55 Million Lives Aborted. . . in the name of choice

[PratchettFan]

The life altering decision occurs long before someone gets pregnant. It isn't about making life altering decisions. It's about taking the life of another human being, your own child, because you don't want to face the consequences of your actions.

Killing your child doesn't magically become good because it would be inconvenient if you don't.

But if I accidently had a kid right now I would most likely have to drop out of college, get a real job, not go to law school and work for 17 bucks an hour for the first 20 years of my life. My gf would probably have to do the same, besides the whole grad school thing. and now were living right at the low income-mid income line because trojan couldnt make a reliable product. What right do you have to tell me what I can or cant do with my life? Its completely legal, but because im not living up to your moral code makes me a bad person? you can have your code, ill take my life.

The condom is the worst reliable source of birth-control next to the rhythm method. Because you are stupid enough to create a kid when you can't afford one, you think you should have the right to kill the kid. Supposing your girlfriend doesn't agree? It's her decision after all. <something I don't understand, how only the mother determines if the child is a baby or a fetus>

There are only two people involved. The fetus and the mother. The tendency on both sides of this issue is to pretend that there is only one person, depending upon which side they are on. But there are two.

The question is, should a woman be forced by the government to allow another person to use her body against her will? I believe that no human being has a right to use the body of another human being without the permission of that person. It does not matter what the need is. So I am pro-choice. But the father's body is not being used. He has no say in the matter unless the mother wishes to take his desires into account.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Yet, you are the one advocating KILLING people.

No. I'm the one advocating leaving that decision to the people involved. Are you opposed to killing people?

Yes. I am opposed to killing innocent children. That's why oppose abortion.

There is an abortion sacrament in the bible. The biblical God ordered brutal abortions to be carried out by his chosen people. Your God also ordered the en masse killing of innocent children. So are you opposed to your Deity's orders too?

 

[Derideo_Te]

For reasons that I have never understood, a minority of Americans simply do not grasp what the Supreme Court understands, which is that a fetus is not a baby. The majority of this minority are, of course, male.

One day if you are blessed with children, you will be able to see an ultrasound of your child with their heart beating and them moving around. No one can deny that there is a new human life growing when they see that.

But then, it's much easier to remain in ignorance and pretend these children arent human. It eases the conscience when you want them dead.

The majority of all abortions occur long before the ultrasound shows that level of development. Furthermore distinguishing between between a human embryo and any other is beyond the ability of the average person. As far as ignorance goes you can click on the link below to find out just how much you actually do know about fetal development.

Which embryo is human?

Until viability the survival of the fetus is the responsibility of the woman carrying it. You don't have the right to dictate to her what she does anymore than you can stop your God from aborting the fetus. Something he does millions of times every day.

 

[Againsheila]

Yes, the mother decides. If she's 6 months pregnant, she can get an abortion, but if she's 6 months pregnant and wants the baby and some idiot kills her and the child, he can be charged with both murders. So yes, it's a baby only if the mother wants the child.

Wrong. One is a medical procedure, the other is an assault resulting in the death of a fetus the woman intended to carry to term.

Why can't lifers understand the difference?

A lifer here is someone who is in jail for life.

The medical procedure results in the death of a baby the woman didn't want, the assault results in the death of a fetus the woman wanted, why is it only the woman has a right to decide the difference? Suppose the father wants the baby, why does he have no say? Supposing he doesn't want the baby, again, why does he have no say. Why is it only the mother can decide not to be a mother AFTER conception?



See? Baby/fetus, makes all the difference in the world and is only determined on the mother's say.

Supposing a woman secretly decides to have an abortion but before she does is assaulted and loses the child and the man is arrested for manslaughter or murder. Supposing she doesn't like him so she let's the charge stand. How is that right? She get's to murder the child with no charges but anyone else does and they go to jail.

Either it's a baby or a fetus, it can't be both. It's time to make our laws fair to everyone.

If she can abort legally than it's a fetus and it's a fetus whether she wants it or not. You can't put a person in jail for murdering a fetus. You cannot have it both ways.

Now I'm not saying the man shouldn't go to jail for assault in causing the miscarriage, just not manslaughter or murder since the baby is a fetus, not a baby.

And if it's a baby, and the man does get charged with manslaughter or murder, then the woman should also face the same charges if she aborts.

See how that works? It's called fairness.

 

[Againsheila]

But if I accidently had a kid right now I would most likely have to drop out of college, get a real job, not go to law school and work for 17 bucks an hour for the first 20 years of my life. My gf would probably have to do the same, besides the whole grad school thing. and now were living right at the low income-mid income line because trojan couldnt make a reliable product. What right do you have to tell me what I can or cant do with my life? Its completely legal, but because im not living up to your moral code makes me a bad person? you can have your code, ill take my life.

The condom is the worst reliable source of birth-control next to the rhythm method. Because you are stupid enough to create a kid when you can't afford one, you think you should have the right to kill the kid. Supposing your girlfriend doesn't agree? It's her decision after all. <something I don't understand, how only the mother determines if the child is a baby or a fetus>

There are only two people involved. The fetus and the mother. The tendency on both sides of this issue is to pretend that there is only one person, depending upon which side they are on. But there are two.

The question is, should a woman be forced by the government to allow another person to use her body against her will? I believe that no human being has a right to use the body of another human being without the permission of that person. It does not matter what the need is. So I am pro-choice. But the father's body is not being used. He has no say in the matter unless the mother wishes to take his desires into account.

Unless the conception was due to rape, the child is in the woman's body by her permission.

 

[PratchettFan]

The condom is the worst reliable source of birth-control next to the rhythm method. Because you are stupid enough to create a kid when you can't afford one, you think you should have the right to kill the kid. Supposing your girlfriend doesn't agree? It's her decision after all. <something I don't understand, how only the mother determines if the child is a baby or a fetus>

There are only two people involved. The fetus and the mother. The tendency on both sides of this issue is to pretend that there is only one person, depending upon which side they are on. But there are two.

The question is, should a woman be forced by the government to allow another person to use her body against her will? I believe that no human being has a right to use the body of another human being without the permission of that person. It does not matter what the need is. So I am pro-choice. But the father's body is not being used. He has no say in the matter unless the mother wishes to take his desires into account.

Unless the conception was due to rape, the child is in the woman's body by her permission.

That is not only untrue, it is irrelevant. A woman having an abortion clearly is not giving permission for a child to be in her body. The choice is hers and hers alone. If you do not wish to make that choice, you are free not to make it. But you do not make that choice for anyone else.

If you object to the man having no say in the process, I suggest to make your complaint to the manufacturer.

 

[Againsheila]

There are only two people involved. The fetus and the mother. The tendency on both sides of this issue is to pretend that there is only one person, depending upon which side they are on. But there are two.

The question is, should a woman be forced by the government to allow another person to use her body against her will? I believe that no human being has a right to use the body of another human being without the permission of that person. It does not matter what the need is. So I am pro-choice. But the father's body is not being used. He has no say in the matter unless the mother wishes to take his desires into account.

Unless the conception was due to rape, the child is in the woman's body by her permission.

That is not only untrue, it is irrelevant. A woman having an abortion clearly is not giving permission for a child to be in her body. The choice is hers and hers alone. If you do not wish to make that choice, you are free not to make it. But you do not make that choice for anyone else.

If you object to the man having no say in the process, I suggest to make your complaint to the manufacturer.

So you are telling me that women are so stupid that they don't know that sex can lead to pregnancy?

 

[PratchettFan]

Unless the conception was due to rape, the child is in the woman's body by her permission.

That is not only untrue, it is irrelevant. A woman having an abortion clearly is not giving permission for a child to be in her body. The choice is hers and hers alone. If you do not wish to make that choice, you are free not to make it. But you do not make that choice for anyone else.

If you object to the man having no say in the process, I suggest to make your complaint to the manufacturer.

So you are telling me that women are so stupid that they don't know that sex can lead to pregnancy?

No. I am telling you that it is not your choice to make for anyone but yourself.

 

[Againsheila]

That is not only untrue, it is irrelevant. A woman having an abortion clearly is not giving permission for a child to be in her body. The choice is hers and hers alone. If you do not wish to make that choice, you are free not to make it. But you do not make that choice for anyone else.

If you object to the man having no say in the process, I suggest to make your complaint to the manufacturer.

So you are telling me that women are so stupid that they don't know that sex can lead to pregnancy?

No. I am telling you that it is not your choice to make for anyone but yourself.

She made her choice when she had sex. She certainly is not innocent or stupid or naive. I'm not making that choice for her, she made it for herself, I'm simply saying that once you are pregnant, it's a little late to say you don't want to be pregnant. Sometimes abortions are necessary, for that reason I don't want them outlawed, but it is still extinguishing a life whenever an abortion is performed, including accidental miscarriages. Yes, I've had one and I still mourn for the child that I never held in my arms. So, are you going to tell me that that child was worth less because he/she wasn't yet born? That is exactly what you are saying when you say women have a right to an abortion based only on their "choice". I say they gave up that choice when they got pregnant in the first place, except for extenuating circumstances. Rape is a big one and because many women even today do not report rape, abortion should never be made illegal. That doesn't mean a woman should have a right to chose to kill a child she created willingly.

 

[Derideo_Te]

It isnt advocating killing people, its not wanting others to be in charge of a life altering decision. Like I said, if cast into that situation I would personally adopt it, but it is not my place to tell another what they can or cannot do with their body. I thinks thats what the poster meant.

That is what I meant.

And it's a cop out because you are too afraid to take a stand against killing children.

The ultimate cop out is someone who is so afraid of dying that he is willing to give up his own "free will" and turn himself into a "servant" instead.

 

[Hollie]

So you are telling me that women are so stupid that they don't know that sex can lead to pregnancy?

No. I am telling you that it is not your choice to make for anyone but yourself.

She made her choice when she had sex. She certainly is not innocent or stupid or naive. I'm not making that choice for her, she made it for herself, I'm simply saying that once you are pregnant, it's a little late to say you don't want to be pregnant. Sometimes abortions are necessary, for that reason I don't want them outlawed, but it is still extinguishing a life whenever an abortion is performed, including accidental miscarriages. Yes, I've had one and I still mourn for the child that I never held in my arms. So, are you going to tell me that that child was worth less because he/she wasn't yet born? That is exactly what you are saying when you say women have a right to an abortion based only on their "choice". I say they gave up that choice when they got pregnant in the first place, except for extenuating circumstances. Rape is a big one and because many women even today do not report rape, abortion should never be made illegal. That doesn't mean a woman should have a right to chose to kill a child she created willingly.

Some may have it that a zygote exhibiting no brain waves or heartbeat (no brain, no heart) is, despite all evidence to the contrary, a person. These folks would claim you destroyed an oak tree if you picked up an acorn. On the other end of the spectrum, you'll find those who equate gestation with a form of unfettered biological tyrrany, and the developing zygote/embryo/fetus/child is subject to eviction by the womb owner at any time throughout the nine month residence. Roe vs Wade is a reasonable solution in principle, but subject to modification predicated upon scientific progress - i.e, an earlier point of viability via artificial incubation.

 

[pjnlsn]

I've no problem with abortion. Now, if it was my kid, I might just have a great problem with that happening, if I identified with the baby in question, even if it was merely a blob of cells without a particularly human shape or form, which obviously some people are inclined to do under certain circumstances.

But to have a problem with random faceless people out in the world or just among the hundreds of millions in the US aborting their offspring? Not really, no.

 

[PratchettFan]

So you are telling me that women are so stupid that they don't know that sex can lead to pregnancy?

No. I am telling you that it is not your choice to make for anyone but yourself.

She made her choice when she had sex. She certainly is not innocent or stupid or naive. I'm not making that choice for her, she made it for herself, I'm simply saying that once you are pregnant, it's a little late to say you don't want to be pregnant. Sometimes abortions are necessary, for that reason I don't want them outlawed, but it is still extinguishing a life whenever an abortion is performed, including accidental miscarriages. Yes, I've had one and I still mourn for the child that I never held in my arms. So, are you going to tell me that that child was worth less because he/she wasn't yet born? That is exactly what you are saying when you say women have a right to an abortion based only on their "choice". I say they gave up that choice when they got pregnant in the first place, except for extenuating circumstances. Rape is a big one and because many women even today do not report rape, abortion should never be made illegal. That doesn't mean a woman should have a right to chose to kill a child she created willingly.

You can say anything you like. The decision, however, is hers and hers alone. She doesn't have to justify herself to you or answer to you. She has the right to make that decision whether you like it or not.

 

[Againsheila]

No. I am telling you that it is not your choice to make for anyone but yourself.

She made her choice when she had sex. She certainly is not innocent or stupid or naive. I'm not making that choice for her, she made it for herself, I'm simply saying that once you are pregnant, it's a little late to say you don't want to be pregnant. Sometimes abortions are necessary, for that reason I don't want them outlawed, but it is still extinguishing a life whenever an abortion is performed, including accidental miscarriages. Yes, I've had one and I still mourn for the child that I never held in my arms. So, are you going to tell me that that child was worth less because he/she wasn't yet born? That is exactly what you are saying when you say women have a right to an abortion based only on their "choice". I say they gave up that choice when they got pregnant in the first place, except for extenuating circumstances. Rape is a big one and because many women even today do not report rape, abortion should never be made illegal. That doesn't mean a woman should have a right to chose to kill a child she created willingly.

You can say anything you like. The decision, however, is hers and hers alone. She doesn't have to justify herself to you or answer to you. She has the right to make that decision whether you like it or not.

Everybody has rights to do certain things whether I like it or not, I also have the right to point out that it's wrong in the greater scheme of things and Karma always comes back to bite you in the a&&.

 

[PratchettFan]

She made her choice when she had sex. She certainly is not innocent or stupid or naive. I'm not making that choice for her, she made it for herself, I'm simply saying that once you are pregnant, it's a little late to say you don't want to be pregnant. Sometimes abortions are necessary, for that reason I don't want them outlawed, but it is still extinguishing a life whenever an abortion is performed, including accidental miscarriages. Yes, I've had one and I still mourn for the child that I never held in my arms. So, are you going to tell me that that child was worth less because he/she wasn't yet born? That is exactly what you are saying when you say women have a right to an abortion based only on their "choice". I say they gave up that choice when they got pregnant in the first place, except for extenuating circumstances. Rape is a big one and because many women even today do not report rape, abortion should never be made illegal. That doesn't mean a woman should have a right to chose to kill a child she created willingly.

You can say anything you like. The decision, however, is hers and hers alone. She doesn't have to justify herself to you or answer to you. She has the right to make that decision whether you like it or not.

Everybody has rights to do certain things whether I like it or not, I also have the right to point out that it's wrong in the greater scheme of things and Karma always comes back to bite you in the a&&.

So long as we agree she has the right even if you think it is wrong. Even if I think it is wrong.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

No. I am telling you that it is not your choice to make for anyone but yourself.

She made her choice when she had sex. She certainly is not innocent or stupid or naive. I'm not making that choice for her, she made it for herself, I'm simply saying that once you are pregnant, it's a little late to say you don't want to be pregnant. Sometimes abortions are necessary, for that reason I don't want them outlawed, but it is still extinguishing a life whenever an abortion is performed, including accidental miscarriages. Yes, I've had one and I still mourn for the child that I never held in my arms. So, are you going to tell me that that child was worth less because he/she wasn't yet born? That is exactly what you are saying when you say women have a right to an abortion based only on their "choice". I say they gave up that choice when they got pregnant in the first place, except for extenuating circumstances. Rape is a big one and because many women even today do not report rape, abortion should never be made illegal. That doesn't mean a woman should have a right to chose to kill a child she created willingly.

Some may have it that a zygote exhibiting no brain waves or heartbeat (no brain, no heart) is, despite all evidence to the contrary, a person. These folks would claim you destroyed an oak tree if you picked up an acorn. On the other end of the spectrum, you'll find those who equate gestation with a form of unfettered biological tyrrany, and the developing zygote/embryo/fetus/child is subject to eviction by the womb owner at any time throughout the nine month residence. Roe vs Wade is a reasonable solution in principle, but subject to modification predicated upon scientific progress - i.e, an earlier point of viability via artificial incubation.

Roe was ‘modified,’ in Casey the time limit was replaced with the doctrine of ‘no undue burden,’ allowing the states greater latitude and flexibility with regard to placing limits and restrictions on abortion.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So you are telling me that women are so stupid that they don't know that sex can lead to pregnancy?

No. I am telling you that it is not your choice to make for anyone but yourself.

She made her choice when she had sex. She certainly is not innocent or stupid or naive. I'm not making that choice for her, she made it for herself, I'm simply saying that once you are pregnant, it's a little late to say you don't want to be pregnant. Sometimes abortions are necessary, for that reason I don't want them outlawed, but it is still extinguishing a life whenever an abortion is performed, including accidental miscarriages. Yes, I've had one and I still mourn for the child that I never held in my arms. So, are you going to tell me that that child was worth less because he/she wasn't yet born? That is exactly what you are saying when you say women have a right to an abortion based only on their "choice". I say they gave up that choice when they got pregnant in the first place, except for extenuating circumstances. Rape is a big one and because many women even today do not report rape, abortion should never be made illegal. That doesn't mean a woman should have a right to chose to kill a child she created willingly.

This makes no sense, you’re counteracting yourself.

First you state you don’t want abortion outlawed but then state a woman gives up her choice as a consequence of having sex.

Which is it?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It isnt advocating killing people, its not wanting others to be in charge of a life altering decision. Like I said, if cast into that situation I would personally adopt it, but it is not my place to tell another what they can or cannot do with their body. I thinks thats what the poster meant.

That is what I meant.

And it's a cop out because you are too afraid to take a stand against killing children.

What does that even mean?

Are you advocating outlawing abortion?

If so at least have the courage to say so.

 

[Aristotle]

So what about spontaneous abortions? Is it obly permissible when its natural?

 

[LittleNipper]

So what about spontaneous abortions? Is it obly permissible when its natural?

What about miscarriages? God allows people to have abortions and allows miscarriages to occur. However, such is not premeditated by man. I know of no couple who has not been devastated when a miscarriage happens. It seems the natural thing is to want the baby and to care for it. It is a hard person who would hate an innocent baby. And I have problems with individuals who would be so callus and indifferent --- no matter the circumstances.