380 convicted terrorists in U.S. were foreign born...let's stop vetting altogether...right?

[2aguy]

And here we have a list of actual convictions of foriegn born terrorists...

580 Terror Convictions in U.S. Since 9/11, 380 Are Foreign-Born

 

[Montrovant]

Has someone called to end all vetting?

 

[OldLady]

I think OP is saying just shut the door. Throw any existing foreigners out. Get under the bed and stay there.

 

[Decus]

And here we have a list of actual convictions of foriegn born terrorists...

580 Terror Convictions in U.S. Since 9/11, 380 Are Foreign-Born

I just watched video of testimony by Secretary Kelly to Congress posted by EverCurious (very informative - Thanks EC):

Recommended viewing - Nat. Security, Immigration, Border Security, etc.

What was surprising was that many of the Democrats questioning Secretary Kelly kept insisting that no one from the 7 temporarily banned countries were involved in terrorist activities on American soil. One of the last Congressmen to question Secretary Kelly began to read a list that proved otherwise.

Listening to what Kelly had to say even Democrats were showing that they respected the man. Too bad people don't have time to watch these kinds of hearings. What sadly becomes clear is that the press is so full of misinformation.

.

 

[usmbguest5318]

And here we have a list of actual convictions of foriegn born terrorists...

580 Terror Convictions in U.S. Since 9/11, 380 Are Foreign-Born

Your referenced article is from June 2016.

September 2016 -- DHS Official Admits: ‘Many’ Refugees Have Been Convicted of Terrorist Offenses in U.S. -- a decidedly conservative news outlet reporting testimony under oath before Congress:

• "The fact is that since Sept. 11, not a single act of actual terrorist violence has been committed by a refugee who has undergone our screening procedures."
• "Since Sept. 11, all we have had is conspiracies - not only by refugees, but in fact by U.S.-born persons, other kinds of immigrants."

Alex Nowrasteh of the conservative Cato Institute examined the facts in greater detail.

• Norwrasteh "compiled a list of foreign-born people who committed or were convicted of attempting to commit a terrorist attack on U.S. soil from 1975 through 2015. The ... seven countries are those to be initially and, hopefully, temporarily denied visas. [From 1975 - 2015], 17 foreign-born folks from those nations were convicted of carrying out or attempting to carry out a terrorist attack on U.S. soil and they killed zero people. Zero Libyans or Syrians intended to carry out an attack on U.S. soil during this time.

Nowrasteh also closely examined the Sessions' figures that Matthew Boyle highlights in his Breitbart piece the OP cites. What did Nowrasteh find and report?

• "It is disturbing that Sessions’ flawed list of terrorism convictions is the basis for much of this executive order. There are at least two major problems with the list.
  • First, you might get the impression that all of those convictions were for terrorist attacks planned on U.S.-soil but only 40, or 6.8 percent, were.
  • Second, 241 of the 580 convictions, or 42 percent, were not even for terrorism offenses. Many of the investigations started based on a terrorism tip like, for instance, the suspect wanting to buy a rocket-propelled grenade launcher. However, the tip turned out to be groundless and the legal saga ended with only a mundane conviction of receiving stolen cereal. According to Sessions’ list, that cereal thief is a terrorist.
  • In the little over 13 years covered in the Sessions’ list, there were about three convictions per year for planning or committing an attack on U.S. soil.
  • For [each conviction for planning or committing an attack on U.S. soil], there were six non-terrorism convictions counted as terrorism and 4.5 convictions for supporting, joining, or planning a terrorist attack overseas.
• In short, the list provided by Senator Jeff Sessions does not show a daunting terrorist threat to American lives in the homeland.
• "The danger of terrorism on U.S. soil committed by citizens of those countries has also been very low historically with only 17 convictions from 1975 through 2015 and zero Americans killed in domestic attacks."

The fact of the matter is that if defending the U.S. against the risk of terrorism by foreign born individuals is indeed for the purpose for Trump's travel and immigration fiat, and assuming he and his team were well informed on the matter and were sincerely trying to do just that, it would have either (1) banned individuals from far more countries than just the seven he chose, or (2) banned individuals from countries that actually have had terrorists commit murders/killings on U.S. soil. And what countries might those be?

Foreign-Born Terrorist Country of Origin, 1975-2015

1. Armenia - 1 killing
2. Croatia - 1 killing
3. Cuba - 3 killings
4. Egypt - 162 killings
5. Kuwait - 6 killings
6. Kyrgyzstan - 3 killings
7. Lebanon - 158 killings
8. Pakistan - 3 killings
9. Palestine - 2 killings
10. Saudi Arabia - 2,369 killings
11. Taiwan - 1 killing
12. Trinidad and Tobago - 1 killing
13. UAE - 314 killings

Of the seven countries in Trump's ban, not one of them has sent a murdering terrorist to the U.S., but how many people have those countries sent to the U.S? In 2015, the government issued 52,365 green cards to immigrants born in those seven countries which amount to just 4.98 percent of all green cards issued that year and 29.4 percent of all green cards issued to nationals from Muslim countries

Number of Green Cards issued to people from the seven banned countries:

• Iran - 13,114
• Iraq - 21,107
• Libya -734
• Somalia - 6,796
• Sudan - 3,580
• Syria - 3,840
• Yemen - 3,194

All Countries - 1,051,031​

Given the extant facts of the matter, one will find the following:

• 1 in 3.6M per year --> Chance of an American being killed by a foreigner attacking on U.S. soil, 1975-2015.
• 1 in 3.64B per year --> Chance of an American being killed by a refugee attacking on U.S. soil, 1975 - 2015.

Obviously, the odds are even lower -- as near as one can get to zero and not be actually zero -- if one adjusts them so they pertain only to individuals who come the banned nations.

So when one starts citing numbers of people who fit a given profile, try, as Breitbart and Jefferson Sessions made no effort to do, to obtain some perspective and clarity about those figures before spouting off about whatever hypothetical-in-contravention-of-facts impact they may portend, and then bother to show that what the do portend, assuming they even do, is at least something people have a legitimate basis over which to be concerned. Don't just sit there tilting at windmills, or asking us to do so. Doing that doesn't lend cogency and credibility to your claims and arguments; indeed it does the exact opposite.


Note:

Nowrasteh's report, which was released in mid-September 2016, was used as the source for a recent thread. You obviously didn't read the post, look at the pictures and charts, to say nothing of reading the actual report. Or maybe you did and just don't give a damn about the actual facts of the matter?​

 

[usmbguest5318]

I think OP is saying just shut the door. Throw any existing foreigners out. Get under the bed and stay there.

Whooo...be scared. Very scared.

Why on earth anyone would pander to, much less instigate, irrational fear is beyond me.

Could I go to the zoo and some calamity cause the rattlesnake cage's glass to break and the creature escape and bite me? Yes, it's possible that could happen. That it can happen isn't going to inspire me to advocate for the zoo not keeping rattlers, or any other deadly snake.

That same sort of "it could happen" rationale is at least part of the irrationality that drives the fear people have of foreigners. Americans really need to "get out more." Foreigners just aren't dangerous people, for the most part, including Muslims. People need to spend a couple months in Abu Dhabi, a week vacationing in Bali, party in Beirut, Izmir or Istanbul, visit Marrakech and play dominoes or backgammon with the locals over coffee. Arabs and Muslims in general tend to be very welcoming and respectful of others, and they meet as few Americans as most Americans meet them. The Muslim locals I've met in random encounters have been without exception as curious and interested in me and where I come from as I of them.

Of course, one cannot know that if one's worldview about them derives only from what one sees on television and reads on partisan websites. One has to get out and see the world to know the world.

 

[Godboy]

People need to spend a couple months in Abu Dhabi, a week vacationing in Bali, party in Beirut, Izmir or Istanbul, visit Marrakech and play dominoes or backgammon with the locals over coffee

Thats great and all, but no one is worried about a fun loving gambler from Abu Dhabi. We are talking about places where death and violence is a part of the culture, like Syria, Sudan, Somalia, etc. You cant grow up in a violent culture like that and be completely normalized just by stepping on US soil. These are damaged people. They arent going to help us in any meaningful way whatsoever, in fact, they will only make our country weaker and more dangerous.

 

[Hossfly]

I think OP is saying just shut the door. Throw any existing foreigners out. Get under the bed and stay there.

Whooo...be scared. Very scared.

Why on earth anyone would pander to, much less instigate, irrational fear is beyond me.

Could I go to the zoo and some calamity cause the rattlesnake cage's glass to break and the creature escape and bite me? Yes, it's possible that could happen. That it can happen isn't going to inspire me to advocate for the zoo not keeping rattlers, or any other deadly snake.

That same sort of "it could happen" rationale is at least part of the irrationality that drives the fear people have of foreigners. Americans really need to "get out more." Foreigners just aren't dangerous people, for the most part, including Muslims. People need to spend a couple months in Abu Dhabi, a week vacationing in Bali, party in Beirut, Izmir or Istanbul, visit Marrakech and play dominoes or backgammon with the locals over coffee. Arabs and Muslims in general tend to be very welcoming and respectful of others, and they meet as few Americans as most Americans meet them. The Muslim locals I've met in random encounters have been without exception as curious and interested in me and where I come from as I of them.

Of course, one cannot know that if one's worldview about them derives only from what one sees on television and reads on partisan websites. One has to get out and see the world to know the world.

Ever heard of sleepers, Aristotle?

 

[2aguy]

All of those countries have active terrorist groups that organize, plan and train actual terrorists.....but go ahead....ignore the threat...Trump's hands are clean when the next attack comes....

 

[2aguy]

The Chattanooga Shooter....was a foriegn immigrant...who was killed...so wasn't convicted......

2015 Chattanooga shootings - Wikipedia

Background[edit]
Abdulazeez, a naturalized American citizen, was born in Kuwait on September 5, 1990,[1][27][28][29][30] to Palestinian-Jordanian parents.[31] Abdulazeez held a temporary Jordanian passport as a travel document (commonly issued to Palestinians by the Jordanian government); Jordanian authorities emphasized that Abdulazeez was not a Jordanian citizen.[30]

Victims[edit]
Five people, excluding the gunman, died in the shootings. They included four U.S. Marines who died at the scene and one U.S. Navy sailor who died at a hospital two days later. All of them were shot at the U.S. Navy Reserve center, one inside a building and the other four at a nearby motor pool area. The victims all attempted to distract the gunman, returned fire, and assisted people in climbing a fence to safety. Some of the victims died while returning fire at Abdulazeez, providing cover for a larger group of potential victims who were escaping over a fence. They were identified as:[15][16]

But hey....let's wait till more Americans die before we decide to take the threats seriously....

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I think OP is saying just shut the door. Throw any existing foreigners out. Get under the bed and stay there.

Yes. They need to go. They need to take at least one sympathetic libtard American with them.

 

[Reasonable]

The vetting process is extensive and long.. up to 2 years. Trump has lied to you again and you swallowed.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

People need to spend a couple months in Abu Dhabi, a week vacationing in Bali, party in Beirut, Izmir or Istanbul, visit Marrakech and play dominoes or backgammon with the locals over coffee. Arabs and Muslims in general tend to be very welcoming and respectful of others, and they meet as few Americans as most Americans meet them.

Yeah, just don't be an attractive American "whore" and get yourself raped by one of these welcoming and respectful Mudslims. You'll spend time in their jails for enticing the locals to rape you.

British woman 'gang raped' and facing jail for premarital sex speaks out

 

[usmbguest5318]

People need to spend a couple months in Abu Dhabi, a week vacationing in Bali, party in Beirut, Izmir or Istanbul, visit Marrakech and play dominoes or backgammon with the locals over coffee. Arabs and Muslims in general tend to be very welcoming and respectful of others, and they meet as few Americans as most Americans meet them.

Yeah, just don't be an attractive American "whore" and get yourself raped by one of these welcoming and respectful Mudslims. You'll spend time in their jails for enticing the locals to rape you.

British woman 'gang raped' and facing jail for premarital sex speaks out

And you are so sure of that because.....???? And don't try to tell me because of what you heard on news, read on blogs, or some other silly crap. It may be entertaining to you to quip about how Muslims behave, but this isn't a "quippy" conversation, at least with me it's not. Make your jokes with other folks who don't know any better than to agree with your foul sentiments.

Just how much time have you actually spent interacting with "everyday"/random locals in a Muslim or heavily Muslim region/country? I'm working on 30+ years of annual travel to three or more per year -- usually Turkey, Indonesia, India (for work mostly, but even so, I've spent enough time just traipsing about the city), the UAE, and in the past decade or so, Western China (Xinjiang, which is essentially a Muslim region in China and whose inhabitants, Uighurs, have more culturally and ethnically in common with Turkic Muslims (the people who live in the "Stans") than with the Han who dominate the rest of the PRC).

 

[Picaro]

And here we have a list of actual convictions of foriegn born terrorists...

580 Terror Convictions in U.S. Since 9/11, 380 Are Foreign-Born

Any stats on how many of the others had foreign born parents? That also seems to be relatively common, like the Orlando shooter, for instance.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Has someone called to end all vetting?

Yes, the OP''s strawman said so!

 

[Picaro]

The vetting process is extensive and long.. up to 2 years. Trump has lied to you again and you swallowed.

We need to add another 8 years to that time for Islamic immigrants, just to be sure. Another good idea is to treat them to the same laws and legal statutes of their country of origin as most Islamic countries treat Jews and other non-Muslims, to make them feel more at home.

 

[ClosedCaption]

When you don't have a defense...use fear! You might be killed by a terrorist...an unwhite terrorist!

 

[Picaro]

People need to spend a couple months in Abu Dhabi, a week vacationing in Bali, party in Beirut, Izmir or Istanbul, visit Marrakech and play dominoes or backgammon with the locals over coffee. Arabs and Muslims in general tend to be very welcoming and respectful of others, and they meet as few Americans as most Americans meet them.

Yeah, just don't be an attractive American "whore" and get yourself raped by one of these welcoming and respectful Mudslims. You'll spend time in their jails for enticing the locals to rape you.

British woman 'gang raped' and facing jail for premarital sex speaks out

What??? You seem to think dhimmi should resist Allah's Chosen? Perish the thought! Muslims are entitled to do anything they want to dhimmi and unbelievers. You just don't appreciate Diversity n stuff.

 

[bodecea]

And here we have a list of actual convictions of foriegn born terrorists...

580 Terror Convictions in U.S. Since 9/11, 380 Are Foreign-Born

I'm sorry, who besides yourself is saying to stop vetting altogether?