79 year old beaten to death during robbery...good news...no guns were involved...

[2aguy]

Yes....the good news is the man was not shot to death....he was just beaten to death by these three, young, aggressively violent criminals.........

I know...I know....you are all relieved that he was not shot.....he was only beaten to death.......good news all the way around...right? Well...except for that getting beaten to death part...that is kind of a downer...but then again...he wasn't shot....right?

79-year-old man dies after beating at Aurora club

A 79-year-old man died after he was beaten during a robbery early Sunday at a club in west suburban Aurora.

About 5:30 a.m., three masked men broke into the Latin American Club in the 1300 block of Dearborn Avenue and demanded money from two men who were cleaning the building, according to a statement from Aurora police.

The suspects attacked the men simultaneously and beat them until they were unconscious, police said.


Soooooo....this is what a robbery looks like with no guns.....

Hmmmm...I wonder what would have happened if one of the victims had had a gun.....

So he wasnt shot and killed? If he had a gun they would have probably taken it and shot him with it.

____________________

There is no Sophistry to gross for a rabid partisan.

I'm betting the guy is glad he lived instead of being shot with his own gun.

And I am sure the dead guy wishes he had that gun to take that chance……..

 

[2aguy]

Yes....the good news is the man was not shot to death....he was just beaten to death by these three, young, aggressively violent criminals.........

I know...I know....you are all relieved that he was not shot.....he was only beaten to death.......good news all the way around...right? Well...except for that getting beaten to death part...that is kind of a downer...but then again...he wasn't shot....right?

79-year-old man dies after beating at Aurora club

A 79-year-old man died after he was beaten during a robbery early Sunday at a club in west suburban Aurora.

About 5:30 a.m., three masked men broke into the Latin American Club in the 1300 block of Dearborn Avenue and demanded money from two men who were cleaning the building, according to a statement from Aurora police.

The suspects attacked the men simultaneously and beat them until they were unconscious, police said.


Soooooo....this is what a robbery looks like with no guns.....

Hmmmm...I wonder what would have happened if one of the victims had had a gun.....

So he wasnt shot and killed? If he had a gun they would have probably taken it and shot him with it.

Nope.......I have read too many stories of senior citizens sending assholes like that running scared because the seniors drew weapons and drove them off...

The myth of the easily disarmed gun owner is exactly that..a myth.

Actually its not a myth. I've witnessed it up close and personal. If you dont have the heart to pull the trigger there is a great chance they will take it from you and shoot your ass off. The other problem is you may fuck up royally and shoot an innocent victim like this dumb ass did and he wasnt even old.


‘Good guy with a gun’ tries to stop carjacking, shoots victim in the head instead and bails

Sorry….actual research of 5,000 news stories covering actual defensive uses of guns show that the majority of people armed with guns who are disarmed……are the criminals……not the victims...

 

[Asclepias]

Yes....the good news is the man was not shot to death....he was just beaten to death by these three, young, aggressively violent criminals.........

I know...I know....you are all relieved that he was not shot.....he was only beaten to death.......good news all the way around...right? Well...except for that getting beaten to death part...that is kind of a downer...but then again...he wasn't shot....right?

79-year-old man dies after beating at Aurora club

A 79-year-old man died after he was beaten during a robbery early Sunday at a club in west suburban Aurora.

About 5:30 a.m., three masked men broke into the Latin American Club in the 1300 block of Dearborn Avenue and demanded money from two men who were cleaning the building, according to a statement from Aurora police.

The suspects attacked the men simultaneously and beat them until they were unconscious, police said.


Soooooo....this is what a robbery looks like with no guns.....

Hmmmm...I wonder what would have happened if one of the victims had had a gun.....

So he wasnt shot and killed? If he had a gun they would have probably taken it and shot him with it.

Nope.......I have read too many stories of senior citizens sending assholes like that running scared because the seniors drew weapons and drove them off...

The myth of the easily disarmed gun owner is exactly that..a myth.

Actually its not a myth. I've witnessed it up close and personal. If you dont have the heart to pull the trigger there is a great chance they will take it from you and shoot your ass off. The other problem is you may fuck up royally and shoot an innocent victim like this dumb ass did and he wasnt even old.


‘Good guy with a gun’ tries to stop carjacking, shoots victim in the head instead and bails

Sorry….actual research of 5,000 news stories covering actual defensive uses of guns show that the majority of people armed with guns who are disarmed……are the criminals……not the victims...

Sorry I dont believe you. Try harder to convince me like with maybe a link to this research. No right wing funded studies. Real research.

 

[2aguy]

Yes....the good news is the man was not shot to death....he was just beaten to death by these three, young, aggressively violent criminals.........

I know...I know....you are all relieved that he was not shot.....he was only beaten to death.......good news all the way around...right? Well...except for that getting beaten to death part...that is kind of a downer...but then again...he wasn't shot....right?

79-year-old man dies after beating at Aurora club

A 79-year-old man died after he was beaten during a robbery early Sunday at a club in west suburban Aurora.

About 5:30 a.m., three masked men broke into the Latin American Club in the 1300 block of Dearborn Avenue and demanded money from two men who were cleaning the building, according to a statement from Aurora police.

The suspects attacked the men simultaneously and beat them until they were unconscious, police said.


Soooooo....this is what a robbery looks like with no guns.....

Hmmmm...I wonder what would have happened if one of the victims had had a gun.....

So he wasnt shot and killed? If he had a gun they would have probably taken it and shot him with it.

Nope.......I have read too many stories of senior citizens sending assholes like that running scared because the seniors drew weapons and drove them off...

The myth of the easily disarmed gun owner is exactly that..a myth.

Actually its not a myth. I've witnessed it up close and personal. If you dont have the heart to pull the trigger there is a great chance they will take it from you and shoot your ass off. The other problem is you may fuck up royally and shoot an innocent victim like this dumb ass did and he wasnt even old.


‘Good guy with a gun’ tries to stop carjacking, shoots victim in the head instead and bails

Sorry….actual research of 5,000 news stories covering actual defensive uses of guns show that the majority of people armed with guns who are disarmed……are the criminals……not the victims...

Sorry I dont believe you. Try harder to convince me like with maybe a link to this research. No right wing funded studies. Real research.

Sorry….this is actual research of actual news stories……..they also define the limitations of the work but it gives valuable in sites into defensive gun uses…

From the book, or White Paper from CATO...."Tough Targets"


---------------------------
They then go on to explain how this can distort numbers by siting an article from Time magazine that looked at deaths in one day and then went back to check on the cases a year later....the 14 non law enforcement justifiable homicides went up to 28 because a year later the 14 other gun crimes were found to be justifiable homicides....and at least 43 other murder cases had not gone to trial....

"clearly, the FBI justifiable homicide data is not particularly meaningful for understanding defensive gun uses that result in death-and is useless for understanding the vastly larger number of defensive gun uses that do not result in death."

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf

The Data Set

Since the survey data has severe limita- tions with respect to defensive gun uses, collecting accounts of self-defense as they are reported in news outlets may be a better method of assessing the frequency and na- ture of self-defense with firearms. The data set supporting this paper is derived from a collection of news stories published between October 2003 and November 2011.12

There is a selection bias problem with the method of gathering news stories. Many defensive gun uses never make the news. Sometimes that is because the person us- ing a gun in self-defense saw no need to call the police—he or she scared off the bad guy. In some cases, the victim might not want to explain to the police that he has a gun, perhaps because he is a felon, or perhaps because he lives in a jurisdiction with very restrictive gun control laws. Sometimes the police do get called, but the officers do not find the circumstances sufficiently impor- tant to issue a press release. After all, “Man Scares away Burglar, No Shots Fired” is not particularly newsworthy, unless you live in a very small town.

In spite of the selection bias problem, there is one enormous advantage to this model of gathering data: it provides a rich set of information about motives, circum- stances, victims, and criminals. It also pro- vides a sufficiently large database (almost 5,000 incidents), randomly selected, so that some conclusions about the nature of armed self-defense in America can be drawn. Best of all, whatever the deficiencies of news reporting, the model is not completely de- pendent on the honesty or accuracy of the respondent—unlike some of the questions raised with respect to defensive gun use sur- veys.

As to wether they included criminals using guns defensively........

In a few instances, we have includ- ed cases where the initial news reports were clearly of legitimate defensive gun uses, but where law enforcement or a prosecutor chose to charge a gun owner.
Those are relatively rare; when there was any doubt as to whether a use of a gun might be criminal, it was not included in our list of news accounts until such time as there was confirmation that the defensive gun use was deemed lawful. In only a handful of cases did later investiga- tion turn an initial defensive gun use into a criminalcharge.Themostcommonscenario is that law enforcement officers chose not to prosecute based on the evidence at the scene and testimony of witnesses, but referred the case to a grand jury for review.

This enormous disparity—227 criminals

disarmed by their victims compared to 11

victims disarmed by criminals—is not necessarily

an accurate measure of how often this

happens. Because the data set gathers defensive

gun use stories, many incidents where

a criminal disarmed and killed a victim will

likely not be reported. Still, since the research

methods of the authors are unbiased (i.e.,

stacked in favor of finding one type of story

versus the other), the numbers suggest that

the great fear of gun control advocates—

criminals disarming victims—is exaggerated

 

[Asclepias]

So he wasnt shot and killed? If he had a gun they would have probably taken it and shot him with it.

Nope.......I have read too many stories of senior citizens sending assholes like that running scared because the seniors drew weapons and drove them off...

The myth of the easily disarmed gun owner is exactly that..a myth.

Actually its not a myth. I've witnessed it up close and personal. If you dont have the heart to pull the trigger there is a great chance they will take it from you and shoot your ass off. The other problem is you may fuck up royally and shoot an innocent victim like this dumb ass did and he wasnt even old.


‘Good guy with a gun’ tries to stop carjacking, shoots victim in the head instead and bails

Sorry….actual research of 5,000 news stories covering actual defensive uses of guns show that the majority of people armed with guns who are disarmed……are the criminals……not the victims...

Sorry I dont believe you. Try harder to convince me like with maybe a link to this research. No right wing funded studies. Real research.

Sorry….this is actual research of actual news stories……..they also define the limitations of the work but it gives valuable in sites into defensive gun uses…

From the book, or White Paper from CATO...."Tough Targets"


---------------------------
They then go on to explain how this can distort numbers by siting an article from Time magazine that looked at deaths in one day and then went back to check on the cases a year later....the 14 non law enforcement justifiable homicides went up to 28 because a year later the 14 other gun crimes were found to be justifiable homicides....and at least 43 other murder cases had not gone to trial....

"clearly, the FBI justifiable homicide data is not particularly meaningful for understanding defensive gun uses that result in death-and is useless for understanding the vastly larger number of defensive gun uses that do not result in death."

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf

The Data Set

Since the survey data has severe limita- tions with respect to defensive gun uses, collecting accounts of self-defense as they are reported in news outlets may be a better method of assessing the frequency and na- ture of self-defense with firearms. The data set supporting this paper is derived from a collection of news stories published between October 2003 and November 2011.12

There is a selection bias problem with the method of gathering news stories. Many defensive gun uses never make the news. Sometimes that is because the person us- ing a gun in self-defense saw no need to call the police—he or she scared off the bad guy. In some cases, the victim might not want to explain to the police that he has a gun, perhaps because he is a felon, or perhaps because he lives in a jurisdiction with very restrictive gun control laws. Sometimes the police do get called, but the officers do not find the circumstances sufficiently impor- tant to issue a press release. After all, “Man Scares away Burglar, No Shots Fired” is not particularly newsworthy, unless you live in a very small town.

In spite of the selection bias problem, there is one enormous advantage to this model of gathering data: it provides a rich set of information about motives, circum- stances, victims, and criminals. It also pro- vides a sufficiently large database (almost 5,000 incidents), randomly selected, so that some conclusions about the nature of armed self-defense in America can be drawn. Best of all, whatever the deficiencies of news reporting, the model is not completely de- pendent on the honesty or accuracy of the respondent—unlike some of the questions raised with respect to defensive gun use sur- veys.

As to wether they included criminals using guns defensively........

In a few instances, we have includ- ed cases where the initial news reports were clearly of legitimate defensive gun uses, but where law enforcement or a prosecutor chose to charge a gun owner.
Those are relatively rare; when there was any doubt as to whether a use of a gun might be criminal, it was not included in our list of news accounts until such time as there was confirmation that the defensive gun use was deemed lawful. In only a handful of cases did later investiga- tion turn an initial defensive gun use into a criminalcharge.Themostcommonscenario is that law enforcement officers chose not to prosecute based on the evidence at the scene and testimony of witnesses, but referred the case to a grand jury for review.

Dont deflect by posting longwind BS. Provide a link to support your claim. Nothing in your post says the criminal was the one that got the gun taken from them the majority of the time.

 

[2aguy]

Nope.......I have read too many stories of senior citizens sending assholes like that running scared because the seniors drew weapons and drove them off...

The myth of the easily disarmed gun owner is exactly that..a myth.

Actually its not a myth. I've witnessed it up close and personal. If you dont have the heart to pull the trigger there is a great chance they will take it from you and shoot your ass off. The other problem is you may fuck up royally and shoot an innocent victim like this dumb ass did and he wasnt even old.


‘Good guy with a gun’ tries to stop carjacking, shoots victim in the head instead and bails

Sorry….actual research of 5,000 news stories covering actual defensive uses of guns show that the majority of people armed with guns who are disarmed……are the criminals……not the victims...

Sorry I dont believe you. Try harder to convince me like with maybe a link to this research. No right wing funded studies. Real research.

Sorry….this is actual research of actual news stories……..they also define the limitations of the work but it gives valuable in sites into defensive gun uses…

From the book, or White Paper from CATO...."Tough Targets"


---------------------------
They then go on to explain how this can distort numbers by siting an article from Time magazine that looked at deaths in one day and then went back to check on the cases a year later....the 14 non law enforcement justifiable homicides went up to 28 because a year later the 14 other gun crimes were found to be justifiable homicides....and at least 43 other murder cases had not gone to trial....

"clearly, the FBI justifiable homicide data is not particularly meaningful for understanding defensive gun uses that result in death-and is useless for understanding the vastly larger number of defensive gun uses that do not result in death."

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf

The Data Set

Since the survey data has severe limita- tions with respect to defensive gun uses, collecting accounts of self-defense as they are reported in news outlets may be a better method of assessing the frequency and na- ture of self-defense with firearms. The data set supporting this paper is derived from a collection of news stories published between October 2003 and November 2011.12

There is a selection bias problem with the method of gathering news stories. Many defensive gun uses never make the news. Sometimes that is because the person us- ing a gun in self-defense saw no need to call the police—he or she scared off the bad guy. In some cases, the victim might not want to explain to the police that he has a gun, perhaps because he is a felon, or perhaps because he lives in a jurisdiction with very restrictive gun control laws. Sometimes the police do get called, but the officers do not find the circumstances sufficiently impor- tant to issue a press release. After all, “Man Scares away Burglar, No Shots Fired” is not particularly newsworthy, unless you live in a very small town.

In spite of the selection bias problem, there is one enormous advantage to this model of gathering data: it provides a rich set of information about motives, circum- stances, victims, and criminals. It also pro- vides a sufficiently large database (almost 5,000 incidents), randomly selected, so that some conclusions about the nature of armed self-defense in America can be drawn. Best of all, whatever the deficiencies of news reporting, the model is not completely de- pendent on the honesty or accuracy of the respondent—unlike some of the questions raised with respect to defensive gun use sur- veys.

As to wether they included criminals using guns defensively........

In a few instances, we have includ- ed cases where the initial news reports were clearly of legitimate defensive gun uses, but where law enforcement or a prosecutor chose to charge a gun owner.
Those are relatively rare; when there was any doubt as to whether a use of a gun might be criminal, it was not included in our list of news accounts until such time as there was confirmation that the defensive gun use was deemed lawful. In only a handful of cases did later investiga- tion turn an initial defensive gun use into a criminalcharge.Themostcommonscenario is that law enforcement officers chose not to prosecute based on the evidence at the scene and testimony of witnesses, but referred the case to a grand jury for review.

Dont deflect by posting longwind BS. Provide a link to support your claim. Nothing in your post says the criminal was the one that got the gun taken from them the majority of the time.

Wait till I finish posting it twit……I was giving the extent of the research into the stories of defensive gun use….this is the part where they talk about more criminals being disarmed by victims….twit.

This enormous disparity—227 criminals disarmed by their victims compared to 11 victims disarmed by criminals—is not necessarily an accurate measure of how often this
happens. Because the data set gathers defensive gun use stories, many incidents where a criminal disarmed and killed a victim will likely not be reported. Still, since the research methods of the authors are unbiased (i.e.,stacked in favor of finding one type of storyversus the other), the numbers suggest that the great fear of gun control advocates—criminals disarming victims—is exaggerated

 

[2aguy]

Yes....the good news is the man was not shot to death....he was just beaten to death by these three, young, aggressively violent criminals.........

I know...I know....you are all relieved that he was not shot.....he was only beaten to death.......good news all the way around...right? Well...except for that getting beaten to death part...that is kind of a downer...but then again...he wasn't shot....right?

79-year-old man dies after beating at Aurora club

A 79-year-old man died after he was beaten during a robbery early Sunday at a club in west suburban Aurora.

About 5:30 a.m., three masked men broke into the Latin American Club in the 1300 block of Dearborn Avenue and demanded money from two men who were cleaning the building, according to a statement from Aurora police.

The suspects attacked the men simultaneously and beat them until they were unconscious, police said.


Soooooo....this is what a robbery looks like with no guns.....

Hmmmm...I wonder what would have happened if one of the victims had had a gun.....

So he wasnt shot and killed? If he had a gun they would have probably taken it and shot him with it.

____________________

There is no Sophistry to gross for a rabid partisan.

I'm betting the guy is glad he lived instead of being shot with his own gun.

Yeah….and here you have a common occurrence…a criminal disarmed and the victim using his gun…..on video….

 

[2aguy]

Yes....the good news is the man was not shot to death....he was just beaten to death by these three, young, aggressively violent criminals.........

I know...I know....you are all relieved that he was not shot.....he was only beaten to death.......good news all the way around...right? Well...except for that getting beaten to death part...that is kind of a downer...but then again...he wasn't shot....right?

79-year-old man dies after beating at Aurora club

A 79-year-old man died after he was beaten during a robbery early Sunday at a club in west suburban Aurora.

About 5:30 a.m., three masked men broke into the Latin American Club in the 1300 block of Dearborn Avenue and demanded money from two men who were cleaning the building, according to a statement from Aurora police.

The suspects attacked the men simultaneously and beat them until they were unconscious, police said.


Soooooo....this is what a robbery looks like with no guns.....

Hmmmm...I wonder what would have happened if one of the victims had had a gun.....

So he wasnt shot and killed? If he had a gun they would have probably taken it and shot him with it.

Yeah…tell it to this victim….

 

[2aguy]

Yes....the good news is the man was not shot to death....he was just beaten to death by these three, young, aggressively violent criminals.........

I know...I know....you are all relieved that he was not shot.....he was only beaten to death.......good news all the way around...right? Well...except for that getting beaten to death part...that is kind of a downer...but then again...he wasn't shot....right?

79-year-old man dies after beating at Aurora club

A 79-year-old man died after he was beaten during a robbery early Sunday at a club in west suburban Aurora.

About 5:30 a.m., three masked men broke into the Latin American Club in the 1300 block of Dearborn Avenue and demanded money from two men who were cleaning the building, according to a statement from Aurora police.

The suspects attacked the men simultaneously and beat them until they were unconscious, police said.


Soooooo....this is what a robbery looks like with no guns.....

Hmmmm...I wonder what would have happened if one of the victims had had a gun.....

So he wasnt shot and killed? If he had a gun they would have probably taken it and shot him with it.

Hmmm…or this one….

Man disarms robber, gives gun to cops - Latest News

ST JAMES, Jamaica – One Browning 9mm pistol and eight rounds of ammunition were handed over to the police after a failed robbery attempt in Marchmont, Cambridge in St James on Tuesday.

The Cambridge Police report that about 10:30 pm, a resident was washing his car on the outside of his house when he was approached by armed men who demanded money.

When the demands were not met, a tussle ensued and the resident managed to disarm one of his attackers, who then fled the scene.

The police were summoned and the weapon handed over to them.

 

[Asclepias]

Actually its not a myth. I've witnessed it up close and personal. If you dont have the heart to pull the trigger there is a great chance they will take it from you and shoot your ass off. The other problem is you may fuck up royally and shoot an innocent victim like this dumb ass did and he wasnt even old.


‘Good guy with a gun’ tries to stop carjacking, shoots victim in the head instead and bails

Sorry….actual research of 5,000 news stories covering actual defensive uses of guns show that the majority of people armed with guns who are disarmed……are the criminals……not the victims...

Sorry I dont believe you. Try harder to convince me like with maybe a link to this research. No right wing funded studies. Real research.

Sorry….this is actual research of actual news stories……..they also define the limitations of the work but it gives valuable in sites into defensive gun uses…

From the book, or White Paper from CATO...."Tough Targets"


---------------------------
They then go on to explain how this can distort numbers by siting an article from Time magazine that looked at deaths in one day and then went back to check on the cases a year later....the 14 non law enforcement justifiable homicides went up to 28 because a year later the 14 other gun crimes were found to be justifiable homicides....and at least 43 other murder cases had not gone to trial....

"clearly, the FBI justifiable homicide data is not particularly meaningful for understanding defensive gun uses that result in death-and is useless for understanding the vastly larger number of defensive gun uses that do not result in death."

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf

The Data Set

Since the survey data has severe limita- tions with respect to defensive gun uses, collecting accounts of self-defense as they are reported in news outlets may be a better method of assessing the frequency and na- ture of self-defense with firearms. The data set supporting this paper is derived from a collection of news stories published between October 2003 and November 2011.12

There is a selection bias problem with the method of gathering news stories. Many defensive gun uses never make the news. Sometimes that is because the person us- ing a gun in self-defense saw no need to call the police—he or she scared off the bad guy. In some cases, the victim might not want to explain to the police that he has a gun, perhaps because he is a felon, or perhaps because he lives in a jurisdiction with very restrictive gun control laws. Sometimes the police do get called, but the officers do not find the circumstances sufficiently impor- tant to issue a press release. After all, “Man Scares away Burglar, No Shots Fired” is not particularly newsworthy, unless you live in a very small town.

In spite of the selection bias problem, there is one enormous advantage to this model of gathering data: it provides a rich set of information about motives, circum- stances, victims, and criminals. It also pro- vides a sufficiently large database (almost 5,000 incidents), randomly selected, so that some conclusions about the nature of armed self-defense in America can be drawn. Best of all, whatever the deficiencies of news reporting, the model is not completely de- pendent on the honesty or accuracy of the respondent—unlike some of the questions raised with respect to defensive gun use sur- veys.

As to wether they included criminals using guns defensively........

In a few instances, we have includ- ed cases where the initial news reports were clearly of legitimate defensive gun uses, but where law enforcement or a prosecutor chose to charge a gun owner.
Those are relatively rare; when there was any doubt as to whether a use of a gun might be criminal, it was not included in our list of news accounts until such time as there was confirmation that the defensive gun use was deemed lawful. In only a handful of cases did later investiga- tion turn an initial defensive gun use into a criminalcharge.Themostcommonscenario is that law enforcement officers chose not to prosecute based on the evidence at the scene and testimony of witnesses, but referred the case to a grand jury for review.

Dont deflect by posting longwind BS. Provide a link to support your claim. Nothing in your post says the criminal was the one that got the gun taken from them the majority of the time.

Wait till I finish posting it twit……I was giving the extent of the research into the stories of defensive gun use….this is the part where they talk about more criminals being disarmed by victims….twit.

This enormous disparity—227 criminals disarmed by their victims compared to 11 victims disarmed by criminals—is not necessarily an accurate measure of how often this
happens. Because the data set gathers defensive gun use stories, many incidents where a criminal disarmed and killed a victim will likely not be reported. Still, since the research methods of the authors are unbiased (i.e.,stacked in favor of finding one type of storyversus the other), the numbers suggest that the great fear of gun control advocates—criminals disarming victims—is exaggerated

Werid how you missed all of this.

—is not necessarily an accurate measure of how often this
happens. Because the data set gathers defensive gun use stories, many incidents where a criminal disarmed and killed a victim will likely not be reported.

Even if its correct, you claimed it didnt ever happen.

 

[2aguy]

Sorry….actual research of 5,000 news stories covering actual defensive uses of guns show that the majority of people armed with guns who are disarmed……are the criminals……not the victims...

Sorry I dont believe you. Try harder to convince me like with maybe a link to this research. No right wing funded studies. Real research.

Sorry….this is actual research of actual news stories……..they also define the limitations of the work but it gives valuable in sites into defensive gun uses…

From the book, or White Paper from CATO...."Tough Targets"


---------------------------
They then go on to explain how this can distort numbers by siting an article from Time magazine that looked at deaths in one day and then went back to check on the cases a year later....the 14 non law enforcement justifiable homicides went up to 28 because a year later the 14 other gun crimes were found to be justifiable homicides....and at least 43 other murder cases had not gone to trial....

"clearly, the FBI justifiable homicide data is not particularly meaningful for understanding defensive gun uses that result in death-and is useless for understanding the vastly larger number of defensive gun uses that do not result in death."

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf

The Data Set

Since the survey data has severe limita- tions with respect to defensive gun uses, collecting accounts of self-defense as they are reported in news outlets may be a better method of assessing the frequency and na- ture of self-defense with firearms. The data set supporting this paper is derived from a collection of news stories published between October 2003 and November 2011.12

There is a selection bias problem with the method of gathering news stories. Many defensive gun uses never make the news. Sometimes that is because the person us- ing a gun in self-defense saw no need to call the police—he or she scared off the bad guy. In some cases, the victim might not want to explain to the police that he has a gun, perhaps because he is a felon, or perhaps because he lives in a jurisdiction with very restrictive gun control laws. Sometimes the police do get called, but the officers do not find the circumstances sufficiently impor- tant to issue a press release. After all, “Man Scares away Burglar, No Shots Fired” is not particularly newsworthy, unless you live in a very small town.

In spite of the selection bias problem, there is one enormous advantage to this model of gathering data: it provides a rich set of information about motives, circum- stances, victims, and criminals. It also pro- vides a sufficiently large database (almost 5,000 incidents), randomly selected, so that some conclusions about the nature of armed self-defense in America can be drawn. Best of all, whatever the deficiencies of news reporting, the model is not completely de- pendent on the honesty or accuracy of the respondent—unlike some of the questions raised with respect to defensive gun use sur- veys.

As to wether they included criminals using guns defensively........

In a few instances, we have includ- ed cases where the initial news reports were clearly of legitimate defensive gun uses, but where law enforcement or a prosecutor chose to charge a gun owner.
Those are relatively rare; when there was any doubt as to whether a use of a gun might be criminal, it was not included in our list of news accounts until such time as there was confirmation that the defensive gun use was deemed lawful. In only a handful of cases did later investiga- tion turn an initial defensive gun use into a criminalcharge.Themostcommonscenario is that law enforcement officers chose not to prosecute based on the evidence at the scene and testimony of witnesses, but referred the case to a grand jury for review.

Dont deflect by posting longwind BS. Provide a link to support your claim. Nothing in your post says the criminal was the one that got the gun taken from them the majority of the time.

Wait till I finish posting it twit……I was giving the extent of the research into the stories of defensive gun use….this is the part where they talk about more criminals being disarmed by victims….twit.

This enormous disparity—227 criminals disarmed by their victims compared to 11 victims disarmed by criminals—is not necessarily an accurate measure of how often this
happens. Because the data set gathers defensive gun use stories, many incidents where a criminal disarmed and killed a victim will likely not be reported. Still, since the research methods of the authors are unbiased (i.e.,stacked in favor of finding one type of storyversus the other), the numbers suggest that the great fear of gun control advocates—criminals disarming victims—is exaggerated

Werid how you missed all of this.

—is not necessarily an accurate measure of how often this
happens. Because the data set gathers defensive gun use stories, many incidents where a criminal disarmed and killed a victim will likely not be reported.

And I am not surprised that you failed to add this to your post…..

Still, since the research methods of the authors are unbiased (i.e.,stacked in favor of finding one type of storyversus the other), the numbers suggest that the great fear of gun control advocates—criminals disarming victims—is exaggerated

Or this…..

This enormous disparity—227 criminals disarmed by their victims compared to 11 victims disarmed by criminals

 

[Asclepias]

Yes....the good news is the man was not shot to death....he was just beaten to death by these three, young, aggressively violent criminals.........

I know...I know....you are all relieved that he was not shot.....he was only beaten to death.......good news all the way around...right? Well...except for that getting beaten to death part...that is kind of a downer...but then again...he wasn't shot....right?

79-year-old man dies after beating at Aurora club

A 79-year-old man died after he was beaten during a robbery early Sunday at a club in west suburban Aurora.

About 5:30 a.m., three masked men broke into the Latin American Club in the 1300 block of Dearborn Avenue and demanded money from two men who were cleaning the building, according to a statement from Aurora police.

The suspects attacked the men simultaneously and beat them until they were unconscious, police said.


Soooooo....this is what a robbery looks like with no guns.....

Hmmmm...I wonder what would have happened if one of the victims had had a gun.....

So he wasnt shot and killed? If he had a gun they would have probably taken it and shot him with it.

Hmmm…or this one….

Man disarms robber, gives gun to cops - Latest News

ST JAMES, Jamaica – One Browning 9mm pistol and eight rounds of ammunition were handed over to the police after a failed robbery attempt in Marchmont, Cambridge in St James on Tuesday.

The Cambridge Police report that about 10:30 pm, a resident was washing his car on the outside of his house when he was approached by armed men who demanded money.

When the demands were not met, a tussle ensued and the resident managed to disarm one of his attackers, who then fled the scene.

The police were summoned and the weapon handed over to them.

More proof that anyone can have a gun taken from them. Thanks for providing proof unless you are claiming that the victim is protected by some unseen force from this happening to them.

 

[Asclepias]

Sorry I dont believe you. Try harder to convince me like with maybe a link to this research. No right wing funded studies. Real research.

Sorry….this is actual research of actual news stories……..they also define the limitations of the work but it gives valuable in sites into defensive gun uses…

From the book, or White Paper from CATO...."Tough Targets"


---------------------------
They then go on to explain how this can distort numbers by siting an article from Time magazine that looked at deaths in one day and then went back to check on the cases a year later....the 14 non law enforcement justifiable homicides went up to 28 because a year later the 14 other gun crimes were found to be justifiable homicides....and at least 43 other murder cases had not gone to trial....

"clearly, the FBI justifiable homicide data is not particularly meaningful for understanding defensive gun uses that result in death-and is useless for understanding the vastly larger number of defensive gun uses that do not result in death."

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf

The Data Set

Since the survey data has severe limita- tions with respect to defensive gun uses, collecting accounts of self-defense as they are reported in news outlets may be a better method of assessing the frequency and na- ture of self-defense with firearms. The data set supporting this paper is derived from a collection of news stories published between October 2003 and November 2011.12

There is a selection bias problem with the method of gathering news stories. Many defensive gun uses never make the news. Sometimes that is because the person us- ing a gun in self-defense saw no need to call the police—he or she scared off the bad guy. In some cases, the victim might not want to explain to the police that he has a gun, perhaps because he is a felon, or perhaps because he lives in a jurisdiction with very restrictive gun control laws. Sometimes the police do get called, but the officers do not find the circumstances sufficiently impor- tant to issue a press release. After all, “Man Scares away Burglar, No Shots Fired” is not particularly newsworthy, unless you live in a very small town.

In spite of the selection bias problem, there is one enormous advantage to this model of gathering data: it provides a rich set of information about motives, circum- stances, victims, and criminals. It also pro- vides a sufficiently large database (almost 5,000 incidents), randomly selected, so that some conclusions about the nature of armed self-defense in America can be drawn. Best of all, whatever the deficiencies of news reporting, the model is not completely de- pendent on the honesty or accuracy of the respondent—unlike some of the questions raised with respect to defensive gun use sur- veys.

As to wether they included criminals using guns defensively........

In a few instances, we have includ- ed cases where the initial news reports were clearly of legitimate defensive gun uses, but where law enforcement or a prosecutor chose to charge a gun owner.
Those are relatively rare; when there was any doubt as to whether a use of a gun might be criminal, it was not included in our list of news accounts until such time as there was confirmation that the defensive gun use was deemed lawful. In only a handful of cases did later investiga- tion turn an initial defensive gun use into a criminalcharge.Themostcommonscenario is that law enforcement officers chose not to prosecute based on the evidence at the scene and testimony of witnesses, but referred the case to a grand jury for review.

Dont deflect by posting longwind BS. Provide a link to support your claim. Nothing in your post says the criminal was the one that got the gun taken from them the majority of the time.

Wait till I finish posting it twit……I was giving the extent of the research into the stories of defensive gun use….this is the part where they talk about more criminals being disarmed by victims….twit.

This enormous disparity—227 criminals disarmed by their victims compared to 11 victims disarmed by criminals—is not necessarily an accurate measure of how often this
happens. Because the data set gathers defensive gun use stories, many incidents where a criminal disarmed and killed a victim will likely not be reported. Still, since the research methods of the authors are unbiased (i.e.,stacked in favor of finding one type of storyversus the other), the numbers suggest that the great fear of gun control advocates—criminals disarming victims—is exaggerated

Werid how you missed all of this.

—is not necessarily an accurate measure of how often this
happens. Because the data set gathers defensive gun use stories, many incidents where a criminal disarmed and killed a victim will likely not be reported.

And I am not surprised that you failed to add this to your post…..

Still, since the research methods of the authors are unbiased (i.e.,stacked in favor of finding one type of storyversus the other), the numbers suggest that the great fear of gun control advocates—criminals disarming victims—is exaggerated

Or this…..

This enormous disparity—227 criminals disarmed by their victims compared to 11 victims disarmed by criminals

Well they already explained that by saying it goes unreported.

 

[2aguy]

Yes....the good news is the man was not shot to death....he was just beaten to death by these three, young, aggressively violent criminals.........

I know...I know....you are all relieved that he was not shot.....he was only beaten to death.......good news all the way around...right? Well...except for that getting beaten to death part...that is kind of a downer...but then again...he wasn't shot....right?

79-year-old man dies after beating at Aurora club

A 79-year-old man died after he was beaten during a robbery early Sunday at a club in west suburban Aurora.

About 5:30 a.m., three masked men broke into the Latin American Club in the 1300 block of Dearborn Avenue and demanded money from two men who were cleaning the building, according to a statement from Aurora police.

The suspects attacked the men simultaneously and beat them until they were unconscious, police said.


Soooooo....this is what a robbery looks like with no guns.....

Hmmmm...I wonder what would have happened if one of the victims had had a gun.....

So he wasnt shot and killed? If he had a gun they would have probably taken it and shot him with it.

Hmmm…or this one….

Man disarms robber, gives gun to cops - Latest News

ST JAMES, Jamaica – One Browning 9mm pistol and eight rounds of ammunition were handed over to the police after a failed robbery attempt in Marchmont, Cambridge in St James on Tuesday.

The Cambridge Police report that about 10:30 pm, a resident was washing his car on the outside of his house when he was approached by armed men who demanded money.

When the demands were not met, a tussle ensued and the resident managed to disarm one of his attackers, who then fled the scene.

The police were summoned and the weapon handed over to them.

More proof that anyone can have a gun taken from them. Thanks for providing proof unless you are claiming that the victim is protected by some unseen force from this happening to them.

You need to realize that the criminal has no reason to press the attack…they are not looking for a fight….so that is why they are disarmed more often…..they assume they have the victim under control….and then when shooting might start and they aren't the one with the gun, they flee rather than fight it out…as most gun self defense encounters actually happen….

The victim…….they are stuck…if they just try to run they can be shot…..they actually fear for their lives so they have more to lose if they fail to gain control of the gun….



But….move the goal posts…..I provided research that shows more criminals are disarmed……with the caveat that it is only stories covered by the news….but 227 to 11 is no small number…….and then I provide actual video of victims disarming criminals…and you ignore that as well….

And now here is a female senior citizen who uses a gun…and doesn't have it taken away…..

NRA-ILA | Elderly woman scares off home invader, WSVN, Miami, Fla. 11/11/15

88-year-old Arlene Orms was at home alone in Miami, Fla. when an intruder kicked in her door. Orms responded by retrieving a .25-caliber pistol and firing at the home invader, prompting the criminal to flee.

Do you ever hurt your back when you move the goal post so often…..

 

[2aguy]

Sorry….this is actual research of actual news stories……..they also define the limitations of the work but it gives valuable in sites into defensive gun uses…

From the book, or White Paper from CATO...."Tough Targets"


---------------------------
They then go on to explain how this can distort numbers by siting an article from Time magazine that looked at deaths in one day and then went back to check on the cases a year later....the 14 non law enforcement justifiable homicides went up to 28 because a year later the 14 other gun crimes were found to be justifiable homicides....and at least 43 other murder cases had not gone to trial....




http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf

The Data Set




As to wether they included criminals using guns defensively........

Dont deflect by posting longwind BS. Provide a link to support your claim. Nothing in your post says the criminal was the one that got the gun taken from them the majority of the time.

Wait till I finish posting it twit……I was giving the extent of the research into the stories of defensive gun use….this is the part where they talk about more criminals being disarmed by victims….twit.

This enormous disparity—227 criminals disarmed by their victims compared to 11 victims disarmed by criminals—is not necessarily an accurate measure of how often this
happens. Because the data set gathers defensive gun use stories, many incidents where a criminal disarmed and killed a victim will likely not be reported. Still, since the research methods of the authors are unbiased (i.e.,stacked in favor of finding one type of storyversus the other), the numbers suggest that the great fear of gun control advocates—criminals disarming victims—is exaggerated

Werid how you missed all of this.

—is not necessarily an accurate measure of how often this
happens. Because the data set gathers defensive gun use stories, many incidents where a criminal disarmed and killed a victim will likely not be reported.

And I am not surprised that you failed to add this to your post…..

Still, since the research methods of the authors are unbiased (i.e.,stacked in favor of finding one type of storyversus the other), the numbers suggest that the great fear of gun control advocates—criminals disarming victims—is exaggerated

Or this…..

This enormous disparity—227 criminals disarmed by their victims compared to 11 victims disarmed by criminals

Well they already explained that by saying it goes unreported.

Yes….keep saying that to yourself…..you might believe it one day…..

This enormous disparity—227 criminals disarmed by their victims compared to 11 victims disarmed by criminals

 

[bodecea]

Yes....the good news is the man was not shot to death....he was just beaten to death by these three, young, aggressively violent criminals.........

I know...I know....you are all relieved that he was not shot.....he was only beaten to death.......good news all the way around...right? Well...except for that getting beaten to death part...that is kind of a downer...but then again...he wasn't shot....right?

79-year-old man dies after beating at Aurora club

A 79-year-old man died after he was beaten during a robbery early Sunday at a club in west suburban Aurora.

About 5:30 a.m., three masked men broke into the Latin American Club in the 1300 block of Dearborn Avenue and demanded money from two men who were cleaning the building, according to a statement from Aurora police.

The suspects attacked the men simultaneously and beat them until they were unconscious, police said.


Soooooo....this is what a robbery looks like with no guns.....

Hmmmm...I wonder what would have happened if one of the victims had had a gun.....

I'm sorry...but this is not news anymore...come back when you have 15+ dead. That's the going rate now....15+.

 

[kiwiman127]

Yes....the good news is the man was not shot to death....he was just beaten to death by these three, young, aggressively violent criminals.........

I know...I know....you are all relieved that he was not shot.....he was only beaten to death.......good news all the way around...right? Well...except for that getting beaten to death part...that is kind of a downer...but then again...he wasn't shot....right?

79-year-old man dies after beating at Aurora club

A 79-year-old man died after he was beaten during a robbery early Sunday at a club in west suburban Aurora.

About 5:30 a.m., three masked men broke into the Latin American Club in the 1300 block of Dearborn Avenue and demanded money from two men who were cleaning the building, according to a statement from Aurora police.

The suspects attacked the men simultaneously and beat them until they were unconscious, police said.


Soooooo....this is what a robbery looks like with no guns.....

Hmmmm...I wonder what would have happened if one of the victims had had a gun.....

Exactly, how many threads do you start on guns?
You seem to have quite the obsession with guns, maybe even a dangerous obsession.
In our household we have six guns, all utilized for hunting, (deer, ducks, pheasants, rabbits). But we don't wake up every morning and obsess about them, nor do we obsess with the concept that every person in America should own guns.
Personally, I think you need a new hobby, girlfriend or a new life.

 

[2aguy]

Yes....the good news is the man was not shot to death....he was just beaten to death by these three, young, aggressively violent criminals.........

I know...I know....you are all relieved that he was not shot.....he was only beaten to death.......good news all the way around...right? Well...except for that getting beaten to death part...that is kind of a downer...but then again...he wasn't shot....right?

79-year-old man dies after beating at Aurora club

A 79-year-old man died after he was beaten during a robbery early Sunday at a club in west suburban Aurora.

About 5:30 a.m., three masked men broke into the Latin American Club in the 1300 block of Dearborn Avenue and demanded money from two men who were cleaning the building, according to a statement from Aurora police.

The suspects attacked the men simultaneously and beat them until they were unconscious, police said.


Soooooo....this is what a robbery looks like with no guns.....

Hmmmm...I wonder what would have happened if one of the victims had had a gun.....

Exactly, how many threads do you start on guns?
You seem to have quite the obsession with guns, maybe even a dangerous obsession.
In our household we have six guns, all utilized for hunting, (deer, ducks, pheasants, rabbits). But we don't wake up every morning and obsess about them, nor do we obsess with the concept that every person in America should own guns.
Personally, I think you need a new hobby, girlfriend or a new life.

So the fact that you have more guns than I do….does that make you dangerous then? Or that you have rifles which the gun grabbers seem to hate more than anything….does that make you more dangerous?

I use to teach self defense….and the 2nd Amendment is under constant attack…..it interests me….and so I post on it…...