A Modest Proposal for a Culture of Civility

[Dim Bulb]

The country has divided into warring enemy camps. There is no civility toward the enemy in foxholes.

That's because there is no middle ground any longer. The right is pushing to go more right and the left is pushing to go more left.

Where is the middle-ground between constitutionalism and Communism?

Yes, when people start telling you that traffic lights are evidence of the nanny state and creeping socialism, or that an executive order is evidence of President Trump's latent fascism, you really have to wonder where reason went.

 

[Anathema]

Thanks for your response. So if a citizen questions their government, that's okay, but a child que.

Children are not yet properly taught Right and Wrong. They don't understand the difference. They must be taught that difference. If they fail to grasp it then they should be expelled, as the Spartans expelled improperly formed infants.

 

[Anathema]

So it's okay to fight except where you believe it's not okay to fight. I believe it's okay to disagree with anyone.

You seem to be focused on the Who of the disagreement while I'm focused on the What. It's fine to disagree with anyone, so long as you are educated enough to have the side of Right behind you. It is never acceptable to defend Wrong (as the majority of individual voters did in November). Defense of Wrong should be a Capital Offense.

 

[Unkotare]

I'm a conservative and I yearn for the time when people treated each other with respect, even when they had major disagreements over policy.

The way I think of it, we all are creating the culture of the US every day, in every interaction, in every post, in every discussion. It isn't someone "other" than us, it is us. How we relate to each other creates a patchwork or mosaic of our total culture. Its starts on this micro, one on one level, and it is repeated everywhere in the country until we create an overall culture of dialogue. Right now it isn't terribly pretty.

So I ask myself before I engage in conversation, "What kind of a country do I want to live in?" Do I want to live in a country in which it's okay to question my opponents sanity and/or "Real American" status? Do I want to live in a country where some of the vitriol that people spout at each other creates the culture?

No, I choose civility. If we all make the same choice in how we talk to each other, we can disagree, as Ronald Reagan said, without being disagreeable.

It starts with every small discussion, every post, every interaction. It's up to us, not anyone else. And it isn't "their" fault, whoever "they" might be to you. "They" are Americans too.

Ah yes, that mystical time when herds of unicorns rode rainbows across golden plains!

 

[Ozone]

Rewind the whole Internet all the way back to it's ground zero point of origin where it all started, like to follow the example of the big bang theory... It's hypothetical, okay. Now, over the whole span of time then to now, how did it all go wrong? At some point in that mess, a primordial form of SJW emerged, the simple, single-celled atheist troll, sworn to change the world by annoying Christians. Or maybe it was Scientologists. Who knows, but somehow that evolved. And then again, at some point there was GamerGate, the biggest scandal in the world that no one ever heard of until six months after it happened. And so it goes.

The liberals do this, it's always the liberals, the censorship. Even when it's the fundamentalist Christians, you'd call them RWNJ, you think they're conservatives. Nope. They are quite liberal about it when it's their turn to make the blasphemous illegal. Hate speech. You think it's a noun adjective, but it's a verb every time, an instruction to you to hate to speak. Don't say the N-word, there are imaginary N-words floating around that might get angry and attack you. But there are many words spelled with letter N, no?

Because the Democratic party of the United States is rulership of sorts, but it's the government of, by, and for the propagandist, or is it the Republicans doing it that way this time? Fake news. Fake news because fake money. Fake money because fake personhood. Fake personhood because liars. 100% of the time it's liars. Or the Jews if you need a scapegoat. False flag attack is because the news media reports it, makes it a false flag, factoring shock into the equation of political agenda narratives. A riot breaks out, even with the smashings and the burnings and all the bells and whistles and trappings by which anything of a riot is readily identified, self-evident. It's called a peaceful protest.

Or it's like, if you have a cat, and you make a fist and you go right for it's skull, but just stop short of it. The cat will lean into it because it's a psychopath that occasionally drops the severed heads of rodents on your doorstep as a sign of affection.

 

[Dim Bulb]

Rewind the whole Internet all the way back to it's ground zero point of origin where it all started, like to follow the example of the big bang theory... It's hypothetical, okay. Now, over the whole span of time then to now, how did it all go wrong? At some point in that mess, a primordial form of SJW emerged, the simple, single-celled atheist troll, sworn to change the world by annoying Christians. Or maybe it was Scientologists. Who knows, but somehow that evolved. And then again, at some point there was GamerGate, the biggest scandal in the world that no one ever heard of until six months after it happened. And so it goes.

The liberals do this, it's always the liberals, the censorship. Even when it's the fundamentalist Christians, you'd call them RWNJ, you think they're conservatives. Nope. They are quite liberal about it when it's their turn to make the blasphemous illegal. Hate speech. You think it's a noun adjective, but it's a verb every time, an instruction to you to hate to speak. Don't say the N-word, there are imaginary N-words floating around that might get angry and attack you. But there are many words spelled with letter N, no?

Because the Democratic party of the United States is rulership of sorts, but it's the government of, by, and for the propagandist, or is it the Republicans doing it that way this time? Fake news. Fake news because fake money. Fake money because fake personhood. Fake personhood because liars. 100% of the time it's liars. Or the Jews if you need a scapegoat. False flag attack is because the news media reports it, makes it a false flag, factoring shock into the equation of political agenda narratives. A riot breaks out, even with the smashings and the burnings and all the bells and whistles and trappings by which anything of a riot is readily identified, self-evident. It's called a peaceful protest.

Or it's like, if you have a cat, and you make a fist and you go right for it's skull, but just stop short of it. The cat will lean into it because it's a psychopath that occasionally drops the severed heads of rodents on your doorstep as a sign of affection.

Thanks for your response. I don't quite understand it, though. I think I believe that everyone is contributing to the incivility, not just one "side." My point is that we are all Americans and we can take back the culture of America without leadership. We can do it ourselves, one post, one conversation, one email at a time.

 

[whitehall]

Funny how nobody talked about "civility" during the Obama administration. Are advocates of "civility" even aware that every high profile conservative speaker has been the victim of assault on a college campus and it's been going on since the Reagan administration?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Rewind the whole Internet all the way back to it's ground zero point of origin where it all started, like to follow the example of the big bang theory... It's hypothetical, okay. Now, over the whole span of time then to now, how did it all go wrong? At some point in that mess, a primordial form of SJW emerged, the simple, single-celled atheist troll, sworn to change the world by annoying Christians. Or maybe it was Scientologists. Who knows, but somehow that evolved. And then again, at some point there was GamerGate, the biggest scandal in the world that no one ever heard of until six months after it happened. And so it goes.

The liberals do this, it's always the liberals, the censorship. Even when it's the fundamentalist Christians, you'd call them RWNJ, you think they're conservatives. Nope. They are quite liberal about it when it's their turn to make the blasphemous illegal. Hate speech. You think it's a noun adjective, but it's a verb every time, an instruction to you to hate to speak. Don't say the N-word, there are imaginary N-words floating around that might get angry and attack you. But there are many words spelled with letter N, no?

Because the Democratic party of the United States is rulership of sorts, but it's the government of, by, and for the propagandist, or is it the Republicans doing it that way this time? Fake news. Fake news because fake money. Fake money because fake personhood. Fake personhood because liars. 100% of the time it's liars. Or the Jews if you need a scapegoat. False flag attack is because the news media reports it, makes it a false flag, factoring shock into the equation of political agenda narratives. A riot breaks out, even with the smashings and the burnings and all the bells and whistles and trappings by which anything of a riot is readily identified, self-evident. It's called a peaceful protest.

Or it's like, if you have a cat, and you make a fist and you go right for it's skull, but just stop short of it. The cat will lean into it because it's a psychopath that occasionally drops the severed heads of rodents on your doorstep as a sign of affection.

Thanks for your response. I don't quite understand it, though. I think I believe that everyone is contributing to the incivility, not just one "side." My point is that we are all Americans and we can take back the culture of America without leadership. We can do it ourselves, one post, one conversation, one email at a time.

Just one question: how is the right contributing to incivility?

 

[2aguy]

I'm a conservative and I yearn for the time when people treated each other with respect, even when they had major disagreements over policy.

The way I think of it, we all are creating the culture of the US every day, in every interaction, in every post, in every discussion. It isn't someone "other" than us, it is us. How we relate to each other creates a patchwork or mosaic of our total culture. Its starts on this micro, one on one level, and it is repeated everywhere in the country until we create an overall culture of dialogue. Right now it isn't terribly pretty.

So I ask myself before I engage in conversation, "What kind of a country do I want to live in?" Do I want to live in a country in which it's okay to question my opponents sanity and/or "Real American" status? Do I want to live in a country where some of the vitriol that people spout at each other creates the culture?

No, I choose civility. If we all make the same choice in how we talk to each other, we can disagree, as Ronald Reagan said, without being disagreeable.

It starts with every small discussion, every post, every interaction. It's up to us, not anyone else. And it isn't "their" fault, whoever "they" might be to you. "They" are Americans too.

Hmmmm...I have yet to see conservatives/libertarians/tea party members hitting peaceful protestors with their fists, metal poles and spraying mace in the face of a woman who has done nothing except wear a hat..........once the democrats, the party of violence and hate renounces their violence and hate, our country will be more civil and we can debate the issues without violence and hate....till he democrats change their tactics, we will continue to see fires, vandalism and violence perpetrated against peaceful conservatives/libertarians and Tea Party members...

 

[2aguy]

Everybody is for, in theory:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

But, nobody follows it, certainly not anyone on a political message board safely behind an anonymous handle.

The fact is that this country is so divided that something will have to change for it to survive in tact.

There are two times in America where the country was so divided:

1) During the John Adams Administration and the fight between him and Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson ran against him, in part, because his Party in New England and New York (from whence the disagreements mostly emanate today) had passed the Sedition Act and were putting citizens in Jail for criticizing the Adams Government (Political Correctness has been around a long time--in the minds of those who think they are smarter than the rest of the Country).

Jefferson won; pardoned all the people who had been jailed for exercising their right to Freedom of Speech; then governed so fairly and justly that there dawned in America what has been called "The Era of Good Feelings".

2) The 1850's leading up to the Civil War.

How will it go this time?

No Civil War, but it doesn't look hopeful.

Its basically the Heartland against the Large Cities run by Democrats for half a Century.

Two Cultures that could hardly be more different.

So, I wish you well with the attempt at Civility, I hope you will succeed...but I am harassed by doubts..

_______________________________________

Thanks for your response. My view is if we can accomplish civility on an anonymous bulletin board like this for even a brief time, think of what else we could do in this culture. These forums are the hardest places to start, which is why we should start here, imho.

I have always started conversations out civilly, especially in the past....it doesn't take long for the left wing to attack me on a personal level regardless of the issue....I, like our current President Trump, am a counter puncher...I will extend civility to anyone I post with till the time they turn into fucking assholes....then I will respond in kind.....

I have watched for decades as republicans responded to the worst slanders against them with polite overtures and calls for civility....to only be attacked in even stronger terms and with more vile and slander against them...

no more.......the left has decided that disagreeing with a conservative is not enough....they believe that conservative/libertarians/tea party members are evil, and that they hate people...and are therefore not entitled to being treated civilly.......and until they change this attitude......they deserve what they get....

 

[boedicca]

No, I choose civility. If we all make the same choice in how we talk to each other, we can disagree, as Ronald Reagan said, without being disagreeable..

Then you, like Mr Reagan are not truly Conservative nor do you really believe in anything, as you are not willing to FIGHT for it. If you won't argue for it, you sure as Hell won't kill for it, and that's the determining factor in whether you truly believe in something or not.

Untrue. Being Civil means not taking offense at everything and not turning everything into a battle. If someone has a different political viewpoint, that doesn't justify letting a door slam in his face, or cutting him off at an intersection.

I'd like to see us return to cultural norm of politeness, and one in which the Loyal Opposition can be seen and heard without accusations. That, of course, entails the Loyal Opposition not treating the winners as illegitimate.

 

[Anathema]

Civility cannot exist when people have heartfelt philosophical differences with each other. It's just that simple.

 

[boedicca]

I'm a conservative and I yearn for the time when people treated each other with respect, even when they had major disagreements over policy.

The way I think of it, we all are creating the culture of the US every day, in every interaction, in every post, in every discussion. It isn't someone "other" than us, it is us. How we relate to each other creates a patchwork or mosaic of our total culture. Its starts on this micro, one on one level, and it is repeated everywhere in the country until we create an overall culture of dialogue. Right now it isn't terribly pretty.

So I ask myself before I engage in conversation, "What kind of a country do I want to live in?" Do I want to live in a country in which it's okay to question my opponents sanity and/or "Real American" status? Do I want to live in a country where some of the vitriol that people spout at each other creates the culture?

No, I choose civility. If we all make the same choice in how we talk to each other, we can disagree, as Ronald Reagan said, without being disagreeable.

It starts with every small discussion, every post, every interaction. It's up to us, not anyone else. And it isn't "their" fault, whoever "they" might be to you. "They" are Americans too.

Hmmmm...I have yet to see conservatives/libertarians/tea party members hitting peaceful protestors with their fists, metal poles and spraying mace in the face of a woman who has done nothing except wear a hat..........once the democrats, the party of violence and hate renounces their violence and hate, our country will be more civil and we can debate the issues without violence and hate....till he democrats change their tactics, we will continue to see fires, vandalism and violence perpetrated against peaceful conservatives/libertarians and Tea Party members...

One truly pathetic aspect of this is that the lefties engaged in violence don't grok that they are useful idiot tools of the Big Government-Corporatist Global Establishment they claim to be against.

 

[boedicca]

Civility cannot exist when people have heartfelt philosophical differences with each other. It's just that simple.

That is absolute nonsense.

 

[yiostheoy]

I'm a conservative and I yearn for the time when people treated each other with respect, even when they had major disagreements over policy.

The way I think of it, we all are creating the culture of the US every day, in every interaction, in every post, in every discussion. It isn't someone "other" than us, it is us. How we relate to each other creates a patchwork or mosaic of our total culture. Its starts on this micro, one on one level, and it is repeated everywhere in the country until we create an overall culture of dialogue. Right now it isn't terribly pretty.

So I ask myself before I engage in conversation, "What kind of a country do I want to live in?" Do I want to live in a country in which it's okay to question my opponents sanity and/or "Real American" status? Do I want to live in a country where some of the vitriol that people spout at each other creates the culture?

No, I choose civility. If we all make the same choice in how we talk to each other, we can disagree, as Ronald Reagan said, without being disagreeable.

It starts with every small discussion, every post, every interaction. It's up to us, not anyone else. And it isn't "their" fault, whoever "they" might be to you. "They" are Americans too.

You would be much better off with a CFP.

 

[OldLady]

I'm a conservative and I yearn for the time when people treated each other with respect, even when they had major disagreements over policy.

The way I think of it, we all are creating the culture of the US every day, in every interaction, in every post, in every discussion. It isn't someone "other" than us, it is us. How we relate to each other creates a patchwork or mosaic of our total culture. Its starts on this micro, one on one level, and it is repeated everywhere in the country until we create an overall culture of dialogue. Right now it isn't terribly pretty.

So I ask myself before I engage in conversation, "What kind of a country do I want to live in?" Do I want to live in a country in which it's okay to question my opponents sanity and/or "Real American" status? Do I want to live in a country where some of the vitriol that people spout at each other creates the culture?

No, I choose civility. If we all make the same choice in how we talk to each other, we can disagree, as Ronald Reagan said, without being disagreeable.

It starts with every small discussion, every post, every interaction. It's up to us, not anyone else. And it isn't "their" fault, whoever "they" might be to you. "They" are Americans too.

Bravo.

Looking at this problem from a cultural perspective, my guess is that it won't happen unless and until (1) "leaders" in our society - from all walks of life, from politics to religion to sports to pop culture - bravely lead the way, and throw down the gauntlet and challenge their supporters to behave more civilly, and (2) the more hateful and divisive voices on both ends of the spectrum are culturally marginalized as a result.

I may be naive here, but I think that could happen. It would just take a few brave souls to start the momentum. And the reason I think it will take "leaders", specifically, is because our culture is so quick to idolize and follow. We make "celebrities" out of nearly anyone, and their "endorsement" has tangible value.
.

I agree with OP that it needs to start on the micro level. Easier said then done when not everyone will play by those rules, but I guess we need to try harder.

 

[Mac1958]

I'm a conservative and I yearn for the time when people treated each other with respect, even when they had major disagreements over policy.

The way I think of it, we all are creating the culture of the US every day, in every interaction, in every post, in every discussion. It isn't someone "other" than us, it is us. How we relate to each other creates a patchwork or mosaic of our total culture. Its starts on this micro, one on one level, and it is repeated everywhere in the country until we create an overall culture of dialogue. Right now it isn't terribly pretty.

So I ask myself before I engage in conversation, "What kind of a country do I want to live in?" Do I want to live in a country in which it's okay to question my opponents sanity and/or "Real American" status? Do I want to live in a country where some of the vitriol that people spout at each other creates the culture?

No, I choose civility. If we all make the same choice in how we talk to each other, we can disagree, as Ronald Reagan said, without being disagreeable.

It starts with every small discussion, every post, every interaction. It's up to us, not anyone else. And it isn't "their" fault, whoever "they" might be to you. "They" are Americans too.

Bravo.

Looking at this problem from a cultural perspective, my guess is that it won't happen unless and until (1) "leaders" in our society - from all walks of life, from politics to religion to sports to pop culture - bravely lead the way, and throw down the gauntlet and challenge their supporters to behave more civilly, and (2) the more hateful and divisive voices on both ends of the spectrum are culturally marginalized as a result.

I may be naive here, but I think that could happen. It would just take a few brave souls to start the momentum. And the reason I think it will take "leaders", specifically, is because our culture is so quick to idolize and follow. We make "celebrities" out of nearly anyone, and their "endorsement" has tangible value.
.

I agree with OP that it needs to start on the micro level. Easier said then done when not everyone will play by those rules, but I guess we need to try harder.

Well, I'll take either/or.

Before it gets much uglier.
.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

My attitude is that I am a member of no group. I also believe that one person's right to swing their fist ends at another person's nose.

and most importantly -- tolerating evil is enabling it. People should tolerate that which causes no harm, and oppose that which does.

I know that sounds simplistic, but the root of all the incivility lies in people's excessive attachment to a group that leads to their tolerance of evil and double standards as to whose fist can hit whose nose.

 

[boedicca]

I'm a conservative and I yearn for the time when people treated each other with respect, even when they had major disagreements over policy.

The way I think of it, we all are creating the culture of the US every day, in every interaction, in every post, in every discussion. It isn't someone "other" than us, it is us. How we relate to each other creates a patchwork or mosaic of our total culture. Its starts on this micro, one on one level, and it is repeated everywhere in the country until we create an overall culture of dialogue. Right now it isn't terribly pretty.

So I ask myself before I engage in conversation, "What kind of a country do I want to live in?" Do I want to live in a country in which it's okay to question my opponents sanity and/or "Real American" status? Do I want to live in a country where some of the vitriol that people spout at each other creates the culture?

No, I choose civility. If we all make the same choice in how we talk to each other, we can disagree, as Ronald Reagan said, without being disagreeable.

It starts with every small discussion, every post, every interaction. It's up to us, not anyone else. And it isn't "their" fault, whoever "they" might be to you. "They" are Americans too.

Bravo.

Looking at this problem from a cultural perspective, my guess is that it won't happen unless and until (1) "leaders" in our society - from all walks of life, from politics to religion to sports to pop culture - bravely lead the way, and throw down the gauntlet and challenge their supporters to behave more civilly, and (2) the more hateful and divisive voices on both ends of the spectrum are culturally marginalized as a result.

I may be naive here, but I think that could happen. It would just take a few brave souls to start the momentum. And the reason I think it will take "leaders", specifically, is because our culture is so quick to idolize and follow. We make "celebrities" out of nearly anyone, and their "endorsement" has tangible value.
.

I agree with OP that it needs to start on the micro level. Easier said then done when not everyone will play by those rules, but I guess we need to try harder.

It starts with small things. Letting someone pull ahead of you when you see his turn signal. Letting someone get ahead of you in line at the supermarket when you both approach at the same time. Holding the door or elevator open for someone else. Smiling. Looking people in the eye.

Not everything is a political test of wills. IRL, if one treats others as dignified human beings instead of political punching bags, it makes a world of difference.

 

[OldLady]

I'm a conservative and I yearn for the time when people treated each other with respect, even when they had major disagreements over policy.

The way I think of it, we all are creating the culture of the US every day, in every interaction, in every post, in every discussion. It isn't someone "other" than us, it is us. How we relate to each other creates a patchwork or mosaic of our total culture. Its starts on this micro, one on one level, and it is repeated everywhere in the country until we create an overall culture of dialogue. Right now it isn't terribly pretty.

So I ask myself before I engage in conversation, "What kind of a country do I want to live in?" Do I want to live in a country in which it's okay to question my opponents sanity and/or "Real American" status? Do I want to live in a country where some of the vitriol that people spout at each other creates the culture?

No, I choose civility. If we all make the same choice in how we talk to each other, we can disagree, as Ronald Reagan said, without being disagreeable.

It starts with every small discussion, every post, every interaction. It's up to us, not anyone else. And it isn't "their" fault, whoever "they" might be to you. "They" are Americans too.

Bravo.

Looking at this problem from a cultural perspective, my guess is that it won't happen unless and until (1) "leaders" in our society - from all walks of life, from politics to religion to sports to pop culture - bravely lead the way, and throw down the gauntlet and challenge their supporters to behave more civilly, and (2) the more hateful and divisive voices on both ends of the spectrum are culturally marginalized as a result.

I may be naive here, but I think that could happen. It would just take a few brave souls to start the momentum. And the reason I think it will take "leaders", specifically, is because our culture is so quick to idolize and follow. We make "celebrities" out of nearly anyone, and their "endorsement" has tangible value.
.

I agree with OP that it needs to start on the micro level. Easier said then done when not everyone will play by those rules, but I guess we need to try harder.

It starts with small things. Letting someone pull ahead of you when you see his turn signal. Letting someone get ahead of you in line at the supermarket when you both approach at the same time. Holding the door or elevator open for someone else. Smiling. Looking people in the eye.

Not everything is a political test of wills. IRL, if one treats others as dignified human beings instead of political punching bags, it makes a world of difference.

IRL, I've always done the small things, and more. It is here that I was thinking of, the only place where I am treated like a political punching bag. Being human, that eventually pisses me off and I sometimes lose my temper. We are talking about civility regardless of our political beliefs. In my world, the only place where that spills over into incivility is here, on this board. I hear it is the same all over social media, although I don't go anywhere else but here. I might be off the mark here, but I believe the rudeness on social media is spilling over into our real interactions, more than the other way around.