A Conservative's view on waterboarding

[Wicked Jester]

You bought a gross of those, didn't you?

Why?.......You need one?

No, you can have them....I'm fine without one. But I suspect it would fit beautifully and appropriately on your vehicle.

No, you need it.

I'm perfectly happy with my "Liberals are fuckin' idiots" sticker.

 

[spectrumc01]

Cite one example where the US government hired a "torturer".

Really....really you need one example of us hiring a torturer. Ok, here you go. After the 911 attacks we started rounding up so-called terrorists, at the time we could not torture them ourselves because we still had honor and integrity. So what we did was turn them over to countries like Turkey and Pakistan to do our torturing for us. That is called hiring torturers. Eventually we moved them to gitmo and started using our own torturers and soiled our honor and proved we have no integrity.

Just you calling it "hiring" doesn't make it so. Where's the evidence? A DOD statement would suffice.


No one was ever waterboarded at Gitmo.

Well here you go...
1) CIA sends terror suspects abroad for interrogation

2) Annals of Justice: Outsourcing Torture : The New Yorker

3) Bush authorized CIA to send suspects to foreign jails - Baltimore Sun

DOD statements are classified and unfortuately I have no clearance for that info.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Your U.S. Government does far worse than dunking Terrorists' heads in water. They do it all around the World and on a daily basis. And it's both Democrats & Republicans doing it. The Water-Boarding thing was a scam controversy concocted by the Left/Democrats to get the power back. Look at how they have behaved since getting that power back. Left/Democrats are the biggest blood-thirsty War Mongers in this country. So much for the "Anti-War Left" huh? If you want to get outraged,you should save it for speaking out against our Government bombing & murdering Gaddafi's Son and Grandchildren a couple of weeks ago. Now that is something to get outraged about. But "Water-Boarding?" Yea that's just a political scam.

 

[Robert]

I see, the old "I love my family more" card.



And like I said that's your problem I could care less how you treat your family. This is also my Nation sport.

You really revealed yourself when you showed that you have zero limitations in how far we should . And where or when did we "mutilate" bodies I can't help but to notice that you can never speak to the truth of the statements but instead feel you must inject something that is not there why is that?

(their worst characteristic to you). You can't mock them beheading americans, you can't mock them torturing people, kidnapping people, killing them, none of those principles are beneath you.

Mocking a Terrorists is mostly pointless don't you think what more needs to be said other then they are Islamic they murder and kill and attack anyone who does not believe as they believe something like an untrained Dog. Do I really need to say more on that?

A lot of people are shocked about how someone like Hitler could rise to power and do the awful things to humanity that he did in a time that seems so recent.

I'm not, there's a lot of types like Robert who if they had enough power would make Hitler look like a fluffy kitten.

I wouldn't put it passed him (if he had the power) to set up Holocaust camps all over the world in an attempt to kill all 1.7 billion muslims.

Dear god don't forget I stomp on puppies as well! Hell when I make rabbit stew I throw them in Live. And the babies OH yes the babies!!

Nothing like a ass hurt pacifist stomping off in a huff.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I see, the old "I love my family more" card.



And like I said that's your problem I could care less how you treat your family. This is also my Nation sport.

You really revealed yourself when you showed that you have zero limitations in how far we should . And where or when did we "mutilate" bodies I can't help but to notice that you can never speak to the truth of the statements but instead feel you must inject something that is not there why is that?

(their worst characteristic to you). You can't mock them beheading americans, you can't mock them torturing people, kidnapping people, killing them, none of those principles are beneath you.

Mocking a Terrorists is mostly pointless don't you think what more needs to be said other then they are Islamic they murder and kill and attack anyone who does not believe as they believe something like an untrained Dog. Do I really need to say more on that?

A lot of people are shocked about how someone like Hitler could rise to power and do the awful things to humanity that he did in a time that seems so recent.

I'm not, there's a lot of types like Robert who if they had enough power would make Hitler look like a fluffy kitten.

I wouldn't put it passed him (if he had the power) to set up Holocaust camps all over the world in an attempt to kill all 1.7 billion muslims.

Oooooooooooh the draaaaammmmaaaatttiiiiiiiiiicccc liberal hyperbole.

Too fuckin' funny!

Just about as funny that they praise Obama for taking out Bin Laden (the correct thing to do), even though he himself used intelligence based in part on "'da dweaded waterboarding".

Liberals are such hypocritical fools it's fuckin' comical.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Mocking a Terrorists is mostly pointless don't you think what more needs to be said other then they are Islamic they murder and kill and attack anyone who does not believe as they believe something like an untrained Dog. Do I really need to say more on that?

A lot of people are shocked about how someone like Hitler could rise to power and do the awful things to humanity that he did in a time that seems so recent.

I'm not, there's a lot of types like Robert who if they had enough power would make Hitler look like a fluffy kitten.

I wouldn't put it passed him (if he had the power) to set up Holocaust camps all over the world in an attempt to kill all 1.7 billion muslims.

Dear god don't forget I stomp on puppies as well! Hell when I make rabbit stew I throw them in Live. And the babies OH yes the babies!!

Nothing like a ass hurt pacifist stomping off in a huff.

You want muslims tortured and killed because they're muslim, that's a lot worse than doing that stuff with puppies and rabbits.

I'm not stomping off, be here posting til 430 or so. I'm just stating something you likely already know, you're an immoral monster.

I pray your kids see passed it all, mostly for their sake and the sake of the community they choose to live in.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Mocking a Terrorists is mostly pointless don't you think what more needs to be said other then they are Islamic they murder and kill and attack anyone who does not believe as they believe something like an untrained Dog. Do I really need to say more on that?

A lot of people are shocked about how someone like Hitler could rise to power and do the awful things to humanity that he did in a time that seems so recent.

I'm not, there's a lot of types like Robert who if they had enough power would make Hitler look like a fluffy kitten.

I wouldn't put it passed him (if he had the power) to set up Holocaust camps all over the world in an attempt to kill all 1.7 billion muslims.

Oooooooooooh the draaaaammmmaaaatttiiiiiiiiiicccc liberal hyperbole.

Too fuckin' funny!

Just about as funny that they praise Obama for taking out Bin Laden (the correct thing to do), even though he himself used intelligence based in part on "'da dweaded waterboarding".

Liberals are such hypocritical fools it's fuckin' comical.

Name one good thing I've ever said about Obama, I'll wait patiently.

And you're a million times more liberal than I am, I'm certain of that.

 

[Wicked Jester]

A lot of people are shocked about how someone like Hitler could rise to power and do the awful things to humanity that he did in a time that seems so recent.

I'm not, there's a lot of types like Robert who if they had enough power would make Hitler look like a fluffy kitten.

I wouldn't put it passed him (if he had the power) to set up Holocaust camps all over the world in an attempt to kill all 1.7 billion muslims.

Dear god don't forget I stomp on puppies as well! Hell when I make rabbit stew I throw them in Live. And the babies OH yes the babies!!

Nothing like a ass hurt pacifist stomping off in a huff.

You want muslims tortured and killed because they're muslim, that's a lot worse than doing that stuff with puppies and rabbits.

I'm not stomping off, be here posting til 430 or so. I'm just stating something you likely already know, you're an immoral monster.

I pray your kids see passed it all, mostly for their sake and the sake of the community they choose to live in.

Yet you liberals don't seem to have a problem with Obama beating the war drums in Lybia based on the lie that it's a "humanitarian mission", and where US cruise missiles just killed an innocent civilian son and grandchild.

And isn't it just so convenient that Obama ordered the killing of Bin Laden just as the press, too include the liberal main stream media were starting to seriously question the wanton killing of said innocent civilian son and grandchild..........Politically motivated timing?........You betcha!

 

[Wicked Jester]

A lot of people are shocked about how someone like Hitler could rise to power and do the awful things to humanity that he did in a time that seems so recent.

I'm not, there's a lot of types like Robert who if they had enough power would make Hitler look like a fluffy kitten.

I wouldn't put it passed him (if he had the power) to set up Holocaust camps all over the world in an attempt to kill all 1.7 billion muslims.

Oooooooooooh the draaaaammmmaaaatttiiiiiiiiiicccc liberal hyperbole.

Too fuckin' funny!

Just about as funny that they praise Obama for taking out Bin Laden (the correct thing to do), even though he himself used intelligence based in part on "'da dweaded waterboarding".

Liberals are such hypocritical fools it's fuckin' comical.

Name one good thing I've ever said about Obama, I'll wait patiently.

And you're a million times more liberal than I am, I'm certain of that.

Then knock off the fucking liberal hyperbole and dramatics.....Or fully expect to get called on it.

 

[geauxtohell]

" But the case against waterboarding never rested primarily on its usefulness. It rested on its wrongfulness.

/\ This.

We are better than that. Or we should be if we are not.

Like shooting an unarmed man? You can't claim the moral high ground on waterboarding and think it's perfectly fine to kill an unarmed man no matter how much you hate him.

I can damn well do as I please.

Osama was a combatant killed in a raid. Whether that was right or wrong comes down to a split decision made by a shooter on the ground. The mission was not, despite your claims to the contrary, to "kill OBL". It was "kill or capture". He got killed. Oh-fucking-well.

That's far different from taking detainees who are locked up with absolutely no question about whether or not they are "in the fight" and torturing them. It's not the same ballpark, it's not even the same fucking sport.

 

[bodecea]

/\ This.

We are better than that. Or we should be if we are not.

Like shooting an unarmed man? You can't claim the moral high ground on waterboarding and think it's perfectly fine to kill an unarmed man no matter how much you hate him.

I can't damn well do as I please.

Osama was a combatant killed in a raid. Whether that was right or wrong comes down to a split decision made by a shooter on the ground. The mission was not, despite your claims to the contrary, to "kill OBL". It was "kill or capture". He got killed. Oh-fucking-well.

That's far different from taking detainees who are locked up with absolutely no question about whether or not they are "in the fight" and torturing them. It's not the same ballpark, it's not even the same fucking sport.

It's a sport they enjoy playing tho.

 

[Robert]

A lot of people are shocked about how someone like Hitler could rise to power and do the awful things to humanity that he did in a time that seems so recent.

I'm not, there's a lot of types like Robert who if they had enough power would make Hitler look like a fluffy kitten.

I wouldn't put it passed him (if he had the power) to set up Holocaust camps all over the world in an attempt to kill all 1.7 billion muslims.

Dear god don't forget I stomp on puppies as well! Hell when I make rabbit stew I throw them in Live. And the babies OH yes the babies!!

Nothing like a ass hurt pacifist stomping off in a huff.

You want muslims tortured and killed because they're muslim, that's a lot worse than doing that stuff with puppies and rabbits.

I'm not stomping off, be here posting til 430 or so. I'm just stating something you likely already know, you're an immoral monster.

I pray your kids see passed it all, mostly for their sake and the sake of the community they choose to live in.

Ya Numbnuts I want Muslim's killed and I get to eat the babies their bones are ground up and used as fertilizer. Hell don't cha know Id killdem all arrrrgggg.

You're a simpering asshat that doesn't have a clue as to what the hell you're talking about.

When did you stop beatingno family......Really?

 

[geauxtohell]

First, in my opinion a practice that produces intense pain, injury, maiming, and/or causes lasting ill effects to a person's body and/or mind is torture.

It should not be thrown in with practices and techniques that induce dread, fear, humiliation, or tolerable discomfort that might be deemed cruel and unusual punishment, but does not cause intense pain, injury, lasting detriment to health, etc.

I think decent people do not willingly subject people to either torture or other unacceptable treatment. They don' enjoy seeing it in the movies or on TV. It dehumanizes us and makes us no better than the most cruel of animals.

So if somebody asks me, a conservative, whether I condone torture, I can unequivocably say no, I do not. And I will personally do whatever I can to ensure that is the policy of our country.

However. . . .

If somebody has information that could prevent somebody committing an imminent 9/11 or otherwise kill or maim hundreds or thousands of innocent people, most especially if it was people I can honestly say I won't care what they do to him to get the information to save those people.

What waterboarding is, is a very uncomfortable temporary mind fuck, fully meant to soften a person. The info doesn't come from the actual act, it comes from the fact that unless you start squealing like a stuck pig, there could be more mind fucks in your near future.

Now, I experienced actual physical torture and pain, and the ultimate mind fuck of sleep deprived hallucinations during RANGER school. And that was achieved through normal training methods........Waterboarding in S.E.R.E. came nowhere near the pain and mind fuck that basic RANGER training did.......Nor, did waterboarding come anywhere near the mind fuck and sheer terror of being in numerous combat firefights and sketchy situations where the enemy is doing everything they can to turn you into a corpse.

Sleep and food deprivation at Ranger School is done to approximate combat stress. That's a far cry from torture, and you know it.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Oooooooooooh the draaaaammmmaaaatttiiiiiiiiiicccc liberal hyperbole.

Too fuckin' funny!

Just about as funny that they praise Obama for taking out Bin Laden (the correct thing to do), even though he himself used intelligence based in part on "'da dweaded waterboarding".

Liberals are such hypocritical fools it's fuckin' comical.

Name one good thing I've ever said about Obama, I'll wait patiently.

And you're a million times more liberal than I am, I'm certain of that.

Then knock off the fucking liberal hyperbole and dramatics.....Or fully expect to get called on it.

I'm 100% against Libya, 100% against Obama, you're not very good at assumption making.

I don't have to be dramatic, Robert came right out and said muslims should be killed and tortured because they're muslim, what I said is still exactly spot on.

Somehow neocons have convinced themselves that giving government UNLIMITED authority to torture suspects is conservative.

Quick update, limiting government and their power is a conservative virtue and principle.

 

[Robert]

First, in my opinion a practice that produces intense pain, injury, maiming, and/or causes lasting ill effects to a person's body and/or mind is torture.

It should not be thrown in with practices and techniques that induce dread, fear, humiliation, or tolerable discomfort that might be deemed cruel and unusual punishment, but does not cause intense pain, injury, lasting detriment to health, etc.

I think decent people do not willingly subject people to either torture or other unacceptable treatment. They don' enjoy seeing it in the movies or on TV. It dehumanizes us and makes us no better than the most cruel of animals.

So if somebody asks me, a conservative, whether I condone torture, I can unequivocably say no, I do not. And I will personally do whatever I can to ensure that is the policy of our country.

However. . . .

If somebody has information that could prevent somebody committing an imminent 9/11 or otherwise kill or maim hundreds or thousands of innocent people, most especially if it was people I can honestly say I won't care what they do to him to get the information to save those people.

What waterboarding is, is a very uncomfortable temporary mind fuck, fully meant to soften a person. The info doesn't come from the actual act, it comes from the fact that unless you start squealing like a stuck pig, there could be more mind fucks in your near future.

Now, I experienced actual physical torture and pain, and the ultimate mind fuck of sleep deprived hallucinations during RANGER school. And that was achieved through normal training methods........Waterboarding in S.E.R.E. came nowhere near the pain and mind fuck that basic RANGER training did.......Nor, did waterboarding come anywhere near the mind fuck and sheer terror of being in numerous combat firefights and sketchy situations where the enemy is doing everything they can to turn you into a corpse.

Sleep and food deprivation at Ranger School is done to approximate combat stress. That's a far cry from torture, and you know it.

Yes lets all have a good cry because some ass wipe that want's all of us dead got wet. You need a tissue princess?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Dear god don't forget I stomp on puppies as well! Hell when I make rabbit stew I throw them in Live. And the babies OH yes the babies!!

Nothing like a ass hurt pacifist stomping off in a huff.

You want muslims tortured and killed because they're muslim, that's a lot worse than doing that stuff with puppies and rabbits.

I'm not stomping off, be here posting til 430 or so. I'm just stating something you likely already know, you're an immoral monster.

I pray your kids see passed it all, mostly for their sake and the sake of the community they choose to live in.

Ya Numbnuts I want Muslim's killed and I get to eat the babies their bones are ground up and used as fertilizer. Hell don't cha know Id killdem all arrrrgggg.

You're a simpering asshat that doesn't have a clue as to what the hell you're talking about.

When did you stop beating your wife or did you transfer that to your daughter?......Really?

I'm an atheist, all religions (including yours and theirs) are equally stupid to me. I have morals, unnecessary violence is something I'm against, unlike yourself.

You want all muslims killed and/or tortured, you can give cute little stories, but that fact remains and it's that fact that makes you immoral.

 

[geauxtohell]

Yes lets all have a good cry because some ass wipe that want's all of us dead got wet. You need a tissue princess?

Sweet. Internet tough-guyism.

Just pointing out that the training at Ranger School is designed to suck, but it's not the same as torture.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

 

[Wicked Jester]

First, in my opinion a practice that produces intense pain, injury, maiming, and/or causes lasting ill effects to a person's body and/or mind is torture.

It should not be thrown in with practices and techniques that induce dread, fear, humiliation, or tolerable discomfort that might be deemed cruel and unusual punishment, but does not cause intense pain, injury, lasting detriment to health, etc.

I think decent people do not willingly subject people to either torture or other unacceptable treatment. They don' enjoy seeing it in the movies or on TV. It dehumanizes us and makes us no better than the most cruel of animals.

So if somebody asks me, a conservative, whether I condone torture, I can unequivocably say no, I do not. And I will personally do whatever I can to ensure that is the policy of our country.

However. . . .

If somebody has information that could prevent somebody committing an imminent 9/11 or otherwise kill or maim hundreds or thousands of innocent people, most especially if it was people I can honestly say I won't care what they do to him to get the information to save those people.

What waterboarding is, is a very uncomfortable temporary mind fuck, fully meant to soften a person. The info doesn't come from the actual act, it comes from the fact that unless you start squealing like a stuck pig, there could be more mind fucks in your near future.

Now, I experienced actual physical torture and pain, and the ultimate mind fuck of sleep deprived hallucinations during RANGER school. And that was achieved through normal training methods........Waterboarding in S.E.R.E. came nowhere near the pain and mind fuck that basic RANGER training did.......Nor, did waterboarding come anywhere near the mind fuck and sheer terror of being in numerous combat firefights and sketchy situations where the enemy is doing everything they can to turn you into a corpse.

Sleep and food deprivation at Ranger School is done to approximate combat stress. That's a far cry from torture, and you know it.

And we were waterboarded at SERE........That was a far cry from torture.....Definitely uncomfortable and scary, but not torture......And you know it.

Now, you want to talk about Chinese, Japanese, and Vietnamese versions of waterboarding, that's fucking torture to the core.

 

[Robert]

You want muslims tortured and killed because they're muslim, that's a lot worse than doing that stuff with puppies and rabbits.

I'm not stomping off, be here posting til 430 or so. I'm just stating something you likely already know, you're an immoral monster.

I pray your kids see passed it all, mostly for their sake and the sake of the community they choose to live in.

Ya Numbnuts I want Muslim's killed and I get to eat the babies their bones are ground up and used as fertilizer. Hell don't cha know Id killdem all arrrrgggg.

You're a simpering asshat that doesn't have a clue as to what the hell you're talking about.

When did you stop beating your wife or did you transfer that to your daughter?......Really?

I'm an atheist, all religions (including yours and theirs) are equally stupid to me. I have morals, unnecessary violence is something I'm against, unlike yourself.

You want all muslims killed and/or tortured, you can give cute little stories, but that fact remains and it's that fact that makes you immoral.

You bastard Don't forget the puppies! I take great pride in that!

You have no morals kid morals mean standing up for what you believe in even if its not the Popular thing to do. People like you are the ones that depend on everyone else to make it right when the shit hit's the fan so you don't need to soil your hands or god forbid break a sweat.

 

[geauxtohell]

And we were waterboarded at SERE........That was a far cry from torture.....Definitely uncomfortable and scary, but not torture......And you know it.

Now, you want to talk about Chinese, Japanese, and Vietnamese versions of waterboarding, that's fucking torture to the core.

Again, I never went to SERE school, so I have no personal perspective on it.

You don't find it ironic that SERE school is designed to help American servicemen and women Survive, Evade, RESIST, and Escape a ruthless mock enemy that implements the same tactics to torture U.S. soldiers that we want to argue is not actually torture.

I would also argue that most anything in TRADOC is going to be a watered down (pun intended) version of the real thing. In the back of your mind, you know that every training event has a limitation. At Ranger School they eventually have to let you eat, sleep, and get some warmth. You just have to be tough enough to stick it out until then. I would imagine at SERE school, somewhere in the back of your mind you took some comfort in knowing that this was just training.

That's a far cry from an actual real time event. Half of torture is the mind fuck.