600th anniversary of Agincourt

[williepete]

25 October 1415 (Saint Crispin's Day)

We all know the brilliant field placement, the role of the muddy ground against the French heavy cavalry, Shakespeare's Band of Brother's speech and most of all, the critical role of the English longbow men. Any here care to comment on King Henry's decision to kill his prisoners?

At the time, it was a necessary tactical, morale and leadership decision. IMHO.

 

[Picaro]

Been a while since I've seen this topic. My guess is Henry took so many prisoners he couldn't spare the men to guard them, and with the French still a threat he had no other options; even if the French there had left, he would still be threatened on the way to Calais with such a large group of captives.

the French were stupid to have chosen such a lousy position in the first place.

 

[Katzndogz]

Henry wanted to win and had no patience with feeling the pain of his prisoners.

 

[strollingbones]

didnt this battle give up the 'bird'

 

[williepete]

didnt this battle give up the 'bird'

"Plucking the yew" you might say.

 

[whitehall]

You gotta hand it to king Hank 5. He led his men to hand to hand combat while the French king apparently called in sick.

 

[williepete]

Hank was in a tight spot. He didn't want his knights or men-at-arms thinking of their prisoner's ransoms and slinking off to the rear to protect them. By ordering them to kill their own prisoners, he kept his best men at the front and slaughtered a potential counterforce at his rear if the upcoming French attack gained ground. Protecting a POW you captured because he's going to make you and your family rich is a hard concept for modern ears.

I thought when I posted this thread on the 600th anniversary of the battle, modern folk would cringe at killing prisoners and post against the act. More like few today even know of it.

 

[williepete]

Ole Billy Waggledagger wrote Henry the 5th long after Agincourt and probably knew little of the battle but you have to admit, as an entertainer, he knew how to write a rousing speech.

 

[Picaro]

Great movie. I also like The Lion In Winter a lot as well, even though it's a soap opera and not an action flick. I think the two of them together makes for a fairly realistic take on the politics of that era. Henry V having to hang one of his best friends for looting was an poignant scene, one of several that stand out. Being King wasn't the great job modern types think it was, the 'Royal We' was all important, 'I' and 'me' didn't exist for most Kings, at least it didn't last for long without losing one's head or getting poisoned or something.

 

[martybegan]

25 October 1415 (Saint Crispin's Day)

We all know the brilliant field placement, the role of the muddy ground against the French heavy cavalry, Shakespeare's Band of Brother's speech and most of all, the critical role of the English longbow men. Any here care to comment on King Henry's decision to kill his prisoners?

At the time, it was a necessary tactical, morale and leadership decision. IMHO.

men at arms knew the risk they were taking, as killing of non-noble prisoners was a non unknown of during the time period.

The noble prisoners usually got ransomed off, so it may have been more of a surprise for them, but again, not unknown of during the time period.

One has to be careful judging past events by current moral, legal, or ethical standards.

 

[Picaro]

/QUOTE]
One has to be careful judging past events by current moral, legal, or ethical standards.

Exactly. If history as a social science is to be useful for anything beyond mere gossip it needs to be read from the perspective as if it's a developing series of events, with as much context as is possible to provide, not from present to past.

 

[williepete]

On this 600th anniversary, a lot of welcomed attention is being refocused on the battle. Many lessons to be learned and relearned.

10 reasons why the French lost to Henry V's army
The Battle of Agincourt is often heralded as one of the greatest English military victories. Here are ten reasons why King Henry V's army was able to defeat a French force four times its size

Battle of Agincourt: 10 reasons why the French lost to Henry V's army







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