400 million guns

[BlindBoo]

you need to get a dictionary,, thats not what a militia is,,

those are enlisted men not civilians,,,

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-1/section-8/clause-16/

No, it hasn't. I just posted the US code that covers militias. Do I need to do it again?

Every able body man between 17 and 45 who is not in the real militia(NG or State Forces)...... is part of the unorganized militia. AKA draft fodder!

 

[progressive hunter]

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-1/section-8/clause-16/

Every able body man between 17 and 45 who is not in the real militia(NG or State Forces)...... is part of the unorganized militia. AKA draft fodder!

youre all over the place with that one,,

sorry buttercup but the enlisted men are not militia,,

if you want to change anything first you need to change the constitution,, so get back with us when you get that done and I will meet you on the battle field to contest it,,

 

[westwall]

No, because your 'converse' example is not that at all, in fact, it is a strawman,


Nuclear bombs are a tool, people are dangerous.

The above statement of which, of course, reveals the absurdity of your logic insofar as the 'tool' itself MUST be a factor in the evaluation and NOT just the 'people' in the equation.

For your convenience, I will elaborate this point:

By pointing out that nuclear bombs are also a tool, but one that is inherently dangerous, I have underscored the fact that the danger posed by a tool depends on its potential for harm, as well as the person using it.

Your statement suggests that guns are neutral and that the danger lies solely in the people using them. My rebuttal challenges this notion by presenting an example of a tool that is generally considered highly dangerous, regardless of the user. This analogy encourages a reevaluation of your argument, emphasizing that the potential for harm caused by a tool, such as guns or nuclear bombs, should also be considered when discussing the dangers associated with them.

I will make it even simpler for you, a man, much smarter than you, or I, once said, denying arms to the law abiding only serves to make them victims of those who exist outside the law.

 

[M14 Shooter]

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-1/section-8/clause-16/

Every able body man between 17 and 45 who is not in the real militia(NG or State Forces)...... is part of the unorganized militia. AKA draft fodder!

And thus:
The Militia is NOT the US Armed forces
Glad you accepted the truth.

 

[2aguy]

The Neo-GOP has listen to Faux not News too long.

First the GOP at the time wouldn't confirm Obama's pick to lead the ATF (the old 60 vote threshold was still in effect). Second the AZ agents did not inform the WH of their plan to surveil suspected straw buyers, who were for the most part purchasing the weapons legally. Third, the AZ prosecutors refused to press charges because the agents mishandled the cases and they couldn't prove any AZ law was broken. Finally the Cartels get most of their weapon from stealing from the Mexican Military. The Mexican military buys a lot of weapons from the USA.

I bet the Faux anchors knew they were lying to ya'll back then too.

Wrong...that is a lie....

 

[westwall]

Criminals do not follow laws against murder, so, according to your logic, we should repeal anti-murder laws?

That a criminal won't follow the law doesn't make it a reason not to make a law.

Why? Because making a law will impose a consequence on breaking it, and, even if it doesn't deter, a criminal act should at least be punishable.

No, dumbass, that is the extent of YOUR logic.

 

[2aguy]

Criminals do not follow laws against murder, so, according to your logic, we should repeal anti-murder laws?

That a criminal won't follow the law doesn't make it a reason not to make a law.

Why? Because making a law will impose a consequence on breaking it, and, even if it doesn't deter, a criminal act should at least be punishable.

Criminals do not follow laws against murder, so, according to your logic, we should repeal anti-murder laws?

Wow...you use that lazy talking point?

We arrest people for murder when they break the law doing it....in the attempt or the completion....your gun laws make law abiding gun owners criminals without any crime being committed....

We already have all the laws and all the consequences we need....

Use a gun for a crime, you get arrested......then, a democrat party prosecutor or judge will release you to do it again, often on no cash bail....

 

[BlindBoo]

youre all over the place with that one,,

sorry buttercup but the enlisted men are not militia,,

if you want to change anything first you need to change the constitution,, so get back with us when you get that done and I will meet you on the battle field to contest it,,

Those enlisted in the National Guard are. Been that way over a hundred years.

The Militia Act of 1903 (32 Stat. 775), also known as the Efficiency in Militia Act of 1903 or the Dick Act, was legislation enacted by the United States Congress to create what would become the modern National Guard from a subset of the militia, and codify the circumstances under which the Guard could be federalized.

 

[BlindBoo]

And thus:
The Militia is NOT the US Armed forces
Glad you accepted the truth.

How many National Guard/Citizen Soldiers were sent to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan in the past two decades?

 

[2aguy]

Crime and violence are generally cyclical phenomena. A generation is born, they mature and get involved in crime, get incarcerated a few times, and gradually get to a point where they're statistically less likely to commit crimes. And then a new generation is born. Rinse, repeat.

Sometimes these trends can be mitigated by things like an improved economy or improved support systems for disadvantaged families, but this is probably minor mitigation unless people can actually be brought out of poverty and put into the working middle class long term. And the reason for this is simple: people who have something to lose (salary, career, family life, etc) know this and are less likely to commit crime.

Extended incarceration of repeat offenders probably does work for a limited time before states, which is where probably 90-95% of the prison population is, are unable to afford it. Initially, they release the nonviolent offenders, but then some of those probably come back as violent offenders and then there are more new inmates, and pretty soon, they're left with either dangerous prison conditions and a completely broken (and broke) penal system, or letting some dangerous criminals on the street. It's no coincidence that the most ambitious prison/incarceration reforms took place not in blue states but in very dark red states like Alabama and Louisiana.

All of that being said, the number of guns available to the general population is absolutely a factor in the number of violent crimes. It's not the only factor - would never argue that it is. There are times when violence trends downward even as the number of arms increases, as was the case from the mid-1990s until the mid-2010s, but sooner or later the sheer number of guns available to the sheer number of problematic people is going to catch up to is, and that's probably happening now.

All of that being said, the number of guns available to the general population is absolutely a factor in the number of violent crimes.

No....it isn't...

If your point was true.....you can't explain this.....



The gun murder and gun suicide rates in the U.S. both remain below their peak levels. There were 6.2 gun murders per 100,000 people in 2020, below the rate of 7.2 recorded in 1974.

Go ahead.....explain it according to your theory...


Over 27 years, from 1993 to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019 (in 2020 that number is 21.52 million)...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
======

The gun murder and gun suicide rates in the U.S. both remain below their peak levels. There were 6.2 gun murders per 100,000 people in 2020, below the rate of 7.2 recorded in 1974.


What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

Paper...why crime declined in the 90s

https://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittUnderstandingWhyCrime2004.pdf
========
======

Over the past few decades, the number of guns in America has increased massively, so much so that there are now more guns than people in the United States. Yet federal crime statistics show that firearm homicides dropped about 40 percent between 1993 and 2018, from 7 per 100,000 people to 4.3 per 100,000 people (for nonfatal crimes involving guns, the decline was 71 percent). Violent crime, including homicides, did spike during the pandemic, and while the most recent data is incomplete, it's clear that gun-related violence remains far below where it was 30 years ago despite more guns than ever being out there.

When it comes to schools, the 2020–21 academic year, the latest for which full data is available, did see the highest number of school shootingswith casualties this century. There are thankfully too few violent deaths to generate statistically significant conclusions, but the long-term trendsshow no increase in homicides or suicides among students, staff, and teachers.

Do 'more guns lead to more deaths'?
========
========


Bureau of Justice statistics...

The rate of firearm homicide per 100,000 persons age 12 or older declined 41% across the 26-year period of 1993 to 2018, from 8.4 to 5.0
homicides per 100,000 (figure 1). During the more recent 5 years from 2014 to 2018, this rate was between 4.0 and 5.2 homicides per 100,000 persons age 12 or older. A total of 150 persons age 11 or younger were victims of firearm homicide in 2018, resulting in a rate of 0.3 homicides per 100,000 persons in this age group (not shown).
-------
In 2018, there were 470,800 nonfatal firearm victimizations against persons age 12 or older, down 69% from 1.5 million in 1993 (table 2). Data on nonfatal firearm violence in this report are from
the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) and include rape
or sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated assault victimizations against persons age 12 or older in which the offender had, showed, or used a firearm.

https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/tpfv9318.pdf


murder 1950-2014...

Homicide Rate, 1950–2014


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

What changed in 2015?

The democrat party did 3 things...

1) they began a war on the police that forced officers to stop pro active police work, allowing criminals to run wild.

2) they began to release the most violent and dangerous gun offenders over and over again, not matter how many times they had been arrested for gun crimes

3) they used their brown shirts, blm/antifa to burn, loot and murder for 7 months in primarily black neighborhoods while the democrat party mayors ordered the police to stand down and not stop them......in order to hurt Trump during the election.

 

[multivita-man]

And the lowest concentration of guns per capita so it's obviously not the guns it's the people.

It's the people and it's the guns.

As I told you already, when you put guns into arm's reach of people who are unstable - either because they are undiagnosed nutcases like Steven Paddock or because they are living in communities/neighborhoods that are unstable (poverty, bad schools, limited job opportunities), you're going to have more gun violence.

I've already shown you that red states have higher rates of gun violence than blue states. You then tried to dismiss that by arguing that it's the urban/suburban areas where most of the violence is taking place, and I don't necessarily dispute that.

But if we go deeper and break it down into counties, we can see similar results. These are the counties with the highest rates of gun violence, broken down into small, mid-sized, and large counties by population. Note that St. Louis is a little different because the city is independent from the county yet part of the county.

Here are the states with the strictest gun laws:

Strictest Gun Laws by State 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

And now here are the counties with the most gun violence per capita:

U.S. Counties With the Most Gun Deaths | backgroundchecks.org

backgroundchecks.org

Small counties

Midsize counties

Large counties

They give an expanded discussion for the large counties.

Interestingly enough, I don't see New York, San Francisco, King County (Seattle), Los Angeles, Newark, Boston, or other cities in states where gun control is a thing.

 

[Oddball]

"...Gun control is like a donut: there is no middle. On the one side you have people who love guns, and if you disagree with them, they’ll threaten to shoot you. On the other side you have people who detest guns, mainly out of fear of getting shot. It is an ideological death-match in which the voices of reason and compromise don’t seem to exist. Or if they do, no one can hear them over the sounds of the shouting and posturing
and the bumper-sticker slogans about cold dead hands." --"Matt" (anonymous) from his review of Adam Winkler's 'Gunfight, the Battle Over the Second Amendment in America"

There are some 400 million guns in America, and if guns were making us safer, we'd be the safest place on earth, which America is not.

That is a fact Republicans cannot reconcile.

And to average republican, I guess that for them, they aren't enough.

Guns deaths have taken the lead in children, and this is a fairly recent development. And, please, no crap about 'well, half those deaths are suicide' because,
simply because that stat isn't caused by fewer guns, let's be clear.

So I hope those of you second amendment 'cold dead hands' types are happy.

It sure isn't for the parents of those dead children whose lives have been ruined by your cherished 'second amendment'.

Personally, though America's second amendment was a necessary component of life in the frontiers of the late 18th century when the nation was founded, they could not have foreseen 233 years into the future to know of a modern urban landscape where weapons could kill hundreds of people in a relatively short period of time, that had they known, it is doubtful they would have confined the second amendment's langage to one compound sentence, whose actual meaning continues to be debated to this day.

It's time for a 28th Amendment to update the 2nd, a vertible 2nd Amendment 2.0, as it were, and as to what the new language would be, I'll let you guys duke it out, but it needs to be updated,

It's time.

Cheers,

Get back in your lane, limey tosser.

 

[Oddball]

How many National Guard/Citizen Soldiers were sent to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan in the past two decades?

NG isn't the militia...They're DoD troops.

 

[M14 Shooter]

How many National Guard/Citizen Soldiers were sent to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan in the past two decades?

Irrelevant to the fact that The Militia is NOT the US Armed forces - contrary to your claim.

 

[progressive hunter]

Those enlisted in the National Guard are. Been that way over a hundred years.

The Militia Act of 1903 (32 Stat. 775), also known as the Efficiency in Militia Act of 1903 or the Dick Act, was legislation enacted by the United States Congress to create what would become the modern National Guard from a subset of the militia, and codify the circumstances under which the Guard could be federalized.

they are enlisted men not militia,,

buy a dictionary,,

 

[M14 Shooter]

It's the people and it's the guns.

It does not matter how many times you repeat your nonsense, it remains nonsense.

 

[2aguy]

It's the people and it's the guns.

As I told you already, when you put guns into arm's reach of people who are unstable - either because they are undiagnosed nutcases like Steven Paddock or because they are living in communities/neighborhoods that are unstable (poverty, bad schools, limited job opportunities), you're going to have more gun violence.

I've already shown you that red states have higher rates of gun violence than blue states. You then tried to dismiss that by arguing that it's the urban/suburban areas where most of the violence is taking place, and I don't necessarily dispute that.

But if we go deeper and break it down into counties, we can see similar results. These are the counties with the highest rates of gun violence, broken down into small, mid-sized, and large counties by population. Note that St. Louis is a little different because the city is independent from the county yet part of the county.

Here are the states with the strictest gun laws:

Strictest Gun Laws by State 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

View attachment 779555

And now here are the counties with the most gun violence per capita:

U.S. Counties With the Most Gun Deaths | backgroundchecks.org

backgroundchecks.org

Small counties

View attachment 779557

Midsize counties

View attachment 779559

Large counties

They give an expanded discussion for the large counties.

View attachment 779560

Interestingly enough, I don't see New York, San Francisco, King County (Seattle), Los Angeles, Newark, Boston, or other cities in states where gun control is a thing.

Yeah....democrat party controlled counties.......

The Heritage authors' data analysis revealed that, if the homicide rates of Democrat-run cities and counties in Republican-led states are subtracted, the overall homicide rates for those states are dramatically reduced.
-----

As noted earlier, however, most crime is hyperlocalized, so the funda- mental flaw with the study and the reason it does not deserve any serious consideration is that the “murder rate” in each state is largely a function of the large number of murders in a state’s biggest city or cities.21 A super majority of those cities, even in otherwise red states, are deep blue and runby left-wing ideologues.
----

When you remove the crime-infested, homicide-riddled cities from the state murder rate featured in the Third Way study, you dramatically lower the murder rate for that state, upending their conclusions and exposing the piece for what it really is: a straightforward attempt at political projection dressed up as a “study.”

Said another way, Kessler and Murdock did their level best as political operatives to blame their political opponents for the very thing—rising crime—that leftist policies at the city and county levels have caused.


While a state’s murder rate is perhaps politically interesting, a more accurate reflection of what is actually happening on the ground is gained by reviewing localized murder rates, such as murder rates in a city or county. What does this review show?

Table 1 lists the 30 cities with the highest murder rates in the United States as of June 30, 2022.
Not surprisingly, of those 30 cities, 27 have Democratic mayors, the exceptions being Lexington and Jacksonville, which have Republican mayors, and Las Vegas, whose mayor is an Independent. And within those 30 cities there are at least 14 Soros-backed or Soros-inspired rogue prosecutors. Those Soros bought-and-paid-for or inspired rogue prosecutors include:

Study debunks ‘red state murder’ claim from Hillary Clinton, Democrats
=================






In February 2022, CBS News published a report about cities with the highest homicide rate, "Murder map: Deadliest U.S. cities." Of the top 10 deadliest cities in the country, all of them are cities with Democratic mayors. Moreover, of the 65 cities on this list with the highest murder rates, the overwhelming majority had Democratic mayors. And, to quote Clinton, "that's just a fact."
----
On Nov. 4, the Heritage Foundation released a study showing that "high-crime counties are governed largely by Democrats." It revealed that of the 30 cities with the highest murder rates in the country, 27 have Democratic mayors. Furthermore, of those 27 cities, nearly half (14) have radical left-wing prosecutors funded or inspired by affluent billionaire and leftist political activist George Soros and the Open Society Foundation.
"The high murder rate is almost exclusively cabined in cities run by Democrats and with Democrat district attorneys, many of whom are Soros bought-and-paid-for rogue prosecutors or inspired by Soros, groups like the egregiously misnamed Fair and Just Prosecution and other battering rams of the movement," the authors of the study stated.

Don't believe Democrats' lies — blue cities, not red states, have the violent crime problem
=======


From poster, Toobfreak.

I chose 58 cities as that was the largest number I could fit on a page. I then went through each city one by one to look up the major of every city. Aside from the fact that you can forget finding any pattern of cities in "red" states being the most with the highest crime as the idiot Marc tries to claim, but I went down the list marking all the mayors of the highest crimes cities in America in BRIGHT RED who were DEMOCRATS.


Look at what I found:

Every city above in red is RUN BY A DEMOCRAT!

Murder map: Deadliest U.S. cities


Also.....

The No. 1 state on Third Way’s list is Mississippi. Sure enough, the statewide vote in the 2020 election was for Trump. But within the state, Hinds County residents voted for Joe Biden, 3 to 1. Mississippi’s biggest city, Jackson, is in Hinds County. You know where this is going.
Reporting on Jackson last year, CNN declared it “one of the deadliest U.S. cities.”

The mayor of Jackson is Chokwe Antar Lumumba, a Democrat. The district attorney is Jody Owens, a Democrat.
No. 2 on the list is Louisiana. Trump won that state, too. But on the more local level, he lost Orleans, the parish that contains New Orleans, the state’s most populous city. Residents there went for Biden almost 8 to 1.
“New Orleans had the highest homicide rate of any major city so far this year, with about 41 homicides per 100,000 residents.”— The Wall Street Journal, Sep. 16, 2022
The mayor of New Orleans is LaToya Cantrell, a Democrat. The district attorney is Jason Williams, also a Democrat.
No. 3 on the list is Kentucky, another red state that voted to elect Trump. But Kentucky’s biggest city Louisville is in Jefferson County and 60 percent of those voters supported Biden.
This is from Kentucky-based think tank Pegasus Institute in August: “In the last decade, the city of Louisville has seen unprecedented increases in shootings and homicides. 2020 became Louisville’s deadliest year on record, and 2021 have proven to continue that trend.” The organization reported last year that Louisville’s homicide rate was competing with the likes of Chicago and Philadelphia.
The mayor of Louisville is Greg Fischer, a Democrat. The district attorney is Thomas B. Wine. He is also a Democrat.
Next is Alabama at No. 4, another 2020 red state. But Biden won the most votes in the most populous county, also called Jefferson. He won 56 percent to Trump’s 43. Within Jefferson is the city of Birmingham, which has the third-highest murder ratein all of the U.S.
The mayor of Birmingham is Randall Woodfin. He’s a Democrat, just like the district attorney, Danny Carr.
In slot No. 5 is Missouri. Again, a Trump state. And again, with the county containing its biggest city, St. Louis, going for Biden, 61 percent to Trump’s 37. St. Louis has the fourth-highest murder rate in the country.
Mayor: Tishaura Jones, Democrat.
County prosecuting attorney: Wesley Bell, same.
No. 6 is South Carolina. Trump won that state, but Charleston County, with the city of North Charleston, went for Biden with 56 percent of the vote. North Charleston has the highest murder rate in the state.
Finally, here we have a city with a mayor, Keith Summey, from the Republican Party. The county solicitor — Charleston does not have a district attorney — is Scarlett Wilson, also a Republican.
Not that we’re keeping score, but that brings the number on this list of Republicans who might feasibly be held accountable for raging crime in their cities to a grand total of two. For Democrats, it’s so far 10.
The next two states on Third Way’s report, New Mexico and Georgia, went blue in 2020, so we’ll skip those.
No. 9 is Arkansas, which was red. But again, Pulaski County, with the state’s biggest city of Little Rock, went blue with 60 percent of voters choosing Biden. That city reportedly has one of the highest violent crime rates in the state. The mayor of Little Rock is Frank Scott, a Democrat. The county prosecutor, Larry Jegley, is a Democrat as well.
Lastly, at No. 10, is Tennessee. Another red state with a major blue county that went for Biden. That county here would be Shelby, with 64 percent of the vote going to the president. In Shelby is the city of Memphis, which, according to The New York Times, “is often ranked among the nation’s most violent cities.”
The mayor of Memphis is Jim Strickland, a Democrat. Steve Mulroy, a Democrat, is the recently-elected district attorney.
To recap, of the eight red states listed in Third Way’s report as being among the top 10 with the highest murder rate, the cities where all that murder is happening are run almost exclusively by Democrats. All but one had a Democrat mayor. And all but one had a Democrat responsible for pursuing criminal prosecutions.


The Left's Funny New Lie: It's The 'Red States' With More Crime!

 

[M14 Shooter]

NG isn't the militia...They're DoD troops.

Correct.
The NG is a reserve component of the US military which the state governors can call out for emergencies.
The NG is trained, equipped, and paid for by the US department of defense.

 

[Bell Huey]

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-1/section-8/clause-16/

Every able body man between 17 and 45 who is not in the real militia(NG or State Forces)...... is part of the unorganized militia. AKA draft fodder!

(a)
The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b)The classes of the militia are—
(1)
the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2)
the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[2aguy]

Correct.
The NG is a reserve component of the US military which the state governors can call out for emergencies.
The NG is trained, equipped, and paid for by the US department of defense.

Having served in the National Guard, we always knew that at any time, we could be brought into federal control.........when we had our annual training, we were no longer under state control, we were under federal control and under the UCMJ......