union and now Russia has maintained a regular summer-to-autumn highway for shipping along this passage through the development of new ports and the exploitation of resources in the interior. A fleet of Russian icebreakers, aided by aerial reconnaissance and by radio weather stations, keeps the route navigable until the expansion of the ice in winter prevents shipping. The decrease in ocean ice in the Arctic due to global warming has led to an increase of shipping through the Arctic and to the creation of shipping lanes further from the Russian coast; the routes cut the distance between N Eurasian Atlantic and Pacific ports by several thousand miles.

Perhaps you posted the wrong source? No mention of the number of ships or 'convoys' prior to 1919 in this article.

 

[mamooth]

hey mamooth- hard to believe the two graphs are of the same thing, in the same place, isn't it? the overlapping portion of the two graphs aren't exactly identical, are they?

This again. The data says you're wrong, so you're declaring the data is forged. It's a fine conspiracy theory, and the impossibility of disproving it is one of the hallmarks of pseudoscience.

 

[IanC]

here is a link to a compilation of information about the Arctic in the first half of the 20th century.
Historic Variations in Arctic sea ice. Part II: 1920-1950 | Climate Etc.

eg.-

Page 12 of Hubert Lamb’s ‘Climate History and the Modern World’ (originally published 1982 using material collated during the previous decade) notes ‘…from around the beginning of the century up to 1940 a substantial climate change was in progress, average temperatures were rising, most of all in the arctic where the sea ice was receding…the almost four and a half decades of near immunity to very cold winters ended abruptly with Europe’s notably severe war winters in 1940, 41 and 42 and another in 1947.’

Page 259 comments ‘…warming was rapid from about 1920 to 1940 …it was during the second and third decades of the (20th) century that the climatic warming became noticeable to everybody, places near the arctic fringe such as Iceland, Spitsbergen and even Toronto experienced warming that was from twice to five times as great… the average total areas of the arctic sea ice seems to have declined by about between 10 and 20% ….when account is also taken of the changes in the atmospheric circulation and hence in the distribution of rainfall and its variability as well, it is hardly too much to say that the twentieth century climate regime from 1920 to 1960 changed the world.’ Page 261 ‘… the frequency of snow and ice decreased generally and the retreat of the glaciers from about 1925 became rapid.’

I am not saying that ice extent numbers are cherry picked, but it was fortuitous for the warmers that satellite coverage started in earnest about 1979, when levels were high. from AR1, the first IPCC report-

here is mamooth's graph-

one was compiled at the beginning of global warming hysteria before it was known just how much 'facts and figures' could be 'adjusted'. the other during the heyday of global warming hysteria when everyone was climbing over each other to print something even more alarming than the last.

can you tell which one is which?

hey mamooth- hard to believe the two graphs are of the same thing, in the same place, isn't it? the overlapping portion of the two graphs aren't exactly identical, are they?

while I have implied that agendas may have influenced the selection and presentation of available information, I haven't said anything was forged.

Two lawyers working from the same set of information often come to different conclusions. Science is supposed to be searching for the truth but sometimes it seems to be only looking for corroborating evidence to performed conclusions.

 

[westwall]

With Arctic ice melt, ships now ply the Northern Sea Route

Here is possibly one of the rare pluses of climate change.

Melting sea ice means that Arctic shipping is set for a record year, reports the Financial Times.

As of Tuesday, 232 ships had received permission from Russia's Northern Sea Route Administration to transit what used to be called the Northeastern Passage.

How quickly things change.

in 2009, two German ships made history by navigating from South Korea to Rotterdam via the Northeast Passage.

"Plenty have tried," noted a report in Time that year. "For centuries, sailors have searched for a shortcut between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans through the icy waters off Russia's northern coast. Otherwise known as the Northern Sea Route, the passage — from Siberia to the Bering Strait — promised a speedy sea route between Europe and Asia for anyone who could make it. But caked in ice during winter and pretty much inhospitable because of floating ice in summer, the route has remained largely off-limits."

And then, the report noted, "Global warming may change that."

In 2010, four vessels sailed through the Northeastern route.

In 2012, 46 sailed through.

And now, 232. So far.

The northern route shaves ten days off the time to sail between Rotterdam and Kobe, in Japan, or Busan, in South Korea. Instead of 33 days via the Suez Canal, it takes 23 via the formerly ice-bound waters

Read more at With Arctic ice melt, ships now ply the Northern Sea Route

Oh looky, it's so rare for the ice to be not there that it wasn't until 1878 that Nordenskiöld first was able to transit that area. Between 1877 and 1919, 75 of 122 convoys that attempted the passage succeeded. Yeppers it's so uncommon that hundreds of vessels did it before the turn of LAST century

Read a damned book on history sometime....

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Northeast_Passage.aspx

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Northeast_Passage.aspx

Northeast Passage, water route along the northern coast of Europe and Asia, between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. Beginning in the 15th cent., efforts were made to find a new all-water route to India and China. Most of these attempts were directed at seeking a Northwest Passage. However, English, Dutch, and Russian navigators did try to seek a northeast route by sailing along the northern coast of Russia and far into the arctic seas.

In the 1550s, English ships made the first attempt to find the passage. Willem Barentz, the Dutch navigator, made several futile voyages in the 1590s, as did Henry Hudson in the early 17th cent. The decline of Dutch shipping in the 1700s left the exploration mainly to the Russians; among the men sent out was Vitus Bering, who explored the eastern part of the passage. The Russian Great Northern Expedition (1733–43) explored most of the coast of N Siberia. The Northeast Passage was not, however, traversed by anyone until Nils A. E. Nordenskjöld of Sweden accomplished the feat in 1878–79. In the early 1900s, icebreakers sailed through the passage, and in the 1930s the Northern Sea Route, a shipping lane, was established by the USSR.

Since World War II the Soviet Union and now Russia has maintained a regular summer-to-autumn highway for shipping along this passage through the development of new ports and the exploitation of resources in the interior. A fleet of Russian icebreakers, aided by aerial reconnaissance and by radio weather stations, keeps the route navigable until the expansion of the ice in winter prevents shipping. The decrease in ocean ice in the Arctic due to global warming has led to an increase of shipping through the Arctic and to the creation of shipping lanes further from the Russian coast; the routes cut the distance between N Eurasian Atlantic and Pacific ports by several thousand miles.

Perhaps you posted the wrong source? No mention of the number of ships or 'convoys' prior to 1919 in this article.

Here you go, I actually got my info from a BOOK. So I had to go out and do your research for you once again....

"From 1877 Kara expeditions were organised from time to time to bring Siberian agricultural products and minerals to the world market through the Kara Sea. Seventy-five out of one hundred and twenty-two Kara voyages were successful in the period from 1877 to 1919. The total amount of cargo was 55 thousand tons. Failures of Kara expeditions were explained by the absence of proper navigation equipment, ports and icebreakers."


The Way to Siberia

 

[flacaltenn]

Oh looky, it's so rare for the ice to be not there that it wasn't until 1878 that Nordenskiöld first was able to transit that area. Between 1877 and 1919, 75 of 122 convoys that attempted the passage succeeded. Yeppers it's so uncommon that hundreds of vessels did it before the turn of LAST century

Read a damned book on history sometime....

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Northeast_Passage.aspx

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Northeast_Passage.aspx

Northeast Passage, water route along the northern coast of Europe and Asia, between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. Beginning in the 15th cent., efforts were made to find a new all-water route to India and China. Most of these attempts were directed at seeking a Northwest Passage. However, English, Dutch, and Russian navigators did try to seek a northeast route by sailing along the northern coast of Russia and far into the arctic seas.

In the 1550s, English ships made the first attempt to find the passage. Willem Barentz, the Dutch navigator, made several futile voyages in the 1590s, as did Henry Hudson in the early 17th cent. The decline of Dutch shipping in the 1700s left the exploration mainly to the Russians; among the men sent out was Vitus Bering, who explored the eastern part of the passage. The Russian Great Northern Expedition (1733–43) explored most of the coast of N Siberia. The Northeast Passage was not, however, traversed by anyone until Nils A. E. Nordenskjöld of Sweden accomplished the feat in 1878–79. In the early 1900s, icebreakers sailed through the passage, and in the 1930s the Northern Sea Route, a shipping lane, was established by the USSR.

Since World War II the Soviet Union and now Russia has maintained a regular summer-to-autumn highway for shipping along this passage through the development of new ports and the exploitation of resources in the interior. A fleet of Russian icebreakers, aided by aerial reconnaissance and by radio weather stations, keeps the route navigable until the expansion of the ice in winter prevents shipping. The decrease in ocean ice in the Arctic due to global warming has led to an increase of shipping through the Arctic and to the creation of shipping lanes further from the Russian coast; the routes cut the distance between N Eurasian Atlantic and Pacific ports by several thousand miles.

Perhaps you posted the wrong source? No mention of the number of ships or 'convoys' prior to 1919 in this article.

Here you go, I actually got my info from a BOOK. So I had to go out and do your research for you once again....

"From 1877 Kara expeditions were organised from time to time to bring Siberian agricultural products and minerals to the world market through the Kara Sea. Seventy-five out of one hundred and twenty-two Kara voyages were successful in the period from 1877 to 1919. The total amount of cargo was 55 thousand tons. Failures of Kara expeditions were explained by the absence of proper navigation equipment, ports and icebreakers."


The Way to Siberia

.... and I was just considering giving away my old encyclopedia.. Now I think it's insurance against the "revisionists" of science.. Think I'll keep it after all..

 

[westwall]

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Northeast_Passage.aspx

Northeast Passage, water route along the northern coast of Europe and Asia, between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. Beginning in the 15th cent., efforts were made to find a new all-water route to India and China. Most of these attempts were directed at seeking a Northwest Passage. However, English, Dutch, and Russian navigators did try to seek a northeast route by sailing along the northern coast of Russia and far into the arctic seas.

In the 1550s, English ships made the first attempt to find the passage. Willem Barentz, the Dutch navigator, made several futile voyages in the 1590s, as did Henry Hudson in the early 17th cent. The decline of Dutch shipping in the 1700s left the exploration mainly to the Russians; among the men sent out was Vitus Bering, who explored the eastern part of the passage. The Russian Great Northern Expedition (1733–43) explored most of the coast of N Siberia. The Northeast Passage was not, however, traversed by anyone until Nils A. E. Nordenskjöld of Sweden accomplished the feat in 1878–79. In the early 1900s, icebreakers sailed through the passage, and in the 1930s the Northern Sea Route, a shipping lane, was established by the USSR.

Since World War II the Soviet Union and now Russia has maintained a regular summer-to-autumn highway for shipping along this passage through the development of new ports and the exploitation of resources in the interior. A fleet of Russian icebreakers, aided by aerial reconnaissance and by radio weather stations, keeps the route navigable until the expansion of the ice in winter prevents shipping. The decrease in ocean ice in the Arctic due to global warming has led to an increase of shipping through the Arctic and to the creation of shipping lanes further from the Russian coast; the routes cut the distance between N Eurasian Atlantic and Pacific ports by several thousand miles.

Perhaps you posted the wrong source? No mention of the number of ships or 'convoys' prior to 1919 in this article.

Here you go, I actually got my info from a BOOK. So I had to go out and do your research for you once again....

"From 1877 Kara expeditions were organised from time to time to bring Siberian agricultural products and minerals to the world market through the Kara Sea. Seventy-five out of one hundred and twenty-two Kara voyages were successful in the period from 1877 to 1919. The total amount of cargo was 55 thousand tons. Failures of Kara expeditions were explained by the absence of proper navigation equipment, ports and icebreakers."


The Way to Siberia

.... and I was just considering giving away my old encyclopedia.. Now I think it's insurance against the "revisionists" of science.. Think I'll keep it after all..

Never, ever get rid of good old encyclopedias. Ever.....

 

[Old Rocks]

Oh looky, it's so rare for the ice to be not there that it wasn't until 1878 that Nordenskiöld first was able to transit that area. Between 1877 and 1919, 75 of 122 convoys that attempted the passage succeeded. Yeppers it's so uncommon that hundreds of vessels did it before the turn of LAST century

Read a damned book on history sometime....

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Northeast_Passage.aspx

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Northeast_Passage.aspx

Northeast Passage, water route along the northern coast of Europe and Asia, between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. Beginning in the 15th cent., efforts were made to find a new all-water route to India and China. Most of these attempts were directed at seeking a Northwest Passage. However, English, Dutch, and Russian navigators did try to seek a northeast route by sailing along the northern coast of Russia and far into the arctic seas.

In the 1550s, English ships made the first attempt to find the passage. Willem Barentz, the Dutch navigator, made several futile voyages in the 1590s, as did Henry Hudson in the early 17th cent. The decline of Dutch shipping in the 1700s left the exploration mainly to the Russians; among the men sent out was Vitus Bering, who explored the eastern part of the passage. The Russian Great Northern Expedition (1733–43) explored most of the coast of N Siberia. The Northeast Passage was not, however, traversed by anyone until Nils A. E. Nordenskjöld of Sweden accomplished the feat in 1878–79. In the early 1900s, icebreakers sailed through the passage, and in the 1930s the Northern Sea Route, a shipping lane, was established by the USSR.

Since World War II the Soviet Union and now Russia has maintained a regular summer-to-autumn highway for shipping along this passage through the development of new ports and the exploitation of resources in the interior. A fleet of Russian icebreakers, aided by aerial reconnaissance and by radio weather stations, keeps the route navigable until the expansion of the ice in winter prevents shipping. The decrease in ocean ice in the Arctic due to global warming has led to an increase of shipping through the Arctic and to the creation of shipping lanes further from the Russian coast; the routes cut the distance between N Eurasian Atlantic and Pacific ports by several thousand miles.

Perhaps you posted the wrong source? No mention of the number of ships or 'convoys' prior to 1919 in this article.

Here you go, I actually got my info from a BOOK. So I had to go out and do your research for you once again....

"From 1877 Kara expeditions were organised from time to time to bring Siberian agricultural products and minerals to the world market through the Kara Sea. Seventy-five out of one hundred and twenty-two Kara voyages were successful in the period from 1877 to 1919. The total amount of cargo was 55 thousand tons. Failures of Kara expeditions were explained by the absence of proper navigation equipment, ports and icebreakers."


The Way to Siberia

Well thank you. I love articles like that. However, voyages from the Kara Sea are not full voyages of the Northeastern Passage. And 232 large modern vessels planning to use the route this summer will definitaly be a paradigm shift in sea transportation.

 

[westwall]

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Northeast_Passage.aspx

Northeast Passage, water route along the northern coast of Europe and Asia, between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. Beginning in the 15th cent., efforts were made to find a new all-water route to India and China. Most of these attempts were directed at seeking a Northwest Passage. However, English, Dutch, and Russian navigators did try to seek a northeast route by sailing along the northern coast of Russia and far into the arctic seas.

In the 1550s, English ships made the first attempt to find the passage. Willem Barentz, the Dutch navigator, made several futile voyages in the 1590s, as did Henry Hudson in the early 17th cent. The decline of Dutch shipping in the 1700s left the exploration mainly to the Russians; among the men sent out was Vitus Bering, who explored the eastern part of the passage. The Russian Great Northern Expedition (1733–43) explored most of the coast of N Siberia. The Northeast Passage was not, however, traversed by anyone until Nils A. E. Nordenskjöld of Sweden accomplished the feat in 1878–79. In the early 1900s, icebreakers sailed through the passage, and in the 1930s the Northern Sea Route, a shipping lane, was established by the USSR.

Since World War II the Soviet Union and now Russia has maintained a regular summer-to-autumn highway for shipping along this passage through the development of new ports and the exploitation of resources in the interior. A fleet of Russian icebreakers, aided by aerial reconnaissance and by radio weather stations, keeps the route navigable until the expansion of the ice in winter prevents shipping. The decrease in ocean ice in the Arctic due to global warming has led to an increase of shipping through the Arctic and to the creation of shipping lanes further from the Russian coast; the routes cut the distance between N Eurasian Atlantic and Pacific ports by several thousand miles.

Perhaps you posted the wrong source? No mention of the number of ships or 'convoys' prior to 1919 in this article.

Here you go, I actually got my info from a BOOK. So I had to go out and do your research for you once again....

"From 1877 Kara expeditions were organised from time to time to bring Siberian agricultural products and minerals to the world market through the Kara Sea. Seventy-five out of one hundred and twenty-two Kara voyages were successful in the period from 1877 to 1919. The total amount of cargo was 55 thousand tons. Failures of Kara expeditions were explained by the absence of proper navigation equipment, ports and icebreakers."


The Way to Siberia

Well thank you. I love articles like that. However, voyages from the Kara Sea are not full voyages of the Northeastern Passage. And 232 large modern vessels planning to use the route this summer will definitaly be a paradigm shift in sea transportation.

Yes, it helps when you are not subject to the vagaries of wind for your power. However, please note the use of sections all the way back to the 1500's. So you see, it truly is nothing new.

 

[Old Rocks]

Piomass data, low point of the ice volume decreasing for the last three years, high point staying virtually the same. Interesting;

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/wordp...olumeAnomalyCurrentV2.png?<?php echo time() ?

 

[Old Rocks]

A TEU is equal to 14 metric tons. According to the chart in this article, only a couple of todays ships could equal all the tonnage shipped through the Northeast Passage prior to 1919.

Yes, over 200 of these ships using the Northeast Passage is a paradigm change, particularly if there are no icebreakers required.

 

[westwall]

A TEU is equal to 14 metric tons. According to the chart in this article, only a couple of todays ships could equal all the tonnage shipped through the Northeast Passage prior to 1919.

Yes, over 200 of these ships using the Northeast Passage is a paradigm change, particularly if there are no icebreakers required.

So, since we're comparing apples to star ships, todays airliners are no more technologically advanced than say a Voison....right....

 

[itfitzme]

LINK:Melting Polar Ice Cap Created A Lake On Top Of The World - Forbes

Thanks to rising average global temperatures, the North Pole is once again home to a lake in the middle of the Arctic ice cap. Just a month ago, the exact same spot was ice. This photograph, taken by the North Pole Environmental Observatory, provides a pretty dramatic picture of the reality of the Arctic ice cap. Slowly but surely over the past decades, the average size of the ice cap has been shrinking. Last summer, Arctic sea ice reached the lowest point ever recorded.

 

[flacaltenn]

LINK:Melting Polar Ice Cap Created A Lake On Top Of The World - Forbes

Thanks to rising average global temperatures, the North Pole is once again home to a lake in the middle of the Arctic ice cap. Just a month ago, the exact same spot was ice. This photograph, taken by the North Pole Environmental Observatory, provides a pretty dramatic picture of the reality of the Arctic ice cap. Slowly but surely over the past decades, the average size of the ice cap has been shrinking. Last summer, Arctic sea ice reached the lowest point ever recorded.

Amazing.. Even Forbes got punked on that one eh? Where exactly is this camera? Hard to tell.. It's been free-drifting for a long time.. Right now it's in fast current about to EXIT the Arctic between Greenland and Prime meridian..

[/IMG]

So much wailing --- so little truth.. Not unusual for fast current straits to be completely ice-free towards the end of summer..

 

[flacaltenn]

If you're interested in what SCIENCE has to say about that picture.. Take it from the Nat Snow Ice data center..

The Lake at the North Pole, How Bad Is It? | Climate Central

&#8220;It&#8217;s << the camera >> moved away from the North Pole region and it will eventually exit Fram Strait,&#8221; said Mark Serreze, the director of the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) in Boulder, Colo., in an interview. Fram Strait lies between Greenland and Canada, and is one of the main routes for sea ice to get flushed out of the Arctic Ocean.

The second thing to keep in mind is that melting sea ice at or near the North Pole is actually not a rare event. Observations from the webcams dating back to 2002, and from satellite imagery and nuclear-powered submarines that have explored the ice cover since the Cold War era dating back several decades, show that sea ice around the North Pole has formed melt ponds, and even areas of open water, several times in the past.

The webcam depicting what seems like open water is most likely &#8220;just sitting in a big melt pond&#8221; that has formed on top of the sea ice cover, Serreze said. This melt pond started forming around July 10, and is likely close to its peak depth and extent. The occurrence of a melt pond at or near the North Pole is &#8220;just not that unusual,&#8221; Serreze said, and is even less rare at a more southern location such as where the camera is now.

&#8220;The whole Arctic sea ice cover does show melt during summer even at the North Pole,&#8221; he said, speaking of a typical melt season.

Serreze said it&#8217;s usually possible to walk through these melt ponds with hip boot waders on, as opposed to having to swim, since there is ice underneath the meltwater.

 

[Old Rocks]

However, water on top of the ice is significant. Bare ice reflects 90% of the sunlight back into space. Of that 10% whose energy is absorbed by the ice, it takes 334 joules of energy to convert one gram of ice at 0 degrees C to one gram of water at 0 degrees C. When the ice is covered with water, 90% of the energy in the sunlight is absorbed, only 10% reflected back to space. It takes 4.18 joules of energy to raise the temperature of one gram of water one degree C. So the sunlight that melts one gram of ice to water with no increase in temperature, now raise the temperature of 720 grams of water one degree C.

When winter approaches, that warm water takes longer to freeze up than it would had the area remained ice covered as it used to. That means in the spring, the ice is much thinner, and melts faster, exposing more water, and resulting in even more energy absorption by the Arctic Ocean.

 

[itfitzme]

What was the argument? That it's only a litte water?

 

[flacaltenn]

What was the argument? That it's only a litte water?

What u talking about Snidely? You asking about the phoney pix of the North Pole you posted?

You get that this camera is free-drifting and currently OVER A THOUSAND MILES SOUTH of the North Pole? (need an answer to be sure you're following dude)

Also that there is likely ice DIRECTLY below that water and you can WALK ON IT?
(If you carefully to the right side of the photo you can see evidence of this being a "melt pond".. )

And that it is not unusual for high flow currents thru the straits OUT of the Arctic circle to be clear of ice this time of year?

Any other problems bunky?

Maybe someone could help me out here. (Since I have little interest in watching ice melt when the rules are so silly) So you have massive "melt ponds" this time of year.
Since the "Ice Watch Fanatics" own this thread --- are "melt ponds" counted as ICED or NOT ICED in SIExtent measurements? Does the satellite pierce the few inches of water in the melt ponds?

 

[westwall]

What was the argument? That it's only a litte water?

No, that as usual, the truth seems to be beyond your ability to present. What's it like to be a pathological liar? Do you ever care? Or is it just a game, and when you get caught you just move on to the next lie till you get caught again?

 

[mamooth]

Time series ice-thickness. Looks cool. The main channel of the Northwest Passage may not open this year, as the storms keep piling up thick ice at the west end. There's a group off the Alaskan/Canadian coast now trying to row into the south channel (Amundsen's route), but the weather is not cooperating. High waves from the storm, and thick ice being blown into the coast.

 

[mamooth]

Arctic shipping quadruples in past year as global warming melts sea ice.
---
The Financial Times reports that, as of Friday, 204 ships had received permits this year to ply the Northern Sea Route, which connects East Asia to Europe via the waters off of Russia’s northern coast. Last year, just 46 vessels made the trip. Two years ago, the number was four.
---