53% of Americans Think Republicans are Too Extreme

[Barb]

Of course! The usual suspects come from the depths to "school" me with their "properly formatted" (usually APA) disortations written by someone in academia and, who, for the most part, never left the halls of academic achievement.

Lady, you are dealing with an individual who graduated from the University of Louisville, most likely long before you were hatched into this world, and stopped at the lowly BA. I couldn't care less about your "book learning" spears that you hurl in an attempt to feel better about yourself. I used the GI bill to obtain my degree. I majored in the feeble enterprise of "communication" with a minor in Political Science.

I spent 25 years (after the military) as a Teamster (surprise!! a pensioned union member here) and STILL, I couldn't care less for your point of view.

You hate. That's what you do. You hate this country. You hate republicans. You "most likely" hate straight people and, in particular, men. You hate the social morays that "most" folks try to live by. You hate anyone and anything that doesn't fit into your little box of weirdness. You are, by definition, a miserable hater. My God. What a worthless way to live.

Please, however, I beg you. when you come here to impress those "lowly" right wing republicans that you despise with every fiber of your miserable being, please, PLEASE use your own thoughts to form your posts. I, and the rest of the "idiots" that make up the conservative base here would much rather read YOUR posts and not the plagiarism you use from "scholars" who have never ventured farther than 100 yards from the classroom.

And just for the record, why not put on your best flannel shirt and combat boots and go out and have some fun with your significant "other"....

I quoted my source. If anything longer than 40 words was a direct quote it would have been in the appropriate

box

For the record, my significant other would make you piss your woefully inadequate pants. HE doesn't post in these forums, but hey, stop by and say hello someday. HE also likes to see me tear a motherfucker up.

For the record, I have no doubt whatsoever that your Girlfriend could tear me limb from limb. I sincerely doubt that at my age (68) and with my present afflictions that I could mount much resistance.

Still doesn't change the fact that you are a poseur. Your obvious butchering of the King's English proves that to me beyond a shadow of a doubt. Fortunately, I have spent my life as a Black man working with members of my own race dispelling the "myth" of the street vernacular that you use in attempt to intimidate. Doesn't work with me, Sally.

have you lost your mind?

 

[RandallFlagg]

Agreed.

But you will have forever those on the radical fiscal right fighting this every step of the way in the context of blind adherence to the dogma of Social Darwinism.

Employers will continue to do everything in their power to keep wages low to maximize profit, taking advantage of an ever-more productive workforce:

Frankly, I have a hard time taking someone like you seriously. What I mean is that when I originally entered the workforce (at the ripe age of 14), I made $.80 per hour. I never once, at that part-time job EVER thought that I would make enough to support a family, buy a house, car and still have enough to send my kids to College. Go figure.

Subsequent jobs ( to include the military ) had the strangest circumstances! At each job, I made more and more money!!! I returned from Vietnam, went to College, graduated, got a nice job, made great money (never got rich - wouldn't want to offend you) got married, raised a family, bought several houses, sent the kids to college and now have a very nice retirement ( That I paid for - not you). Very comfortable in my old age.

The "moral" of this story? You want something "given" to you and your throwing a tantrum because those "evil old capitalists" aren't giving you what some clown told you that you are "due". Don't like it? QUIT!!!!! Get off your butt and look for a better job!!!!! Quit wasting your time HERE and do something CONSTRUCTIVE!!! Quit preaching and start achieving !!

A reality some, including you, are going to have to face at some point is that half of Americans are STUPID and incapable of achieving what was once considered normal.

Some people simply aren't capable of college or a decent job. That doesn't mean the government should support them,but a blind call for them to go to college and get a better job if they aren't successful is ignoring a few things.

1. Sending everyone to college not only increases the cost of college , it sends people who are wasting their and everyone elses time. There are many people in college already who have no business being there, and you want to increase their numbers?

2. There are many many service jobs in this country that must be done and can be done by people who aren't qualified for college or a job that a college degree would bring , but still need a full time job.

I personally believe that the minimum wage should be bumped to $20/HR and that all welfare save that of the emergency variety should be cut out of the budget.

We have entirely too many working poor in this country who have full time jobs and are honestly trying to make a living yet can't even feed their families without food stamps. As for those who won't work at all. I don't care about them, let them die. Able bodied only of course.

I consider welfare to be not only all traditional welfare, but pel grants , earned income credit etc etc.

We have to stop thinking that everyone in this country deserves to go to college, they don't.

And by the same token, we have to stop pretending like all menial jobs are some disgrace that a person should be ashamed of having, they are not.

I have a college degree, served several years in the Army and have owned my auto repair bushiness for several years,but if all that disappeared tomorrow and my family was hungry I'd say a big screw you to anyone who looked down on me for picking uptrash to feed them.

You see, you and I are not that far apart. I am one of those who believes that Obama is using "student loans" as a means of subliminal welfare. I absolutely agree that this "nonsense" of "everyone needs a college education" needs to stop and it needs to stop NOW. Everytime Barry opens his mouth it usually includes how terrible it s that we don't spend "more on teachers and education". That is nonsense of the highest degree. We spend more per student in this country than practically every other civilized nation on earth. And what has it gotten us? The lowest test scores in the the history of public education in the United States.

We have forgotten that in this country, carpenters, electricians, welders, plumbers, sheet metal workers, etc etc, USED to make damn good livings in this country. Now, on the other hand, we have a generation of young people who languish at University - chasing useless IT degrees and the like, only to join the unemployment roles as soon as they graduate.

Just another means of "relying" on government.....

 

[JustTheFacts]

Frankly, I have a hard time taking someone like you seriously. What I mean is that when I originally entered the workforce (at the ripe age of 14), I made $.80 per hour. I never once, at that part-time job EVER thought that I would make enough to support a family, buy a house, car and still have enough to send my kids to College. Go figure.

Subsequent jobs ( to include the military ) had the strangest circumstances! At each job, I made more and more money!!! I returned from Vietnam, went to College, graduated, got a nice job, made great money (never got rich - wouldn't want to offend you) got married, raised a family, bought several houses, sent the kids to college and now have a very nice retirement ( That I paid for - not you). Very comfortable in my old age.

The "moral" of this story? You want something "given" to you and your throwing a tantrum because those "evil old capitalists" aren't giving you what some clown told you that you are "due". Don't like it? QUIT!!!!! Get off your butt and look for a better job!!!!! Quit wasting your time HERE and do something CONSTRUCTIVE!!! Quit preaching and start achieving !!

A reality some, including you, are going to have to face at some point is that half of Americans are STUPID and incapable of achieving what was once considered normal.

Some people simply aren't capable of college or a decent job. That doesn't mean the government should support them,but a blind call for them to go to college and get a better job if they aren't successful is ignoring a few things.

1. Sending everyone to college not only increases the cost of college , it sends people who are wasting their and everyone elses time. There are many people in college already who have no business being there, and you want to increase their numbers?

2. There are many many service jobs in this country that must be done and can be done by people who aren't qualified for college or a job that a college degree would bring , but still need a full time job.

I personally believe that the minimum wage should be bumped to $20/HR and that all welfare save that of the emergency variety should be cut out of the budget.

We have entirely too many working poor in this country who have full time jobs and are honestly trying to make a living yet can't even feed their families without food stamps. As for those who won't work at all. I don't care about them, let them die. Able bodied only of course.

I consider welfare to be not only all traditional welfare, but pel grants , earned income credit etc etc.

We have to stop thinking that everyone in this country deserves to go to college, they don't.

And by the same token, we have to stop pretending like all menial jobs are some disgrace that a person should be ashamed of having, they are not.

I have a college degree, served several years in the Army and have owned my auto repair bushiness for several years,but if all that disappeared tomorrow and my family was hungry I'd say a big screw you to anyone who looked down on me for picking uptrash to feed them.

You see, you and I are not that far apart. I am one of those who believes that Obama is using "student loans" as a means of subliminal welfare. I absolutely agree that this "nonsense" of "everyone needs a college education" needs to stop and it needs to stop NOW. Everytime Barry opens his mouth it usually includes how terrible it s that we don't spend "more on teachers and education". That is nonsense of the highest degree. We spend more per student in this country than practically every other civilized nation on earth. And what has it gotten us? The lowest test scores in the the history of public education in the United States.

We have forgotten that in this country, carpenters, electricians, welders, plumbers, sheet metal workers, etc etc, USED to make damn good livings in this country. Now, on the other hand, we have a generation of young people who languish at University - chasing useless IT degrees and the like, only to join the unemployment roles as soon as they graduate.

Just another means of "relying" on government.....

And really if you consider it,supplementing working people's pay with welfare so that they can live above the poverty line is in fact subsidizing employers to pay low wages.

NO ONE who works a full time job of any kind should earn so little that they qualify for welfare. That's pathetic.

Doesn't mean every worker should get rich, nor even earn the same amount of money, but there is something fundamentally wrong with a system that allows the top 1% of employees in a company to earn 5000X what the lowest paid workers in the same company earn while at the same time the lowest paid 10% of those employees are on welfare.

That is just wrong.

 

[Dragonlady]

If the wealthiest people are not the job creators, who is? The bottom 1%?

The middle class. No capitalist society can exist without an large, vibrant middle class to with a decent amount of disposable income to drive consumption. Henry Ford became wealthy because he built cars for everyone, not because he catered to the wealthy. The more potential purchasers you have for your products and services, the greater your potential for wealth.

Cell phone companies didn't get rich until their products were priced for the masses. Few could afford the $5000 my friend paid for a cell phone back in the 1980's. Now every middle school kid has a cell phone and in most households, everyone has their own phone. Few homes had a microwave oven when I purchased mine for $800 back in the 1970's. Now you can pick them up for $50 or less.

Umm, this is where I must say, discussing economics with a person such as yourself becomes frustrating. Because you haven't a clue. All you have are liberal talking points.

They're not "talking points", they're actual facts about economic policies and investments. I don't listen to commentators or talking points - I read about economic policies, and the various results of applying economic theory throughout history. I'm sorry if I keep confusing you with facts. I know how Republicans are so used to the alternate versions of reality but out by Fox but they have no basis in fact.

I find talking economics with you because you have no understanding how the economy works or functions. You don't seem to understand that Wall Street is now flogging paper and other securities, not because they're good investments for their clients, but because they make the most money for the brokers selling them. The clients are just more sheep to be fleeced.

Look, you are Canadian. Which means your opinion counts as much as a flyspeck in the ocean.

You're posting your opinion on a public message board. How much weight do you think it has? My opinion is worth EXACTLY the same amount as yours.

Now you are making an argument FOR investment. Sheesh!

Oh course I am. Are you so ignorant that you think that liberals don't believe in capitalism? If you think that liberal = communist, you're an idiot. Social democracy is NOT communism, or even close to it.

Liberals don't believe in unfettered capitalism. They believe in a system where everyone does well - investors, managers, workers and consumers. One of my friends calls it "enlightented self-interest" or "doing well by doing good" - doing all of the right things by your workers, your customers and your investors, contributing to your community.

I was doing a search for for free market economies and found this fun quote. I have bolded the important part:

Do note that some people, when they say "Free Market", are implying a "True Free Market" type, also known as a Laissez Faire economy. This is an extreme form of free market, where government involvement in the economy (in any form) is virtually non-existent. No country currently uses a True Free Market type of economy, for the simple reason that it does not work.

K-mart was the only retailer that had full time regular employees.

I don't know how old you are but 20 years ago MOST retail was full-time. The trend to part-time employement has been going on over the past 20 years. As the costs for health insurance to employees went up, full-time employment went down.

“Over the past two decades, many major retailers went from a quotient of 70 to 80 percent full-time to at least 70 percent part-time across the industry,” said Burt P. Flickinger III, managing director of the Strategic Resource Group, a retail consulting firm.

Who exactly are "my people". I loathe unions with a passion. I once turned down a job because it involved joining a union. Sometimes they're a necessary evil but I don't want to join. When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me. Mostly U, because every one of your assumptions about me, have been wrong.

 

[JustTheFacts]

If the wealthiest people are not the job creators, who is? The bottom 1%?

The middle class. No capitalist society can exist without an large, vibrant middle class to with a decent amount of disposable income to drive consumption. Henry Ford became wealthy because he built cars for everyone, not because he catered to the wealthy. The more potential purchasers you have for your products and services, the greater your potential for wealth.

Cell phone companies didn't get rich until their products were priced for the masses. Few could afford the $5000 my friend paid for a cell phone back in the 1980's. Now every middle school kid has a cell phone and in most households, everyone has their own phone. Few homes had a microwave oven when I purchased mine for $800 back in the 1970's. Now you can pick them up for $50 or less.

Umm, this is where I must say, discussing economics with a person such as yourself becomes frustrating. Because you haven't a clue. All you have are liberal talking points.

They're not "talking points", they're actual facts about economic policies and investments. I don't listen to commentators or talking points - I read about economic policies, and the various results of applying economic theory throughout history. I'm sorry if I keep confusing you with facts. I know how Republicans are so used to the alternate versions of reality but out by Fox but they have no basis in fact.

I find talking economics with you because you have no understanding how the economy works or functions. You don't seem to understand that Wall Street is now flogging paper and other securities, not because they're good investments for their clients, but because they make the most money for the brokers selling them. The clients are just more sheep to be fleeced.



You're posting your opinion on a public message board. How much weight do you think it has? My opinion is worth EXACTLY the same amount as yours.



Oh course I am. Are you so ignorant that you think that liberals don't believe in capitalism? If you think that liberal = communist, you're an idiot. Social democracy is NOT communism, or even close to it.

Liberals don't believe in unfettered capitalism. They believe in a system where everyone does well - investors, managers, workers and consumers. One of my friends calls it "enlightented self-interest" or "doing well by doing good" - doing all of the right things by your workers, your customers and your investors, contributing to your community.

I was doing a search for for free market economies and found this fun quote. I have bolded the important part:

K-mart was the only retailer that had full time regular employees.

I don't know how old you are but 20 years ago MOST retail was full-time. The trend to part-time employement has been going on over the past 20 years. As the costs for health insurance to employees went up, full-time employment went down.

“Over the past two decades, many major retailers went from a quotient of 70 to 80 percent full-time to at least 70 percent part-time across the industry,” said Burt P. Flickinger III, managing director of the Strategic Resource Group, a retail consulting firm.

Who exactly are "my people". I loathe unions with a passion. I once turned down a job because it involved joining a union. Sometimes they're a necessary evil but I don't want to join. When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me. Mostly U, because every one of your assumptions about me, have been wrong.

good reason to NOT require employer to provide health care insurance for one.

 

[Dragonlady]

good reason to NOT require employer to provide health care insurance for one.

IMO, it's a good reason to require ALL employers to provide health insurance. In Canada, all employers pay health tax on both full and part-time employees. Of course employer health tax (just under 1% of salary) is a LOT cheaper than US health insurance.

 

[RandallFlagg]

A reality some, including you, are going to have to face at some point is that half of Americans are STUPID and incapable of achieving what was once considered normal.

Some people simply aren't capable of college or a decent job. That doesn't mean the government should support them,but a blind call for them to go to college and get a better job if they aren't successful is ignoring a few things.

1. Sending everyone to college not only increases the cost of college , it sends people who are wasting their and everyone elses time. There are many people in college already who have no business being there, and you want to increase their numbers?

2. There are many many service jobs in this country that must be done and can be done by people who aren't qualified for college or a job that a college degree would bring , but still need a full time job.

I personally believe that the minimum wage should be bumped to $20/HR and that all welfare save that of the emergency variety should be cut out of the budget.

We have entirely too many working poor in this country who have full time jobs and are honestly trying to make a living yet can't even feed their families without food stamps. As for those who won't work at all. I don't care about them, let them die. Able bodied only of course.

I consider welfare to be not only all traditional welfare, but pel grants , earned income credit etc etc.

We have to stop thinking that everyone in this country deserves to go to college, they don't.

And by the same token, we have to stop pretending like all menial jobs are some disgrace that a person should be ashamed of having, they are not.

I have a college degree, served several years in the Army and have owned my auto repair bushiness for several years,but if all that disappeared tomorrow and my family was hungry I'd say a big screw you to anyone who looked down on me for picking uptrash to feed them.

You see, you and I are not that far apart. I am one of those who believes that Obama is using "student loans" as a means of subliminal welfare. I absolutely agree that this "nonsense" of "everyone needs a college education" needs to stop and it needs to stop NOW. Everytime Barry opens his mouth it usually includes how terrible it s that we don't spend "more on teachers and education". That is nonsense of the highest degree. We spend more per student in this country than practically every other civilized nation on earth. And what has it gotten us? The lowest test scores in the the history of public education in the United States.

We have forgotten that in this country, carpenters, electricians, welders, plumbers, sheet metal workers, etc etc, USED to make damn good livings in this country. Now, on the other hand, we have a generation of young people who languish at University - chasing useless IT degrees and the like, only to join the unemployment roles as soon as they graduate.

Just another means of "relying" on government.....

And really if you consider it,supplementing working people's pay with welfare so that they can live above the poverty line is in fact subsidizing employers to pay low wages.

NO ONE who works a full time job of any kind should earn so little that they qualify for welfare. That's pathetic.

Doesn't mean every worker should get rich, nor even earn the same amount of money, but there is something fundamentally wrong with a system that allows the top 1% of employees in a company to earn 5000X what the lowest paid workers in the same company earn while at the same time the lowest paid 10% of those employees are on welfare.

That is just wrong.

NO ONE who works a full time job of any kind should earn so little that they qualify for welfare. That's pathetic.

Sorry, but you lose me there. It has been my position since I was a kid that if I'm not being paid what I feel is a fair wage, then I quit. It's a simple proposition. Company "A" offers me employment at a specified rate of pay. That is what THEY are offering ME to do a job. If I don't believe that wage to be fair and will not allow me the opportunity to pay bills, etc, then I decline the offer.

I have never, I my life accepted unemployment insurance, welfare or government assistance of ANY kind. I wasn't raised that way and I don't believe that way.

A person laying around on his hiney for 2+ years sucking on the public teat, has no intention of working. I recall that my Dad, an Officer in the US Air Force supplemented his income by working Security at wrestling matches in the early 60s. There is no job that is beneath anyone, if it is honest work.

 

[RandallFlagg]

good reason to NOT require employer to provide health care insurance for one.

IMO, it's a good reason to require ALL employers to provide health insurance. In Canada, all employers pay health tax on both full and part-time employees. Of course employer health tax (just under 1% of salary) is a LOT cheaper than US health insurance.

Would that explain why so many Canucks come across the border for surgeries??

Again, as Margaret Thatcher once stated: " Socialism is great, until you run out of other people's money"

 

[thereisnospoon]

Well then, let us revisit the past and see why ordinary Americans believe that corporations should operate in a way that enhances society.

Recurrent observations Paul Rutherford made throughout "Endless Propaganda; The Advertising of Public Goods" were that business interests used advertising to promote the idea of the corporation as a public good; corporations disciplined the media through corrective advertising and withholding advertising dollars; and that advertisers partnered with government and charitable organizations to direct policy, enhance corporations public image, and insulate business from criticism.

In response to their negative image and calls for regulation of industry during the Great Depression, corporations cooperated to produce advertisements designed to “sell business, tarnish labor, and ward off government” In 1942, rather than ward off government, advertisers partnered with government to produce “civic advertising” via the Wartime Advertising Council, improving the public image of advertisers and business by supporting the war effort, and emphasizing their usefulness to government officials.

Once the war ended, the infrastructure of the council remained under the truncated heading “Advertising Council.” The Advertising Council was still very connected with government, but even more so to “corporate America.” One of the most important functions of the Advertising Council was to promote “social advertising,” making the Advertising Council a bridge between businesses, charitable, social, and government elites. Rutherford identified the initial capitalist propaganda initiatives as failures, but government did start listening more to business, and corporations, through the Advertising Council, were firmly entrenched in both the government and social spheres. Whatever their early mistakes, their position was set, their presence known, and their authority accepted.

source:

Paul Rutherford, Endless Propaganda; The Advertising of Public Goods, University of TORONTO Press, Toronto, Buffalo, London, 2000

So you see, business itself is what is responsible for the public perception that it does (therefore it should) operate as a public good rather than a detriment of a civilized society.

The same propaganda machine is NOW pushing the idea that they are NOT abdicating the same fucking responsibility that IT sold to the American public in the first place as a justification for ITS position, ITS privilege, ITS power. Because IT owns all the media content (most of) YOU see, IT is massively successful.

Mass culture, Mass media, MASS manipulation.

Congratulations, the idiot box owns YOU.

And WHO is Paul Rutherford? Ahh yes, another all knowing all seeing "I say therefore it shall be"...
Yep..One guy's opinion. Case closed. Gee barb, you just nailed it here.

You really aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, are you? Still, you ARE a tool, and you'll always have that.

Paul Rutherford's work is documented, referenced, and peer reviewed enough to be considered authoritative reading and documentation for graduate level course work. What have you published (or read) lately that meet those standards?

What's your point?
That Rutherford is an unbiased authority?
Please try not to make me laugh.

 

[thereisnospoon]

good reason to NOT require employer to provide health care insurance for one.

IMO, it's a good reason to require ALL employers to provide health insurance. In Canada, all employers pay health tax on both full and part-time employees. Of course employer health tax (just under 1% of salary) is a LOT cheaper than US health insurance.

Canada has rationed care.
I can get an MRI by this Friday. You'd have to wait two months.

 

[elvis]

good reason to NOT require employer to provide health care insurance for one.

IMO, it's a good reason to require ALL employers to provide health insurance. In Canada, all employers pay health tax on both full and part-time employees. Of course employer health tax (just under 1% of salary) is a LOT cheaper than US health insurance.

Canada has rationed care.
I can get an MRI by this Friday. You'd have to wait two months.

They like to leave that part out.

 

[Dragonlady]

Canada has rationed care.
I can get an MRI by this Friday. You'd have to wait two months.

Will your insurance company approve it that quickly? What if the insurance company refuses to pay? What will you have to pay for your MRI? My research says that the average cost of MRI's is somewhere between $2000 and $3000 although some can cost more than $5000. How much is your co-pay?

I can get an MRI tomorrow, IF I need one. Our system is based on triage. If I have no urgent need but I am considering having knee surgery to fix an old sports injury, I may have to wait, but if I have a brain tumour and need surgery, I go to the head of the line. That's how triage works. No pre-approvals, no paperwork on my part. And no-copays.

My daughter needed to see a pediatric orthopedic surgeon after she injured her knee. The waiting list was six months at that time (late 1990's when waiting lists were awful). Our pediatrician made a phone call and my daughter was in the orthopod's office the next morning.

Triage. You can't always get what you want, but you will get what you need.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Canada has rationed care.
I can get an MRI by this Friday. You'd have to wait two months.

Will your insurance company approve it that quickly? What if the insurance company refuses to pay? What will you have to pay for your MRI? My research says that the average cost of MRI's is somewhere between $2000 and $3000 although some can cost more than $5000. How much is your co-pay?

I can get an MRI tomorrow, IF I need one. Our system is based on triage. If I have no urgent need but I am considering having knee surgery to fix an old sports injury, I may have to wait, but if I have a brain tumour and need surgery, I go to the head of the line. That's how triage works. No pre-approvals, no paperwork on my part. And no-copays.

My daughter needed to see a pediatric orthopedic surgeon after she injured her knee. The waiting list was six months at that time (late 1990's when waiting lists were awful). Our pediatrician made a phone call and my daughter was in the orthopod's office the next morning.

Triage. You can't always get what you want, but you will get what you need.

Yes, about ten years ago I was getting these unusual headaches. I went to my primary care Doc the next day. Two days after that I was in "the tube".
Dateline, Pickering, ON....My friend's brother injured his knee doing what else, playing in his rec hockey league. His knee swelled to soccer ball size. He went to his primary Doc and he scheduled the next available MRI appointment.....6 WEEKS later. 6 WEEKS....
This is quite common in most if not all countries with socialized medicine.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Canada has rationed care.
I can get an MRI by this Friday. You'd have to wait two months.

Will your insurance company approve it that quickly? What if the insurance company refuses to pay? What will you have to pay for your MRI? My research says that the average cost of MRI's is somewhere between $2000 and $3000 although some can cost more than $5000. How much is your co-pay?

I can get an MRI tomorrow, IF I need one. Our system is based on triage. If I have no urgent need but I am considering having knee surgery to fix an old sports injury, I may have to wait, but if I have a brain tumour and need surgery, I go to the head of the line. That's how triage works. No pre-approvals, no paperwork on my part. And no-copays.

My daughter needed to see a pediatric orthopedic surgeon after she injured her knee. The waiting list was six months at that time (late 1990's when waiting lists were awful). Our pediatrician made a phone call and my daughter was in the orthopod's office the next morning.

Triage. You can't always get what you want, but you will get what you need.

There is no "what if"..Hey genius, to find out what is covered and what is not, READ THE POLICY...DUH!!!!!!
Co-pay? $25...$50 for emergency room treatment.
MRI cost me zippo.
People here think Obama care is going to offer them on demand medical treatment free of out of pocket expense..
If anything, people of moderate income and on up will see their insurance costs rise dramatically. While the parasites here will receive another entitlement. BUT......They will be in for a HUGE surprise. Those visits to the hospital for the sniffles they have been used to? GONE!!!!!!Those services will no longer be available because the money won't be there anymore. Hospitals and doctor's offices will get it from both ends.
Their reimbursement payments will be slashed and the new federal regulations will leave these facilities unable to provide the "charity care" ( OH YES THEY DO)....they provide now.
On the other hand doctor's offices will see their equipment costs rise, as well as their administrative expenses. All that government regulation comes at a hefty price.
See, Obama presented his health plan as a way to insure more people and control costs.
What it does it slash Medicare, mandate that medical care be dispensed free of charge to the poorest people and reduces the amount of money reimbursed for treatment.
The reality is Obamacare controls "PRICE".. It does not control "COST"..
This is government manipulating the marketplace.
In the next few years after Jan 1/2014, we will see the real effects of Obamacare.
And it is not going to be pleasant.

 

[Dragonlady]

Yes, about ten years ago I was getting these unusual headaches. I went to my primary care Doc the next day. Two days after that I was in "the tube".
Dateline, Pickering, ON....My friend's brother injured his knee doing what else, playing in his rec hockey league. His knee swelled to soccer ball size. He went to his primary Doc and he scheduled the next available MRI appointment.....6 WEEKS later. 6 WEEKS....
This is quite common in most if not all countries with socialized medicine.

You didn't answer my question: How much did you pay for your MRI?

In your situation, you would have had your MRI right away in Canada too. Your friend had a soft tissue injury. Unpleasant but not urgent. That's how triage works.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Canada has rationed care.
I can get an MRI by this Friday. You'd have to wait two months.

Will your insurance company approve it that quickly? What if the insurance company refuses to pay? What will you have to pay for your MRI? My research says that the average cost of MRI's is somewhere between $2000 and $3000 although some can cost more than $5000. How much is your co-pay?

I can get an MRI tomorrow, IF I need one. Our system is based on triage. If I have no urgent need but I am considering having knee surgery to fix an old sports injury, I may have to wait, but if I have a brain tumour and need surgery, I go to the head of the line. That's how triage works. No pre-approvals, no paperwork on my part. And no-copays.

My daughter needed to see a pediatric orthopedic surgeon after she injured her knee. The waiting list was six months at that time (late 1990's when waiting lists were awful). Our pediatrician made a phone call and my daughter was in the orthopod's office the next morning.

Triage. You can't always get what you want, but you will get what you need.

There is no "what if"..Hey genius, to find out what is covered and what is not, READ THE POLICY...DUH!!!!!!
Co-pay? $25...$50 for emergency room treatment.
MRI cost me zippo.
People here think Obama care is going to offer them on demand medical treatment free of out of pocket expense..
If anything, people of moderate income and on up will see their insurance costs rise dramatically. While the parasites here will receive another entitlement. BUT......They will be in for a HUGE surprise. Those visits to the hospital for the sniffles they have been used to? GONE!!!!!!Those services will no longer be available because the money won't be there anymore. Hospitals and doctor's offices will get it from both ends.
Their reimbursement payments will be slashed and the new federal regulations will leave these facilities unable to provide the "charity care" ( OH YES THEY DO)....they provide now.
On the other hand doctor's offices will see their equipment costs rise, as well as their administrative expenses. All that government regulation comes at a hefty price.
See, Obama presented his health plan as a way to insure more people and control costs.
What it does it slash Medicare, mandate that medical care be dispensed free of charge to the poorest people and reduces the amount of money reimbursed for treatment.
The reality is Obamacare controls "PRICE".. It does not control "COST"..
This is government manipulating the marketplace.
In the next few years after Jan 1/2014, we will see the real effects of Obamacare.
And it is not going to be pleasant.

I wouldn't even have minded "Obamacare" if it actually addressed the issue, but it didn't. IT won't lower ANY costs, and virtually EVERYONE agrees with that assessment.

It would have been far cheaper just to build a free clinic in ever Wal Mart in America and told people "limited services, but free now quit going to hospital emergency rooms as your primary care because they will no longer service you for free"

Hell, I'd even be okay had they done this and included yearly checkups.

 

[Dragonlady]

There is no "what if"..Hey genius, to find out what is covered and what is not, READ THE POLICY...DUH!!!!!!

Many of my American friends have had to pay for tests because their insurance company said refused to pay saying the test was unnecessary. Your friend who wanted an MRI for his knee - why not an X-ray - cheaper and available same day?

If anything, people of moderate income and on up will see their insurance costs rise dramatically. While the parasites here will receive another entitlement. BUT......They will be in for a HUGE surprise. Those visits to the hospital for the sniffles they have been used to? GONE!!!!!!Those services will no longer be available because the money won't be there anymore. Hospitals and doctor's offices will get it from both ends.

First off, people of moderates incomes got REFUNDS last year from their insurance companies because the insurance companies can't just deny coverage and keep your premiums any more, so rates are going DOWN not up.

The uninsured aren't going to hospitals for the sniffles, they're waiting until they're deathly ill before going for treatment. That part of the reason your health care costs are so high.

And then you trot out all of the right-wing scare stories about how terrible it's all going to be. We've been hearing these scare stories since the Clintons tried to reform health care. And yet everything that has happened so far has been positive. Insurance companies are refunding excessive premiums, preventative annual checkups are now covered with no co-pay. So far, so good.

 

[Oddball]

IMO, it's a good reason to require ALL employers to provide health insurance. In Canada, all employers pay health tax on both full and part-time employees. Of course employer health tax (just under 1% of salary) is a LOT cheaper than US health insurance.

Canada has rationed care.
I can get an MRI by this Friday. You'd have to wait two months.

They like to leave that part out.

They also like to leave out the part where hospitals in places like Seattle, Minneapolis and Buffalo are overrun with Canadians, seeking medical attention on demand with cash on the barrel head.

 

[Dragonlady]

They also like to leave out the part where hospitals in places like Seattle, Minneapolis and Buffalo are overrun with Canadians, seeking medical attention on demand with cash on the barrel head.

Studies have shown that this is not true. Furthermore, these studies have shown that when Canadians do go to US hospitals for treatment, they go because they happen to be in the US and have a medical emergency. The numbers of Canadians who travel to the US specifically to receive medical treatment is very small. Probably about the same as the number of Americans who come to Canada for treatment.

They come because our country is one of the leading medical research countries in the world, and and because *gasp* it costs nearly 50% less to be treated in Canada.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Canada has rationed care.
I can get an MRI by this Friday. You'd have to wait two months.

They like to leave that part out.

They also like to leave out the part where hospitals in places like Seattle, Minneapolis and Buffalo are overrun with Canadians, seeking medical attention on demand with cash on the barrel head.

That's what I was saying earlier. My Wife is a NP (Nurse Practitioner) and they constantly have to deal with Canucks coming across the border for services that they have already been told will take months (if not years) to get in Canada.

Yet, these same folks come here, on this board, and tell US how great Obama care will be. What the heck??? Trying to spread the pain around???