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Someone repeating the same discredited talking points doesn't make the argument weak. It makes you a proponent of Goebbels "big lie" theory though.
Bigreb supports Nazi propaganda techniques
So did Hitler!
OMFG! Nazi Socialist!!!
bigreb is a Nazi Socialist? Oh no!
HUMM.... Strange thing that he would join a new organization called the Germans workers party and within a year take control of that organization and rename it The National Socialist Germans Workers Party.
Is that anything like Democratic People's Republic of Korea?
I always knew Kim Jong was a Democrat.
By 1919 Krupp was already giving financial aid to one of the reactionary political groups which sowed the seed of the present Nazi ideology. Hugo Stinnes was an early contributor to the Nazi Party (National Socialistische Deutsche Arbeiter Partei). By 1924 other prominent industrialists and financiers, among them Fritz Thyssen, Albert Voegler, Adolph [sic] Kirdorf, and Kurt von Schroder, were secretly giving substantial sums to the Nazis. In 1931 members of the coalowners' association which Kirdorf headed pledged themselves to pay 50 pfennigs for each ton of' coal sold, the money to go to the organization which Hitler was building.3
Hitler's 1924 Munich trial yielded evidence that the Nazi Party received $20,000 from Nuremburg industrialists. The most interesting name from this period is that of Emil Kirdorf, who had earlier acted as conduit for financing German involvement in the Bolshevik Revolution.4 Kirdorfs role in financing Hitler was, in his own words:
In 1923 I came into contact for the first time with the National-Socialist movement .... I first heard the Fuehrer in the Essen Exhibition Hall. His clear exposition completely convinced and overwhelmed me. In 1927 I first met the Fuehrer personally. I travelled to Munich and there had a conversation with the Fuehrer in the Bruckmann home. During four and a half hours Adolf Hitler explained to me his programme in de tail. I then begged the Fuehrer to put together the lecture he had given me in the form of a pamphlet. I then distributed this pamphlet in my name in business and manufacturing circles.
Since then I have placed myself completely at the disposition of his movement, Shortly after our Munich conversation, and as a result of the pamphlet which the Fuehrer composed and I distributed, a number of meetings took place between the Fuehrer and leading personalities in the field of indus. try. For the last time before the taking over of power, the leaders of industry met in my house together with Adolf Hitler, Rudolf Hess, Hermann Goering and other leading personalities of the party.5
The critical point is that the German industrialists financing Hitler were predominantly directors of cartels with American associations, ownership, participation, or some form of subsidiary connection. The Hitler backers were not, by and large, firms of purely German origin, or representative of German family business. Except for Thyssen and Kirdoff, in most cases they were the German multi-national firms i.e., I.G. Farben, A.E.G., DAPAG, etc. These multi-nationals had been built up by American loans in the 1920s, and in the early 1930s had American directors and heavy American financial participation.
One flow of foreign political funds not considered here is that reported from the European-based Royal Dutch Shell, Standard Oil's great competitor in the 20s and 30s, and the giant brainchild of Anglo-Dutch businessman Sir Henri Deterding. It has been widely asserted that Henri Deterding personally financed Hitler. This argument is made, for instance, by biographer Glyn Roberts in The Most Powerful Man in the World. Roberts notes that Deterding was impressed with Hitler as early as 1921:
...and the Dutch press reported that, through the agent Georg Bell, he [Deterding] had placed at Hitler's disposal, while the party was "still in long clothes," no less than four million guilders.7
TABLE 7-1: FINANCIAL LINKS BETWEEN U.S. INDUSTRIALISTS AND ADOLF HITLERDate American Bankers
and Industrialists U.S. Affiliated Firm German Source Intermediary for
Funds/Agent 1923Henry FORDFORD MOTOR
COMPANY1931E.R. HARRIMANUNION BANKING
CORPFritz
THYSSEN250,000 RM Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart N.V. (Subsidiary of August Thyssen Bank)1932-3Flick
(a director
of AEG)Friedrich
FLICK150,000 RM Direct to NSDAPFebruary-
March 1933NONEEmil
KIRDORF600,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand" a/c at Delbrück Schickler BankFebruary-
March 1933Edsel B. FORD
C.E. MITCHELL
Walter TEAGLE
Paul M. WARBURGAMERICAN
I.G.I.G. FARBEN400,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"February-
March 1933NONEReichsverband der Automobilindustrie100,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"February-
March 1933Gerard SWOPE
Owen D. YOUNG
C.H. MINOR
E. Arthur BALDWININTERNATIONAL
GENERAL
ELECTRIC25 percentA.E.G.60,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"NONEDEMAG50,000 RM February-
March 1933Owen D. YOUNGINTERNATIONAL GENERAL ELECTRIC162/3 percentOSRAM
G.m.b.H.40,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"February-
March 1933Sosthenes BEHN I.T.T.Telefunken35,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"February-
March 1933NONEKarl
Herrman300,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"Februa ry-
March 1933NONEA. Steinke
(Director of
BYBUAG)200,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"February-
March 1933NONEKarl Lange
(Machine
industry)50,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"February-
March 1933NONEF. Springorum
(Hoesch A.G.)36,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"February-
March 1933Edsel B. FORDFord Motor Co.Carl BOSCH
(I.G. Farben & Ford Motor A.G.)1932-1944Walter TEAGLE
J.A. MOFFETT
W.S. FARISH
Standard Oil
of N.J.94 percentEmil HELFFRICH
(German-American
Petroleum Co)Heinrich Himmler S.S. via Keppler's Circle1932-1944Sosthenes BEHN I.T.T.Kurt yon SCHRÖDER
Mix & Genest
LorenzHeinrich Himmler S.S. via Keppler's Circle
One cannot help but think it odd that SO MANY CAPITALISTS contributed to the socialist NAZIs.
Doubt that?
Lookie here...
By 1919 Krupp was already giving financial aid to one of the reactionary political groups which sowed the seed of the present Nazi ideology. Hugo Stinnes was an early contributor to the Nazi Party (National Socialistische Deutsche Arbeiter Partei). By 1924 other prominent industrialists and financiers, among them Fritz Thyssen, Albert Voegler, Adolph [sic] Kirdorf, and Kurt von Schroder, were secretly giving substantial sums to the Nazis. In 1931 members of the coalowners' association which Kirdorf headed pledged themselves to pay 50 pfennigs for each ton of' coal sold, the money to go to the organization which Hitler was building.3
Hitler's 1924 Munich trial yielded evidence that the Nazi Party received $20,000 from Nuremburg industrialists. The most interesting name from this period is that of Emil Kirdorf, who had earlier acted as conduit for financing German involvement in the Bolshevik Revolution.4 Kirdorfs role in financing Hitler was, in his own words:
In 1923 I came into contact for the first time with the National-Socialist movement .... I first heard the Fuehrer in the Essen Exhibition Hall. His clear exposition completely convinced and overwhelmed me. In 1927 I first met the Fuehrer personally. I travelled to Munich and there had a conversation with the Fuehrer in the Bruckmann home. During four and a half hours Adolf Hitler explained to me his programme in de tail. I then begged the Fuehrer to put together the lecture he had given me in the form of a pamphlet. I then distributed this pamphlet in my name in business and manufacturing circles.
Since then I have placed myself completely at the disposition of his movement, Shortly after our Munich conversation, and as a result of the pamphlet which the Fuehrer composed and I distributed, a number of meetings took place between the Fuehrer and leading personalities in the field of indus. try. For the last time before the taking over of power, the leaders of industry met in my house together with Adolf Hitler, Rudolf Hess, Hermann Goering and other leading personalities of the party.5
The critical point is that the German industrialists financing Hitler were predominantly directors of cartels with American associations, ownership, participation, or some form of subsidiary connection. The Hitler backers were not, by and large, firms of purely German origin, or representative of German family business. Except for Thyssen and Kirdoff, in most cases they were the German multi-national firms i.e., I.G. Farben, A.E.G., DAPAG, etc. These multi-nationals had been built up by American loans in the 1920s, and in the early 1930s had American directors and heavy American financial participation.
One flow of foreign political funds not considered here is that reported from the European-based Royal Dutch Shell, Standard Oil's great competitor in the 20s and 30s, and the giant brainchild of Anglo-Dutch businessman Sir Henri Deterding. It has been widely asserted that Henri Deterding personally financed Hitler. This argument is made, for instance, by biographer Glyn Roberts in The Most Powerful Man in the World. Roberts notes that Deterding was impressed with Hitler as early as 1921:
...and the Dutch press reported that, through the agent Georg Bell, he [Deterding] had placed at Hitler's disposal, while the party was "still in long clothes," no less than four million guilders.7
TABLE 7-1: FINANCIAL LINKS BETWEEN U.S. INDUSTRIALISTS AND ADOLF HITLERDate American Bankers
and Industrialists U.S. Affiliated Firm German Source Intermediary for
Funds/Agent 1923Henry FORDFORD MOTOR
COMPANY1931E.R. HARRIMANUNION BANKING
CORPFritz
THYSSEN250,000 RM Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart N.V. (Subsidiary of August Thyssen Bank)1932-3Flick
(a director
of AEG)Friedrich
FLICK150,000 RM Direct to NSDAPFebruary-
March 1933NONEEmil
KIRDORF600,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand" a/c at Delbrück Schickler BankFebruary-
March 1933Edsel B. FORD
C.E. MITCHELL
Walter TEAGLE
Paul M. WARBURGAMERICAN
I.G.I.G. FARBEN400,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"February-
March 1933NONEReichsverband der Automobilindustrie100,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"February-
March 1933Gerard SWOPE
Owen D. YOUNG
C.H. MINOR
E. Arthur BALDWININTERNATIONAL
GENERAL
ELECTRIC25 percentA.E.G.60,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"NONEDEMAG50,000 RM February-
March 1933Owen D. YOUNGINTERNATIONAL GENERAL ELECTRIC162/3 percentOSRAM
G.m.b.H.40,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"February-
March 1933Sosthenes BEHN I.T.T.Telefunken35,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"February-
March 1933NONEKarl
Herrman300,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"Februa ry-
March 1933NONEA. Steinke
(Director of
BYBUAG)200,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"February-
March 1933NONEKarl Lange
(Machine
industry)50,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"February-
March 1933NONEF. Springorum
(Hoesch A.G.)36,000 RM "Nationale Treuhand"February-
March 1933Edsel B. FORDFord Motor Co.Carl BOSCH
(I.G. Farben & Ford Motor A.G.)1932-1944Walter TEAGLE
J.A. MOFFETT
W.S. FARISH
Standard Oil
of N.J.94 percentEmil HELFFRICH
(German-American
Petroleum Co)Heinrich Himmler S.S. via Keppler's Circle1932-1944Sosthenes BEHN I.T.T.Kurt yon SCHRÖDER
Mix & Genest
LorenzHeinrich Himmler S.S. via Keppler's Circle
source
Yeah know, if Hitler was a SOCIALIST, he must have been one hell of a salesman for the cause.
Because he got the support of one hell of a lot of CAPITALISTS who financed his SOCIALIST revolution.
I find that rather odd, don't you?
You altered a quofuck youte. Period.
I wasn't hiding anything yoiu asked what I meant, and I posted what I meant don't like it? pound sand
Fuck you I altering the post right nowYou altered a fuck youquote. Period.
Going to gun show I will be back.
Don't shoot yourself in the foot anymore than you've done here
shit, he is in vicinity of guns?
not surprised, just concerned.
i am thinking as always for the children.
Hitler is one of the worst men who has ever lived. However, he was not a socialist like you, bigrebnc.
You don't have the facts, bigrebnc, that's the point. Your facts and you yourself blew up your OP.
This has been the most epic fail for an OP in at least a year on the Board.
Yes, Hitler was a fascist. No, Hitler was not a socialist. Yes, you have epic massive fail here.
That's exactly right, son. The affirmative proof was on you. Every piece of evidence you present was easily negated, your analysis argumentation was easily negated, and then solid proof to the contrary was found in your own documentation, in which we find out that Big Business loved Hitler and that Hitler did not socialize industry.
You receive an F and a solid counseling for being obstructionist in even a junior college history course.
Epic fail on your part.
You aren't the judge. The evidence judges your claim, which falls short. Move along. Nothing to see here.
