5th circuit strikes down DOJ over reach on prohibited persons

[M14 Shooter]

When we are discussing a school shooting, or a mass shooting. Republicans rush out to blame mental health and how we need to address that. When we say OK. At least take the guns from someone who is a danger.

The person is the danger, not the guns; if you take the guns from a person he is still a danger.
So, rather than take the guns, the person should be take into custody until such a time a court decides he isn't a danger.

Oh. Guns are bad!!

It is a bullshit argument.

And its 5th amendment, not 2nd.

 

[Billy_Bob]

When we are discussing a school shooting, or a mass shooting. Republicans rush out to blame mental health and how we need to address that. When we say OK. At least take the guns from someone who is a danger. Oh. 2nd Amendment.

It is a bullshit argument.

You want to take the right, do it the right way. Gun grabbing is not the way. Assess the patient of the danger and use a judicial proceeding as required for due process. Absent due process you cannot take the right. Full Stop.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You want to take the right, do it the right way.

The "right way" doesn't matter! Just take the guns!!

 

[Billy_Bob]

The "right way" doesn't matter! Just take the guns!!

And that is what the court tells them they cannot do. Damn these leftists have no concept of the human element.

 

[SavannahMann]

The person is the danger, not the guns; if you take the guns from a person he is still a danger.
So, rather than take the guns, the person should be take into custody until such a time a court decides he isn't a danger.

Oh. Guns are bad!!

It is a bullshit argument.

And its 5th amendment, not 2nd.

Bullshit. A person who loses their license faces severe penalties if they are caught driving again. A person who is dangerous is still dangerous. But you can mitigate that danger, reduce or minimize it.

Picture it this way. In NYC if you are working on a building you have to put up scaffolding and cover over the sidewalks. We have all seen it. This doesn’t do anything if a crane collapses, it would crush the scaffolding. But it does work to minimize the danger. Not eliminate it.

The same is true of everything we do. We require people to wear seatbelts. It is not guaranteed to save your life. But it increases your odds of survival. It will minimize the injuries you would suffer in an accident.

Picture it this way. Someone calls and reports that Bob is talking about killing his enemies. The cops don’t have enough to arrest. They don’t have enough to subject the man to a psych hold. If he admits it, he says it was said as a joke, or blowing off steam.

The cops go on about their business and the next day the nut shoots up the place he worked at. Oh we have to do something about mental illness. Oh the cops were warned. They should have done something.

With a red flag order they could have taken his guns, and had him talk to a shrink. Perhaps he would still drive his car or a truck into the business. Perhaps he would have gotten the help he needed. Perhaps he had guns buried in his basement.

If the guy is interviewed and the shrink says he’s fine. Give him his guns back. When the next report comes in the cops look at the one making the reports. Are they abusing the system like abusing 911?

This is why I say the Republicans are full of shit on this issue. So save your bullshit for someone else. Post about it on Truth Social.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Bullshit. A person who loses their license faces severe penalties if they are caught driving again.

How is this relevant to the issue -- mass shootings, as you suggested - and what I said?

Picture it this way. Someone calls and reports that Bob is talking about killing his enemies. The cops don’t have enough to arrest...

Then they don't have enough to take his guns.

The --person-- is the danger.

This is why I say the Democrats are full of shit on this issue. So save your bullshit for someone else. Post about it on DU or Everytown.

 

[AZrailwhale]

When we are discussing a school shooting, or a mass shooting. Republicans rush out to blame mental health and how we need to address that. When we say OK. At least take the guns from someone who is a danger. Oh. 2nd Amendment.

It is a bullshit argument.

Nope. We simply demand that you PROVE a person is a danger before restricting their rights. But if a person is enough of a danger to him/herself or others he/she should be confined to a mental institution. That solves the problem better than seizing weapons that he/she can easily replace illegally like any other criminal.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Bullshit. A person who loses their license faces severe penalties if they are caught driving again. A person who is dangerous is still dangerous. But you can mitigate that danger, reduce or minimize it.

Picture it this way. In NYC if you are working on a building you have to put up scaffolding and cover over the sidewalks. We have all seen it. This doesn’t do anything if a crane collapses, it would crush the scaffolding. But it does work to minimize the danger. Not eliminate it.

The same is true of everything we do. We require people to wear seatbelts. It is not guaranteed to save your life. But it increases your odds of survival. It will minimize the injuries you would suffer in an accident.

Picture it this way. Someone calls and reports that Bob is talking about killing his enemies. The cops don’t have enough to arrest. They don’t have enough to subject the man to a psych hold. If he admits it, he says it was said as a joke, or blowing off steam.

The cops go on about their business and the next day the nut shoots up the place he worked at. Oh we have to do something about mental illness. Oh the cops were warned. They should have done something.

With a red flag order they could have taken his guns, and had him talk to a shrink. Perhaps he would still drive his car or a truck into the business. Perhaps he would have gotten the help he needed. Perhaps he had guns buried in his basement.

If the guy is interviewed and the shrink says he’s fine. Give him his guns back. When the next report comes in the cops look at the one making the reports. Are they abusing the system like abusing 911?

This is why I say the Republicans are full of shit on this issue. So save your bullshit for someone else. Post about it on Truth Social.

The problem with your idealism, is that once the cops get their hands on people's guns, it's difficult to impossible to get them back. If the individual is dangerous enough to seize his weapons, he is too dangerous to be on the street. He needs to be confined until a proper diagnosis by a TRAINED PSYCHIATERIST can be done. If you just take his guns, he will get more illegally or use another weapon to make his kills. As my Basic Training Drill Sergent said "there are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous men".

 

[M14 Shooter]

The problem with your idealism, is that once the cops get their hands on people's guns, it's difficult to impossible to get them back.

Red flag laws allow the state to take a person's guns until the proves to a court it is safe for him to have them.

This is -exactly the opposite- of what the Constitution requires -- and does not address the actual danger present: the person.

And thus, the left's wavering support of such laws - their wet dream.

 

[Concerned American]

At least take the guns from someone who is a danger.

A domestic dispute does not necessarily make either participant a danger to anyone.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Red flag laws allow the state to take a person's guns until the proves to a court it is safe for him to have them.

This is -exactly the opposite- of what the Constitution requires -- and does not address the actual danger present: the person.

And thus, the left's wavering support of such laws - their wet dream.

Guilty until proven innocent.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Guilty until proven innocent.

Correct.

 

[2aguy]

When we are discussing a school shooting, or a mass shooting. Republicans rush out to blame mental health and how we need to address that. When we say OK. At least take the guns from someone who is a danger. Oh. 2nd Amendment.

It is a bullshit argument.

And when someone thinks their neighbor is weird.....just call the cops and let them lock them up for life.......oh, that's right, that stupid "Constitution," and "Bill of Rights," gets in the way.....you fascists get so disappointed when you can't be fascists...

 

[SavannahMann]

And when someone thinks their neighbor is weird.....just call the cops and let them lock them up for life.......oh, that's right, that stupid "Constitution," and "Bill of Rights," gets in the way.....you fascists get so disappointed when you can't be fascists...

Nobody is saying lock them up for life. They are saying to reduce the chances that this weird neighbor will kill some people. I also said that after the Shrink says the guy is fine, further complaints should be examined as abuse of the 911 system didn’t I?

We will give you a chance to look at the guy. And then we will protect the guy from harassment. That sounds fair.

You have a right to travel State to State. It is in the Constitution. But you come home and find a body in your yard, and the cops tell you not to leave town after they question you. Your Constitutional rights are violated, and you haven’t been convicted of a crime. Who knows how long that will take? A month? Could be.

People lose property to the Government every day without being accused of a crime much less convicted. And unlike the Red Flag laws getting the property back is a major process. Often taking years. This is happening in every single State. Every single day.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Nobody is saying lock them up for life. They are saying to reduce the chances that this weird neighbor will kill some people. I also said that after the Shrink says the guy is fine, further complaints should be examined as abuse of the 911 system didn’t I?

The --person-- is the danger, not the guns.
If they do not have enough to take him into custody, they don't have enough to take his guns.

This is why I say the Democrats are full of shit on this issue. So save your bullshit for someone else. Post about it on DU or Everytown.

 

[SavannahMann]

The --person-- is the danger, not the guns.
If they do not have enough to take him into custody, they don't have enough to take his guns.

This is why I say the Democrats are full of shit on this issue. So save your bullshit for someone else. Post about it on DU or Everytown.

Then stop crying about mental health after the next mass shooting. If they aren’t crazy enough to lock up they are sane enough to slaughter your family.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Then stop crying about mental health after the next mass shooting.

Why?
Isn't it true?

If they aren’t crazy enough to lock up they are sane enough to slaughter your family.

And...?

 

[SavannahMann]

Why?
Isn't it true?

And...?

No it isn’t true. You see if he isn’t crazy enough to lock up. Then there isn’t anything we can do.

Of course, only a Psychiatrist can determine if someone is crazy enough to lock up and we have no way to force someone to see a Shrink. We have no leverage. So we can only tell they are crazy after the fact.

So if you won’t do anything to minimize the damage. Depend on the cops. Like the cop at Parkland who ran away and hid. The cops outside in Texas who stood around waiting for over an hour. Those cops. Depend on them to protect your daughters and family.

Depend on the swift and sure justice for your loss in the courts after the fact.

But don’t complain it isn’t the fun but mental health.

 

[2aguy]

No it isn’t true. You see if he isn’t crazy enough to lock up. Then there isn’t anything we can do.

Of course, only a Psychiatrist can determine if someone is crazy enough to lock up and we have no way to force someone to see a Shrink. We have no leverage. So we can only tell they are crazy after the fact.

So if you won’t do anything to minimize the damage. Depend on the cops. Like the cop at Parkland who ran away and hid. The cops outside in Texas who stood around waiting for over an hour. Those cops. Depend on them to protect your daughters and family.

Depend on the swift and sure justice for your loss in the courts after the fact.

But don’t complain it isn’t the fun but mental health.

Actually, we do have a way to force people r
to see a shrink…….you don’t know what you are talking about.

The families know when they have an issue. The cops know the frequent fliers for mental health issues….they have known almost all of the latest shooters……so do the school officials……

There are legal steps for involuntary commitment already in place…….the families, cops and schools just need to use them.

 

[2aguy]

No it isn’t true. You see if he isn’t crazy enough to lock up. Then there isn’t anything we can do.

Of course, only a Psychiatrist can determine if someone is crazy enough to lock up and we have no way to force someone to see a Shrink. We have no leverage. So we can only tell they are crazy after the fact.

So if you won’t do anything to minimize the damage. Depend on the cops. Like the cop at Parkland who ran away and hid. The cops outside in Texas who stood around waiting for over an hour. Those cops. Depend on them to protect your daughters and family.

Depend on the swift and sure justice for your loss in the courts after the fact.

But don’t complain it isn’t the fun but mental health.

Just an example of one states laws already on the books….

Mental Health Involuntary Commitment | McHenry County, IL