9/11: What really happened on that day?

[phoenyx]

I never said that thousands were in on it. Quit making assumptions.

Then you are either lying or stupid.

Ad hominem can silence a discussion, but they certainly don't win an argument by logic. Anyway, continue like that and I'll just put you on ignore.

This discussion is over anyway.

It may well be. It takes 2 to tango. I'm only one side of the debate. Anyway, as to the Pentaplane flyover theory thread, I'm pretty sure I'll get back to it, I just think I want a bit of time off from all the ad hominem attacks in general. I've been really getting to like the Clean Debate Zone. I just made a thread there regarding current U.S. wars, which (in theory) could eventually lead to the subject of 9/11.

 

[Divine Wind]

Ad hominem can silence a discussion, but they certainly don't win an argument by logic. Anyway, continue like that and I'll just put you on ignore.

It's not an ad hominem when it's true: you 9/11 was a conspiracy by our own government, that airliners didn't really crash into buildings and that controlled demolitions were used to bring down buildings, yet you also assert that only a handful of people were needed to not only accomplish this, but cover it up. That's stupid or you are lying about the numbers of people involved.

 

[Faun]

I never said that thousands were in on it. Quit making assumptions.

Then you are either lying or stupid.

Ad hominem can silence a discussion, but they certainly don't win an argument by logic. Anyway, continue like that and I'll just put you on ignore.

This discussion is over anyway.

It may well be. It takes 2 to tango. I'm only one side of the debate. Anyway, as to the Pentaplane flyover theory thread, I'm pretty sure I'll get back to it, I just think I want a bit of time off from all the ad hominem attacks in general. I've been really getting to like the Clean Debate Zone. I just made a thread there regarding current U.S. wars, which (in theory) could eventually lead to the subject of 9/11.

I've not been attacking you personally yet you still refuse to acknowledge or refute the Citgo surveillance video. It matters not which thread we're on, this one or the other one; since the Citgo surveillance video proves the plane flew south of the Citgo, which in turn, proves it flew into the Pentagon, which in turn, proves commercial planes were flown into the WTC.

 

[Divine Wind]

I've not been attacking you personally yet you still refuse to acknowledge or refute the Citgo surveillance video. It matters not which thread we're on, this one or the other one; since the Citgo surveillance video proves the plane flew south of the Citgo, which in turn, proves it flew into the Pentagon, which in turn, proves commercial planes were flown into the WTC.

Expect him to either:
1) Deny it exists.
2) Claim it was faked.
3) Attack you in order to derail the conversation away from this flaw in his argument.
4) Run, dodge and, generally, not discuss it with you.

 

[Faun]

I've not been attacking you personally yet you still refuse to acknowledge or refute the Citgo surveillance video. It matters not which thread we're on, this one or the other one; since the Citgo surveillance video proves the plane flew south of the Citgo, which in turn, proves it flew into the Pentagon, which in turn, proves commercial planes were flown into the WTC.

Expect him to either:
1) Deny it exists.
2) Claim it was faked.
3) Attack you in order to derail the conversation away from this flaw in his argument.
4) Run, dodge and, generally, not discuss it with you.

He's been doing #4 despite my efforts to engage him. I'm not sure if he understands I read that as a concession.

 

[Divine Wind]

He's been doing #4 despite my efforts to engage him. I'm not sure if he understands I read that as a concession.

IMHO, it's irrational to expect irrational people to act rational.

Secondly, conspiracy theorists are mentally hampered (at best) and ill at worst. They are desperate to make sense of a chaotic world and cannot accept the maxim "Shit happens" because it scares the crap out of them. They feel that if they can make sense of it, give a reason for it, then it gives them a calming for their tortured souls.

I don't expect to convince phoenyx of anything nor am I trying to do so. It's a complete waste of time to attempt rationalizing with an irrational person. My sole purpose is to show that rational people disagree with the conspiracy theorist nonsense.

 

[phoenyx]

Ad hominem can silence a discussion, but they certainly don't win an argument by logic. Anyway, continue like that and I'll just put you on ignore.

It's not an ad hominem when it's true

Google defines an ad hominem as "(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining." As such, whether or not it is true is thus irrelevant. I think I'd have been more accurate in simply calling what many do here as vilification- and I am aware that it occurs on both sides. After discussing vilification and other issues with a poster in the Clean Debate subforum, I've decided to once again try to get into this discussion in this sub forum that doesn't have the guidelines of the Clean Debate subforum. One of his solutions was to simply put people who irritated him too much on ignore. Up until recently, I hadn't put anyone on ignore. I've now put one poster in this forum on ignore, at said poster's suggestion, and may start adding more people to the list, in the hopes that this will alleviate the frustration I have found here.

 

[phoenyx]

It may well be. It takes 2 to tango. I'm only one side of the debate. Anyway, as to the Pentaplane flyover theory thread, I'm pretty sure I'll get back to it, I just think I want a bit of time off from all the ad hominem attacks in general. I've been really getting to like the Clean Debate Zone. I just made a thread there regarding current U.S. wars, which (in theory) could eventually lead to the subject of 9/11.

I've not been attacking you personally

You've attacked truthers in general, of which I consider myself to be a card carrying member. As far as I'm concerned, if you attack a group I'm a member of, you're attacking me as well. As to the rest of your post, as I mentioned in the past, I do intend to get back to the Pentaplane Flyover Theory thread, eventually.

 

[Divine Wind]

You've attacked truthers in general, of which I consider myself to be a card carrying member. As far as I'm concerned, if you attack a group I'm a member of, you're attacking me as well. As to the rest of your post, as I mentioned in the past, I do intend to get back to the Pentaplane Flyover Theory thread, eventually.

Dude, calling yourself a "truther" doesn't mean you are truly seeking the truth as evidenced by your refusal to consider the thousands of Americans who, if this conspiracy theory were true, would have to keep it a secret.

Conspiracies happen and are often useful, but they can't be kept secret for long. Example; the Manhattan Project. The world knew about it with a few years of its beginning and the fucking Soviets had the secrets of the project within 4 years of the end of WWII.

 

[phoenyx]

You've attacked truthers in general, of which I consider myself to be a card carrying member. As far as I'm concerned, if you attack a group I'm a member of, you're attacking me as well. As to the rest of your post, as I mentioned in the past, I do intend to get back to the Pentaplane Flyover Theory thread, eventually.

Dude, calling yourself a "truther" doesn't mean you are truly seeking the truth

True, simply calling oneself a truther does not guarantee that a person is seeking the truth.

as evidenced by your refusal to consider the thousands of Americans who, if this conspiracy theory were true, would have to keep it a secret.

First of all, what is it that you think thousands of Americans would have had to have kept secret?

 

[candycorn]

Truthers are pretty much the scum of the earth.

 

[phoenyx]

Truthers are pretty much the scum of the earth.

I've seen you vilify truthers before. I've finally decided the best solution for me personally is to simply put you on ignore. You have the distinction of being the second person on the list. I have a feeling you won't be the last.

 

[SAYIT]

You've attacked truthers in general, of which I consider myself to be a card carrying member. As far as I'm concerned, if you attack a group I'm a member of, you're attacking me as well. As to the rest of your post, as I mentioned in the past, I do intend to get back to the Pentaplane Flyover Theory thread, eventually.

Dude, calling yourself a "truther" doesn't mean you are truly seeking the truth as evidenced by your refusal to consider the thousands of Americans who, if this conspiracy theory were true, would have to keep it a secret.

Conspiracies happen and are often useful, but they can't be kept secret for long. Example; the Manhattan Project. The world knew about it with a few years of its beginning and the fucking Soviets had the secrets of the project within 4 years of the end of WWII.

You are, of course, applying adult concepts such as logic, perspective, and Occam's Razor. None of the "Truther's" alternate universe theories make a lick of sense. It is absurd to cling desperately to 9/11 CTs that rely on tens of thousands of participants or to insist AA77 veered off (unseen) at the last possible moment only to be replaced by another projectile (like a missile, also unseen) when AA77 would have done the same damage. To believe AA77 then flew off (again, unseen) to some secret place where the jet, its crew and its passengers were disposed of (all unseen) is the kind of insanity that can overtake weak minded CT sheeple and those with less than honest (profit, fame, glory), even insidious agendas.

When a member's spell is broken the Movement's rabid dogs circle the wagons and go into full attack mode. The former CT - as if awakened from a bad dream - is inclined to say things like: “I thought the term ‘Truth Movement’ meant that there’d be some search for truth. I was wrong. I was the new Stalin. The poster boy for a mad movement.” - Charlie Veitch

The 9/11 conspiracy theorist who changed his mind

 

[Faun]

It may well be. It takes 2 to tango. I'm only one side of the debate. Anyway, as to the Pentaplane flyover theory thread, I'm pretty sure I'll get back to it, I just think I want a bit of time off from all the ad hominem attacks in general. I've been really getting to like the Clean Debate Zone. I just made a thread there regarding current U.S. wars, which (in theory) could eventually lead to the subject of 9/11.

I've not been attacking you personally

You've attacked truthers in general, of which I consider myself to be a card carrying member. As far as I'm concerned, if you attack a group I'm a member of, you're attacking me as well. As to the rest of your post, as I mentioned in the past, I do intend to get back to the Pentaplane Flyover Theory thread, eventually.

So you finally come back to your own thread, not to address the nail in the coffin to your nonsense ... but to whine about how folks are treating you??

You're done. Your thread is a fail and you failed miserably to prove your case. It appears you've even given up trying.

 

[Divine Wind]

First of all, what is it that you think thousands of Americans would have had to have kept secret?

Everything from the "conspiracy" to blow up the WTC and Pentagon to the investigators of the attack. Also factor in the friends and relatives of the victims.

 

[Divine Wind]

Truthers are pretty much the scum of the earth.

Disagreed. Liars are scum of the Earth. Truthers are, like other conspiracy theorists, just sad people who are incapable of handling the chaos of reality so they trick themselves into believing they "know" the truth. It's okay to confront their delusions, but they should be pitied, not scorned.

 

[Faun]

You've attacked truthers in general, of which I consider myself to be a card carrying member. As far as I'm concerned, if you attack a group I'm a member of, you're attacking me as well. As to the rest of your post, as I mentioned in the past, I do intend to get back to the Pentaplane Flyover Theory thread, eventually.

Dude, calling yourself a "truther" doesn't mean you are truly seeking the truth as evidenced by your refusal to consider the thousands of Americans who, if this conspiracy theory were true, would have to keep it a secret.

Conspiracies happen and are often useful, but they can't be kept secret for long. Example; the Manhattan Project. The world knew about it with a few years of its beginning and the fucking Soviets had the secrets of the project within 4 years of the end of WWII.

You are, of course, applying adult concepts such as logic, perspective, and Occam's Razor. None of the "Truther's" alternate universe theories make a lick of sense. It is absurd to cling desperately to 9/11 CTs that rely on tens of thousands of participants or to insist AA77 veered off (unseen) at the last possible moment only to be replaced by another projectile (like a missile, also unseen) when AA77 would have done the same damage. To believe AA77 then flew off (again, unseen) to some secret place where the jet, its crew and its passengers were disposed of (all unseen) is the kind of insanity that can overtake weak minded CT sheeple and those with less than honest (profit, fame, glory), even insidious agendas.

When a member's spell is broken the Movement's rabid dogs circle the wagons and go into full attack mode. The former CT - as if awakened from a bad dream - is inclined to say things like: “I thought the term ‘Truth Movement’ meant that there’d be some search for truth. I was wrong. I was the new Stalin. The poster boy for a mad movement.” - Charlie Veitch

The 9/11 conspiracy theorist who changed his mind

Of course no plane flew over the Pentagon. Had it, it would have been clearly visible in this video taken from the other side of the Pentagon...

 

[phoenyx]

It may well be. It takes 2 to tango. I'm only one side of the debate. Anyway, as to the Pentaplane flyover theory thread, I'm pretty sure I'll get back to it, I just think I want a bit of time off from all the ad hominem attacks in general. I've been really getting to like the Clean Debate Zone. I just made a thread there regarding current U.S. wars, which (in theory) could eventually lead to the subject of 9/11.

I've not been attacking you personally

You've attacked truthers in general, of which I consider myself to be a card carrying member. As far as I'm concerned, if you attack a group I'm a member of, you're attacking me as well. As to the rest of your post, as I mentioned in the past, I do intend to get back to the Pentaplane Flyover Theory thread, eventually.

So you finally come back to your own thread,

Don't tell me you were waiting with baited breath .

not to address the nail in the coffin to your nonsense ...

Sigh -.- Just because I'm not interested in going over the details of a single point regarding the Pentagon attack doesn't mean that it's "the nail in the coffin" of those who disagree with the official conspiracy theories concerning 9/11.

 

[phoenyx]

First of all, what is it that you think thousands of Americans would have had to have kept secret?

Everything from the "conspiracy" to blow up the WTC and Pentagon to the investigators of the attack. Also factor in the friends and relatives of the victims.

Many people question the official conspiracy theory, including 300+ survivors and family members:
Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report

 

[Faun]

It may well be. It takes 2 to tango. I'm only one side of the debate. Anyway, as to the Pentaplane flyover theory thread, I'm pretty sure I'll get back to it, I just think I want a bit of time off from all the ad hominem attacks in general. I've been really getting to like the Clean Debate Zone. I just made a thread there regarding current U.S. wars, which (in theory) could eventually lead to the subject of 9/11.

I've not been attacking you personally

You've attacked truthers in general, of which I consider myself to be a card carrying member. As far as I'm concerned, if you attack a group I'm a member of, you're attacking me as well. As to the rest of your post, as I mentioned in the past, I do intend to get back to the Pentaplane Flyover Theory thread, eventually.

So you finally come back to your own thread,

Don't tell me you were waiting with baited breath .

not to address the nail in the coffin to your nonsense ...

Sigh -.- Just because I'm not interested in going over the details of a single point regarding the Pentagon attack doesn't mean that it's "the nail in the coffin" of those who disagree with the official conspiracy theories concerning 9/11.

Just to clarify... that single point being tbe visual evidence the plane flew south of the Citgo station.

But I understand why you choose to ignore it.