70% Favor Voter ID Laws.

[Statistikhengst]

My only concern is to eliminate or attempt to eliminate voter fraud. Requiring voter ID will not entirely eliminate voter fraud, however it will have a significant impact. Below is an article that describes issues Florida is having with voter fraud, however I'm sure these issues are not just present in Florida.



Non citizens caught voting in Florida in large numbers

Nobody wants voter fraud. Nobody.

That being said (and I have stated this many times before), voter fraud is so miniscule, it doesn't even come close to tipping the scales.


I did this analysis of voter fraud in Ohio almost exactly one year ago, based entirely on the statistics put out a Republican Secretary of State:

Statistikhengst's ELECTORAL POLITICS - 2013 and beyond: EXACT voter-fraud statistics out of Battleground OHIO

...number of fraud cases / total votes cast in Ohio in the 2012 presidential election = fraud percentage

135 / 5,590,931 = 0.0024%. That is a little over 2 1000th of one percent! Or, to be exact: 24 10,000ths of one percent.

That's it. Not 2/10ths of a percent, not 2/100ths of a percent, but rather 2/1000th of a percent.

The numbers speak for themselves.

Not only that, a number of those cases were cases of elderly people who accidentally voted twice and turned themselves in to make sure that the one vote was removed.

I will say that again: a number of those cases were cases of elderly people who accidentally voted twice and turned themselves in to make sure that the one vote was removed.

The fraud was spread pretty evenly between RED and BLUE counties in the Buckeye state.

We see these horror stories ever so often, but when pressed to actually provide documentation, it's usually crickets.

In Ohio, however, the justice system goes very agressively after voter fraud, and correctly so. Bravo to Ohio for doing this.

But again, that statistic is a drop in a bucket that is so small, you can even hope to see it.

To try to disenfranchise millions and millions and millions of legal voters, people who have a right to vote, for avoiding 0.0024% fraud? Nope, not the way the Right wants to do it.

I realize that there are those who will be inconvenienced by requiring voter ID. However, all citizens should have some form of ID. For those who don't, we should provide a "free" national ID. If 70% of Americans want voter ID, it indicates that the majority of both Republicans and Democrats are in favor. We need to get with the times, voter ID is common practice elsewhere. I believe the U.S. and Canada are two of the only few civilized countries that fall behind on this.

There you go. Bingo.

I agree.

That is EXACTLY what the Right doesn't want. Say "national ID card" and watch them writhe in agony and scream "socialism" until the Messiah arrives.

We are the ONLY nation in the first World to not have a national ID card. It's just crazy.

While some Righties are having horrible wet-dream like nightmares over a national ID and the black helicopters and such, other nations have done it with great sucess for a long time.

Not only that, having a national ID card (which, BTW, should be absolutely identical to the first page of a standard passport, this has advantages that people don't see right away) would take away the argument that the poor cannot afford. In that case, if poor people don't get an ID card, then indeed it is their own fault.

A national ID card eliminates the problem of many senior citizens who were born at a time when in many states, birth certificate records were badly kept, or maybe not kept at all. Also for senior citizens who no longer drive.

I have been saying on many threads that I am absolutely 100% for voter ID, but the standards should be uniform across the Union and there should be a national ID card - btw, this would also eliminate voter fraud that could happen over state borders into another state.

Voter ID: YES.
Voter suppression: NO.

 

[rightwinger]

Nobody wants voter fraud. Nobody.

That being said (and I have stated this many times before), voter fraud is so miniscule, it doesn't even come close to tipping the scales.


I did this analysis of voter fraud in Ohio almost exactly one year ago, based entirely on the statistics put out a Republican Secretary of State:

Statistikhengst's ELECTORAL POLITICS - 2013 and beyond: EXACT voter-fraud statistics out of Battleground OHIO




The numbers speak for themselves.

Not only that, a number of those cases were cases of elderly people who accidentally voted twice and turned themselves in to make sure that the one vote was removed.

I will say that again: a number of those cases were cases of elderly people who accidentally voted twice and turned themselves in to make sure that the one vote was removed.

The fraud was spread pretty evenly between RED and BLUE counties in the Buckeye state.

We see these horror stories ever so often, but when pressed to actually provide documentation, it's usually crickets.

In Ohio, however, the justice system goes very agressively after voter fraud, and correctly so. Bravo to Ohio for doing this.

But again, that statistic is a drop in a bucket that is so small, you can even hope to see it.

To try to disenfranchise millions and millions and millions of legal voters, people who have a right to vote, for avoiding 0.0024% fraud? Nope, not the way the Right wants to do it.

I realize that there are those who will be inconvenienced by requiring voter ID. However, all citizens should have some form of ID. For those who don't, we should provide a "free" national ID. If 70% of Americans want voter ID, it indicates that the majority of both Republicans and Democrats are in favor. We need to get with the times, voter ID is common practice elsewhere. I believe the U.S. and Canada are two of the only few civilized countries that fall behind on this.

There you go. Bingo.

I agree.

That is EXACTLY what the Right doesn't want. Say "national ID card" and watch them writhe in agony and scream "socialism" until the Messiah arrives.

We are the ONLY nation in the first World to not have a national ID card. It's just crazy.

While some Righties are having horrible wet-dream like nightmares over a national ID and the black helicopters and such, other nations have done it with great sucess for a long time.

Not only that, having a national ID card (which, BTW, should be absolutely identical to the first page of a standard passport, this has advantages that people don't see right away) would take away the argument that the poor cannot afford. In that case, if poor people don't get an ID card, then indeed it is their own fault.

A national ID card eliminates the problem of many senior citizens who were born at a time when in many states, birth certificate records were badly kept, or maybe not kept at all. Also for senior citizens who no longer drive.

I have been saying on many threads that I am absolutely 100% for voter ID, but the standards should be uniform across the Union and there should be a national ID card - btw, this would also eliminate voter fraud that could happen over state borders into another state.

Voter ID: YES.
Voter suppression: NO.

And that is the point. Conservatives want to be able to pick and choose who gets an ID and how you get it. The more obstacles the better.
Can't drive ten miles outside of town to the ID center, that is your problem
Can't provide all the backup documentation, that is your problem
Can't come up with money to pay for ID, that is your problem
Can't vote? That is what they want

 

[Zmrzlina]

no kidding, they get more pathetic every day on this topic
I've had an ID for 45 years, both my son's got one at 14

Good for you! Unfortunately not everyone shares the same experience as you.

 

[bedowin62]

I realize that there are those who will be inconvenienced by requiring voter ID. However, all citizens should have some form of ID. For those who don't, we should provide a "free" national ID. If 70% of Americans want voter ID, it indicates that the majority of both Republicans and Democrats are in favor. We need to get with the times, voter ID is common practice elsewhere. I believe the U.S. and Canada are two of the only few civilized countries that fall behind on this.

There you go. Bingo.

I agree.

That is EXACTLY what the Right doesn't want. Say "national ID card" and watch them writhe in agony and scream "socialism" until the Messiah arrives.

We are the ONLY nation in the first World to not have a national ID card. It's just crazy.

While some Righties are having horrible wet-dream like nightmares over a national ID and the black helicopters and such, other nations have done it with great sucess for a long time.

Not only that, having a national ID card (which, BTW, should be absolutely identical to the first page of a standard passport, this has advantages that people don't see right away) would take away the argument that the poor cannot afford. In that case, if poor people don't get an ID card, then indeed it is their own fault.

A national ID card eliminates the problem of many senior citizens who were born at a time when in many states, birth certificate records were badly kept, or maybe not kept at all. Also for senior citizens who no longer drive.

I have been saying on many threads that I am absolutely 100% for voter ID, but the standards should be uniform across the Union and there should be a national ID card - btw, this would also eliminate voter fraud that could happen over state borders into another state.

Voter ID: YES.
Voter suppression: NO.

And that is the point. Conservatives want to be able to pick and choose who gets an ID and how you get it. The more obstacles the better.
Can't drive ten miles outside of town to the ID center, that is your problem
Can't provide all the backup documentation, that is your problem
Can't come up with money to pay for ID, that is your problem
Can't vote? That is what they want

yawn


left-wing nutjobs have a lot of excuses or not wanting elections as fair as they can be

 

[bedowin62]

you would oppose voter ID laws if Republicans offered to pay for them out of their own pockets and drive everybody to the polls


who are you trying to fool leftard?

besides yourself that is?

 

[Zmrzlina]

you would oppose voter ID laws if Republicans offered to pay for them out of their own pockets and drive everybody to the polls


who are you trying to fool leftard?

besides yourself that is?

I wouldn't oppose voter ID laws if Republicans could prove their case that voter fraud is so rampant that it justifies modifying a constitutionally afforded right. To date, they haven't.

 

[Bush92]

Voter ID eliminates voter fraud. no accountability with inner city areas. They have a judge keep the polls open until Dem's figure out how many votes they need to put them over the top. see US Senate race in Missouri 2000. Ashcroft was screwed over because polls were kept open so late in Democratic precincts. To make matters even more absurd the Democrat Carnahan had died two weeks previous.

 

[rightwinger]

There you go. Bingo.

I agree.

That is EXACTLY what the Right doesn't want. Say "national ID card" and watch them writhe in agony and scream "socialism" until the Messiah arrives.

We are the ONLY nation in the first World to not have a national ID card. It's just crazy.

While some Righties are having horrible wet-dream like nightmares over a national ID and the black helicopters and such, other nations have done it with great sucess for a long time.

Not only that, having a national ID card (which, BTW, should be absolutely identical to the first page of a standard passport, this has advantages that people don't see right away) would take away the argument that the poor cannot afford. In that case, if poor people don't get an ID card, then indeed it is their own fault.

A national ID card eliminates the problem of many senior citizens who were born at a time when in many states, birth certificate records were badly kept, or maybe not kept at all. Also for senior citizens who no longer drive.

I have been saying on many threads that I am absolutely 100% for voter ID, but the standards should be uniform across the Union and there should be a national ID card - btw, this would also eliminate voter fraud that could happen over state borders into another state.

Voter ID: YES.
Voter suppression: NO.

And that is the point. Conservatives want to be able to pick and choose who gets an ID and how you get it. The more obstacles the better.
Can't drive ten miles outside of town to the ID center, that is your problem
Can't provide all the backup documentation, that is your problem
Can't come up with money to pay for ID, that is your problem
Can't vote? That is what they want

yawn


left-wing nutjobs have a lot of excuses or not wanting elections as fair as they can be

Agree

Turning away eligible voters at the polls is not fair and is not American

 

[rightwinger]

Voter ID eliminates voter fraud. no accountability with inner city areas. They have a judge keep the polls open until Dem's figure out how many votes they need to put them over the top. see US Senate race in Missouri 2000. Ashcroft was screwed over because polls were kept open so late in Democratic precincts. To make matters even more absurd the Democrat Carnahan had died two weeks previous.

The only time I have seen judges keep polls open beyond the agreed to closing time is when the lines are so long that people are being prevented from voting

You know, those LONG lines that Republicans love so well

 

[Statistikhengst]

Voter ID eliminates voter fraud. no accountability with inner city areas. They have a judge keep the polls open until Dem's figure out how many votes they need to put them over the top. see US Senate race in Missouri 2000. Ashcroft was screwed over because polls were kept open so late in Democratic precincts. To make matters even more absurd the Democrat Carnahan had died two weeks previous.

The only time I have seen judges keep polls open beyond the agreed to closing time is when the lines are so long that people are being prevented from voting

You know, those LONG lines that Republicans love so well

Indeed, in the hope that, dispirited, voters will simply give up and go home.

They are usually long lines in precincts in Republican controlled states where the Republicans know damn well that even under the worst of circumstances, so-and-so many thousands of voters will turn up and, say, 11 voting machines would do the trick. So, the Republicans provide only 2 machines.


Totally unamerican. Totally unpatriotic.

 

[MeBelle]

What a bunch of crap in this thread.

 

[Zmrzlina]

What a bunch of crap in this thread.

What a lovely contribution.

 

[longknife]

This is also a discussion on another forum I visit. The following was posted there and, without identifying the forum, I wanted to share it as it makes so much sense and in eloquently presented:

zbr6

Let me state this in simple terms, that even an idiotic conservative can understand.


REQUIRING SOMEONE TO SPEND MONEY IN ORDER TO OBTAIN THE PROPER ID IN ORDER TO VOTE, IS, AT HEART, A POLL TAX.


VOTING SHOULD NOT COST YOU A SINGLE PENNY. IT IS YOUR RIGHT AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN.

Did you get that?

Oh, ok you want to play the liberal logic game?


I'm down lets begin.


-On election day I had to wake up in the morning to go vote, I needed an alarm clock to do so and that alarm clock cost me about $35 so that's a poll tax.


-On election day I had to fuel my body in order to function, I needed food to process into energy and that food cost me about $15 so that's a poll tax.


-On election day I had to be told which tyrant to vote for, I needed a 72 inch 4k television to watch Rachael Madcow tell me who isn't a racist and that TV cost me about $5600 so that's a poll tax.


-On election day I had to go out in public to vote, I needed to wear clothes because you cant go out in public naked and those close cost me about $200 so that's a poll tax.


-On election day I had to get to the polling place, I needed transportation to do so and my car cost me about $52,000 so that's a poll tax.


-On election day I had to propagate internal combustion in order to travel, I needed to ignite hundred million year old decomposed organisms and they cost me $65 at the pump so that's a poll tax.


-On election day I had to travel on in order to get to reach my destination, I needed to make use of toll roads en route and they cost me about $7.50 so that's a poll tax.


-On election day I had to be able to see the ballot, I needed glasses in order to see the letter (D) and in my lifetime I'll have to spend about $11,000 on vision care so that's a poll tax.


All of those things, and many more, were necessary in order for me to vote so they are all poll taxes but its ok because I'm confident that liberals are on the job...


VOTING IS YOUR RIGHT AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN


IT DOES NOT COST YOU MONEY


VOTING REQUIRES DOCUMENTS PROVING YOU ARE IN FACT A CITIZEN


THOSE DOCUMENTS DO NOT COST YOU MONEY


Your liberal overlords are trying to convince you that there are hundreds of millions of people so poor they cant afford something that the government will give you for (*)(*)(*)(*)ing free!


Not to mention the hilarious irony that if you're that (*)(*)(*)(*)ing poor you're undoubtedly already on multiple forms of welfare which ...wait for it ...ALL REQUIRE IDENTIFICATION DOCUMENTS TO ENROLL!


Did you get that?


No, no you didn't.


Of course you didn't.


Liberals.

 

[candycorn]

-On election day I had to wake up in the morning to go vote, I needed an alarm clock to do so and that alarm clock cost me about $35 so that's a poll tax.

Billions wake up every day with an alarm clock.

-On election day I had to fuel my body in order to function, I needed food to process into energy and that food cost me about $15 so that's a poll tax.

You can grow your own food.

-On election day I had to be told which tyrant to vote for, I needed a 72 inch 4k television to watch Rachael Madcow tell me who isn't a racist and that TV cost me about $5600 so that's a poll tax.

You don't need to be told how to vote; you should have been raised better as to not call people names.
That is a hate tax you pay daily.

-On election day I had to get to the polling place, I needed transportation to do so and my car cost me about $52,000 so that's a poll tax.

Take the bus.

-On election day I had to propagate internal combustion in order to travel, I needed to ignite hundred million year old decomposed organisms and they cost me $65 at the pump so that's a poll tax.

Take the bus.

-On election day I had to travel on in order to get to reach my destination, I needed to make use of toll roads en route and they cost me about $7.50 so that's a poll tax.

Take the bus.

-On election day I had to be able to see the ballot, I needed glasses in order to see the letter (D) and in my lifetime I'll have to spend about $11,000 on vision care so that's a poll tax.

A poll worker will read it to you

All of those things, and many more, were necessary in order for me to vote so they are all poll taxes but its ok because I'm confident that liberals are on the job...

No, all of those things are stuff you made up in a lame attempt to make a point. You utterly failed but I'm sure you're used to failure.

VOTING IS YOUR RIGHT AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN

Finally, some truth.

IT DOES NOT COST YOU MONEY

It shouldn't cost you money. Fixed that for you.

VOTING REQUIRES DOCUMENTS PROVING YOU ARE IN FACT A CITIZEN

Hardly. It's more a case of proving you're voting in the right place.

THOSE DOCUMENTS DO NOT COST YOU MONEY

In many cases they do.

Your liberal overlords are trying to convince you that there are hundreds of millions of people so poor they cant afford something that the government will give you for (*)(*)(*)(*)ing free!

These supposed "liberal overlords" are right.

That being said; your spirit is right. Voting should require you prove whom you say you are. It didn't require the idiotic comparisons and examples you tried to launch above.

Simply mandate that all voter registration cards moving forward are picture ID cards. This will be a free card that will allow you to carry one form of ID to the polling place with you instead of the card and another form of ID that often costs money.

 

[longknife]

candydorn - you really took all that effort for such an inane response?

 

[Zmrzlina]

The burden of proof is on the conservatives to provide the evidence that voter fraud is such a systemic issue that requires an overhaul of voting procedures that would be worth the risk of possibly disenfranchising eligible voters.

 

[candycorn]

candydorn - you really took all that effort for such an inane response?

It was more effort to read the retarded post. Really, were you tripping on meth when you wrote that?

 

[candycorn]

The burden of proof is on the conservatives to provide the evidence that voter fraud is such a systemic issue that requires an overhaul of voting procedures that would be worth the risk of possibly disenfranchising eligible voters.

Anyone who tells you that Obama or Bush or whomever was elected due to voter fraud or voter suppression is full of shit. Anyone who tells you that any US House or US Senate member was elected due to voter fraud or voter suppression is full of shit. I'd even extend that to any gubenatorial, statewide election or legislative post in the States.

However, when you have a city council or county commissioner, school board or at-large seat that is open, voter fraud can make a difference. And it doesn't have to be fraud...voter error can make a difference. Quick...do you know the address of your polling place? I would bet that maybe you do but does your neighbor? Does your kid's teacher? Does your hair stylist or masseuse? You go where you went last time and maybe it's not changed...maybe it is. You are given a ballot and boom, you vote for a congressman that used to represent you but has since been redistricted. In Phoenix, we have about 10 large communities around our city. Glendale or Scottsdale or Mesa would benefit greatly from Phoenix raising it's sales tax rate. When it comes up for vote in Phoenix, what would stop a bunch of citizens from Glendale, Scottsdale, or Mesa from voting to raise the rate if you're not checking voter IDs?

As for the "burden of proof" post above....what is the upside of having elections that aren't as sterile as possible?

 

[william the wie]

Just because the correlation of organized crime profit centers, Chicago, New York, SF, Boston and New Orleans prior to Katrina, with Democratic strongholds approaches 1 does not imply that all Ds everywhere are criminals.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

“As for the "burden of proof" post above....what is the upside of having elections that aren't as sterile as possible?”

The burden of proof rests solely with the state to document that 'fraud' by identity exists to the extent that it warrants a restriction on the fundamental right to vote. Absent objective, documented evidence in support, the state cannot justify placing an undue burden on the fundamental right to vote, such as voter ID laws. That the state 'thinks' or 'believes' or 'feels' that voters 'might' attempt to commit 'fraud' by identity, or that the state seeks to 'make sterile' the election process does not justify placing an undue burden on the right to vote.

The issue therefore is not voter ID laws per se, but the failure on the part of advocates of voter ID laws to provide compelling, documented evidence that 'fraud' by identity exists to the point where the outcome of any election is changed. If advocates of voter ID laws can provide that evidence, then the courts would take no issue with the laws. But the state may not presume that all voters are guilty of 'fraud' by identity and compel voters to 'prove' that they are not guilty absent due process, nor is the state at liberty to seek to 'make sterile' the voting process at the expense of citizens' civil rights.